Lively Case Discussion #630 5/28 - 5/29/2007

[wreck]

Joran is old enough to know what he's doing, we're seeing that all in writing now in his hand and it's infuriating people - as it should.

Joran was under the age of 18 at the time. When (not if) this starts to close-in -- I believe Paulus et al will try to pin EVERYTHING on Joran because he will get off the easiest.

[LilPuma]

That's the trifecta Tyler.

Still, most of us that live here are just normal folk who just love the weather  

I thought Lil Puma was saying we love the weather and the drugs  

Really -- Miami Vice was jsut a TV program      

I was teasin' ya because you seemed to cover everything except the drug trade that is quite the popular career choice in South Florida.

[nonesuche]

wreck I agree Paulus will use that, but Joran IS 18 and wrote the book at age 18. I guess knowing that at my daughter's parent/student orientation for college I was told even if she was raped I would not be contacted by the administration since she was 18, would not receive grade reports, would not have access to any of her student records but just accountable for the bill - it hit home to be how 18 truly is the marker for adulthood as per our society.

That was my point for at age 18 he's published a book which he should be accountable for as a result.

[Port Valerie]

None -- I know the consensus has been that Charles Croes can't be trusted. Still, he was the one who went straight to the vds door on the first night. He claimed the kids on the beach said "oh that's Joran's car" but actually it was not: it was Deepak's car and would more probably have led him to the Kalpoes house. The kids on the beach, of course, remain untraced and there is only CC's word for what they said. He's an odd figure in the story.

[Port Valerie]

Joran's book reveals a mean streak. I especially dislike the parts where he says that he was interested in Ruth early in the evening and hardly noticed Natalee. And the parts where he drags in a few unknown people getting off the bus or something. And the part where he has Natalee supposedly say something that will make the Kalpoes enraged. He's having a good time throwing stuff against the wall to see whom he can hurt and what might stick. I feel like he's laughing while writing some of this.

[Port Valerie]

I wonder if Greta is still smitten by this innocent-looking charmer.

[BTgirl]

I wonder if Greta is still smitten by this innocent-looking charmer.

I'd be willing to bet she is. If she couldn't see what he was from interviewing him, reading the book won't change her mind, IMO.

And yes, I think you're right about Joran being mean. It still irks me very much that he talks about how Natalee said her family had a plantation with slaves. There is absolutely no way anyone Natalee's age would have made such a comment, even to be funny. I think it was Joran's way of trying one more time to make her look bad, and he didn't realize how ridiculous it would sound to people from the US.

[Port Valerie]

leaving the building

[Tylergal]

I wonder if Greta is still smitten by this innocent-looking charmer.

She is probably just jealous of the color of lipstick and the false eyelashes he was wearing in that interview he did with her buddy, Cuomo, and wanted him on to see if she could get some tips from him before her next plastic surgery.

[Easywriter]

News was depressing at lunch.  The breaking story was about a 23-year-old mother in Texas that had been found hanging in her closet next to her four daughters.  An 8 month old survived.  They think it was murder/suicide at this time.

[Tamikosmom]

Port Valerie, the issue with WHY there isn't more concrete cell phone tracing is likely due to the one fact that Digicel is the provider who is also Charles Croe's distribution network for his company. Who trusts CCroes to push for accountable tracing/reporting or worse, to use his connection to Digicel to suppress such info? I don't trust CC one iota.

Tamikosmom-

I agree Joran is who he is today due to parental lack of care and discipline or even morality, but at what point since we consider 18 year olds 'adults' in this world does he choose to obey the law? If choice isn't part of that equation then every child from a broken home or who has had hard times has an excuse for criminal behavior?

Joran is old enough to know what he's doing, we're seeing that all in writing now in his hand and it's infuriating people - as it should.

I agree 100%.  I believe that each of us ... no matter what our lot in life is ... as adults we have have the ability to determine right and wrong based on logic ... common sense ... the standards established by a civilized society and ... each of us has to take personal responsibility for the choices we made.  This is why I made it clear in my post ... if Joran is not held accountable by Aruba/Holland for his participation in the events encompassing the morning that Natalee Holloway went missing ... there will still be a day of accounting where his status as Paulus' son will have no bearing on the judgement.

Janet

[msmarple]

Monkeys - SunFreak mentioned this several weeks ago; this is a REMINDER and suggested email.

Send this (or similar) to your local radio station that plays Classic Rock / Golden Oldies music. Or call the request line. Need to get on this pretty quickly ...

