Lively Case Discussion #621 5/15 - 5/16/2007

[Mere]

GEL....I think we had this article at the time it was written...but reading it now just makes your heart sink....everything was in place for a cover-up and they certainly pulled in all the favors....I still wonder why our government was not more out-spoken and demanding...they knew this....and I guess that Beth and Dave found out early on....

[San]

Here is the quote of the day from my nephew.  I asked him when he goes down stairs to bring the chicken cutlets up.  He turned to me and said Aunt San do you know how hard I worked today.  Do you know all the talking I did .  I turned and said why don't you try shutting that big mouth .

   

I hate it when my kids tell me that they have talked to blah, blah, blah, blah all day and blah, blah, blah and I had to blah, blah, blah and deal with this blah, blah, blah.  Oh, yes, life is hard when you have to talk your way through it, just ask Joran.

This kid talks so much that the teachers thank him for being good in class today .

[friend of monkeys]

I remember when the Sloot home was searched a computer, or computers were taken away.  Some, including Paulus made a point of saying those had already been returned.  Big hairy deal!  How long does it take to get an exact copy of a hard drive?

Same situation at the Kalpoes.  They spend an hour at the house, pay special attention to a laptop and a cell phone then they leave.  They could easily have a complete record of what is on that laptop in less than an hour.

No telling what kind of juicy info they are tracking down right now.....

I do not believe their visit to the Kalpoe house had anything to do with cell phones, etc.

What do you think...?

hey Mere----u didn't ask me...but....I think that it was more procedural...
taking journals (unexpextedly)........who knows what they were writing..thinking...i keep a journal..lol.....depending on who found it...well...i just expect it is mine until i am dead...then if anyone cares to read it ...fine u know?   Maybe things they wrote about Joran...how he wazs screwing them..???  Wouldn't expect the cops to come in and snag it....so long after the crime.....that and to verify the stories (lies) from boys and mama Kalpoe........maybe.......and yeah...see what sites they go to....criminals do get careless.....

certainly not for forensics....we all know she was not in that house. of course they went to jorans.....daddy could give a shit about the noise...Anita was away...only concern if little sloot...love to hear his version of events that nite

[San]

GEL....I think we had this article at the time it was written...but reading it now just makes your heart sink....everything was in place for a cover-up and they certainly pulled in all the favors....I still wonder why our government was not more out-spoken and demanding...they knew this....and I guess that Beth and Dave found out early on....

I agree Mere.  I am very disappointed in our government and they did nothing to help this family.  They let this POS island win.  JMO.

[blah]

Blah, no disrespect for I know you know your IT stuff but I agree with Easy that this being the Dutch, they do have equipment that can ghost a hard drive. Remember the dutch lead the world in hacking  

wreck - just a note to those who support spybot for I used to recommend it too, until Anna sent me data demonstrating it is a corrupt app now and exposes your PC to remote usage too !!!! It happened to me, had to uninstall and reload my desktop entirely, it even rendered my CD-ROM useless.

I highly recommend AVG Software, it cleans adware even within the registry. I also highly recommend McAfee's newest top level security suite. It even has a wireless security network component, a 3 user license for the whole tomato is only $99 - quite a good value.

theres a big difference between ghosting a harddrive and recovering data that was deleted and/or overwritten.

[greeneyedlady]

GEL....I think we had this article at the time it was written...but reading it now just makes your heart sink....everything was in place for a cover-up and they certainly pulled in all the favors....I still wonder why our government was not more out-spoken and demanding...they knew this....and I guess that Beth and Dave found out early on....

It was planned very early on from the way it looks.There must be alott of higher-ups involved than we know or surely this case wouldn't be so hard to solve.JMO

[wreck]

Blah, no disrespect for I know you know your IT stuff but I agree with Easy that this being the Dutch, they do have equipment that can ghost a hard drive. Remember the dutch lead the world in hacking  

wreck - just a note to those who support spybot for I used to recommend it too, until Anna sent me data demonstrating it is a corrupt app now and exposes your PC to remote usage too !!!! It happened to me, had to uninstall and reload my desktop entirely, it even rendered my CD-ROM useless.

