Madeleine McCann Missing-Praia Da Luz, Portugal 3/05/07 #1

[Rob]

Steve- last week it emerged that Oldfield saw Maddy at 7 pm or there abouts. He appears to claim that he stopped at the flat and saw Kate getting the kids ready for bed.

This seems to be the latest in the evening that anyone has claimed to have seen Maddy. 

[NYC_lover]

Rob, Steve, MuffyBee, Anna and Tamikosmom?

What do u all think, what there is happened, with this little girl?

NYC_lover- I have always believed she was abducted. What do you think.

Rob, I go agree, but I have no idea who been really guilty in this mystery in this case.
I think we can make many opinions, but we can never come after all of this.
And I don't think this case would be soon not solved . I just hope so. 

[Tamikosmom]

If the Times article that cites no writer ... no source ... is to be believed ... Chief Inspector Amaral has been fired for his public allegations regarding the close relationship between the British investigators and the McCanns.  The Portuguese authorities have to be given credit ... no time was wasted in acting on this indiscretion ... this discretion of disregarding Portuguese law that forbids those within an ongoing investigation from speaking to the press.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++


OCTOBER 2, 2007

Madeleine McCann detective attacks UK police
By Aislinn Simpson in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 2:49pm BST 02/10/2007

Chief Inspector Amaral, who heads the Policia Judiciaria in the nearby town of Portimao and is himself under investigation for allegedly concealing evidence about an alleged assault on the mother of another missing child, was speaking to the daily newspaper Diario de Noticias.

"The British police have only been working on that which the McCann couple want them to and which is most convenient for them," he said.
 
"The have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are formal suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/02/wmaddy202.xml


OCTOBER 3, 2007

NO SOURCES CITED

From The Times
Madeleine McCann detective sacked after outburst
October 3, 2007

The Portuguese detective leading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was sacked yesterday after he accused British police of helping her parents to cover up their role in their daughter’s death.
 
Chief Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who has been the driving force behind briefings that the couple were responsible for the disappearance of their daughter, was dismissed from his position as director of the Polícia Judiciária in Portimão and demoted to the rank of inspector.

The detective was summoned to a meeting with Alipio Ribeiro, the national director of the Polícia Judiciária, in Faro, after telling a Portuguese newspaper that British police were helping to protect Kate and Gerry McCann.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2577284.ece

[SteveDinMD]

There have been several time lines posted in these thread, if that is helpful.

Page two has a photo reported to be 1:30pm the same day May 3rd. About 8 hours elapse till Madeleine is reported missing. The time stamp is from her mothers camera. First question is can the time stamp be changed? Second question is there anyone outside the diner circle that saw her in that time period? Like another guest or staff?

The 1:30 PM timestamp correlates to 2:30 PM local time in Portugal.  If the image was taken directly from the camera's memory card, special methods and equipment would have been necessary to modify the timestamp.  There have also been reports that Madeline was seen in the company of her father at the resort's Paraiso restaurant shortly before 6:00 PM local time.  This was supposedly captured on surveillance cameras.  The McCanns and their friends had dinner together beginning sometime after 8:00 PM.  Mr. McCann claims that he checked on the children at around 9:00 PM.  Dr. Oldfied, a friend of the McCann's, claims to have checked on the McCann children at around 9:30 PM.  Mrs. McCann reported Madeline missing at around 10:00 PM.  When interviewed later, Oldfield claimed that he didn't actually know whether or not Madeline was already missing by the time he checked on her and her siblings, since he didn't actually SEE the children.  Rather than look in on them, Oldfield claimed that he merely listened at the door. 

Thanks for looking this up. It seems to tighten the time line down to just a few hours 6-8pm, prior to dinner. It also shows they considered feeding the children prior to there expected dinner arrangements which would be normal if you didn't bring children to dinner. Just should have been a sitter with all of them.

The shortness of the timeline strongly mitigates against belief in the McCanns' culpability, especially considering that they were at a resort, in a foreign country, without transportation.  In that short window, the McCanns would have had to have both caused Madeline's death AND disposed of her remains, which is improbable.  The Portugese police understand this, which is why they've repeatedly tried to fit accomplices into their "theory" of the crime:  1) Murat, 2) the Dutch incenerator operator, 3) The McCanns' holiday companions, 4) owners of a British registered yacht, etc.  The only problem is that for there to be an accomplice, there must also exist a REASON for the accomplice to assist in the crime or its coverup, but such is lacking.  In light of all this, abduction by a stranger is the likeliest scenario, but one which the Portugese authorities refuse to investigate or consider. 

