Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[vms]

I don't see many similarities in this case and the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  There are some, sure, but the PLE are at least willing to work with the British Forenxic unit and others on this, unlike Aruba where they just decided no forensics would be better.

I would also like to know the specialty fields of the Drs. O'Brien and Oldfield.

Does anyone else find Kate's statement that she must have been in contact wtih at least six cadavers the week before vacation a bit high for a GP?

Yes, especially one who worked part-time. I have read she only worked one and a half days per week.

[MuffyBee]

Large amount of Madeleine's hair 'found in tyre well in boot of parents' hire car'
 11.09.07
snipped
 It has been claimed that "substantial" quantities of their daughter Madeleine's hair were found in the boot of the car they hired 25 days after she disappeared.

Portuguese detectives told the public prosecutor that the only explanation was that the hair came either from her body or from something used to wrap it.

http://tinyurl.com/yqhfgj

[MuffyBee]

From The Times
September 11, 2007
Fund could be blocked from paying legal costs
Frances Gibb, Legal Editor and David Brown
Kate and Gerry McCann face being stopped from paying their mounting legal bills out of the £1 million of public donations to the campaign to find their missing daughter.

As the couple engaged two of Britain’s top criminal lawyers and a leading Portuguese lawyer, the trustees of Madeleine’s Fund were still considering whether the fund could pay for their legal bills in Portugal and London after they were made official suspects in their daughter disappearance.

The trustees are understood to fear a possible backlash from some people who made donations as well as possible legal challenges to the use of the fund for such a controversial purpose.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2426647.ece

[BlueKYGirl]

Huumm. . .I'm thinking the Cuddle Cat as well.  Perhaps to examine the stuffing inside it?

The cuddle cat would be my guess too anna..I do remember reading someplace that it had been washed....but i guess whatever they might be looking for would still be there....and of course i am just guessing.

Why on earth would Cuddle Cat have been washed? (And, for that matter, why on earth would Kate's clothes that smelled of 6 corpses not have been washed? Especially before her vacation?) That's another thing that doesn't make sense to me--I'm not sure how pervasive corpse scent in clothing fibers is, but I wash everything before and after vacation. (And I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses).

[vms]

Huumm. . .I'm thinking the Cuddle Cat as well.  Perhaps to examine the stuffing inside it?

The cuddle cat would be my guess too anna..I do remember reading someplace that it had been washed....but i guess whatever they might be looking for would still be there....and of course i am just guessing.

Why on earth would Cuddle Cat have been washed? (And, for that matter, why on earth would Kate's clothes that smelled of 6 corpses not have been washed? Especially before her vacation?) That's another thing that doesn't make sense to me--I'm not sure how pervasive corpse scent in clothing fibers is, but I wash everything before and after vacation. (And I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses).

Ok, it is inappropriate but that made me laugh, I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses...

Also gave me the opportunity to tell you how cute your avatar is with the pink bow.

[BlueKYGirl]

Huumm. . .I'm thinking the Cuddle Cat as well.  Perhaps to examine the stuffing inside it?

The cuddle cat would be my guess too anna..I do remember reading someplace that it had been washed....but i guess whatever they might be looking for would still be there....and of course i am just guessing.

Why on earth would Cuddle Cat have been washed? (And, for that matter, why on earth would Kate's clothes that smelled of 6 corpses not have been washed? Especially before her vacation?) That's another thing that doesn't make sense to me--I'm not sure how pervasive corpse scent in clothing fibers is, but I wash everything before and after vacation. (And I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses).

Ok, it is inappropriate but that made me laugh, I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses...

Also gave me the opportunity to tell you how cute your avatar is with the pink bow.

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

[SuzieQ]

Latest from the BBC

 
McCann files to be given to judge
Portuguese prosecutors are to hand to a judge the files on missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann.
Madeleine's parents - who have been named as suspects - are now waiting to hear what action will be taken.

BBC reporter Caroline Hawley said the options available to the judge included ordering more search warrants and changing the McCanns' "arguido" status.

It had been thought the prosecutor would take longer to study the files, our correspondent said.

On Monday, police gave their files to the Algarve-based prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses, for him to decide how to proceed with the case.

Independent criminal lawyer Dr Joao Oliveira Trindade told the BBC that the prosecutor could recommend charging Kate and Gerry McCann or could make another request such as imposing restrictions on their movements.

Speaking outside the prosecutor's office in Portimao on Tuesday, assistant Luisa Duarte said Mr Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses had received the papers and decided they should go before an instructional judge.

The judge has 10 days to make a decision on the files' contents.

A district prosecutor - Luis Bilro Verao - has also been appointed to oversee the investigation in addition to the local prosecutor in charge.

Portugal's Attorney General, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, said that the investigation had not ended.

He said that further police action was necessary after which there could be a reassessment of possible bail conditions for the suspects.

He had full confidence in the way the police and prosecutors were handling the McCann investigation, he said.