I highly recommend AVG Software, it cleans adware even within the registry. I also highly recommend McAfee's newest top level security suite. It even has a wireless security network component, a 3 user license for the whole tomato is only $99 - quite a good value.

Uh, I am not Easy but I did state the Dutch were leading thew ay in technology via Philips/LG at this point in time and the reason I use Trend.  It's a Dutch company and by the way, they do make the best full-spectrum paint in the world.  Now, let's see how good they are at doing "cold case" investigations.  They were slow on the uptake.  I hope that means they will have a big finale.

Thanks for the heads-up on Spybot! I used to be very wired-in at SWI (spywareinfo.com) , but have been side-tracked for many months (much like here). I have not seen any rumblings about Spybot there having changed. I too use AVG and have AVG Spyware installed as well. AD-Aware is coming out with a new version in June '07 -- I fear the Free Version will be watered down when this happens. The only postive thing is that IE is getting more secure and the spyware problem overall is getting better.

[Dayhiker]

.

From what I've been able to see Chinbeard was not Shango.

IIRC, Chinbeard was out of South Carolina. I think the poster himself said that.

Well, he said he was out of North Carolina but he gave himself up once when he mentioned Key West in conversation and when called on it, he had to come back and do some leg work, and claimed that his trip to Key West was on business.  He was more than one person as well and I cannot recall the name of the other one, but played an older man who was a pervert and stated Natalee probably died from strangulation in some kind of "fun" sex game.[/quote]


Thanks for clearing that up Tyler. Carolina was stuck in my head, just the wrong one. Yes, this did appear to be a game to this person and quite a few others who eventually found the favor of the blog meister, whose blog went into the toilet shortly thereafter.

[msmarple]

GEL - I also remember that article. In fact, I went to the current edition.

There's a story about the upcoming September election, presenting the pollution of San Nicols (from the refinery) as an issue.

There also is an online survey re. whether the 2 security guards' arrest was based on racial discrimination.

The Mathew case has been mentioned in nearly article I've seen there. I think he's sort of the Poster Boy for the blacks on the island.

San Nicols is the neighborhood near the refinery and is mostly (probably entirely) black residential.

The publication is not a daily, and may only be monthly if that.

So it does have an agenda. But one of its items is blasting the corruption of the current government.


http://www.savesannicolas.com/

[Dayhiker]

Hi monkeys.

It looks like Jamaica is not a very safe place either. I think I'd better stay out of the Caribbean and vacation in the USA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6657203.stm

Aruba can view their future in Jamaica.  This terrible triptych of drugs, poverty and crime will be their future if they do not stop the corruption now.

I believe they are already there AZLady, they have just been able to mask it up until now. Look at all the suspecious deaths that were uncovered bysome of the energetic monkeys here. Aruba has been running a scam on tourists for decades but now the truth is out.

[msmarple]

Oh - and should mention, it's in English. The San Nicols publication.

[Anna]

Hi monkeys.

It looks like Jamaica is not a very safe place either. I think I'd better stay out of the Caribbean and vacation in the USA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6657203.stm

Aruba can view their future in Jamaica.  This terrible triptych of drugs, poverty and crime will be their future if they do not stop the corruption now.

I believe they are already there AZLady, they have just been able to mask it up until now. Look at all the suspecious deaths that were uncovered bysome of the energetic monkeys here. Aruba has been running a scam on tourists for decades but now the truth is out.

But they advertised as otherwise.  One murder in the last twenty years, even.

Sounds like a case for class action suit for false advertising.  They intentionally misled tourists into thinking there was no crime until they woke up with strangers in their rooms going through their belongings!

LIARS!

.

[Dayhiker]

I remember when the Sloot home was searched a computer, or computers were taken away.  Some, including Paulus made a point of saying those had already been returned.  Big hairy deal!  How long does it take to get an exact copy of a hard drive?

Same situation at the Kalpoes.  They spend an hour at the house, pay special attention to a laptop and a cell phone then they leave.  They could easily have a complete record of what is on that laptop in less than an hour.

No telling what kind of juicy info they are tracking down right now.....

Someone correct me, but to do a "Forensic" search of a Hard drive -- a mere "copy" would not be sufficient. It would not show data that had been erased or "written over."