[Tamikosmom]

Rob - tell me more about this doctor, I haven't followed the case close enough.  Was this someone that was on vacation with their group?

<snipped>

His name is Doctor O'Brien if I am not mistaken. He is the person alleged to have been wiretapped and self implicated. He denies all charges and implications. He insists he is innocent and stayed in Portugal to offer moral support for the McCanns, his good friends. The McCanns appear to be 10 -15 years younger than the Doctor. He seems to be a mentor to Gerry or Kate, not sure which one. All Doctors have mentors.

<snipped>

Hi Robots

I bumped the above post.  Rob has provided the forum with some information that implies a possible close friendship between Doctor O'Brien and the McCanns.

Articles that cite unidentifed sources allege which state that Jane Russell ... O'Brien's partner ... claims that she observed a man carrying a sleep child in the resort area that evening ... a child with the same pajamas as Madeleine was reportly wearing.

Robot ... I believe .... in the process of ellimination ... the friends of the McCanns should also have been an immediate focus of the investigation.

Janet

+++++++++++

The three crucial hours before the alarm was raised that Madeleine was missing
By NEIL SEARS
Last updated at 15:30pm on 8th September 2007

Another member of the group, Jane Tanner, took a turn around ten minutes later. She has told police that as she returned to the bar she saw a dark-haired man aged around 35 carrying a child. Again, she thought nothing of it.

A further detail from the evening is that the McCanns' friend Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, is understood to have left the table at some time after 9pm, to attend to his own ill daughter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=480632&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART


Madeleine McCann's parents told not to leave
By Richard Edwards in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 3:10am BST 24/08/2007

Dr O’Brien was dining with the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared and spent part of the evening away from the table looking after his own daughter, who was sick. It is understood he shared duties with his partner Jane Tanner ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/nmaddy221.xml

[MsVada]

OCTOBER 2, 2007

Madeleine McCann detective attacks UK police
By Aislinn Simpson in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 2:49pm BST 02/10/2007

Chief Inspector Amaral, who heads the Policia Judiciaria in the nearby town of Portimao and is himself under investigation for allegedly concealing evidence about an alleged assault on the mother of another missing child, was speaking to the daily newspaper Diario de Noticias.

"The British police have only been working on that which the McCann couple want them to and which is most convenient for them," he said.
"The have only investigated tips and information developed and worked on for the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are formal suspects in the death of their daughter Madeleine."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/02/wmaddy202.xml


Since when do investigators only do what a parent wants in a missing persons case?
 

[Rob]

Janet- I have discovered that there is another doctor involved. Well, not sure how involved, but he was questioned by British LE back in England.

I do not know his name. He proclaims his innocences and this is the person I *thought* was the mentor to the McCanns.

This is the doctor that is 10 - 15 years older than the McCanns. He was questioned in relation to the hire car and being a possible user of that car.

It also appears that he departed Praia Da Luz on the scheduled date. He did not stay after Maddy went missing.

I do not think he is involved. The PLE does not seem to have any interest in him at this time.

[pdh3]

This case seems to be spinning out of control. No one really appears to be in charge of the overall investigation, and there are all these little factions forming. What a disaster.
And underneath all the snipping and accusations and rumors is a sweet little girl who is missing, and she really needs to be found.
I wish someone in authority could just focus on Madeleine, and really care about what became of her that night.

[MuffyBee]

This case seems to be spinning out of control. No one really appears to be in charge of the overall investigation, and there are all these little factions forming. What a disaster.
And underneath all the snipping and accusations and rumors is a sweet little girl who is missing, and she really needs to be found.
I wish someone in authority could just focus on Madeleine, and really care about what became of her that night.

[NYC_lover]

Top Madeleine Cop Sacked After Outburst
Updated: 20:22, Tuesday October 02, 2007

The Portuguese detective heading the search for Madeleine McCann has reportedly been sacked after accusing her parents of manipulating the British police.
Sacked: Gonçalo AmaralSky News sources said Gonçalo Amaral had been relieved of his duties as head of the regional Policia Judiciaria (PJ) in Portimao. He also ceases to head the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Sky News understands the directors of the PJ are upset with some of the statements he has made. Earlier, Mr Amaral accused Kate and Gerry McCann of calling the shots by identifying the lines of inquiry Leicestershire Police should take. He said British officers had overlooked the fact that the couple remain suspects. And he accused the McCanns of releasing new information each day to try to distract and confuse the inquiry.

