Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Maggie]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

[SteveDinMD]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

[SteveDinMD]

From prime suspects to hounded victims - how parents turned the media tide | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited


http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2174560,00.html


The parents continue to work with these high profile PR people being financed by parties unknown at this point.

But it was the British government that had the troops on the ground, so to speak, from the very first day Madeleine was missing, making certain just the right public persona was presented by the McCanns.

Something about that I just don't like and just don't trust.

.

Thanks, Anna.

From the same article:

This week a senior Portuguese reporter, who has covered the case from the beginning, gave the first insights into the systematic way in which investigators passed on information to local journalists.

"A detective, not connected to the investigation, was appointed, who was told what he was allowed to say," the journalist told the Guardian. "He gave three or four off the record briefings in which he described details of the investigation [to a group of reporters]." The intention, he said, was to pass a message to the "British addicts" (the media), which had been critical of the investigation. "Here it is not done like that normally - police do not brief journalists."

Such briefings, added Carlos Anjos, chairman of the Union of Portuguese Detectives, were acts of self defence. "There was a temptation by detectives to use the Portuguese press as a means of counter-attacking," he said.

VMS: 

You've posted quite possibly the most damning evidence against Portugese authories yet.  So, assuming it's true, Portugese police were systematically violating their own investigative secrecy laws as acts of "self-defense" in the face of critical international press coverage.  This is the first confirmation of what many of us had surmised to have been the case early on.  Does anyone seriously believe this was done on the personal initiative of low-level police operatives?  If so, I've got some ocean-front property in Iowa to sell you.  The word for what we have here is spelled:  C O N S P I R A C Y.  This campaign of police and prosecutorial misconduct must have had approval at very high levels, otherwise it would have been immediately stifled.  I don't know what the penalties are for violating Portugese secrecy laws, but if I were in the British Foreign Office, I'd be demanding prosecution of ALL responsible parties.  It's time to investigate the investigation.  The British Government might also consider abrogating its adherance to the EU rendition treaty which enables foreign political abuse of its citizens on British territory. 

[robots]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

the problem is, that the fact remains that PEOPLE all over the world have "HELPED" their friends out of all kinds of bad situations...
there was a case just a awhile ago where a COP killed the pregnat girlfriend and the COP then called another woman friend to help him get rid of the body..
this was the case where the little boy said "mommy is in the RUG"

it happens all the time, because YOU or most people wouldnt Help a "FRIEND" doesnt mean it doesnt happen

"family" are constantly helping other family members move bodies

perhaps some in the tapas group were like family

 

[SteveDinMD]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

the problem is, that the fact remains that PEOPLE all over the world have "HELPED" their friends out of all kinds of bad situations...
there was a case just a awhile ago where a COP killed the pregnat girlfriend and the COP then called another woman friend to help him get rid of the body..
this was the case where the little boy said "mommy is in the RUG"

it happens all the time, because YOU or most people wouldnt Help a "FRIEND" doesnt mean it doesnt happen

"family" are constantly helping other family members move bodies

perhaps some in the tapas group were like family

 

The woman who helped the police officer dispose of his murdered girlfriend is a bona fide idiot who probably didn't even understand that her actions were inviting criminal liability.  By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.  This doesn't technically exonerate them, but absolutely NOTHING has been brought to light that would implicate them.  Given that much higher probability scenarios went uninvestigated and given the obvious misconduct of Portugese authorities, people should refrain from making allegations against the McCanns and their travel companions unless and until substantive evidence is brought to bear in support of such allegations. 

