Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[festa]

history of a difficult union


I'm sorry, what does that mean? who had a history of a difficult union, the McCanns? I'm confused what this is getting at.

And they have already interviewed everyone who rented that car since the child disappeared?  they are now re-interviewing?

the dogs smelled the death scent near the church, but the McCanns hire knew this in July- more confused here - Didn't anyone check the grounds for a burial then? in July...

[ospainter]

http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.1681385.0.hospital_consultant_is_maddy_witness.php

Hospital consultant is Maddy witness

One of the key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann inquiry, Dr Matthew Oldfield, is a consultant endocrinologist at Kingston Hospital.

(snipped)

National press reports said he was one of three witnesses brought forward by Portuguese police to a meeting with Robert Murat, over discrepancies in witness accounts.

He allegedly told them he had seen Mr Murat near the apartment. But Mr Murat said he was in all night.

OS

[festa]

And is Murat's only alibi his mother?

[MsVada]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

[festa]

Oh, I see, Oldfield is a friend of the McCanns who was dining with them that evening, so IF the McCanns did do something to Madeleine the suggestion would be that he helped coverup OR else he really did see Murat that evening.

[BlueKYGirl]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

Yes--or scrubs or something besides resort wear!

[Anna]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

Yes--or scrubs or something besides resort wear!

And latex gloves, disposable shoe covers, etc.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

 Scrubs .... Lab coats too I would guess.  IMO

[vms]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

Yes--or scrubs or something besides resort wear!

...while holding cuddle cat. 

[ospainter]

Time-line from OTR 9-10

McCann Timeline

8:40   PM Arrive at Dinner
9:05   PM Gerry checks on children
9:30   PM Dr. Oldfield checks on children
10:00 PM Kate checks on children, finds Madeleine missing
10:10 PM Police notified Madeleine missing
10:20 PM Officers arrive at apartment

OS

[MsVada]

This case just gets more bizzare as the days go by....

[festa]

How strong is the forensic evidence of “bodily fluids”?

It is not clear whether any blood was found during forensic tests on samples from the car or the McCanns’ clothing, or whether other material, such as DNA, was involved. Forensic experts say that there are several reasons for caution. First, in such a long-running investigation there is a risk of crime scenes becoming contaminated; there is also a risk of cross-contamination during the testing of different samples.

Second, it would not be surprising for traces of Madeleine’s DNA to appear in the car or on clothes after she disappeared. Cells containing her DNA could easily be transferred from, say, her cuddly toy that Kate has carried with her everywhere.

Yesterday Jon Corner, a godfather of one of the McCanns’ children, said: “The Cuddle Cat was reeking with Madeleine’s DNA. That easily explains why DNA has been found in the hire car and on clothing that Kate bought after Madeleine disappeared.”



How was the car tested?

In an unsatisfactory manner, it appears. The silver Renault was examined by the police on August 7 and samples were sent for analysis in Britain. The car was handed back to the McCanns two days later. The couple have been using it ever since.

Dr Hugh White, a Home Office pathologist based in Bristol, said he could not understand why the car was held by the police for only two days: “In this country the car would have been stripped down and the forensics team would be crawling all over it. There is no way it would have been handed back once blood had been found in it. It would be kept as evidence and used as an exhibit if there was a court case.”



Could a sniffer dog have detected the scent of a corpse in the car and on clothing belonging to Kate?

Dogs are trained, using body parts from mortuaries, to react to the distinctive smell of human remains.

British experts say this smell can persist in a car, which is difficult to clean, for weeks. However, they say that once clothes are washed it would be hard for dogs to detect a meaningful smell.

One forensic expert said: “You can imagine the fun that a defence lawyer would have with a dog that smelt a corpse. If a dog smelt a corpse, well, whose corpse?”



Might the McCanns have accidentally given Madeleine an overdose of sedative?

British doctors believe it is extremely unlikely for parents - especially doctors such as the McCanns – to give a child an overdose of regular medicines intended to sedate children.

Antiallergy medication, such as Piriton, can be given as a sedative but at least a bottle would be needed to cause an overdose. Professor Saad Shakir, of the Drug Safety Research Unit in Southampton, said: “It is very difficult to persuade a child to take that amount.”

