Lively Case Discussion #632 5/31 - 6/1/2007

[Rob]

THINGS YOU WOULD JUST RATHER NOT KNOW:

COP SUES MCDONALD'S OVER SLIMY SANDWICH

http://HTTP://WWW.FOXNEWS.COM/STORY/0,2933,276958,00.HTML

Easy- wait a sec... is there another kind?

[nonesuche]

I think the jury is still out whether the video was actually included or a facetious poke at SM, remains to be seen  

Rob I will ask out loud if you will please apologize to Anna regarding the panties event yesterday, I know you can be gallant at times so I'm hoping you can and will.

some of us old school southern rednecks don't cotton to discussions about our lingerie on the lively......thanks !!

[klaasend]

Klaas

scanned article in the Double Dutch thread at RU

Got it thanks.  It appears Lazlo translated the article in another thread and that thread was either deleted or moved to the HE area.  Even those in the Dutch thread don't understand.  I'll post the article in a moment here.

[klaasend]

[Kimmy53]

Blah, I said she took pretty pictures.  That's it.  I don't know what came over her.  Even if I knew what shoved her over to the other side, there's nothing I can do to change it.

I joke all the time about being a redneck, but when people on TV make fun of southerners, it always makes me become defensive. I think it's human nature for anyone to feel that way about their home. While I know that there are a lot of uneducated people around me making meth out in the woods in rusty trailers, I will still defend the south because it's part of me.  

The other day, a new co-worker and I were having a conversation - He is from South America, then to FL, then here to NC... He just happened to NC when a friend invited him up for a visit.  He told me that he never realized that the South would be so modern... It was always his perception that there would only be rural areas, no large cities(I know our cities don't compare to NY etc. ) and other modern things such as malls etc. would be few and far between.  

He wasn't being mean, it was just his perception.  He said when he came up for a visit, and saw how beautiful it was, saw that there were indeed industries, larger cities etc. and when he met the people here, he was sold.  He knew this is where he wanted to raise his children.  I took it as a big compliment.

[Easywriter]

THINGS YOU WOULD JUST RATHER NOT KNOW:

COP SUES MCDONALD'S OVER SLIMY SANDWICH

http://HTTP://WWW.FOXNEWS.COM/STORY/0,2933,276958,00.HTML

Easy- wait a sec... is there another kind?

lol  I tell ya, if I am at a fast food joint with a bunch of teens working behind the counter and let that thought creep into my thoughts, I can't eat.  That and other things about fast food bother me more and more.  I guess I will have to go robotic with my diet soon. lol

[Easywriter]

Blah, I said she took pretty pictures.  That's it.  I don't know what came over her.  Even if I knew what shoved her over to the other side, there's nothing I can do to change it.

I joke all the time about being a redneck, but when people on TV make fun of southerners, it always makes me become defensive. I think it's human nature for anyone to feel that way about their home. While I know that there are a lot of uneducated people around me making meth out in the woods in rusty trailers, I will still defend the south because it's part of me.  

The other day, a new co-worker and I were having a conversation - He is from South America, then to FL, then here to NC... He just happened to NC when a friend invited him up for a visit.  He told me that he never realized that the South would be so modern... It was always his perception that there would only be rural areas, no large cities(I know our cities don't compare to NY etc. ) and other modern things such as malls etc. would be few and far between.  

He wasn't being mean, it was just his perception.  He said when he came up for a visit, and saw how beautiful it was, saw that there were indeed industries, larger cities etc. and when he met the people here, he was sold.  He knew this is where he wanted to raise his children.  I took it as a big compliment.

When people visit the south for any length of time they do not want to leave.  That is a problem! lol

[BTgirl]

The other day, a new co-worker and I were having a conversation - He is from South America, then to FL, then here to NC... He just happened to NC when a friend invited him up for a visit.  He told me that he never realized that the South would be so modern... It was always his perception that there would only be rural areas, no large cities(I know our cities don't compare to NY etc. ) and other modern things such as malls etc. would be few and far between.  

He wasn't being mean, it was just his perception.  He said when he came up for a visit, and saw how beautiful it was, saw that there were indeed industries, larger cities etc. and when he met the people here, he was sold.  He knew this is where he wanted to raise his children.  I took it as a big compliment.

I have a cousin who was born in Tennessee, but her family moved to California when she was very young. She married a man who had never traveled to the south, and we didn't meet him for years and years. When he finally did come for a visit, he was seriously amazed that we lived just like people anywhere else in the country. He said he had resisted coming here for so long because he didn't know we had indoor plumbing. Seriously.    

[Easywriter]

For some reason I am compelled to say,

Fok Die Joran of Die Ditch!

[klaasend]

Criminal investigation still on  



Police and volunteers are ready for a big search operation for the disappeared teenager in June of 2005.

ORANJESTAD – Yesterday was exactly two years ago that the 18-year old American student Natalee Holloway disappeared.  The criminal investigation is still going.  The main suspect in the case, Joran van der Sloot said in April that the case will probably be closed in May, because the usual duration of criminal cases is two years.  The OM indicated that the basic principle of criminal cases in First Instance is that the trial and verdict indeed take place within two years after the ‘reasonable term’ has started.  

