Caylee Marie Anthony - JUSTICE DENIED/CASEY FREE #3 7/21 - 7/23/2011

[Desdemona]

The only thing that could convict snot mom was an intelligent, uncorrupt jury.

Thanks Yoder for watching NG

Yep, that's all it would have taken.  It was a no-brainer that should have never even gone to trial.

Justice Derailed.

[mizjay]

::snipping2::

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25606323/detail.html

The above link is to a letter cindy sent to kc.

::snipping2::



I can't believe Cindy wrote the sentences that I've bolded below:

We had water from the pipe outside Caylee's room leak into her room, mostly into her play corner.   Carpet was soaked and walls were damp.  Everything is drying out but the carpet smells bad!  (I better watch how I describe it; they may come take it into discovery!)

 

The majority of you Monkeys have always described Cindy as a liar, an opportunist, crazy, immoral, etc.  I concurred with all of those descriptions except the crazy part, as I didn't really see any evidence of that -- up until just now.  After reading what she wrote, I realized that she has to be out-of-her-mind bat-shizzz crazy to have made a joke like that, to have made light about the "smell's like there's been a dead body in the damn car" comment.  Also, you guys also have made comments insinuating that Cindy did not love Caylee enough to allow her justice...and I didn't really see evidence of that either...until I read her sick joke in that letter.  What sane person cracks a joke about a situation involving a dead granddaughter and where her body might have been hidden?!?  Sick Cindy, very sick sense of humor you have.

Wow.  My mind is blown.  And I'm now firmly in the "Cindy-is-crazy-and-didn't-love Caylee" camp.

Aurelia~  I hope you and all of us keep this horrible quote on hand for every situation that comes up that they try to insinuate themselves into with their new fraudation.
The very idea of them trying to be advocates for grandparents............that quote might open a few eyes. Sponsors of fundraisers or awareness programs need to know what kind of callous people are attempting to ride the charity train.  Thanks for bringing it here.

[Northern Rose]

Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says

 ::snipping2::

What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."

Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/Beginning-to-heal:-George-and-Cindy-Anthony-may-talk-soon,-lawyer-says

Is it too much to wish for them not to heal so that we do not have to see them on TV?
Is it too much to ask for that they have a horrible trip in which they have contact with hoof in mouth disease?
Why am I not surprised they are thinking of suing someone from the trial when Rosebud had truth issues about having better memory now, being at home when she was at work, Zanny the Nanny, it smelled like rotten pizza, there was no duct tape, Casey never stole...OMG the list is so long.  As for Lippman saying the trip is not being paid by the media but instead by their "supporters"  , I think that is Anthony speak for "we are taking more money out of our foundation and the new foundation that we are setting up as well".  JMO

[SunnyinTX]

::snipping2::

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/25606323/detail.html

The above link is to a letter cindy sent to kc.

::snipping2::


One more thing about this letter...Look closely at the handwriting:


I'm no expert but I learned how to analyze handwriting and with help from my handwriting analysis book, here's a brief interpretation of what Cindy's handwriting may reveal about her:

1)  The size of the handwriting:  Cindy's appears to be quite large.  Large and/or tall handwriting may indicate a desire to stand out from the crowd -- to live life large and to look important.  Writing this large also may indicate a tendency toward bluster and puffed-up self importance.

2)  Uneven pen pressure:  Applied pen pressure is a barometer of emotional and physiological wellness.  Inconsistent pressure is a sign that the writer is striving hard to attain emotional stability.  The writer also may be dealing with fatigue in which bouts of energy are interspersed with periods of stress or suffering.

3)  Right-slanted handwriting:  The writer can be impulsive, intense and can get mad easily.  The writer can also have a tendency to overreact and lose control when expressing emotions.

4)  The Baseline:  This is how flat or slanted the sentences are from left to right.  Note that Cindy's letter starts off with a "straight" baseline and then it quickly becomes an sharp, "upward" baseline.

-The "straight" baseline that is rigid may indicate a person who is disciplined and possesses a sense of purpose.  They can also be likely to snap in times of crisis, sometimes in violent or destructive ways.

-The "upward" baseline that veers sharply upward points to a tendency to deny reality and to feel sadness and despair when hopes and expectations are pitched impossibly high.

5)  Spacing between lines:  The writer who leaves wide spaces between lines tends to be punctual and prepared to deal with the circumstances at hand.  The writer prefers things to be structured and does not appreciate surprises or spontaneous events and can be oblivious to other people's preferences.