The McCanns have said they only gave their children Calpol, which is a painkiller containing paracetamol. It does not have a sedative effect. If administered in huge doses, such as a couple of bottles, it would damage the liver - but the effect would take several days to become apparent. Nor is a child who has overdosed doomed: they can be given an antidote to neutralise the effect of the drug.



Could the McCanns still be fooling everyone?

If they were, it would be a truly extraordinary effort. “It is very difficult for two people to lie over a death, whether it was accidental or deliberate,” said Mike Berry, senior lecturer in forensic psychology at Manchester Metropolitan University. “I cannot see how they would be able to keep up a lie for so long under this media attention.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece

[BlueKYGirl]

Time-line from OTR 9-10

McCann Timeline

8:40   PM Arrive at Dinner
9:05   PM Gerry checks on children
9:30   PM Dr. Oldfield checks on children
10:00 PM Kate checks on children, finds Madeleine missing
10:10 PM Police notified Madeleine missing
10:20 PM Officers arrive at apartment

OS

Do we know when, during this timeline, Dr. O'Brien left, allegedly to care for his sick daughter? Was it before Kate discovered Madeleine missing?

[Rob]

history of a difficult union


I'm sorry, what does that mean? who had a history of a difficult union, the McCanns? I'm confused what this is getting at.

And they have already interviewed everyone who rented that car since the child disappeared?  they are now re-interviewing?

the dogs smelled the death scent near the church, but the McCanns hire knew this in July- more confused here - Didn't anyone check the grounds for a burial then? in July...

could this wonder dog being smelling corpses at the Church because that is where they have FUNERALS?
Hello???? anyone home?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Rob]

http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.1681385.0.hospital_consultant_is_maddy_witness.php

Hospital consultant is Maddy witness

One of the key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann inquiry, Dr Matthew Oldfield, is a consultant endocrinologist at Kingston Hospital.

(snipped)

National press reports said he was one of three witnesses brought forward by Portuguese police to a meeting with Robert Murat, over discrepancies in witness accounts.

He allegedly told them he had seen Mr Murat near the apartment. But Mr Murat said he was in all night.

OS

OS this is the incident that led to the confrontation at the police station being two McCann friends and Murat where a shouting match erupted. First time I have seen it was Oldfield.

His mother as his alibi is not an alibi in my opinion.

[MuffyBee]

Judge given evidence in McCann case as prosecutor raises stakes
By Amol Rajan in Praia da Luz and Ian Herbert
Published: 12 September 2007
snipped:
Despite the claims and counter-claims emerging from Portugal, the key to the police investigation seems to be the Renault Scenic. But it is uncertain whether police have tracked down and interviewed the individuals who hired the car in the period between Madeleine's disappearance and the McCanns hiring it.

Despite its apparent significance to police, the lease firm, Budget, said yesterday that it had expected to receive it back from the McCanns and was surprised when the couple left Portugal without handing over the keys. "The police have not asked for it back," a spokesman said. "The McCanns didn't tell us they were leaving the country or hand in the keys to us before they left. We now have an idea of where the car is and when it will be handed back."

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2953465.ece

The car is reportedly stored at Faro airport, where the McCanns may commission their own forensic examination of it.

[bleachedblack]

Haha--thanks--the bebe is my creation, but Klaas added the adorable pink bow!

I really do wonder about the corpse scent on the clothes, though--how up-close-and-personal was she with them? I'd think you'd have to be actively handling them to get the scent on your clothes, and if that's the case, 6 does seem excessive.

Don't most doctors wear lab coats, especially if they are around patients or dead bodies?

Yes--or scrubs or something besides resort wear!

I don't know about in England, but in my experience doctors rarely come in contact with a dead person. If there is a code in ICU the physician is present then maybe....but usually do not make contact. In the ER things are a little more hands on, and there physicians wear scrubs and/or lab coats. When a patient dies in a hospital on a general medical surgical floor physicians are almost never there.

What type of specialty did the McCanns have in medicine?

[Anna]

Pearl at BFN posted this time line taken from news sources:

Thank you so much DSSM!  From what you posted I get this:

6pm The McCanns collect Madeleine and their twin siblings from the creche at the Ocean Club

7.30 The three children are put to bed

8.30 Kate and Gerry McCann arrive at the tapas restaurant

08:40 ..McCann’s arrived for dinner at 2040 local time

9.00 Gerry McCann goes to check on his children

09:05 ..Mr McCann checked children 2105 ..