DNA evidence

Portuguese police are playing down reports that DNA evidence with a 100% match to Madeleine was found in her parents' hire car.

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the investigative Policia Judiciaria (PJ), told Portuguese state broadcaster RTP: "We can't say with certainty whether it was the blood of person A or person B.

"They help guide us in our investigation but not with the mathematical precision some people are sa

The McCanns are back at their home in Rothley in Leicestershire where Mr McCann has described the events of the past week as an "unending nightmare".

In his blog, Mr McCann said he and his wife had absolute confidence that when all the facts were presented they would be able to show that "we played no part in Madeleine's abduction".

The couple, both 39, were declared formal suspects last week.

Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, said the handing over of the files to the judge "was expected".

"It doesn't change a thing," she said. "We will have to wait and see if they are bringing charges or not.

"If they bring charges against Kate and Gerry that will give them a chance to clear their name."

Social services

Madeleine, who was three at the time she disappeared, was reported missing from the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, on 3 May.

The McCanns returned home to the UK on Sunday with their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie.


The following day, police and social services in Leicestershire met to discuss the implications for the family of the developments in the case.

And on Tuesday, the McCanns were visited at home by Leicestershire Police's head of criminal investigations, Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small.

No bail conditions, travel restrictions or charges have been imposed on the couple, who were questioned separately for more than 24 hours last week.

But they can be recalled to Portugal with five days' notice.

Sniffer dogs

The BBC's Richard Bilton said cleaners had visited the McCanns' rented villa in Praia da Luz since their departure, but there had been no police activity.

He said the forensic case centred on the McCann's car, hired from the Budget rental chain on 27 May.



The McCanns' hire car, which they acquired more than three weeks after she was last seen, was searched by sniffer dogs from Britain in early August.

Last week, according to her family, detectives put to Mrs McCann the suggestion that her daughter's blood had been found inside the car.

Forensic investigator Professor David Barclay, who specialises in cold cases, said if blood had been found in the couple's hire car it could conceivably have been from their twins.

He told BBC East Midlands Today that siblings can share as many as 15 out of 20 DNA indicators.


Portuguese lawyer, Artur Rego, said that to recommend charges, the prosecutor would have to provide the judge with a formal report laying out the accusation, the evidence and the motive.

The judge must then decide whether there is enough evidence to proceed.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/6989960.stm

Published: 2007/09/11 21:45:44 GMT

© BBC MMVII

[vms]

Huumm. . .I'm thinking the Cuddle Cat as well.  Perhaps to examine the stuffing inside it?

The cuddle cat would be my guess too anna..I do remember reading someplace that it had been washed....but i guess whatever they might be looking for would still be there....and of course i am just guessing.

Why on earth would Cuddle Cat have been washed? (And, for that matter, why on earth would Kate's clothes that smelled of 6 corpses not have been washed? Especially before her vacation?) That's another thing that doesn't make sense to me--I'm not sure how pervasive corpse scent in clothing fibers is, but I wash everything before and after vacation. (And I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses).

Ok, it is inappropriate but that made me laugh, I don't spend a significant amount of time around corpses...

Also gave me the opportunity to tell you how cute your avatar is with the pink bow.

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Oops. Just to clarify, I meant it was inappropriate for me to laugh, not your post.

I am so confused on all the info we are reading. It is blood, it isn't blood etc., etc., etc. I don't know whether to believe that it was an actual statement from Kate McCann about the 6 corpses or not.

AND CONGRATULATIONS!

[BlueKYGirl]

Oops. Just to clarify, I meant it was inappropriate for me to laugh, not your post.

I am so confused on all the info we are reading. It is blood, it isn't blood etc., etc., etc. I don't know whether to believe that it was an actual statement from Kate McCann about the 6 corpses or not.

AND CONGRATULATIONS!

Oh, I know what you meant, vms!

(And, just to clarify, my husband played a small part in la bebe's existence, too. After posting that last comment I didn't quite like the implication--didn't mean to take all the credit for myself).

Thanks for the warm wishes! We are excited!

[AZSunny]

Did Kate actually make that statement about being around 6 corpses, or was that a quote attributed to her? 

I did note in the video that Gerry was asked about the sedation medicine, that Kate had a look of disgust on her face, as in "why would they even ask that?" she looked away briefly. 

I can not comprehend their involvement in this disappearance.  The actions they have taken, their religious beliefs, the time line, it just does not add up to me.  I really believe they are innocent.

Could the stroller have had Maddie's hair and DNA on it and it be placed in the trunk?  I think this was a transfer of hair and DNA from another object.  It would certainly be logical to store a stroller in the trunk.   Are they suggesting they put a dead Madeline in the stroller and took her somewhere?  With all that media?  Absurd!!  JMO

[Rob]

Finally got all caught up. Thank you all for the new info.

In the mean time, I registered http://boycottpraiadaluz.blogspot.com/ for future use. I think we all know what happens with a site like that. I'm not sure I will need it, but better safe than sorry.