[robots]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

the problem is, that the fact remains that PEOPLE all over the world have "HELPED" their friends out of all kinds of bad situations...
there was a case just a awhile ago where a COP killed the pregnat girlfriend and the COP then called another woman friend to help him get rid of the body..
this was the case where the little boy said "mommy is in the RUG"

it happens all the time, because YOU or most people wouldnt Help a "FRIEND" doesnt mean it doesnt happen

"family" are constantly helping other family members move bodies

perhaps some in the tapas group were like family

 

The woman who helped the police officer dispose of his murdered girlfriend is a bona fide idiot who probably didn't even understand that her actions were inviting criminal liability.  By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.  This doesn't technically exonerate them, but absolutely NOTHING has been brought to light that would implicate them.  Given that much higher probability scenarios went uninvestigated and given the obvious misconduct of Portugese authorities, people should refrain from making allegations against the McCanns and their travel companions unless and until substantive evidence is brought to bear in support of such allegations. 

i agree, she was an idiot.
however she knew what she was doing helping someone move a dead body.
unless you have the IQ of a ROCK, then you know there are implications to moving a MURDERED DEAD BODY

and yet, i would say the parents that left their BABIES unattended are also TOTAL IDIOTS

absolutle IDIOTS. how old are the twins ?  the missing girl was not even 4 years old

on the scale of idiocy, they are an an 11 out of A possible 10

[robots]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

the problem is, that the fact remains that PEOPLE all over the world have "HELPED" their friends out of all kinds of bad situations...
there was a case just a awhile ago where a COP killed the pregnat girlfriend and the COP then called another woman friend to help him get rid of the body..
this was the case where the little boy said "mommy is in the RUG"

it happens all the time, because YOU or most people wouldnt Help a "FRIEND" doesnt mean it doesnt happen

"family" are constantly helping other family members move bodies

perhaps some in the tapas group were like family

 

The woman who helped the police officer dispose of his murdered girlfriend is a bona fide idiot who probably didn't even understand that her actions were inviting criminal liability.  By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.  This doesn't technically exonerate them, but absolutely NOTHING has been brought to light that would implicate them.  Given that much higher probability scenarios went uninvestigated and given the obvious misconduct of Portugese authorities, people should refrain from making allegations against the McCanns and their travel companions unless and until substantive evidence is brought to bear in support of such allegations. 

well educated and sohisticated does not equal much in this case

most wild animals DONT leave their babies alone, why is that?

ummmmmmmmm..because of predators

either way, if they are guilty of a crime or not

well educated does not equal - having COMMON SENSE 

[ldstlou]

That's a very good question and one that I would like to have the answer to.  Why so many spin doctors and why right from the start.

Makes me wonder if Kate really did call Skye news before the police.  I don't think this is normal to hire all these top of the line PR people and have to wonder why.  Don't think I have ever seen this done before.  Wassup with it?

And who is paying for all this and why?

.

AAAAHHHH...could it simply be, a lesson learned from Aruba?
Man, I am starting to feel like I am reading at hate sites, sounds like the same stuff they claimed about Beth and the "Fab 7".
Does anyone truely believe these heartbroken parents drugged their own kids? And show me one credible source so far that would allow for me to believe Maddy cried for 90 minutes, or they have her hair and fluids and all this other hogwash that has been stated. If the PLE had that kind of evidence, the McCann's would be in jail right now.
In the meantime, who is looking for the creep who abducted her?

[robots]

By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.


bonds of kinship ??  perhaps not

bonds ?? perhaps so

[robots]

That's a very good question and one that I would like to have the answer to.  Why so many spin doctors and why right from the start.

Makes me wonder if Kate really did call Skye news before the police.  I don't think this is normal to hire all these top of the line PR people and have to wonder why.  Don't think I have ever seen this done before.  Wassup with it?

And who is paying for all this and why?

.