6)  Spacing between words:  Wide spaces indicate that the writer is likely to be aloof and is slow to trust people.  The writer may also need distance from people and has a hard time with group activities and intimate relationships.

 
BTW, this is all JMOO.   

thanks...interesting for sure!!

[cookie]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/216775268360387?id=224238914280689&notif_t=group_activity

Hey guys, look at what I found on the We Support Casey Anthony Page...Bahahahahahahahahaha

I just heard back from Baez Law Firm.. If you are interested in making a donation towards supporting / Protecting Casey, here's how:

You can send a money order or cashier’s check made payable to the Baez Law Firm and send it to 522 Simpson Road, Kissimmee, FL 34744. Make sure you note that it’s for Ms. Anthony

 

there is a support group for her?? how many members?
I followed the link and it is a closed group so we can't read any of the comments..

https://www.facebook.com/WeSupportCaseyAnthony  1060 likes...but you have to like it to post...

bunch of nutters...they probably do the like button each time the 3 of them post...

[Northern Rose]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/216775268360387?id=224238914280689&notif_t=group_activity

Hey guys, look at what I found on the We Support Casey Anthony Page...Bahahahahahahahahaha

I just heard back from Baez Law Firm.. If you are interested in making a donation towards supporting / Protecting Casey, here's how:

You can send a money order or cashier’s check made payable to the Baez Law Firm and send it to 522 Simpson Road, Kissimmee, FL 34744. Make sure you note that it’s for Ms. Anthony

Colour me stoopid, but unless Bobo gives a donation receipt all the money would be considered income and someone needs to call the IRS to get ahold of the records from Bobo so they get their first cut at it?  I highly doubt he has set up a not/non profit for slore to be able to avoid the reporting of any money she makes by their Facebook panhandling

[Terri]

I have been through trauma in my life...years and years, events, life in general.  I never once thought to take a trip as a means of "healing".  In fact, I kept hearing how I had to stay in school, finish college, go to work each day, whatever the situation, as a means of putting some normalacy in my life...

I have heard people say they go to work to keep their mind off the traumas in their lives.   

MOO

[SunnyinTX]

Jake Schalmo video interview

https://twitter.com/#!/SProductionsCEO
Added hyperlink


Says he DOES have the 5 Million $ he is offering tot mom for interview and also says he doesn't think tot mom is guilty.



If you have not e-mailed your concerns to Jake Schalmo, please do so at:

        jschalmoproductions@gmail.com      

Not sure if new info has come in since my post on this person.  I live in Franklin County, Ohio.  I search our county auditor for both his name and his "business parnter" as noted on FB.  Neither own any property.  If you have money, you have a house.

He does not have a land phone and no public address, as per zabasearch and intelius.  There are a couple of Schalmos in Shreve which I assume are his parents...no major info.

As for his "school" Life Skills is a computer based school for teens that cannot make it in traditional schools....truancy, etc.   I have never met anyone who claims this is a real school.   If this person has a successful company, the school would be tauting him as a sucess story.

I can find no legitamate info on his production company.

Here in Columbus, I have met people who make their own CD's and videos but they generaly sell on the streets etc.  I will check vimeo to see if he has anything posted there.

thanks....he doesn't have 5M!!  More of GR and JB's crap...trying to get someone to bite!!

[Gypsy DD]

"I agree but ... I firmly believe that the case which the prosecution put forward was strong and should have convicted Casey on at least one of the charges that implicated her in the demise of her daughter.  The runaway jury verdicts that disregarded the prosecution charges against Casey Anthony were a given prior to Day One of the trial".

IMO.

Janet
****************************************
I agree Janet, I suppose the PT thought that an intelligent group of people could and would make the effort to come to solid conclusions without endless examples of kc's quirks. Guess they thought wrong...or maybe with that jury nothing would have been enough to convince them to deliberate in sequestration another minute.  Or with strong direction from a leader with an agenda, any evidence can be suspect and a weaker personality be made to feel ignorant for debating it.

Some other forums had trolls that always seemed to have inside info, or at least info that would curiously be the next talking point of DT on the talk show rounds. Those trolls would dig in and in circular fashion pick, pick on evidence and present the same ridiculous floating duct tape theory or the creepy GA theory, day after day, for 2 yrs..so I can see how it only takes one person to be so absolute to trip up others too lazy to find out for themselves.
Runaway jury for sure...why?

I'm not Janet but my opinion is twofold: 1) A NG verdict nets the jurors more money for a jucier salacious story ... 2) Anti dp advocate groups, religious consciences, civil liberties groups - preyed on people's minds.

