Lively Case Discussion #630 5/28 - 5/29/2007

[sharon]

I think there were two crime sites,the rocks and joran's,in any order.

I agree. Not sure of the order, either.

[Peaches]

Trust me,they don't forget,anything.Who was in Miami,for PVDS to see.

I'll guess.

Freddy's greasy brother?

[Dayhiker]

There is corroboration for Freddie's version of events of Joran telling him that on Monday just as Freddie says.  Friends of Jug at the International School on Wednesday were told by the Headmaster than on Monday, Paulus brought Joran to school late and told him:

According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea."


--------

This was Alibi 1.0 and by Tuesday, just as with Freddie, it was up to the Security Guard story, Alibi 2.0.  I don't think even a Sloot would tell both stories at the same time.  

I know not everybody believes Joran even went to school on Monday but I do think he was there for at least part of the day.  I think Joran may well over estimate his capacity for alcohol just as much as he does his charm for the ladies and that he was likely still drunk at school blabbing away about this.

And supposedly he rides the school bus to the racketball club.

Headmaster supposedly told this all to the Friends of Jug at the school.  Now he doesn't say that any more.  Or does he?

If his statement was taken early on, that quote is from the National Enquirer but they do get things right once in a while and that was from July 15, 2005, before the headmaster sent away for the entire summer apparently to Africa.

The Headmaster is American and I once had hopes he would tell the truth.  But what he is saying is that Joran and Paulus knew far too early that Natalee was missing and not making her flight back.

Someone may have Jug's interviews on this, there were two, it is in two parts and I think the second part is no longer posted on the internet but I remember it well.  And he said Joran was talking and saying this on Monday before news was out that anybody was missing.

So ALE has this from two sources and yet no one is in jail for doing this?

.

Mornin' Monks!  

Anna, worse yet all of the Dutch judges had these statements. How could they deny a search of the house and allow them never to have to testify again seeing all of these suspicious statements and differences in all of these stories.

Those Dutch judges from Curacao are all crooks and just as guilty as the suspects for the way they handled this case. I hope they throw the book at the slimy bastards.

[San]

Trust me,they don't forget,anything.Who was in Miami,for PVDS to see.

I'll guess.

Freddy's greasy brother?

This is who I thought of also.

But who was the owner of the site that Joran downloaded pictures or movies.  Is that Mr. Pink?

[Dayhiker]

Whatever happened to Natalee probably took place at Joran’s, but they could have taken her lifeless body to the beach with the idea of just leaving her close to her hotel.  After trying to shake her back to life, they realized that they had been seen with her and they needed to do something with the body.

I don’t think the three numb nuts could have come up with a successful plan, so that puts Paulus in the position of orchestrating the cover-up.  He probably did call in some favors and got a couple of dirty cops to get rid of the evidence.

I agree Easy. No way the three shits could have pulled off the disposal, nor Paulus without professional help.

Jossy believes in Van der Straten. I want to see where he is when all this shakes out.

[San]

Whatever happened to Natalee probably took place at Joran’s, but they could have taken her lifeless body to the beach with the idea of just leaving her close to her hotel.  After trying to shake her back to life, they realized that they had been seen with her and they needed to do something with the body.

I don’t think the three numb nuts could have come up with a successful plan, so that puts Paulus in the position of orchestrating the cover-up.  He probably did call in some favors and got a couple of dirty cops to get rid of the evidence.

I agree Easy. No way the three shits could have pulled off the disposal, nor Paulus without professional help.

Jossy believes in Van der Straten. I want to see where he is when all this shakes out.

Van der Straten will be at the top of the list.  JMO.

[Tiger]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

[Tylergal]

I've been thinking about the conversation that Marcia Twitty supposedly had with some of the students(not sure if it's rumor or true?).
It was where Marcia was telling them if this gets out we'll all go down and even Natalee...what if she was saying that if what they knew could get them killed?And at that time they thought Natalee was still alive and if the students told what they knew it could get Natalee killed?I'm not good at putting things into typed words but hope this makes sense.

I never heard that.  I heard that Marcia on behalf of the FBI confiscated all their cameras and asked them not to talk, also on behalf of the FBI, since this case was still under investigation and they gave their statements at that time to the FBI, and a few others were requestioned when Dampig came to Birmingham.

[Tylergal]

Good Morning everyone!  Hope you had a great weekend.  I just read Ramm's translation of Chapter 8 and I am so outraged I can't stand it.  Joran is an evil, lying, manipulating POS.  What kind of person could write such things, so hateful and ugly.  

Joran is angry.  He wants to degrade Natalee any way he can.  Natalee destroyed him and his life will never be the same and Joran knows it.  Everyone stares at him when he walks down the street.  He can't travel like he used to and more importantly he can't go into a bar and drug tourists in Aruba likes he is used to.  So he is mad and he is blaming Natalee and wants to destroy her memory any way he can.  BUT GUESS WHAT?  IT'S NOT WORKING AND ONLY MAKING HIM LOOK LIKE THE MONSTER HE IS.

I hardly think Natalee destroyed him.  I think his parents destroyed him by being losers and not raising the boy properly.  They had no control over him because they are 60s type kinda hippies who read that Dr. Spock book and thought that was enough.

[wreck]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

The crime itself was petty (***on an International scale-- not to Natalee or us) but the COVER-UP was MONUMENTAL in its implications!