AAAAHHHH...could it simply be, a lesson learned from Aruba?
Man, I am starting to feel like I am reading at hate sites, sounds like the same stuff they claimed about Beth and the "Fab 7".
Does anyone truely believe these heartbroken parents drugged their own kids? And show me one credible source so far that would allow for me to believe Maddy cried for 90 minutes, or they have her hair and fluids and all this other hogwash that has been stated. If the PLE had that kind of evidence, the McCann's would be in jail right now.
In the meantime, who is looking for the creep who abducted her?

see, the problem is with the ONE fact that the parents can not get away from and that is

The CHILDREN were left unattended

when you have people that do that, it does give you a HINT of how they deal and approach
other things in their lives.

careless, selfish, stupid,  come to mind for me 

[SteveDinMD]

That's a very good question and one that I would like to have the answer to.  Why so many spin doctors and why right from the start.

Makes me wonder if Kate really did call Skye news before the police.  I don't think this is normal to hire all these top of the line PR people and have to wonder why.  Don't think I have ever seen this done before.  Wassup with it?

And who is paying for all this and why?

.

AAAAHHHH...could it simply be, a lesson learned from Aruba?
Man, I am starting to feel like I am reading at hate sites, sounds like the same stuff they claimed about Beth and the "Fab 7".
Does anyone truely believe these heartbroken parents drugged their own kids? And show me one credible source so far that would allow for me to believe Maddy cried for 90 minutes, or they have her hair and fluids and all this other hogwash that has been stated. If the PLE had that kind of evidence, the McCann's would be in jail right now.
In the meantime, who is looking for the creep who abducted her?

see, the problem is with the ONE fact that the parents can not get away from and that is

The CHILDREN were left unattended

when you have people that do that, it does give you a HINT of how they deal and approach
other things in their lives.

careless, selfish, stupid,  come to mind for me 

Remember; there are different cultural norms at play here with respect to parental due dilligence.  Approaches to child care are different in many parts of Europe.  Those of us with experience living in American urban areas will tend to derive a different threat assessment than those accustomed to rural european settings with little incidence of violence.  Violence, unfortunately, penetrates ever further into the fabric of human life as mobility increases worldwide.  I'm sure the McCanns dearly wish they had that decision to make all over again, and that they would act differently given a second chance.  This doesn't change the fact that someone abducted their daughter. 

[SteveDinMD]

By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.


bonds of kinship ??  perhaps not

bonds ?? perhaps so

bonds sufficient to induce implicate themselves in a murder?? Overseas???  VERY UNLIKELY.  As always, the burden of proof lies with him making the allegation.  I have an open mind.  Offer one specific reason why their Tapas companions would assist the McCanns in covering up their daughter's homicide, and I'll give it all due consideration. 

[robots]

By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.


bonds of kinship ??  perhaps not

bonds ?? perhaps so

bonds sufficient to induce implicate themselves in a murder?? Overseas???  VERY UNLIKELY.  As always, the burden of proof lies with him making the allegation.  I have an open mind.  Offer one specific reason why their Tapas companions would assist the McCanns in covering up their daughter's homicide, and I'll give it all due consideration. 

i dont have specifics
i can give you reasons,
1. $$$$$$$
2. blackmail
3. sometimes things just get out of hand, in the same way of the Natalee case

for example. if k2 brothers raped Natalee with joran and others BUT did not kill her
they are involved deep enough to keep their mouths shut. and if they open their mouths now
they implicate themselves..

lets say one of the tapas 9 helped in some way, then helped a little more and then a little more..they are in so deep now... better to just shut up at this point

did the tapas people know each other before they went on this vacation ????

[robots]

That's a very good question and one that I would like to have the answer to.  Why so many spin doctors and why right from the start.

Makes me wonder if Kate really did call Skye news before the police.  I don't think this is normal to hire all these top of the line PR people and have to wonder why.  Don't think I have ever seen this done before.  Wassup with it?

And who is paying for all this and why?

.