Kate and Gerry McCannSky's Ian Woods said there was resentment among Portuguese police that they were being made out to be incompetent and "bumbling". He added that Mr Amaral was also under investigation following allegations he had put pressure on a suspect in a previous murder inquiry. He was one of five men charged over an alleged attack on Leonor Cipriano, whose nine-year-old daughter Joana vanished in September 2004. Mr Amaral broke his silence after it was reported that an anonymous email which had been sent to the Prince of Wales' website was being investigated by British police. The message suggested a disgruntled employee working at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz may have kidnapped the young girl.

Madeleine is still missingMr Amaral told Portuguese newspaper Diario De Noticias all current and former employees at the resort had been investigated. He said: "The British police have only worked on what the McCann couple want them to work on and what suits them." Speaking about the email lead, he added: "This situation has no credibility whatsoever for the Portuguese police. "British police have investigated tips and information worked on by the McCanns, forgetting that the couple are suspected of causing the death of their daughter Madeleine. "This story about kidnapping for revenge is another fact worked on by the McCanns." The detective was also forced to defend a two-hour lunch break with police spokesman Olegario Sousa at a restaurant in Portimao. The men were spotted drinking what looked like white wine and whisky as the McCanns flew to Berlin to publicise the case.

[NYC_lover]

'Let's Get Out There And Find Madeleine'
Updated: 13:02, Wednesday October 03, 2007

The McCann family spokesman has urged Portuguese police to "get back out there" and find Madeleine after a top cop was pulled off the investigation.
 
The McCanns and Mr MitchellSpeaking after the dismissal of Portuguese police chief Gonçalo Amaral, Clarence Mitchell told Sky News the move should "refocus" and "re-energise" the hunt for the missing girl. "We hope this will help to refocus the search for Madeleine," he said.

"Let's get back out there and we hope whoever takes over from Mr Amaral will re-energise the search for Madeleine."
Mr Mitchell denied claims from Portuguese police that he was running a campaign to discredit them.

"It's ridiculous to suggest we are running some kind of strategy like that," he said. "There is no strategy. We are not running anything with Leicestershire Police.

Five months - and still no sign of her"There is nothing else going on, I can assure you of that. That's the truth. To suggest anything else is ridiculous. "I am simply here to speak on behalf of the McCann family."

Mr Mitchell was speaking five months to the day after Madeleine disappeared from a holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz, shortly before her fourth birthday. Asked how Kate and Gerry McCann were feeling, Mr Mitchell said: "It's just another day without Madeleine - calendar anniversaries really mean nothing much at the moment."

Mr Amaral was dismissed as head of the regional Policia Judiciaria (PJ) in Portimao after accusing the McCanns of manipulating British police. Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt described Mr Amaral as a "controversial figure".

[Kiwi]

Steve- last week it emerged that Oldfield saw Maddy at 7 pm or there abouts. He appears to claim that he stopped at the flat and saw Kate getting the kids ready for bed.

This seems to be the latest in the evening that anyone has claimed to have seen Maddy. 

Steve and Rob thank you for spending the time to tighten up the pre-time line. If it all holds true, then Maddy was fine just prior to the parents going to dinner. Every thing from the dinner to today just seems to get crazier. Not to comforting for a resolution. All the recent comments have been well thought out. Too bad you all aren't running this pretty secret investigation in some room in Portugal.

[NYC_lover]

Kate's Tears For Missing Madeleine
Updated: 18:38, Thursday October 04, 2007

Madeleine McCann's mother has told how she cries every day for her missing daughter.
 
Kate McCannSpeaking for the first time since she was declared a suspect in the disappearance, Kate McCann spoke of the pain of not knowing what happened to her.

The GP said: "I've had days when, if I wasn't crying about Madeleine, I was crying from the letters and messages people have sent to us. It has helped so much."

The mother-of-three said her lowest moment was the night her eldest daughter went missing in Portugal on May 3.

She said: "A lot has happened since then. Sometimes, the most trivial of things can bring you crashing down."

Mrs McCann also revealed she and husband Gerry are trying to give their twins, Amelie and Sean, as normal life as possible.

She told the Leicester Mercury: "Something carries you through. We have Sean and Amelie of course. We are there for them.

"We tell them that she is missing and that everyone is looking for her. And that's the truth."

The couple have thanked the people of Rothley and Leicestershire as a whole for their continued support.

