Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Anna]

Going to watch Greta for updates but last night, she and the panel had their usual half fast concept of what had happened.

Evidently, no one actually saw Madeleine after 6:30 since the Drs O'Brien and Oldfield only listened from outside the door.

Greta was suggesting that the mother Kate would have had to put pillows under the cover to fool them.

Not if they walked all the way to the apartment but stopped oddly short of actually opening the door and seeing the children.

So we have from 6:30 until 10:00 when the alarm was raised by Kate returning to the restaurant and announcing that "they" had taken Madeleine.

Is this correct?  No one except the McCanns saw her during that time?

.

[ospainter]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy311.xml

Madeleine McCann: Confusion over last hours

(snipped)

9:15pm Jane Tanner told police that at this time she went to check on her daughter, who was ill, and recalled seeing Mr McCann talking to Mr Wilkins. As she went into the apartment, she saw a man aged around 35 carrying a little girl wrapped in a blanket.

She thought nothing of it but is now convinced this was the kidnapper. The child's pyjamas matched the description of those Madeleine was wearing. Mr Wilkins apparently saw no such man, and does not remember seeing Miss Tanner. He has told police: "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing."

(snipped)

me-is this Dr. O'Briens companion, was it Dr. O'Brien or Jane Tanner that went to check on sick child or is this a different sick child?


OS

[Angiex911dsptchr]

My question:

Don't any of these people have cell phones? 

 ANd a good question that is Klaas !

[BlueKYGirl]

So we have from 6:30 until 10:00 when the alarm was raised by Kate returning to the restaurant and announcing that "they" had taken Madeleine.

Is this correct?  No one except the McCanns saw her during that time?

And, evidently, from 6:30 to 9-ish the McCanns would have had free time when no one saw them (9-ish if you believe some reports; 8:30 if you believe the McCanns' account). This period could be extended if you take into account the time Dr. O'Brien spent away from the table tending to his daughter.

Who can verify seeing Madeleine alive at 6:30?

[robots]

lets see

you leave a ROOM unlocked


and then you go off Squaking that "THEY TOOK HER"


HUH ???? WHAT ???


just couldnt be that the almost 4 year old was out exploring or looking for her parents

nawwww....................couldnt be


heck, she might have been right around the corner wandering around


SOMETHING was STINKING from the  GET GO 

[vms]

Snipped:

The last time Madeleine was seen alive was by staff at the Ocean Club creche at 6pm.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0909_maddie2.shtml

[Anna]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy311.xml

Madeleine McCann: Confusion over last hours

(snipped)

9:15pm Jane Tanner told police that at this time she went to check on her daughter, who was ill, and recalled seeing Mr McCann talking to Mr Wilkins. As she went into the apartment, she saw a man aged around 35 carrying a little girl wrapped in a blanket.

She thought nothing of it but is now convinced this was the kidnapper. The child's pyjamas matched the description of those Madeleine was wearing. Mr Wilkins apparently saw no such man, and does not remember seeing Miss Tanner. He has told police: "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing."

(snipped)

me-is this Dr. O'Briens companion, was it Dr. O'Brien or Jane Tanner that went to check on sick child or is this a different sick child?


OS

How does Dr Oldfield figure into this?  Did he also have a sick child?  Were two away tending sick children or did Dr Oldfield only go by to check on the McCanns's children while up checking on his own?

[Anna]

Snipped:

The last time Madeleine was seen alive was by staff at the Ocean Club creche at 6pm.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0909_maddie2.shtml

Thanks.  OK, so we have four hours when this child was only seen by her parents.

[BlueKYGirl]

Snipped:

The last time Madeleine was seen alive was by staff at the Ocean Club creche at 6pm.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0909_maddie2.shtml

Merci!

A girl on Greta just said the DNA found in the car could have been on a blanket that wrapped Madeleine after she had died.

Dr. Baden said you can tell by looking at hair under a microscope if it came from someone who's dead or alive.

[AZSunny]

My question:

Don't any of these people have cell phones? 

i was about to type the same question 

And would there phones from England work there?  USA cells didn't in Aruba!

[San]

I was just watching a rerun of Nancy Grace and someone phoned in a question if the police investigated who rented the car before the McCann's.  This reporter said she talked to the rental car company and they said yes that car has been rented out before and they could not give out that information.  The reporter asked was it against company policy and the person said no the police came to them and told them not to say anything.