AAAAHHHH...could it simply be, a lesson learned from Aruba?
Man, I am starting to feel like I am reading at hate sites, sounds like the same stuff they claimed about Beth and the "Fab 7".
Does anyone truely believe these heartbroken parents drugged their own kids? And show me one credible source so far that would allow for me to believe Maddy cried for 90 minutes, or they have her hair and fluids and all this other hogwash that has been stated. If the PLE had that kind of evidence, the McCann's would be in jail right now.
In the meantime, who is looking for the creep who abducted her?

see, the problem is with the ONE fact that the parents can not get away from and that is

The CHILDREN were left unattended

when you have people that do that, it does give you a HINT of how they deal and approach
other things in their lives.

careless, selfish, stupid,  come to mind for me 

Remember; there are different cultural norms at play here with respect to parental due dilligence.  Approaches to child care are different in many parts of Europe.  Those of us with experience living in American urban areas will tend to derive a different threat assessment than those accustomed to rural european settings with little incidence of violence.  Violence, unfortunately, penetrates ever further into the fabric of human life as mobility increases worldwide.  I'm sure the McCanns dearly wish they had that decision to make all over again, and that they would act differently given a second chance.  This doesn't change the fact that someone abducted their daughter. 

yea yea yea,, i know. i have heard that a zillion times

CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, blah blah blah
that DOG doesnt hunt.

never has, never will

they were BABIES, 2 and 3 years old

[robots]

would the parents leave A million dollars in a room UNLOCKED ?


cultural differences...............pftttttttttttttt


my guess is NO, they would not

the dog is DEAD, cant hunt, wont hunt, its dead

[robots]

1. lets leave the babies alone
2. lets leave the door unlocked
3. lets go check on the kids, by standing outside the door and listening to them... AND BY THE WAY, what the hell does that accomplish, honestly
if you stand outside of the door and dont hear anything, what does that tell you ?

are they sleeping
are they hurt and knocked out from falling
are they dead
are they even in there

its a LOAD of BULL CRAP

oh and then to top it off, lets go drink 58 bottles of wine

ok, im exagerating on the 58 bottles but the point is made

what exactly is THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE?

1. is it to leave them unattended

or is it to

2. go get smashed but be nearby

or is it

3. all of the above

OR is it something difference


WARNING..they should not sell it, cause i aint buying it 

[SteveDinMD]

The best suspect for an accomplice is whoever "listened at the door"-O'Brien or Oldfield. If there was an accidental death, M could have been moved to O or O's room. The police did not search the other rooms. There was time for her to be moved.
Perhaps the police could search this room for missed clues.

Maggie: 

Yes, and the best crop of potential accomplices is always drawn from among a suspect's acquaintances.  The only problem here is that there has been proffered absolutely no cogent reason for anyone in the McCanns' party (or anyone else for that matter) to render assistance in covering up a homicide.  Would YOU do that, even for your closest friend?  I would never, and it's difficult for me to imagine anyone else doing so.  Why would they?  What bond of evil would have to exist in order to tie such accomplices together?  The Portugese answers are:  "They're foreigners!" and  "They're friends from the U.K.!"  Such "reasoning" is beneath the dignity of being described as "logic."  They're but the mindless chants of moronic "homers."  Moreover, the theory could have been put to rest with an immediate, thorough search of everybody's hotel rooms the night Madeline disappeared, but that wasn't done.  Searching now would be essentially worthless from a probative standpoint.  So the Portugese authorities now say with a straight face, "We can never know."  When listening to this self-serving nonesense, be sure to remember that the reason we can "never know" is ONLY on account of Portugese ineptitude. 

the problem is, that the fact remains that PEOPLE all over the world have "HELPED" their friends out of all kinds of bad situations...
there was a case just a awhile ago where a COP killed the pregnat girlfriend and the COP then called another woman friend to help him get rid of the body..
this was the case where the little boy said "mommy is in the RUG"

it happens all the time, because YOU or most people wouldnt Help a "FRIEND" doesnt mean it doesnt happen

"family" are constantly helping other family members move bodies

perhaps some in the tapas group were like family

 