All I can say is I really want the release of the jurors names.  We already know that Jennifer is a fool and easily played.  We know the one alternate government teachers name....another nutcase that needs to stop teaching in PCounty, particularly government when he can't read, understand. or follow directions. Oh wait he was too busy taking notes since he was an alternate to be worried about how the facts in the case were stringing together and how the lies were outrageous.

I want the names of the jurors..not to harass them..to find out what if any personal agendas they may have had.  I also want to see what affiliation they had with Andrea Lyons and J Lyons and their supporting groups.  Once it was announced the PCounty ticket for extracting jurors for Casey's trial ..well I have a feeling that random selection my have taken place..but that list was gone over for anti-DP supporters..and visits were paid. 

I also think that visits were paid to middle of the road people on the list to persuade them in a direction of anti DP.  I am anti PD..but had Lyons come to my door it would have been slammed in his face.  I would have found her guilty on all counts that's where the unanimous comes into play.  For sentencing I would have voted LWOP and had a clear conscience even if everyone else voted DP. 

This trial would not have presented any problems for me as an anti DP person in finding her guilty of all charges.  That's why my hinky meter is so set off..and the fact that both Jennifer and the jury foreman seemed to be putting the cart before the horse in worrying about sentencing before verdict..and then in not being able to understand circumstantial evidence..and well anything to do with real court trials that are not in a movie or TV show. 

They had instructions from the judge..why weren't they followed to the letter?  And why am I asking this when JP should have asked that questions before he ever read the verdict?

[SunnyinTX]

I am concerned that the info being offered that the Anthonys will want to talk sooner than later is a way of drumming up offers.  Time to begin the bidding war before KC gets the attention.

yep!!  who wants to hear anything they have to say??? 

[mizjay]

Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says

 ::snipping2::

What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."

Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/Beginning-to-heal:-George-and-Cindy-Anthony-may-talk-soon,-lawyer-says

Is it too much to wish for them not to heal so that we do not have to see them on TV?
Is it too much to ask for that they have a horrible trip in which they have contact with hoof in mouth disease?
Why am I not surprised they are thinking of suing someone from the trial when Rosebud had truth issues about having better memory now, being at home when she was at work, Zanny the Nanny, it smelled like rotten pizza, there was no duct tape, Casey never stole...OMG the list is so long.  As for Lippman saying the trip is not being paid by the media but instead by their "supporters"  , I think that is Anthony speak for "we are taking more money out of our foundation and the new foundation that we are setting up as well".  JMO

Amen NR. Why can't they just STHU?  It's going to help them talk about the freaking ordeal? Why can't they heal all by themselves? It takes a stint on GMA to fix their warped sense of truth.....ack.............   Nobody cares Lippman, pass that along to your dumbazz clients and while you're at it shut your pie hole too!!!!!!

[Desdemona]

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/?cmpid=caseytwitter
Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says
By Adam Longo, Reporter
Last Updated: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:45 PM
 ::snipping2::
What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."

Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

George and Cindy:

You failed Caylee utterly and despicably, over and over again for more than three years.  You created and protected the monster who took her sweet little life, and then helped her killer walk free, making a mockery of the justice system and Caylee's  memory, destroying and slandering honest and innocent people in the process.  Your behavior has been a HUGE waste.

Please spare us.  We do not care to read or hear one word you wish to speak, unless it would be a huge, stricken, heartbroken, genuine APOLOGY for your abject and inexcusable failure on Caylee's behalf, and for the shocking and abominable behavior you have shown for over three years now.

And then?  Yes, by all means, take your "trip."  Make it far, far away, and please just stay there.  A permanent retreat into silent, respectable obscurity.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

People Who Care About Caylee and Justice

(JMO) 

[Northern Rose]

Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says

 ::snipping2::

What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."

Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/Beginning-to-heal:-George-and-Cindy-Anthony-may-talk-soon,-lawyer-says

Is it too much to wish for them not to heal so that we do not have to see them on TV?
Is it too much to ask for that they have a horrible trip in which they have contact with hoof in mouth disease?
Why am I not surprised they are thinking of suing someone from the trial when Rosebud had truth issues about having better memory now, being at home when she was at work, Zanny the Nanny, it smelled like rotten pizza, there was no duct tape, Casey never stole...OMG the list is so long.  As for Lippman saying the trip is not being paid by the media but instead by their "supporters"  , I think that is Anthony speak for "we are taking more money out of our foundation and the new foundation that we are setting up as well".  JMO

Amen NR. Why can't they just STHU?  It's going to help them talk about the freaking ordeal? Why can't they heal all by themselves? It takes a stint on GMA to fix their warped sense of truth.....ack.............   Nobody cares Lippman, pass that along to your dumbazz clients and while you're at it shut your pie hole too!!!!!!

