Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[BlueKYGirl]

Madeleine's parents consider new fund for legal battle


It seemed to go back and forth whether they will use any of the Madeleine fund for their legal bills with them stating they would not as to not anger anyone, but now it seems they may set up a seperate fund.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2439634.ece

I guess, this way, at least donors know what they're giving to. I think one of the complaints about the general fund was that there could be people angered over having donated to a fund to find Maddie, when it was actually being used for legal defense. I can understand it.

[MuffyBee]

Madeleine's parents consider new fund for legal battle


It seemed to go back and forth whether they will use any of the Madeleine fund for their legal bills with them stating they would not as to not anger anyone, but now it seems they may set up a seperate fund.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2439634.ece

It's wise for the McCann's to set up a separate fund for their defense.  From what I can gather reading in articles, neither McCann parent has worked since they left on the vacation, and the original fund was to help them with living expenses and to use it for expenses related to the search.  I read as a cardiologist, Gerry McCann earned 120,000 pounds per year, and Kate earned less as a GP.  I don't know when or if either will or can go back to work soon.  I will see if I can find the articles and links if anyone is interested.  I read about some of this last night.  I think there would be anger and outrage on the part of some people  if the McCann's used the money for their defense.  Some would say it was okay, because they would feel they were innocent.  Yet others would be angry they donated money to go toward the defense of someone that may be responsbile for Madeleine's demise.  A separate fund is a good idea.

[festa]

KATE and Gerry McCann are expected to learn by today whether they can use the Find Madeleine fund to pay their mounting legal costs.

Neither has earned anything since they took unpaid leave three months ago to remain in Portugal.

However since they were made official suspects in the case of daughter Madeleine's disappearance, the couple have employed one of Britain's most expensive QCs, Michael Caplan.

If the case takes months and spans two separate legal systems -- British and Portuguese -- the total legal costs could run into millions.

The Find Madeleine fund was originally set up to "help find Madeleine McCann and support her family and bring her abductors to justice".

However today its board of trustees will meet in London to determine whether the money -- currently more than $2.4 million -- can be released to pay legal costs.

---------------


IDK, I thought they said they wouldn't touch the fund, then said maybe another fund would be set up, now we hear there is a meeting to determine whether or not they can touch the monies for their legal defense.

[festa]

Someone made a statement to the effect that the McCanns didn't want to anger anyone - even if 90% of the people who contributed didn't care if they used it for legal fees, they didn't want to anger the 10% who perhaps did.

[MuffyBee]

Kate McCann shows the strain as Portuguese police bid to 'crack' her
Last updated at 14:05pm on 12th September 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2xvwuv
snipped
The McCanns' public appearance came as police in Portugal increased pressure on them by making an application to seize Mrs McCann's diary which, they claim, could help prove that she killed her daughter.

As a number of family friends mounted a defence of the couple, others suggested the strain of the inquiry was beginning to take its toll.

Police believe that entries in Mrs McCann's diary could explain to a court why an apparently devoted mother could have killed her child and engaged in what they claim is an elaborate cover-up.

The new revelations follow an emergency application by Portugal's public prosecutor to take possession of an unnamed item - now understood to be the diary - within 24 hours.

Although the diary, which Madeleine's mother has kept updated almost constantly since the four-year-old vanished on 3 May, is already in the police's hands, legal rules mean that they need judicial authorisation to use it any trial.
The judge in the case, Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias, has a day to grant the request, which is thought to be highly unusual - but he is expected to approve the application

[festa]

This is part of a kind of good cop/bad cop article, the entire article with more scenarios can be viewed here:
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22408027-5001021,00.html


Police told Gerry McCann they found a trace of Madeleine's blood on the floor under the sofa in the apartment.

Sinister explanation: Her body was hidden under the sofa and later moved.

Innocent explanation: After accidentally cutting herself, Madeleine crawled under the sofa while playing. Alternatively, perhaps she took off a piece of clothing with blood on it and stuffed it out of the way under the furniture.
-------------------------

I missed that they found blood under a sofa, knew there were splatters, but didn't know where.

[festa]

I know the twins are young (2 I believe) but still wouldn't they see any of this?  Jessie Davis' (young mother killed by her married cop boyfriend) son was 2 when he said "Mommy was crying. Mommy broke the table. Mommy's in rug."