The woman who helped the police officer dispose of his murdered girlfriend is a bona fide idiot who probably didn't even understand that her actions were inviting criminal liability.  By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.  This doesn't technically exonerate them, but absolutely NOTHING has been brought to light that would implicate them.  Given that much higher probability scenarios went uninvestigated and given the obvious misconduct of Portugese authorities, people should refrain from making allegations against the McCanns and their travel companions unless and until substantive evidence is brought to bear in support of such allegations. 

i agree, she was an idiot.
however she knew what she was doing helping someone move a dead body.
unless you have the IQ of a ROCK, then you know there are implications to moving a MURDERED DEAD BODY

and yet, i would say the parents that left their BABIES unattended are also TOTAL IDIOTS

absolutle IDIOTS. how old are the twins ?  the missing girl was not even 4 years old

on the scale of idiocy, they are an an 11 out of A possible 10

Actually, I'm not sure her IQ exceeds that of a rock, and there are many people out there with similarly limited intellectual gifts who simply don't understand the legal concepts surrounding criminal liability.  I know; I've personally seen them in court.  One example I can give is a couple I watched in-person stand trial for shoplifting.  The accused couple -- a man and his girlfriend -- went shopping with the girlfriend's baby and a female friend of the girlfriend.  During their shopping trip, the man was carrying his girlfriend's diaper bag.  While in one particular store, the girlfriend's female friend took items of clothing from various racks in the store and placed them in the diaper bag.  She then left the store with the girlfriend and the girlfriend's baby.  A few minutes later, the man left the store carrying the diaper bag without paying for the items inside.  He was promptly arrested as he made his way to the parking lot.  When his girlfriend tried to intervene, she was arrested, too.  Her female friend fled the scene and wasn't charged.  

This was a slam-dunk case of shoplifting, but the accused couple genuinely considered themselves to be innocent and offered a peculiar defense.  According to their novel theory, the man committed no crime because he neither owned the diaper bag nor personally put anything in it, nor, he claimed, was it his place to object to anyone else doing so.  The girlfriend claimed innocence because though she owned the diaper bag, she hadn't been personally carrying it, hadn't put any of the merchandise inside, and hadn't even been present when her boyfriend carried the bag out of the store.  Finally, they considered the female friend to be innocent because, though she placed merchandise in the diaper bag, she neither owned the bag nor carried it out of the store, so she couldn't be held responsible for whatever happened to the bag or the merchendise inside.  They were genuinely shocked when they were instantly pronounced guilty.  It never occurred to them that their collective actions constituted a transparent criminal conspiracy.  I imagine they considered themselves geniuses for having discovered a "loophole in the system."  Anyway, I'm pretty certain this was the kind of thinking that led that foolish woman to assist in disposing of the murdered woman's remains.  This kind of mentality is out there, but not among the Tapas Group.  They would require a more substantive reason to associate themselves with criminal activity.  

[robots]

This was a slam-dunk case of shoplifting, but the accused couple genuinely considered themselves to be innocent and offered a peculiar defense.  According to their novel theory, the man committed no crime because he neither owned the diaper bag nor personally put anything in it, nor, he claimed, was it his place to object to anyone else doing so.  The girlfriend claimed innocence because though she owned the diaper bag, she hadn't been personally carrying it, hadn't put any of the merchandise inside, and hadn't even been present when her boyfriend carried the bag out of the store.  Finally, they considered the female friend to be innocent because, though she placed merchandise in the diaper bag, she neither owned the bag nor carried it out of the store, so she couldn't be held responsible for whatever happened to the bag or the merchendise inside.  They were genuinely shocked when they were instantly pronounced guilty.  It never occurred to them that their collective actions constituted a transparent criminal conspiracy.  I imagine they considered themselves geniuses for having discovered a "loophole in the system."  Anyway, I'm pretty certain this was the kind of thinking that led that foolish woman to assist in disposing of the murdered woman's remains.  This kind of mentality is out there, but not among the Tapas Group.  They would require a more substantive reason to associate themselves with criminal activity. 