They had all the opportunity in the world to "heal by speak" during depositions and while they were on the stand and choose not to do so.  Seems that would have been a good time to start healing.  There is no healing for them, just a new slick way to get up close with money so they do not have to work .  Maybe getting jobs would be a step towards healing IMO.

[ZooMomology]

You know, I just want to say to all these people who support the skenky one.  Even if you ignore the murder, she still dumped her daugther in a swamp with duct tape over her face, in double garbage bags, then a laundry bag, where animals spread her far and wide while she rotted, all while partied until 31 days later, she lied to police about an Invis-I-Nanny. 

They support that?  I don't get it. 

The St. George Plantation security dude emailed me back.  Did not say no she is not there, but said, "Absolutely –no  conformation to your claims. To be on the property would be considered  unauthorized procedurally."

So not sure what that means. 

[serenity/4thekids]

Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says

 ::snipping2::

What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."

Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/Beginning-to-heal:-George-and-Cindy-Anthony-may-talk-soon,-lawyer-says

Is it too much to wish for them not to heal so that we do not have to see them on TV?
Is it too much to ask for that they have a horrible trip in which they have contact with hoof in mouth disease?
Why am I not surprised they are thinking of suing someone from the trial when Rosebud had truth issues about having better memory now, being at home when she was at work, Zanny the Nanny, it smelled like rotten pizza, there was no duct tape, Casey never stole...OMG the list is so long.  As for Lippman saying the trip is not being paid by the media but instead by their "supporters"  , I think that is Anthony speak for "we are taking more money out of our foundation and the new foundation that we are setting up as well".  JMO

OMG! Every time I think they couldn't possibly piss me off anymore, they find a way! So Now I see why Bradley lawyered up,their daughter, DUE PARTLY TO THEIR LYING did not get convicted, , Cindy did not get charged for perjury,therefore the chloroform search was irrelevant and the DT was informed a mistake was made and corrected it, they should count their blessings and move on.............Going on trip with the help of supporters? Plz! why would Lippman even bring that up as to how it's being made possible? Could it be because everyone knows they have no income? So then Lippman, are the supporters also paying for their new jeep? And do these supporters KNOW where their money is going? Did people say, here's some money, take a vacation? No, probably donated money to the "fund" thinking it might actually be put to good use. JMO

[kcrn]

Beginning to heal: George and Cindy Anthony may talk soon, lawyer says

 ::snipping2::

What he does know is the couple may soon talk about the ordeal.

"It's part of the healing process," Lippman said, "so I figure they'll start talking about things sooner rather than later."



































Lippman also said the couple was looking at going on a trip, with the help of supporters. The tip was not paid for by any media organization. They will also stay in Orlando.

Lippman is also talking to them about a potential lawsuit against John Bradley, the software engineer who testified that someone had search for chloroform 84 times on the Anthony home computer.

"He should have vetted the evidence and corrected it before he ever submitted it," Lippman said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/july/283237/Beginning-to-heal:-George-and-Cindy-Anthony-may-talk-soon,-lawyer-says

Is it too much to wish for them not to heal so that we do not have to see them on TV?
Is it too much to ask for that they have a horrible trip in which they have contact with hoof in mouth disease?
Why am I not surprised they are thinking of suing someone from the trial when Rosebud had truth issues about having better memory now, being at home when she was at work, Zanny the Nanny, it smelled like rotten pizza, there was no duct tape, Casey never stole...OMG the list is so long.  As for Lippman saying the trip is not being paid by the media but instead by their "supporters"  , I think that is Anthony speak for "we are taking more money out of our foundation and the new foundation that we are setting up as well".  JMO

Amen NR. Why can't they just STHU?  It's going to help them talk about the freaking ordeal? Why can't they heal all by themselves? It takes a stint on GMA to fix their warped sense of truth.....ack.............   Nobody cares Lippman, pass that along to your dumbazz clients and while you're at it shut your pie hole too!!!!!!

They had all the opportunity in the world to "heal by speak" during depositions and while they were on the stand and choose not to do so.  Seems that would have been a good time to start healing.  There is no healing for them, just a new slick way to get up close with money so they do not have to work .  Maybe getting jobs would be a step towards healing IMO.