[BlueKYGirl]

I was just watching a rerun of Nancy Grace and someone phoned in a question if the police investigated who rented the car before the McCann's.  This reporter said she talked to the rental car company and they said yes that car has been rented out before and they could not give out that information.  The reporter asked was it against company policy and the person said no the police came to them and told them not to say anything.

What a coincidence that would be!

[MuffyBee]

When I first heard about Madeleine McCann being missing, I had read that Gerry and Kate McCann were in a restaurant very close to the apartment the children were left sleeping in, that the apartment could be seen from where they sat.  In the photo Klaas posted in this thread, yes, you can see the apartment.  But it's pretty far away imo.  Not within earshot certainly.  And no, I don't really think it is a clear shot from the restaurant to the McCann's apartment.  And I had read the McCann's checked on the children every 30 minutes.  Then it turns out it may have been more than that. And someone else was checking on them too.  And someone else only stood outside the door and listened...It's like peeling an onion.  And then Dr. O'Brien was in and out of the restaurant to check on he and his partner's sick child.  Some doctor.  If the child is sick, stay in and care for them.  Geez.  I keep hearing about the sloopy police investigation, and I will agree to some of that alright.  Like the crime scene wasn't secured-people in and out etc.  I also think the police were somewhat misled by statements made by the McCann's and their friends, whether that was intentional or not, I don't know.  (meaning who checked on the children and when etc.)  The police didn't seem to be looking very closely at the parents in the beginning, because I don't think at the time there was reason for suspicion.  That said, now it is days and days later, and the police are asking questions, trying to account for 30 min.  Heck, I would have a hard time accounting for 30 min. time even a couple days ago...

[BlueKYGirl]

When I first heard about Madeleine McCann being missing, I had read that Gerry and Kate McCann were in a restaurant very close to the apartment the children were left sleeping in, that the apartment could be seen from where they sat.  In the photo Klaas posted in this thread, yes, you can see the apartment.  But it's pretty far away imo.  Not within earshot certainly.  And no, I don't really think it is a clear shot from the restaurant to the McCann's apartment. 

I don't either--the back window doesn't even face the tapas restaurant--and unless their room/suite/apartment spans the building, with windows and doors on the front facing the tapas restaurant, then what we were all led to believe at the beginning is just a little bit false. So many of these details just don't add up.

[robots]

When I first heard about Madeleine McCann being missing, I had read that Gerry and Kate McCann were in a restaurant very close to the apartment the children were left sleeping in, that the apartment could be seen from where they sat.  In the photo Klaas posted in this thread, yes, you can see the apartment.  But it's pretty far away imo.  Not within earshot certainly.  And no, I don't really think it is a clear shot from the restaurant to the McCann's apartment. 

I don't either--the back window doesn't even face the tapas restaurant--and unless their room/suite/apartment spans the building, with windows and doors on the front facing the tapas restaurant, then what we were all led to believe at the beginning is just a little bit false. So many of these details just don't add up.

 

[robots]

LOAD ALERT 

this thing just kept getting worse EVERYDAY

[Maggie]

How long was Dr O'B  gone when he was checking on the children?  Did he have a rental car? Perhaps the same rental car later rented by the McCanns?  If it ends up Maddy left and went back to Britain with someone in the social party, I get Robots cigar.

[ospainter]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy311.xml

Madeleine McCann: Confusion over last hours

(snipped)

9:15pm Jane Tanner told police that at this time she went to check on her daughter, who was ill, and recalled seeing Mr McCann talking to Mr Wilkins. As she went into the apartment, she saw a man aged around 35 carrying a little girl wrapped in a blanket.

She thought nothing of it but is now convinced this was the kidnapper. The child's pyjamas matched the description of those Madeleine was wearing. Mr Wilkins apparently saw no such man, and does not remember seeing Miss Tanner. He has told police: "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing."

(snipped)

me-is this Dr. O'Briens companion, was it Dr. O'Brien or Jane Tanner that went to check on sick child or is this a different sick child?


OS

How does Dr Oldfield figure into this?  Did he also have a sick child?  Were two away tending sick children or did Dr Oldfield only go by to check on the McCanns's children while up checking on his own?

It really doesn't make much sense to me, why Dr. Oldfield would offer to check on the McCann children and not go inside apt. That is NOT checking imo. I don't know what to believe about him, either he went in the apt. or he didn't. If he went in he notices lighting but not the child he was supposed to be checking on.

9:30pm Dr Matthew Oldfield left the table and offered to check the McCann children. In his first police statement he said he merely listened at the door of apartment 5a but later said he had gone in and noticed that the room seemed lighter than the others, as if the shutters had been opened. He cannot be certain whether Madeleine was there.