[greeneyedlady]

A very good post by facil at FOB:

facil wrote:

Beth is Natalee’s mother and she knows her daughter.  Natalee has an established track record based upon her academic achievements, her participation in extracurricular activities and her volunteer work.  There are many red flags when an adolescent has problems with substance abuse, or are the subjects of other abuses.  Nothing about Natalee’s behavior indicated such problems.  Did she go to parties with her friends?  Yes, I would assume so.  Did she drink too much while in Aruba?  Most likely.  Did Beth know everything her daughter did?  Doubtful.  But, none of that changes the facts that she is gone without a trace.

 

Joran also has a track record.  Read his book for details.

[Tylergal]

Trust me,they don't forget,anything.Who was in Miami,for PVDS to see.

I'll guess.

Freddy's greasy brother?

This is who I thought of also.

But who was the owner of the site that Joran downloaded pictures or movies.  Is that Mr. Pink?

I always thought one of our earlier posters here who used to argue until her face turned blue with her lies was connected to Mr. Pink and she was adamantly a supporter of Deepak, if you recall.  I think she was somehow involved.  I wish we still had her posts.  She posted on the front page lies about Natalee running away, under a different name from the one she used here.

[Peaches]

I saw that exchange earlier.  facil is doing a good job.

Almost as much fun as seawolf.

[greeneyedlady]

I saw that exchange earlier.  facil is doing a good job.

Almost as much fun as seawolf.

yep

[Anna]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

The crime itself was petty (***on an International scale-- not to Natalee or us) but the COVER-UP was MONUMENTAL in its implications!

Apparently not in some cultures, Wreck.  We Americans and Anglos in general are completely outraged but I suspect there are places where this is business as usual and they don't even understand how we think something should be done about it.

But I do!  I want those who committed crimes in this cover up punished almost as much as the ones who did this.

If Joran were innocent, I can't imagine he would be trashing a victim, any victim like this.

GEL,
I don't believe Marcia Twitty ever said any such thing.  She is not stupid and would never say that to a group of teenagers no matter what.  I don't think they are very afraid so far away from the domain of evil.  MB is very protected area.  Not gated but might as well be.

Last thing those thugs want, especially Posner, is anything to do with this happening on U.S. soil for then we might be able to fry the lot of them!

.

[Tylergal]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

The crime itself was petty (***on an International scale-- not to Natalee or us) but the COVER-UP was MONUMENTAL in its implications!

The reason it should be tried in Alabama as an international crime, and our prayers should be such, that this case can be tried in Natalee's home state as an international crime against humanity and an international kidnapping.  There is no body, right.  That makes it a kidnapping.  If it was not, and the family had a body, it could be called a murder.  This is a kidnapping with intention to rape and murder.  Now if our federal attorneys in Alabama can just get their caps put on correctly, there is hope it can be brought state-side and tried.

[Tylergal]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

The crime itself was petty (***on an International scale-- not to Natalee or us) but the COVER-UP was MONUMENTAL in its implications!

Apparently not in some cultures, Wreck.  We Americans and Anglos in general are completely outraged but I suspect there are places where this is business as usual and they don't even understand how we think something should be done about it.

But I do!  I want those who committed crimes in this cover up punished almost as much as the ones who did this.

If Joran were innocent, I can't imagine he would be trashing a victim, any victim like this.

GEL,
I don't believe Marcia Twitty ever said any such thing.  She is not stupid and would never say that to a group of teenagers no matter what.  I don't think they are very afraid so far away from the domain of evil.  MB is very protected area.  Not gated but might as well be.

Last thing those thugs want, especially Posner, is anything to do with this happening on U.S. soil for then we might be able to fry the lot of them!

.

I agree, Anna, that was big talk from Refugees about what Marcia Twitty said.  It was not just a figment of their imagination, it was a downright malicious lie.

[greeneyedlady]

I trust Jossy.I think it had to be more in Miami than Freddy's brother,like crime lords.A lot of Money cleaning comes from Miami,several banks would fail ,if the drug trade stopped.Big banks,very big banks.

The crime itself was petty (***on an International scale-- not to Natalee or us) but the COVER-UP was MONUMENTAL in its implications!

Apparently not in some cultures, Wreck.  We Americans and Anglos in general are completely outraged but I suspect there are places where this is business as usual and they don't even understand how we think something should be done about it.

But I do!  I want those who committed crimes in this cover up punished almost as much as the ones who did this.

If Joran were innocent, I can't imagine he would be trashing a victim, any victim like this.

GEL,
I don't believe Marcia Twitty ever said any such thing.  She is not stupid and would never say that to a group of teenagers no matter what.  I don't think they are very afraid so far away from the domain of evil.  MB is very protected area.  Not gated but might as well be.

Last thing those thugs want, especially Posner, is anything to do with this happening on U.S. soil for then we might be able to fry the lot of them!

.

I doubt Marcia said that either-was just thinking if so there was a good reason and not what the darkside is implying.

[Tiger]

well,it can't be tried in Alabama,under the conflicts of Laws concept.The Hague would be the correct nexus.The Sociopath isn't cured or made by upbring,only emboldened.Now,all that can be done is put them down.San,are you up for the job and do you have a black mask.

[Tiger]

Klass,you have mail.Where does Mr pink live