If there was a violent altercation, they would certainly be traumatized by that and if the parents carried Madeleine away, wouldn't the twins note that, Where are taking Madeleine?  Then again, I've asked, if someone sneek in and take her, neither twin awakened?  IDK, very puzzling.

[MuffyBee]

Festa ~  I've read in articles the twins didn't even wake up when the police and others were in the apartment the night Madeleine was reported missing.  I think that is where some of the rumors about the children being sedated come from.  I can find a link if you are interested in that article.  The twins were put into day care some of the time while the McCann's went about their activities after Madeleine was missing. 

Something comes to mind.  If Madeleine died the night she was reported missing, there would be a problem of how to keep a body until it could be disposed.  What if Madeleine wasn't dead until a later time?  Perhaps she was head injured?   And died or was killed later?  I don't like to think of it, but it has come to mind.  I wouldn't think a comatose child would begin to degrade.  Ugh.  Horrible thought.

[A's Fever]

Muffy, I did read a discussion of a similar scenario on another site.  Some speculate that Maddie fell into a coma and the doctors tried to save her (maybe even did a trach, accounting for blood specks) but she later died.  Or, that she was somehow injured and the doctors put her into a drug-induced coma in hopes of treating her, which accounts for both the drug and blood rumors.  These scenarios would assume that the doctors would have these meds and equipment with them, that they had someplace to stow her, and, some help.  Again, just rumor and speculation from another board.

[MuffyBee]

Muffy, I did read a discussion of a similar scenario on another site.  Some speculate that Maddie fell into a coma and the doctors tried to save her (maybe even did a trach, accounting for blood specks) but she later died.  Or, that she was somehow injured and the doctors put her into a drug-induced coma in hopes of treating her, which accounts for both the drug and blood rumors.  These scenarios would assume that the doctors would have these meds and equipment with them, that they had someplace to stow her, and, some help.  Again, just rumor and speculation from another board.

A's Fever those are interesting theories.  As far as equipment, I know someone that performed a trach using a ballpoint pen with the cartridge removed in an emergency situation and it was on a child.  (successful too).  That said, I don't know enough about all the rest of those things like how and where they would keep Madeleine and etc.  That would mean they would have to have help, which means more people.  I wonder if the pressure being applied to the McCann's is also for the people they were vacationing with?  To see if they have any knowledge or even some ideas of what may have happened.  Maybe get one of the others to talk, (cut a deal), so they aren't put through more of an ordeal then they may face already. 

[carolyn]

Maybe I am being to simplistic on this...but here is my question.  If the McCann parents are somehow responsible for Madeleine's disappearance...why have they been pushing so hard to keep it in the media and get the word out?  If a parent was responsible for causing this childs death...I would think the easy way of handeling it would be to allow the media and LE to drop the case...which happens all of the time.
 

Carolyn

[A's Fever]

Yes, I wonder what would happen if the police brought the friends in for tough interrogations (I am sure they have already been interviewed).  As accomplices after the fact, they would be in less trouble than the McCann's who would ultimately be held responsible for the death.  But why would their friends sacrifice their own families and careers to cover for the McCanns?  For the friend or friends to hold a secret for this long on the world stage and under such stress for a crime they did not commit . . . . why?

[NYC_lover]

After 4 months found blood on wall, and in the car.
I know many procedure in cases, where they first investigating the parents, family remember and friends (or a possible suspect contact, between suspect and witness) in a missing case. And the first procedure start in a missing case is check first the room or somewhere where somebody is disappeared and the rest of all this situations.
That makes sense!

[MuffyBee]

'Find Madeleine's body and prove we killed her': McCanns' challenge to police

Last updated at 17:35pm on 12th September 2007
snipped
The McCanns have issued a challenge to Portuguese police investigating Madeleine's disappearance saying: "Find the body and prove we killed her."

It is understood their lawyers have told them that without a body it will be extremely difficult for the authorities to press charges.

A close friend said: "The legitimate question to ask Portuguese police is: 'Where is the body?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am undecided as to whether the parents have any knowledge of the disappearance of Madeleine, but I don't buy the "no body, no case" theme.  The McCann's attorneys have told them without a body it will be extremely difficult for the authorities to press charges. 
Extremely difficult maybe.  But not impossible, imo. 