You're right Wreck. It would only copy the latest data. The original hard drive would contain remnants of old data that could be recovered.

I do believe there are hard drive duplicators available that essentially create a clone of the original hard drive.  There is specialized equipment needed for a forensic copy of a hard drive, but it is done all the time.

Thanks for that info Easy and all. I would think they would want the original in it's current prisitine form to make a case though, since the clone is only a snapshot of the hard disc at that time. If they gave the boys their computers back it seems they would be destroying their own evidence.

[greeneyedlady]

GEL - I also remember that article. In fact, I went to the current edition.

There's a story about the upcoming September election, presenting the pollution of San Nicols (from the refinery) as an issue.

There also is an online survey re. whether the 2 security guards' arrest was based on racial discrimination.

The Mathew case has been mentioned in nearly article I've seen there. I think he's sort of the Poster Boy for the blacks on the island.

San Nicols is the neighborhood near the refinery and is mostly (probably entirely) black residential.

The publication is not a daily, and may only be monthly if that.

So it does have an agenda. But one of its items is blasting the corruption of the current government.


http://www.savesannicolas.com/

I saw where he talks of the racial discrimination.He seems to know what's going on with that for sure.At least he isn't blaming Beth et al,but blaming Aruba Today and Bondia.

[Dayhiker]

Hi monkeys.

It looks like Jamaica is not a very safe place either. I think I'd better stay out of the Caribbean and vacation in the USA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6657203.stm

Aruba can view their future in Jamaica.  This terrible triptych of drugs, poverty and crime will be their future if they do not stop the corruption now.

I believe they are already there AZLady, they have just been able to mask it up until now. Look at all the suspecious deaths that were uncovered bysome of the energetic monkeys here. Aruba has been running a scam on tourists for decades but now the truth is out.

But they advertised as otherwise.  One murder in the last twenty years, even.

Sounds like a case for class action suit for false advertising.  They intentionally misled tourists into thinking there was no crime until they woke up with strangers in their rooms going through their belongings!

LIARS!

.

One very reason the Aruban hoteliers and government piled onto the cover-up. they didn't want their image tarnished though lawsuits. This is probably who is paying the Van der Sloots' legal bills, the hoteliers and their mafia investors.

[Tylergal]

.

From what I've been able to see Chinbeard was not Shango.

IIRC, Chinbeard was out of South Carolina. I think the poster himself said that.

Well, he said he was out of North Carolina but he gave himself up once when he mentioned Key West in conversation and when called on it, he had to come back and do some leg work, and claimed that his trip to Key West was on business.  He was more than one person as well and I cannot recall the name of the other one, but played an older man who was a pervert and stated Natalee probably died from strangulation in some kind of "fun" sex game.

Thanks for clearing that up Tyler. Carolina was stuck in my head, just the wrong one. Yes, this did appear to be a game to this person and quite a few others who eventually found the favor of the blog meister, whose blog went into the toilet shortly thereafter.[/quote]

Yes, the started banning his "real supporters" Left and Right.  He lost the crowd that brung him to the dance.  My DH was a big supporter of his site and went there because of its first intent, and found himself at odds with quite a bit once the Scubacrap was brought into the picture.  This happened earlier on than many realized.  He totally used his supporters to make himself appear worldly and he became a heap of compost in the Toto.

[Tamikosmom]

From the Jensen-Dvries interview:

PRdVries: Yes the police missed several changes to do things right: when they wanted to searche the house the door was opened by mr. Ben King, an assistent of the Procurements Gen. office.: the highest justice-office on the island and a friend of the family who wanted to support the VdSloots in these difficult times… So clearly the search of the house hadn’t been a surprise to the VdSloots. And the police had a warrant for the complete estate but a judge - Bob Wit - who was at the house as well said only Jorans room could be searched. These are things a Dutch crime-reporter is of course totaly astonnished about.

Ben King and Bob Witt both at house for the search. Where were they when the security guards were taken in? I am really getting tired of this Dutch-elite crap. It goes all the way to NL and the current investigation.

