Lively Case Discussion #630 5/28 - 5/29/2007

[San]

San, you'll love this...I was at a luncheon today attended by Rep. Chris Shays.   The purpose of the lunch was to honor small business owners.  Shays gets up and starts blathering on and on about global warming and the Iraq war - and how there is no middle-of-the-road dialog going on in this country - both among the general public and in Washington.  [I'm thinking, isn't this what we pay politicians to do - dialog and compromise?].  

Then he starts talking about how 60 million people watched American Idol and how everyone "paid way too much attention to THAT GIRL who disappeared in the Caribbean" when "children disappear every day".  Oooh...was I hopping mad by then.  He never mentioned Natalee by name - probably doesn't even know her name, but he threw her in his stupid speech for good measure.  His comments were totally inappropriate from start to finish given the purpose of the luncheon.  Made me sorry I voted for him!  And on this two-year anniversary too!  

What an ass this guy is.  Lucky I'm am feeling under the weather today because I would be cursing him all over the place.

Yes children go missing every day, but when it is made so obvious that they covered up a murder for a sick demented dutch boy and his pervert father of course we are going to keep our eye on Aruba.  I hope he sends his kids to Aruba and make sure they go to CnC's.  How much you want to bet he would never send his kids there without him escorting them.

[wreck]

Posted by Ade69 (a new poster at RU and could be Joran for all I know   ) regarding the explaination in Joran's book about Freddy's statements:

The translation is alright, it is probably the source for the "going in and out of conscious"-myth.
Here are the two last paragraphs of chapter 11 with Joran's explanation:

Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.
Freddy's family panicked too, and asked Freddy to do everything the police said. The police certainly put words in Freddy mouth.
All [PV's, processen-verbaal] are being typed out in Dutch after the interrogations are done in the language of the suspect, so in Freddy's case Papiamentu. Errors will be made in the PV's and frequently people don't get the time to read it carefully, or they can't read it because of poor Dutch language skills. Evenso, the police wants you too sign it right away.

Today [13 june 2005???] a mason also makes a declaration [to the police]. He says he saw me raping Natalee and strangling her with a scarf. The condom and the scarf would have been brought to Venezuela. Later it came out that the man made this story up to get money from Jossy Mansur, the editor of Diario. Mansur has paid the mason 1700 euro for his story. The mason used this to pay of his debt for rent payments and later admitted to the police that he had lied.

NOTE:  The 13 june 2005 date is incorrect, I'm sure it's 2005 (the condom witness guy)

Let's take EVERYTHING Joran says as the truth (bear with me --   )

This would be EXACTLY why you do not write a "tell-all" book WHILE you are still a suspect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Tacopina has to be LIVID!!!
This just PROVES that arrogant Joran thinks he is "smarter" than everyone. He won't listen to anyone -- not his father -- not his lawyer!!!!

[igsigs]

I am sure Joran is well aware of the problems that non-dutch non-aruban born persons can have on Aruba. As he noted with Venezuelan Freddy.

I bet Paulus explained this very carefully to the Kalpoes.

[Tylergal]

San, you'll love this...I was at a luncheon today attended by Rep. Chris Shays.   The purpose of the lunch was to honor small business owners.  Shays gets up and starts blathering on and on about global warming and the Iraq war - and how there is no middle-of-the-road dialog going on in this country - both among the general public and in Washington.  [I'm thinking, isn't this what we pay politicians to do - dialog and compromise?].  

Then he starts talking about how 60 million people watched American Idol and how everyone "paid way too much attention to THAT GIRL who disappeared in the Caribbean" when "children disappear every day".  Oooh...was I hopping mad by then.  He never mentioned Natalee by name - probably doesn't even know her name, but he threw her in his stupid speech for good measure.  His comments were totally inappropriate from start to finish given the purpose of the luncheon.  Made me sorry I voted for him!  And on this two-year anniversary too!  

Never cared for the old Hollywood hack.  He bends and twists in the wind to what the rich people, once removed from Hollywood to his district, want.  He is a RINO.

[Tylergal]

Per RU trans    The Freddy Excuse

"Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

Freddy's family panicked too, and asked Freddy to do everything the police said. The police certainly put words in Freddy's mouth."

I believe he is posting on the front page recently, in defense of A&V.

[igsigs]

That's one it would be good to look at again in light of these new Freddy revelations by Joran. Anybody got a copy of that?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/category/diario/

> scroll down to *they went into panic* story.

[Kermit]

BETH’S JUNE 1, 2005 STATEMENT WAS CHANGED:
“Beth said that one of the things that had gotten changed about her statements that was so upsetting to her was that she had given detailed descriptions of Paulus Van der Sloot with his name included several times in her statement and when she got it translated, she found out that her description had been changed to read only “the man with the glasses”.
HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Well, there was a phone call made. And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


Kimberly Guilfoyle:
As for Paulus, sources say he is the person next to Natalie in the casino.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198887,00.html


JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/

[Kermit]

Under Dutch law, there ARE charges of obstruction of justice and obstruction of an investigation. Lying, such as when J. SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH lied about leaving NATALEE at the “Holiday Inn,” WOULD constitute an obstruction of one or the other kind depending on the lie.

