Lively Case Discussion #629 5/26 - 5/28/2007

[klaasend]

hmmm...been reading all of this .... very interesting, indeed....

Then have been doing some thinking about Rob's comments about the Joran condoms supplies....

What if they went to the Sloot compound because of the supply of condoms there.... and... went over the wall injuring Natalee ...but had sex with an injured Natalee anyway.... and....

Then where would they discard said condoms?  Some place Mama wouldn't likely look, right?  The Condoms contain DNA, right?  More likely preserved inside those latex linings... and discarded perhaps someplace outside?

Perhaps the forensics team was seeking those... and found them!

and with surrounding soil samples one might even find small, even microscopic female hair (which does not decompose very fast) attached...???

Just a thought....I think Rob might be working on a similar theory here....

Well that part of the yard is right next to Joran's apartment.  My guess is there is a large supply of used condoms back there.  He's a piece of slime isn't he?

[crazybabyborg]

Thank you both. I am so pleased! CBB, that is a great avatar. Klaas, you're a good teacher. I was fooling around with an avatar resizer freeware but your way is easier. Wait till they all see my new clothes tomorrow!      

Glad you like it, and Klaas is a great teacher! I didn't know how to hardly open Photoshop until she taught me!

[klaasend]

WHERE IS???

GLENDA/JULIA

JR DUTCH ATTORNEY

BOUCHERON (JR DUTCH ATTORNEY'S MOM)

[crazybabyborg]

WHERE IS???

GLENDA/JULIA

JR DUTCH ATTORNEY

BOUCHERON (JR DUTCH ATTORNEY'S MOM)

Are they just embarrassed by the position they've taken and fearful it's about to blow or have they gotten caught in their lies?

[Silverfox]

hmmm...been reading all of this .... very interesting, indeed....

Then have been doing some thinking about Rob's comments about the Joran condoms supplies....

What if they went to the Sloot compound because of the supply of condoms there.... and... went over the wall injuring Natalee ...but had sex with an injured Natalee anyway.... and....

Then where would they discard said condoms?  Some place Mama wouldn't likely look, right?  The Condoms contain DNA, right?  More likely preserved inside those latex linings... and discarded perhaps someplace outside?

Perhaps the forensics team was seeking those... and found them!

and with surrounding soil samples one might even find small, even microscopic female hair (which does not decompose very fast) attached...???

Just a thought....I think Rob might be working on a similar theory here....

I'm not TRYING to have a blonde moment   . but don't most condoms have a built in spermicide? Would that mess up DNA evidence?

I really don't know that answer -- but you know that condom contents are actually used in in forensics anyway... so i am thinking enough of the DNA would still be usable anyway....and besides that, Nat's hair alone, if there would hang them...

[klaasend]

WHERE IS???

GLENDA/JULIA

JR DUTCH ATTORNEY

BOUCHERON (JR DUTCH ATTORNEY'S MOM)

Are they just embarrassed by the position they've taken and fearful it's about to blow or have they gotten caught in their lies?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Renfro is being investigated, same with JR Dutch Attorney.

[carpe noctem]

THE LINEUP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhjDMxjbX28

[klaasend]

THE LINEUP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhjDMxjbX28

Thanks Carpe!

[crazybabyborg]

WHERE IS???

GLENDA/JULIA

JR DUTCH ATTORNEY

BOUCHERON (JR DUTCH ATTORNEY'S MOM)

Are they just embarrassed by the position they've taken and fearful it's about to blow or have they gotten caught in their lies?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Renfro is being investigated, same with JR Dutch Attorney.

OH!  
   
You're giving me sweet dreams, Klaas!

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[crazybabyborg]

THE LINEUP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhjDMxjbX28

That's so nice to be`able`to watch what you've missed! Thank you!!!!

[crazybabyborg]

Nite, Klaas! I'm not far behind you!

[Port Valerie]

Looking forward to 41 pages about the lies. After all this time, I'm still fascinated and puzzled about what actually happened. Maybe Rob is right -- they went to the vds house and climbed over the wall. The Kalpoes went home. Whatever happened happened at the house. Nobody else said the car was loud. Maybe jvds said it early on as a way of saying, see, if we had gone near my house my neighbors would have heard it -- but they didn't, so I didn't. If the car was normal, they could have driven to the vds house without being noticed; same for going in and out of the kalpoe house at all hours. I think the car was quiet, and they could have gone just about anywhere.

If it happened at the house, jvds did not have to deal with the situation that night. He could have gone to school as usual and enlisted Deepak to help him later in the afternoon. That;s why he was with Deepak when Beth and party arrived at the house.