9.05 Mr McCann is returning to the table when he runs into Jeremy Wilkins,  the pair chat in the street just outside the McCann's apartment

9.10 Jane Tanner, Mr O'Brien's partner,(has a sick child) is coming late to the dinner when she sees a man walking away from the McCann's apartment with a child over his shoulder. She tells police that she passed directly alongside Mr McCann and Mr Wilkins; the latter tells police he saw neither her nor the mysterious man

9.25 Gerry McCann returns to the restaurant. Mr Oldfield leaves to check on his own children  (my thought, 20 minutes in area of the apartment)

09:30 .. Dr Oldfield at 2130

9.30 Mr Oldfield goes to the McCann's apartment; he doesn't raise any suspicions at the time but later says that he noticed there was more light in the apartment.  (my thought, had he been in the apartment before to realize a lighting difference?)

9.35 Mr Oldfield returns to the table

9.55 Mr O'Brien returns

10:00 .. Mrs. McCann finds shutter & window open, child missing at 2200

10.00 Kate McCann goes to the apartment and discovers that her daughter has gone.

 She returns to the restaurant and raises the alarm

 (which means she went the football field distance again, leaving 2 other children in an apartment where she has just found one child missing from …my comment)

Mrs. McCann said police were called within 10 minutes

Police arrive within addl. 10 minutes

Investigation begins within 30 minutes.

60 staff and guests assist searching til daybreak

Police notified border police, Spanish police and airports

Hundreds of searchers begin assisting to search.




http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=6904.msg271194#msg271194

[Angiex911dsptchr]

history of a difficult union


I'm sorry, what does that mean? who had a history of a difficult union, the McCanns? I'm confused what this is getting at.

And they have already interviewed everyone who rented that car since the child disappeared?  they are now re-interviewing?

the dogs smelled the death scent near the church, but the McCanns hire knew this in July- more confused here - Didn't anyone check the grounds for a burial then? in July...

could this wonder dog being smelling corpses at the Church because that is where they have FUNERALS?
Hello???? anyone home?!?!?!?!?!?!

 You do have a point there...   But.. dumb question..  can a dog smell a corpse if its in a casket?  If its a Catholic Church..and all..  hell.. I am loosing my point here I think. 
  Maybe not..?  Dogs smell corpse.. even in a casket?
 

[festa]

No exact time but this:


Dr O'Brien, who lives in Exeter, was forced to make a statement last month, attacking "completely untrue and extremely hurtful" reports about him in the Portuguese newspapers.

Portuguese police also said there was "no basis" for the allegations. Dr O'Brien and his wife moved to Exeter from Leicester shortly before the holiday in Praia da Luz.

On the night Madeleine disappeared, Dr O'Brien left the table at around the time she is believed to have been snatched.

But it is understood he was looking after his young daughter, who was ill and vomiting in her room.
--------------------------

The witness that saw a man carrying a child under a blanket the night that Madeleine McCann disappeared is fighting back against the allegations that she and her partner Russell O'Brien met prime suspect Robert Murat days before Maddie was snatched.  According to the Daily Mail she is also said to be "devastated" that she didn't do anything to prevent the tragedy.

 
Madeleine McCann Witness Fights Back Against Allegations, Devastated

The mother-of-two was dining with Madeleine's parents when the little girl was grabbed from their holiday apartment just 40 yards away.  Miss Tanner is now said to be racked by anguish and "grief stricken" that she didn't raise the alarm. Friends say that her life has collapsed after she saw a man carrying a child under a blanket on the fateful night - but dismissed it as someone with his own child.

***

Reports in a Portuguese newspaper claimed Dr O'Brien and Murat were both in Exeter days before the kidnapping.  Miss Tanner and Dr O'Brien deny having any contact with Murat.  Miss Tanner told the Express: "We are not allowed to say anything. I am sorry, I haven't got anything to add." When Miss Tanner was asked: "You were the last person to see Madeleine? Why can't you talk?"  She replied: "Yes I know. I am sorry."

The description that Miss Tanner gave to police has been circulated across the world. Detectives say she holds the key to identifying Madeleine's abductor.  Robert Murat, 33, the only suspect named by Portuguese police, admits he fits the description. But he insists he's innocent.