***

Natalee Holloway is the high school graduate from Alabama who disappeared in 2005 during a trip to Aruba with many of her classmates. She was last seen at around 1:00 a.m. on Monday, May 30, as Carlos & Charlies was closing. It was the group’s last night on Aruba.

It is almost certain that she died that morning, but her body has not been found. Foul play is definitely suspected.

Coming up on the two-year mark of this occasion, I have a special music request.

* While on the trip, some number of the group went to C&C’s every night. They always asked the DJ to play Lynard Skynard’s “Sweet Home Alabama.”

* In Natalee’s yearbook, as a senior, she chose this quotation to accompany her class picture, from Lynard Skynard’s “Freebird”:
   If I leave here tomorrow
   Would you still remember me?
   For I must be traveling on, now,
   'Cause there's too many places I've got to see.

It would be wonderful if <the station> could emphasize these songs (especially “Freebird”) throughout May 29 and 30.

And should the DJ mention that “This one’s for Natalee,” there are many followers of this case who would know exactly why …

Thank you; I enjoy your music.

(name)

***

Be SURE to say Thank You.

[Tiger]

The request has been done.where do we go from here,just leave or continue,as we did when a young woman in LA went missing.I hope many of us continue,as an honor to Natalee and her memory.we need to remember the horrific effect of drugs and porn.There are no victemless crimes.to bad we can't test for a joran and lock him up early.

[Dayhiker]

Anna, worse yet all of the Dutch judges had these statements.

9/21/06 - KLPD announces an agreement has been made and they are taking over, reviewing the dossier and will return to Aruba.

9/26/06 - Pres. of Courts Luis Delannoy climbs out of his rathole to make his first public comments on case. Talks of how limited the judicial role has been in the case and how the judges can only react to the information given to them by the Prosecution.

  No coincidence that Delannoy felt the need to defend the judges the same week that the KLPD took over, considering all the inexplicable rulings handed down that favored the suspects. Also no coincidence that every decision since, suspect status / Paulus compensation / searches, have gone in favor of the prosecution.

Good point Igsigs. They tried to hide behind Dutch law and blame it on the Prosecutor but a blind man can look at these statements and the squad van interview and see these three punks are lying their asses off.
Those judges would have ignored anything laid in front of them to get their Dutch boy back to Holland.

[Tiger]

I head Freebird earlier.it now moves me.

[Tiger]

we must not stop or forget,that is the American way.

[msmarple]

Also in the category of proactive things to do ... I am reposting this to draw attention to the June 17-July 1 New Orleans travel show. Richard posted this on the Front Page, and klass copied it to the travel show thread (link below).

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1003&start=80

Posted by Richard on the front page of SM 5/23/07:

The Aruba Tourism Authority will be taking part in a June 27-July 1 event for travel agents only at the Hilton Hotel on 2 Poydras Street (wherever that is) in New Orleans.

The event is sponsored by www.vacations.com, not Travelocity. That was my misunderstanding.

As always, VolunteersforNatalee@gmail.com is a contact address that will try to link up anyone interested.

We confronted Aruba Tourism Authority in Boston.
We confronted Aruba Tourism Authority in Miami.
Now we can take them on in New Orleans.

Stand up for Natalee!

No justice for Natalee … no tourists for Aruba.

[msmarple]

I head Freebird earlier.it now moves me.

I saw LS "Live at the (save the) Fox" mid-70s. Awesome concert, recorded, and "Freebird" lasts a looooonnnnng time.

"Lynard Skynard" is carved in the Fox lobby now, with other major donors to the cause.

[wreck]

Also in the category of proactive things to do ... I am reposting this to draw attention to the June 17-July 1 New Orleans travel show. Richard posted this on the Front Page, and klass copied it to the travel show thread (link below).

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1003&start=80

Posted by Richard on the front page of SM 5/23/07:

The Aruba Tourism Authority will be taking part in a June 27-July 1 event for travel agents only at the Hilton Hotel on 2 Poydras Street (wherever that is) in New Orleans.

The event is sponsored by www.vacations.com, not Travelocity. That was my misunderstanding.

As always, VolunteersforNatalee@gmail.com is a contact address that will try to link up anyone interested.

We confronted Aruba Tourism Authority in Boston.
We confronted Aruba Tourism Authority in Miami.
Now we can take them on in New Orleans.

Stand up for Natalee!

No justice for Natalee … no tourists for Aruba.

The Hilton on Poydras Street is right on the Mississippi River (right at the French Quarter).

[Tiger]

I know about the Fox.We know about aruba and Natalee and her life.Such a waste.Maybe joran should have the bus get him.I don't think Paulus would put it on Joran,to close to home,better Boeti or the K2's