I don't think they simply buried her body at the house, for the simple reason that the family has big dogs. Remember the dog or dogs that were roaming around the yard when Beth went to the house and met Paulus.

In this scenario, Joran is the "mastermind" and Deepak got involved with the disposal. Joran certainly has acted as the mastermind in the aftermath, going on TV and writing a book against all sensible advice.

I think they went to the lighthouse because that was the first story that Deepak and Satish gave, on the very first day. But then they went back to the house and Deepak didn't find out what had happened until the next day and Satish never did know what was going on.

Paulus got involved later, after Beth had arrived and the true dimension of the problem became apparent. He could have corrected whatever Joran and Deepak had done to dispose of the body, by enlisting some adult help. Most likely he arranged to have her put in a crypt. No one can look in a crypt without huge legal machinations. He thinks like a lawyer bureaucrat. He isn't a physically competent man and would not have been inclined to deal with a boat and tides and sailor-type accomplices.

They never went to the Marriott beach, which is why no one saw them there.

[Port Valerie]

More ...

She's in a crypt, which allows the VDS parents to go forward in reasonably comfortable conscience: What would be the point of disinterring her from a perfectly good burial site and moving her to another, if it would mean ruining their son's life, they might rationalize.

Deepak was involved in the first disposal, and so he can't talk, even now.

She had to disappear forever (into the crypt) because, by the time Paulus got involved, her body had evidence not only of the original crime or accident but also of the attempt to hide her. Even if she had died of an accident, as Joran no doubt claimed, Joran would be guilty of hiding the death. Paulus's first instinct was to cover up for his son. It was a mistake. As more time went by and the family and media descended, it became impossible to come forth with the truth. They were stuck.

[Port Valerie]

Last one out. Turning out the lights. Morning crew, please excuse the empty coke cans and pizza boxes. We were watching Fox, hoping for news which never came.

[igsigs]

No Way

...is Deepak texting Joran at 2:46 and telling him to call him to let him know he got home allright.

...if Satish is picking him up/driving him home at the same time.

Did Not Happen

[Tibrogargan]

Port Valerie - No need to worry :



Coke Cans, Pizza Boxes and Banana Peels a Specialty :



Even have my own little helper :



Sweeping on the way over to the lounge :

[Silverfox]

hmmm...been reading all of this .... very interesting, indeed....

Then have been doing some thinking about Rob's comments about the Joran condoms supplies....

What if they went to the Sloot compound because of the supply of condoms there.... and... went over the wall injuring Natalee ...but had sex with an injured Natalee anyway.... and....

Then where would they discard said condoms?  Some place Mama wouldn't likely look, right?  The Condoms contain DNA, right?  More likely preserved inside those latex linings... and discarded perhaps someplace outside?

Perhaps the forensics team was seeking those... and found them!

and with surrounding soil samples one might even find small, even microscopic female hair (which does not decompose very fast) attached...???

Just a thought....I think Rob might be working on a similar theory here....

Well that part of the yard is right next to Joran's apartment.  My guess is there is a large supply of used condoms back there.  He's a piece of slime isn't he?

Yes, indeed.... and, if there is a "large supply of useds" out there can you think of the implications regarding "other" girls he might have picked up?  If this is part of what the Forensic's team was gathering (i.e. probes, etc.) you can bet there is a whole lot of DNA samples including hairs --

hair, of course does not decompose as quickly as regular tissue and would show up not only "inside" a condom (the guy of course) but also "outide" the condom (the girl) -- even microscopic hairs could conceivably be found.... (think about it -- why would he volunteer that Natalee had been "shaved"...-- maybe they shaved her after the fact... who knows... but even to shave her would not get rid of what might appear on a condom.

Everybody is upset that they didn't seem to do any digging but yet the forensics team did do some shoveling, right?  and a tree was dug up, right?  it might have been condoms, among other things that they were looking for and they might have actually found them...

Plus, remember the revelation from Paulus that the team there was reading joran's book and laughing?  Well, maybe the book was part of the catalyst for this particular search -- Joran may have inadvertantly led the investigators to the very places the evidence was still present.... Maybe the book was their roadmap... right?

I feel confident that the investigators probbly found what they came for and are now back at their labs analyzing everything....

The clock is ticking.....

[Buckeye]

Personally, I think Natalee was a virgin.  There was a big movement in the campus life group to save themselves for marriage.  I met lots of kids that made that commitment.  The only reason for Joran to go into so much graphic detail is to cover for the fact that "something bad" happened to a nice girl.  He says everything but rape.  He knew she was a virgin....and...he didn't need a condom...and didn't use one...that's why there could be no body.  IMO

[Easywriter]

Joran should do jail time just for writing that book!