Spock ... there were no judges present when the security guards were detained and ... their residences searched ... only the prosecutor Karin Janssen who issued the warrant.  According to Dutch law ... the prosecutor can request a judge to be present.  In other words ... a judge is not obligated to be present.  Also ... there is no provision for the judge to reduce the scope of the search as outlined in the official warrant as the warrant is being exercised.  The judge is only there to assure that the warrant is carried out accordingly.

The problem in the Natalee Holloway case is not Dutch Law ... it is the flagrant disregard of Dutch Law.  Dutch law was manipulated to further an agenda ... an agenda to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the events encompassing that fateful morning.

Janet


CNN SUNDAY MORNING
Aired June 5, 2005 - 09:00 ET

DILMA ARENDS, REPORTER: Yes, we were part of a group of local reporters who received the tip since yesterday, and we were able to intercept a large caravan of local police officers who raided two homes in St. Nicholas (ph). The first one the whole group went there. They went into the house. Once they got out of the house they started checking two cars and then some police officers stayed at that house. We weren't able to see very well, but we saw the police detaining one person, handcuffing that person and a couple of officers stayed behind with that person and the caravan continued on to another house in downtown St. Nicholas and that's when they were joined by another local detective, who was accompanied by three FBI agents.

This operation was done by local police officers. And, I mean, they did the standard procedures. They knocked on the door. They told them -- they identified themselves, went into the house and start searching. As a matter of fact, there were two dogs barking. They even told the owners of he house or the inhabitants there to -- the residence there to keep the dogs calm. And it went pretty calm. I mean there was no resistance.

They immediately went in and they were accompanied by the person in charge, district attorney Karen Janssen. And they did a search and after half an hour or so came out with another man, also in handcuffs. While he was led out other agents stay there and combed the whole house and we saw them taking out bags of stuff. What they were, we don't know.


ASSOCIATED PRESS
7:13 a.m. June 7, 2005

Authorities searched the men's homes and impounded three vehicles, carrying away bags of items. Authorities said they had not found any of Holloway's belongings at the suspects' homes, but an eight-member team of FBI agents supporting the investigation was to help perform forensic testing.


Art. 110. Penal Law Code Book 2

1. The examining judge can, on the request of the district attorney and in the course of a judicial pre-inquest in his function as judge, search any place in order to confiscation.

Translation Credit: Ramm (BFN)

[Tylergal]

Hi monkeys.

It looks like Jamaica is not a very safe place either. I think I'd better stay out of the Caribbean and vacation in the USA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6657203.stm

Aruba can view their future in Jamaica.  This terrible triptych of drugs, poverty and crime will be their future if they do not stop the corruption now.

I believe they are already there AZLady, they have just been able to mask it up until now. Look at all the suspecious deaths that were uncovered bysome of the energetic monkeys here. Aruba has been running a scam on tourists for decades but now the truth is out.

But they advertised as otherwise.  One murder in the last twenty years, even.

Sounds like a case for class action suit for false advertising.  They intentionally misled tourists into thinking there was no crime until they woke up with strangers in their rooms going through their belongings!

LIARS!

.

You are absolutely correct on that, Anna, and I suspect that unbeknownst to us, Natalee's family is able to use much of our information (as we wish them to), in order to go forward with just such a suit.  I would expect the figures of the suit might make the figures of Deepak's pale in comparison.  Of course, they will have to settle for less, but suspect that Don Imus' suit against CBS will go forward accordingly, as it should.  I have never been a big Imus fan, but he certainly has grounds for litigation and a win and I think Beth & Dave have an even better chance of winning much larger, perhaps bringing Aruba to its tourism knees.

[Anna]

Wouldn't the Kalpoes have long ago changed that hard drive?

I can't imagine they have the same one with all those at the Internet Cafe to chose from.
.

[nonesuche]

wreck you're welcome, AVG is free also and I've used Adaware too with good results. AVG just found three times as much  

blah - I used the wrong term and learned this from Rick who was in internet security as a consultant, certain global companies now regularly make a footprint of any given PC's hard drive, some do it even daily - and you are not aware when they do. I just don't think those are inexpensive devices nor ones that are advertised. I actually think the drive to protect intellectual property spurred this but if you read the fine print of most sustainable and particularly tech company employment contracts now - this will be referenced there somewhere.