[Dayhiker]

I am sure Joran is well aware of the problems that non-dutch non-aruban born persons can have on Aruba. As he noted with Venezuelan Freddy.

I bet Paulus explained this very carefully to the Kalpoes.

Paulus is the only one on that friggin' island who put pressure on anybody including that Kalpoes and all the other people he had dirt on.

Who's paying his legal bills and what does he have on them?

[igsigs]

Joran is flat-out calling ALE corrupt in this book. The exact thing that spurred Nico Jorg to rip Paulus a new one.

This Freddy excuse would make for a nice article in Diario.

[Kermit]

Per RU trans    The Freddy Excuse

"Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

Freddy's family panicked too, and asked Freddy to do everything the police said. The police certainly put words in Freddy's mouth."

HA HA HA HA ----- please don't make me pull out that mafia looking family picture of Freddy's. Considering deportation would be last on their list of fears - since they live in New York, Florida, and Isle of Margarita -- pffft spin it like a top baby cuz fat don't fly

[Dayhiker]

That's one it would be good to look at again in light of these new Freddy revelations by Joran. Anybody got a copy of that?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/category/diario/

> scroll down to *they went into panic* story.

Thanks Igsigs. That is a good read.

[Anna]

Joran seems to be having a very hard time accepting that his "best friend" squealed on him like a piggy!  I wonder if it has ever occurred to Joran that he is not nearly as highly regarded by others as he is by himself!

Overage on Fox now of new Hogzilla but promise to cover Natalee later on Neil Cavuto.

Like all the others he will probably devote a whole sentence or even two sentences to it!  

[blah]

Why thank you Blah but I believe Rep Shays is a man.  That would be the subject of my post.

 

just  making sure, cuz ----> hearts of men is plural yanno
 

[Kermit]

Rob,
I don't think Anita's journals would have much LEGAL implications -- but it MIGHT expose her deceptions and the complicity of Julia Renfro et al.

Suppose someone in ALE was leaking information to Renfro, who was in turn leaking it to Anita and Paulus.

That is obstruction of justice and both Renfro and the Sloots would be liable for criminal punishment.

Dogs and sonar at the Kalpoes, oh my!!!

[b]DOMPIG[/b]

[AZSunny]

Under Dutch law, there ARE charges of obstruction of justice and obstruction of an investigation. Lying, such as when J. SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH lied about leaving NATALEE at the “Holiday Inn,” WOULD constitute an obstruction of one or the other kind depending on the lie.

Kermit,  I am remembering something about they can lie if they are suspects, but can't lie if witness.  Is that true, or is that a rumor?  I thought that the spokesman for Aruba said that on Fox on night.  (the cute woman from the prosecutors office)  

How does this play into obstruction of justice?

[San]

Per RU trans    The Freddy Excuse

"Freddy has been put under enormous pressure by the police, he was even arrested. He was terrified and as a Venezuelan in Aruba very vulnerable due to fear of deportation. He became a string puppet for the police and he did everything to prevent being arrested again.

Freddy's family panicked too, and asked Freddy to do everything the police said. The police certainly put words in Freddy's mouth."

HA HA HA HA ----- please don't make me pull out that mafia looking family picture of Freddy's. Considering deportation would be last on their list of fears - since they live in New York, Florida, and Isle of Margarita -- pffft spin it like a top baby cuz fat don't fly

Exactly.

[Dayhiker]

Joran seems to be having a very hard time accepting that his "best friend" squealed on him like a piggy!  I wonder if it has ever occurred to Joran that he is not nearly as highly regarded by others as he is by himself!

Overage on Fox now of new Hogzilla but promise to cover Natalee later on Neil Cavuto.

Like all the others he will probably devote a whole sentence or even two sentences to it!  

His best friend squeals on him and, worse yet, they didn't go jack about it. If you ever needed evidence of a cover-up all you need is to read the statements and know that the sonovabitches down there did nothing.

[Tamikosmom]

I betcha Freddy's sister confirms that Joran visited on monday...not tuesday.

I do not believe that Freddy made a mistake in his declaration regarding May 30, 2007 as the date Joran relayed the Marriot Beach story to him.  Freddy also mentions the "previous day, Sunday" as well as "the next day, Tuesday, May 31st".  It all comes together.  
 
Janet

Translation Credit: Ramm (BFN)

Freddy Zedan
Witness Statement
June 12, 2005

<snipped>

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house. He told met that the previous day,Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together. After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her. They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba. The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves. After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away. (....)

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub ....

[Anna]

So Joran says not only were the Guards involved in dope being in KIA, they were involved in coercion of witnesses AGAINST him???

How's that for gratitude!

Big Story instead of Cavuto is on now and after commercial supposed to offer coverage of Natalee's disappearance with the promised updates.

..