These people thrive on being hated dont they? Its not enough they got a hail mary pass & their evil spawn is free? Lets try to ruin some more lives. God these people infuriate me. Why, oh why cant this biatch be charged with perjury!?!!!!!!!??

[Desdemona]

Gypsy, I agree.

Very fishy, deplorable even.  And others have raised a very intriguing question:  Why was Jeremy Lyons in Pinellas County during jury selection?  Hmmm????  And why do the jurors who have spoken out sound like they were not even present at the trial we watched, and like they are now reading from some kind of script?  Why do their statements not ring true?  Why do all the other jurors remain silent and in hiding?  Why does Mason keep harping on the Constitution?

-----

Jury Nullification - When the Jury Ignores the Law
http://www.lawyers.com/~/link.aspx?_id=4FE86A4E-425A-445B-BAE7-052D51082D71&_z=z

 ::snipping2::
What Are the Pros and Cons of Ignoring the Law?

People in favor of jury nullification believe that the jury should be told of this right to stop the government from enforcing unconstitutional laws. They also believe that some automatic punishments for certain crimes are too harsh, and this nullification right would help prevent injustice.

People against jury nullification believe that informing the jurors of this power will cause them to completely forget about the law and to decide the defendant's guilt based on feelings. They believe that the nullification power would allow too many dangerous criminals to go free without any consequences. According to them, the jury should just decide the facts of the case and not worry about the more complex issue of what laws are just or unjust.

Questions for Your Attorney

    * May I ignore a criminal law during jury deliberations if it's against my religious beliefs? What if I believe it's unconstitutional?

    * Should I tell the court if I hear one juror say that he disagrees with a criminal law and is going to ignore it? Does it matter if the verdict has already been returned to the court?

    * If I am charged with a crime, can I have my attorney mention during closing arguments that the jury can ignore the law and find me not guilty?

 ::snipping2::

[Aurelia7]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/216775268360387?id=224238914280689&notif_t=group_activity

Hey guys, look at what I found on the We Support Casey Anthony Page...Bahahahahahahahahaha

I just heard back from Baez Law Firm.. If you are interested in making a donation towards supporting / Protecting Casey, here's how:

You can send a money order or cashier’s check made payable to the Baez Law Firm and send it to 522 Simpson Road, Kissimmee, FL 34744. Make sure you note that it’s for Ms. Anthony

 

Actually, people could have some fun with that.  Imagine all the things one could send to that address:

-Fake money (the kind they make for kids)
-A fake check with a negative dollar amount (Ex: -$1,000,000 - Memo: Crime doesn't pay)
-Photoshopped copies of dollar bills with Caylee's pic and and the words, "Blood money"
-A pile of maggot-infested poo in a box
-Duct tape
-Heart shaped stickers

[ZooMomology]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2011/07/casey-anthony-geraldo-rivera-calls-her-most-reviled-acquitted-defendant-and-hes-never-talked-to-her.html
Casey Anthony: Geraldo Rivera calls her ‘most reviled acquitted defendant,’ and he’s never talked to her
Caylee and Casey Anthony, Fox News Channel, Jose Baez — posted by halboedeker on July, 21 2011 11:16 AM
Casey Anthony is the “most reviled acquitted defendant,” even more so than O.J. Simpson or Michael Jackson, Geraldo Rivera said on Fox News Channel this morning.

“We feel she is a murderer who escaped the death penalty,” Rivera said.

But Rivera stressed: “I have never spoken to Casey Anthony. I don’t know where she is. She’s not on my boat. She’s not in my back yard.”

Still, the perception that Rivera might be sheltering Anthony is costing him. Three women told Rivera’s wife they won’t bring their children to a birthday party party for the Riveras’ 6-year-old later this month because the women think Anthony is at the house.
 ::snipping2::

Good.  If she is not on his property somehow, I bet he is funding the cost or a least part of the cost for holing her up somewhere like a rat.

[ZooMomology]

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/casey_anthony_prosecutors_discrepancies_in_chloroform_word_searches_disclos/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=ABA+Journal+Daily+News
Legal Ethics
Casey Anthony Prosecutors Defend Their Ethics, Cite Misdirected Email on Software Issues
Posted Jul 21, 2011 7:22 AM CDT
By Debra Cassens Weiss

I don't know why they are defending their ethics.  They did nothing wrong.  It is the dumbfense team that had horrible ethics.