I was driving a lot today and had a good bit of time to think about some aspects of the case.

1. The hair in the boot is easily explainable. The PLE has had access to her hair brush for over 130 days. Not much to really conclude here. Yet.

2. If what they PLE is claiming is true, the only way it could have occurred is while Gerry was playing tennis at 6:30pm.
This does not explain how Kate moved a body off the resort grounds with NO CAR. It also does not explain how she hid a body so well that no one could find it. Tourist do not generally know the lay of the land.

3. I think we have finally found a legal system more convoluted than the Dutch legal system. With the secrecy laws in place (and abided by only the McCanns) they are / were unable to hire their own private investigators. That's some system huh?

4. What should the McCanns do if they are charged (which I expect to happen tomorrow)? I for one would not return to Portugal. Screw em! I would petition the International Criminal Court or World Court to have the case heard there. The McCanns will NEVER EVER GET A FAIR TRIAL IN PORTUGAL ! Never! This case is now political. It went from criminal to political when the PLE through their accomplices in the media cast a horrible light over the McCanns and made it impossible to find a judge that does not have a pre-determined outcome. I have seen nothing from Portugal that suggests that a concept of innocent until proven guilty is in fashion. These people are scary and obviously have a hard time following their own laws.

5. At some point the McCanns are going to have to launch some sort of public relations campaign. If they are truly innocent, they need to get the public the information being held back by the PLE. I am not 100% sure that the PLE is not picking and choosing what fits their agenda. And that agenda is the McCanns DID IT.

[BlueKYGirl]

I don't know whether to believe that it was an actual statement from Kate McCann about the 6 corpses or not.

But wasn't that her whole excuse for why corpse scent was on her clothes? Because she came into contact with a corpse/corpses at work before vacation?

But, honestly, I don't know what to believe either.

[festa]

I know I am being biased at this time, I just cannot fathom them being this good at lying and deceiving - but regarding the substantial quantities of hair, Do we really know what "substantial" means?  a few strands?  Could the McCanns been transporting items in that trunk, like perhaps the child's personal effects, brush? this is very frustrating, only more evidence and information can help explain all this "evidence, regarding "Cuddle Cat":

When questioned by the Police as to why she automatically assumed that Madeleine had been kidnapped, and not just simply wandered off, Kate McCann said it was because she saw that "Cuddle Cat", Madeleine's favourite toy, which she had been cuddling when put to sleep, had been put on a shelf only an adult could reach.

Again, IF she/they are involved - this would be a very calculated coverup - to come up with this reasoning as to her belief of kidnapping.

[Rob]

I noticed yesterday at the Mirror someone had the photos of the McCanns and the stollers. One with three wheels and one with four. I should have saved it.

[MuffyBee]

Rob I think the McCann's had already hired a PR person.  iirc they have had one for some time.  Will see if I can find a link.

[BlueKYGirl]

I'd imagine that hair that's tangled in a hairbrush is different than a clump of hair that would fall out of a decomposing body. Of course we don't know the state or quantity of hair that was found...just pointing it out for what it's worth.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

I don't know whether to believe that it was an actual statement from Kate McCann about the 6 corpses or not.

But wasn't that her whole excuse for why corpse scent was on her clothes? Because she came into contact with a corpse/corpses at work before vacation?

But, honestly, I don't know what to believe either.

 Same here .. don't know what to think... read that about her clothing and also on the MIRROR site that she claimed ot have taken the Cuddle Cat to work with her??   And this is why the corpse smell on the clothing and the toy.
  This whole case is sad....  and getting more and more confusing . 

[MuffyBee]

Here is the link Rob:
Lib Dem hopeful behind McCanns' campaign
Last updated at 23:56pm on 8th September 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=480808&in_page_id=1770
The campaign by the McCanns to find their daughter has been masterminded during the past two months by public relations expert Justine McGuinness.

The 37-year-old former Lib Dem parliamentary candidate, who finished second to Conservative MP Oliver Letwin in the race for the West Dorset seat in the 2005 General Election, was selected by the McCanns via a headhunter.

She was chosen for the position specifically because of her background in politics and is paid a 'notional' salary from funds raised by the campaign.
more...

[Rob]

Rob I think the McCann's had already hired a PR person.  iirc they have had one for some time.  Will see if I can find a link.

Hi Muffy-
Yes the have had two. Clarence Mitchell and now Justine (I believe that is her name). I mean a true professional. It seems to me that they are up against a professional team of mud slingers...like the Holloways were.

[BlueKYGirl]

Same here .. don't know what to think... read that about her clothing and also on the MIRROR site that she claimed ot have taken the Cuddle Cat to work with her??   And this is why the corpse smell on the clothing and the toy.
  This whole case is sad....  and getting more and more confusing . 

Where did you see that about her taking Cuddle Cat to work? That's just strange. I'm also not sure why the clothes wouldn't have been washed, either. But maybe the corpse scent stays on there through multiple rounds of laundry.