And there are ways besides finding the body that can show Madeleine was murdered and by who's hand.  Finding the body would be the best way of course.  But if they can't, then there are all of the other things that can add up to make a case, such as DNA, interviews, emails, diaries, wiretaps and etc.  More difficult of course.  There can be ways to figure if perhaps Madeleine is no longer alive, through blood spatter pattern, and the other things I mentioned earlier-even the hair amount being discussed in the car trunk.  Just because the police can't produce a body right now isn't proof Madeleine is not dead by accident or murder. It's a really big mess and I do wish Madeleine could be found alive.

[NYC_lover]

Maybe I am being to simplistic on this...but here is my question.  If the McCann parents are somehow responsible for Madeleine's disappearance...why have they been pushing so hard to keep it in the media and get the word out?  If a parent was responsible for causing this childs death...I would think the easy way of handeling it would be to allow the media and LE to drop the case...which happens all of the time.
 

Carolyn

''why have they been pushing so hard to keep it in the media and get the word out?''
This can be have different reasons:
* their own plead rather ( that they have nothing to do with them own daughter her disappeared).
* But I also know, some parents have something to do with a disappeared of them own daugther.

[festa]

Update: Madeleine Fund will not pay for Kate and Gerry McCann Legal Costs
 

[carolyn]

I am glad that they won't use the Madeleine's fund for their legal expenses.  I suspect there are people who can and are willing to help out by starting a separate legal aid fund for them.  It sounds like they will need it.

I know that parents have harmed their children and lied about it.  Even giving false identification of the suspect that took the child.  I do not agree with the parents leaving the children alone. However, there seems to be a lot about this case that IMO does not point at the parents.  I need more information/evidence before I will believe that the McCann's caused harm to Madeleine.  The supposed evidence that has been presented also seems to have other explanations.....

[Anna]

How would the dinner companions know anything about what happened?  The McCann's didn't have to tell them anything unless asking for their assistance and then they could only ask one.

Mr. McCann was seen talking to another individual, also.  Not a member of their party I don't think.  Can't recall the name, maybe a Mr. Winters or Withers?? 

Anyway, unless asking some friend to assist them, the dinner guests wouldn't know what was happening in the apartment.  I believe the timeline for the McCanns arriving at dinner is 8:55 pm so before that time, no one saw them or the children. 

Maybe they kept having others check on the children hoping another would find she was missing.

I am still not convinced that they are guilty, however.   Want to see more evidence and something definite, not something that one says is this and another says is that.

DNA alone won't be a whole case.  PLE needs more than that.  But based on their own behavior, I "suspect" the parents of some sort of involvement.

Earlier I posted how the British government sent a person to handle their "campaign" to find Madeleine and the PR and press and media involved in searching for her.  Perhaps this is how things came to be so high profile.  It may not have been the intent of the McCanns for things to go so global but this government sent PR person took off with it. 

Refusing to cooperate with the PR people provided by the British government (couldn't Beth Twitty/Dave have used something like that!) would look very strange for people wanting to locate their missing child.  They may not have had much say in the matter about it going high profile.

This is just my opinion and I repeat, I am suspicious of them but remain unconvinced that they have done anything wrong.  But I do see ways that they COULD have.

.

[vms]

The strollers:

http://i3.tinypic.com/6euwhv9.jpg

http://i8.tinypic.com/630xhee.jpg

[MuffyBee]

From Times Online
September 12, 2007
Police to study diary and laptop from McCanns
David Brown in Praia da Luz
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2441735.ece?token=null&offset=0
snipped
Police are planning fresh searches in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz, where Madeleine went missing 132 days ago, including digging around the village church of Nossa Senhora da Luz, according to Portuguese newspapers.

Portuguese police refused to confirm or deny the report, and there was no sign of searches at the church today.

The Anglican vicar for the Algarve, Father Haynes Hubbard, told journalists outside the church: "The church is a place of hope, a sanctuary, light, a refuge - and it continues to be so.

"It has no other function in this community or in any other community, and any suggestion otherwise is ridiculous."

He did not know anything about the rumoured searches of the church, but welcomed police inside.

"I hope they search it, I hope they search it very well, and maybe they can find something," he said.