Mr McCann said so many well-wishers had written to them that, until recently, they had to collect their mail from the post office in their car.

There would be three crates of letters and cards awaiting collection every day, he said.

Mr McCann added: "We want to increase awareness, get back to basics if you like. Target specific areas with pictures and billboards and messages. We want to refocus the coverage."

[vms]

Desperate Days: The Madeleine McCann Mystery

A behind-the-scenes look at the tragedy: The McCanns' battle to keep the search for their missing daughter in the public eye, the truth and rumors surrounding the case – and new insight into Kate McCann

THURSDAY OCTOBER 04, 2007 12:00 PM EDT

Link to Article

[Rob]

http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal048.flv


http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal049.flv


http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal045.flv


http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal050.flv


http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal051.flv


http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal057.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/al.....gal058.flv


Videos of Mark Warner  / Praia Da Luz courtesy of Ellibean - UK Mirror poster who just returned from Portugal.

I will view these a little closer and make some screen capture over the next few days.

Requests are always welcome.

[klaasend]

Rob - the links to the videos aren't working for me?

[Rob]

Rob - the links to the videos aren't working for me?

Klaas-
I apologize. Here is the link to the thread. The links work for me.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19671

[Rob]

Maybe we should copy the files. That kinda stuff has a habit of disappearing.

I'll copy Carpe.

[Rob]

MADELEINE: POLICE WANTED TO LOCK UP MUM

Saturday October 6,2007
By Martin Evans in Praia da Luz

KATE McCann was just hours away from being locked up in a police cell, it emerged yesterday.

Detectives who interrogated the mother of missing Madeleine for more than 11 hours wanted her put behind bars after she refused to answer key questions.

The head of the Portuguese investigation team, who was sacked earlier this week, called on the public prosecutor to remand Kate in custody on a charge of abandoning her children.

But the prosecutor refused, allowing Kate and her husband Gerry to return home even though they had been declared official suspects in the case.

The revelation that Kate came so close to being jailed was made in Portugal by the Expresso newspaper.

It came as further details emerged about the dismissal of the chief investigator, Goncalo Amaral.

It was first understood that he was sacked for criticising British police,  claiming the McCanns were manipulating them.

But now it is being alleged there was also friction between Mr Amaral and the prosecutor, Mr Jose Magalhaes e Menezes, over the handling of the case.

On September 6, Mr Amaral ordered Kate to attend Portimao Policia Judiciaria headquarters after he learned that the McCanns were planning to return to Britain.

There, police asked Kate for the first time if she had killed her daughter. She was also invited to explain how some forensic evidence had been discovered in the family’s apartment and hire car.

It is understood she refused to answer, infuriating Mr Amaral and his colleagues.

A source in the Policia Judiciaria said: “Amaral wanted to remand her in custody but the prosecutor refused.”

Kate was then allowed to leave the police station around 1am but was forced to return later that morning, when she was booed by a large crowd of onlookers.

Kate and her husband Gerry, now back at home in Rothley, Leicestershire, have insisted all along that they have nothing to hide.

There have only been three official suspects – or arguidos  – in the hunt for Madeleine.

The first given this status, on May 15, was British ex-patriate Robert Murat after a search of his mother’s villa 150 yards from the apartment where Madeleine vanished.

He was questioned again on July 10,  but claims he has not spoken to police for months and is believed to have been discounted from inquiries.

Police treated Kate and Gerry McCann as witnesses helping in the investigation as soon as Madeleine went missing.

Kate, a 39-year-old GP, was officially questioned for the first time the day after her daughter vanished.

It was not until the end of August that police began viewing them as suspects rather than victims.

By September the police investigation was focusing on the McCanns. On September 6 Kate faced the gruelling 11-hour interrogation without husband Gerry.

The next day, Kate and Gerry were both declared arguidos.

[sb]

The firing of Amaral is equivalent to what would have happened if Van Der Straten or Jacobs had been fired in Aruba. A shill for the locals who was trying to pin the crime on the innocent to cover for the guilty. That guy obviously had that crime pinned on the parents from the start.

The MOST OBVIOUS conclusion is that some unknown person took her, but that reflects badly on Portugal and has potential to open up a huge can of worms just like in Aruba. You don't have quite the coverup angle in this case, no JVDS to protect, but the Portuguese have someone or something that they would rather not open up to public scrutiny. An international pedophile ring? Kind of like the bangbus/Mr.Pink/Lion's Den angle? Most likely scenario. I don't think the parents are guilty of anything but incredible self-centered stupidity.