All these families should have left their children home with grandparents or someone responsible for their care while they went on holiday imo. They could have eaten, drank til hell froze over at least their children would have been taken care of properly. Sends chills up my spine thinking of little children alone for 2 hrs. But then again, children have been taken out of their rooms in this country, maybe I am being too judgmental. Just scares the heck out of me to think about it..

Having said that I personally do not think the McCanns caused the disappearance of Maddy, did they lack judgment, oh yea, but that doesn't spell murder or accidental death for me.

I would like to read 2 reports that say the same thing. Haven't so far. Or better yet, just 1 truthful report.

OS

[Puzzler]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts.....Maddy-hunt

NEW ROADS TO BE DUG UP IN MADDY HUNT
DETECTIVES hunting for Madeleine McCann were last night preparing to excavate an area around the church in Praia da Luz where they believe the little girl could be buried.

The fresh searches come as the police claim to have mounting evidence in the case against her parents Kate and Gerry.

In the coming days, specialist teams are expected to move into the narrow streets of Praia da Luz and begin a major excavation.

The main focus of the dig will be the vaults, grounds and roads around the tiny Catholic church where Madeleine’s parents sought solace and spent so much of their time after her disappearance.

It is believed teams of officers will begin digging up roadworks which were in place across the town during early May.

Most have since been filled in and repaved but police believe Madeleine’s body could have been concealed in one of the trenches or ditches in place at the time.

The roadworks affected a large part of the little town and began in an area just yards from the couple’s holiday apartment at the Ocean Club Complex.

But the area police are most interested in examining lies in and around the tiny church of Nossa Senhora da Luz – Our Lady of Light.

Kate and Gerry visited the church many times after Madeleine went missing and were even given their own key so that they could turn up whenever they wished to pray in private.

They became close friends with the Catholic priest, Father Jose Manuel Pacheco and the Anglican vicar, Haynes Hubbard.

In an extraordinary twist, police are now expected to begin searching the vaults of the tiny sandstone building after revealing that they had fresh evidence.

Whether the McCanns hid anything in there is understood to have been one of the 22 questions they were asked during hours of police interviews last week.

The renewed searches are being ordered by the public prosecutor as he studies the case papers, which were formally handed over by police yesterday.

The handover marks the beginning of the next chapter in the investigation and will allow the authorities to make a decision over whether the McCanns will face charges.

The police are also understood to be planning to order a search of the villa where the family spent the majority of their stay in Praia da Luz after moving out of the Ocean Club apartment.


Uniformed and maritime police were contacted on Friday and put on standby to conduct searches at specific locations. One area pinpointed was believed to be south of the Ocean Club – the holiday complex where the McCanns were staying.

The last searches conducted, including excavations, took place at the villa of Robert Murat, who was until last week the only official suspect in the case. But the search proved fruitless, leading to speculation that Murat would soon be cleared of any suspicion.

Despite the McCanns being named as suspects last week, Murat, 35, who has a daughter the same age as Madeleine, is still to be formally cleared by the Policia Judiciaria.

The alleged discovery of Madeleine’s DNA in the McCanns’ hire car has created some confusion for investigators because the couple did not take possession of the vehicle until 25 days after their daughter went missing.

One theory being examined by officers on the case is that the McCanns accidentally killed the little girl, who was three at the time, and then hastily disposed of her body.

However, the suggestion is that, fearing they were about to be discovered, they returned to the site and removed the body using their hire car.

The McCanns have reacted with astonishment and anger at the accusations and have even said they believe the police could have planted evidence in an effort to set them up.

A close friend of the family said: “It is simply ludicrous to suggest that Madeleine’s body was in the car. How on earth could this have happened?

“Kate and Gerry hired that car 25 days after Madeleine went missing.

“This is a hot country, it is ludicrous to suggest they could have hidden the body and then moved it at a later date.”

There have been many criticisms of the Portuguese police’s investigation, particularly their failure to seal off important locations in the area in the hours after Madeleine went missing.

The apartment was not declared a crime scene and therefore vital evidence could have been contaminated.

Also, the McCanns’ hire car, which the police believe is crucial to the investigation, remained in the couple’s possession even after so-called DNA evidence was discovered.

The silver Renault Scenic has been kept on by the couple, who are understood to be ordering their own independent forensic examinations of the vehicle

[MuffyBee]

Horrocks warns on biased McCann reports


John Plunkett
Tuesday September 11, 2007
MediaGuardian.co.uk
http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,,2166699,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=4