and you know this because

1. you know all of the people in the tapas group ?
2. you are assuming ?
3. you are guessing ?

because, as i understand it, other people in the tapas group left their children alone
also and one of them was throwing up, 
now,is this also part of the CULTURAL DIFFERENCE

leave sick kids home and go out drinking

hmmm..doctors know the situation with vomit and choking i would hope with young children

well, most do
evidently some in the tapas 9 group DID NOT

[SteveDinMD]

1. lets leave the babies alone
2. lets leave the door unlocked
3. lets go check on the kids, by standing outside the door and listening to them... AND BY THE WAY, what the hell does that accomplish, honestly
if you stand outside of the door and dont hear anything, what does that tell you ?

are they sleeping
are they hurt and knocked out from falling
are they dead
are they even in there

its a LOAD of BULL CRAP

oh and then to top it off, lets go drink 58 bottles of wine

ok, im exagerating on the 58 bottles but the point is made

what exactly is THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE?

1. is it to leave them unattended

or is it to

2. go get smashed but be nearby

or is it

3. all of the above

OR is it something difference


WARNING..they should not sell it, cause i aint buying it 

First, who says the door was unlocked?  I doubt it.  I can't even remember being in a hotel anywhere on earth where I could leave my room with the door unlocked -- even if I wanted to.  The doors to my many, many hotel rooms over the years all locked automatically.  That Mark Warner resort seems modern and upscale, so why should it be any different?  

Second, there is no credible evidence to suggest that the McCanns and/or their companions were seriously intoxicated.  Remember; this was a story leaked to the press by the (corrupt) Portugese police, who also leaked reports that the McCanns and their friends were all sexual swingers.  These were but transparent attempts on the part of the authorities to discredit the McCanns and thereby make the possiblity that they harmed their own child more credible to the public.  

Third, I too find the listening at the door story peculiar, and is the one thing I see that directs even the slightest suspicion on members of the group.  

Last, why would the McCanns leave their children in the room?  Here's a list of possible reasons (not that I necessarily agree with them):  

1)  The children were already asleep, so the McCanns were reluctant to wake them.  

2)  It was already the children's bedtime, so taking them to child care would upset their sleeping patterns.  

3)  Leaving them alseep in their hotel room to have dinner was not so different than leaving them alseep in their rooms back home while having a beer with the neighbors on the patio.  

4)  They wouldn't be left unattended for so long that they could get themselves into trouble.  Besides, they'd be asleep, which is when they're least at risk.  

5)  Random violence against children was so rare in the McCanns' and their friends' experience, that the possiblity might not even have crossed their minds.  

The McCanns were, of course, wrong in their analysis, but perhaps not so egregiously so given their socio-cultural context.  

[SteveDinMD]

By contrast, members of the Tapas Group are all well-educated and sophisticated people, with no bonds of kinship to the McCanns.


bonds of kinship ??  perhaps not

bonds ?? perhaps so

bonds sufficient to induce implicate themselves in a murder?? Overseas???  VERY UNLIKELY.  As always, the burden of proof lies with him making the allegation.  I have an open mind.  Offer one specific reason why their Tapas companions would assist the McCanns in covering up their daughter's homicide, and I'll give it all due consideration. 

i dont have specifics
i can give you reasons,
1. $$$$$$$
2. blackmail
3. sometimes things just get out of hand, in the same way of the Natalee case

for example. if k2 brothers raped Natalee with joran and others BUT did not kill her
they are involved deep enough to keep their mouths shut. and if they open their mouths now
they implicate themselves..

lets say one of the tapas 9 helped in some way, then helped a little more and then a little more..they are in so deep now... better to just shut up at this point

did the tapas people know each other before they went on this vacation ????

If you don't have specifics, you have nothing upon which to base an accusation.  In the case of the Kalpoe brothers, they were implicated right from the beginning, so they were well motivated by self-interest to aid in the cover-up.