That reasonable term starts the moment a suspect can reasonably assume that he will be prosecuted.    This is not laid down in a specific rule, but the beginning of the reasonable term can be when the suspect is taken into custody, or when an inquest is opened against the suspect.  

“Both possibilities occurred in this criminal case”, said the OM.   Van der Sloot was taken into custody on June 9th, 2006.  The investigation and the hearing against him would have basically been concluded on this date.  But according to the OM , there are circumstances that may prolong criminal cases with more than two years, ‘without being able to say that the duration is unreasonably long”.  Circumstances are the complexity of the case, the influence of the suspect and/or his lawyer on the progress of the process and the way the case is handled by the authorized authorities.    

The reasonable term for the investigation and the settlement of the criminal case does not start on the day of the offence, says the OM.   The limitation period starts one day after the date a ‘presumptive criminal offence’ is committed.  The OM emphasizes that these two terms must clearly be distinguished from each other.  The limitation period for a life offence is 12 years, and for murder 8 years.  “When the in February proposed new Aruban Criminal Code in introduced, murder will never be precluded by the lapse of time.”  From that moment on a suspect of murder can be prosecuted, even if the suspect has been subject to location and prosecution for a few years already”, says the OM.

[Easywriter]

I’m sorry that the sensitivities of some were offended yesterday, but in reality it was a very innocent exchange and meant to be light hearted.  How it got blown out of proportion is a little mysterious, but imo it would be best to just forget that attempt at humor and move on.  It’s just not worth the apparent headache it is creating.

[Peaches]

BT, I can relate.  Everyone thinks I grew up on a farm because I'm from NE.  What a hoot.  Most of the kids I went to school with lived in town.

These same folks probably assume everyone from CO, TX, WY, MT, etc are cowboys...

[nonesuche]

Easy you are a hoot      

BT your home looks so pristine and upscale, one has to wonder if he saw photos prior to moving? I love lookout mountain too, gorgeous and the real estate prices there are pie in the sky  

Kimmy I live in NC and our city's largest realtor now has northerners on their video on the web, talking about the quality of life and why they moved here. I tell San all the time that we like yanks here too  

[Rob]

Deetch just sent me this.


http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-1777--16-16--.html
Commentary: Another whitewash, or is it? And why ignore Curacao?
Published on Friday, June 1, 2007   
By Dan McGee

Natalee Holloway. It's a name that hangs like a cloud over the island of Aruba. Her disappearance two years ago has given both the island and its Ministry of Justice a black mark.

Finally, after being on the sidelines for most of the past year-and-a-half, authorities from the Netherlands have acted.

This, of course, raises the question of just why it took them so long to discharge their judicial obligations with respect to an island that is listed as part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Considering the glare of publicity given to the initial investigation by the island's police, as well as their lack of results and possible questionable procedures, the homeland authorities had to know what was happening. Especially since units of the Dutch Air Force were sent there in what became a show of noise without results.

A skeptic might ask if the current effort is only a political move or a serious initiative for solving this crime. One possible positive aspect might be the involvement of the Aruban police charged with combating drugs on the island. But that still means a section of a department that didn't distinguish itself in the first place is again being involved.

Another question is just why the prosecutor is evidently being promoted and sent back to the Netherlands. This is the same person whose efforts at arresting then quickly releasing suspects was named a "catch-and-release program," by TV host Nancy Grace.

Now that these investigators are already on Aruba, why stop there?

On the island of Curacao there is another case that demands their attention. Like the Holloway case, this one involved the disappearance of another American woman. But, in the case of Amy Lynn Bradley, it's known that she survived. Ms Bradley was kidnapped in March 1998 as the cruise liner she and her family were vacationing on docked at the island. Some passengers reported last seeing her with two men holding on to her as they walked along a deck. Minutes later, both men were seen again without Ms Bradley.

Apparently, there are situations where unruly passengers, and maybe misbehaving crewmembers are removed from ships. Still it's a wonder that a woman, dressed only in a pair of shorts and a top, could have been taken off a ship without either being challenged or really noticed. Especially since a liner doesn't arrive at a dock without a crew there to receive it. I'll let the readers arrive at their own conclusions about this situation.

Things get even more curious in the months that followed. Shortly afterward the kidnapping, Mr Bradley and his son headed a search party that returned to the island. Upon his arrival the Chief of the Harbour Police gave Mr Bradley a tour of the island. Bradley allowed that the tour didn't inspire confidence in this effort. Later he was told that the Chief made an interesting remark to members of the search party. In effect he told them the family should go ahead and search for her and get it out of their system, as they would never find their daughter.

At first glance, this might be a comment by a man that knew the island and what the family was up against. Over the next 11 months, other events transpired to give some doubt about just what this comment implied. That fall, two Canadians encountered Ms Bradley as she was being walked along a beach. After hearing reports about her, and remembering the tattoos she had, they reported this to the family. Almost a year later, a US Navy petty officer, visiting a brothel located close to the harbor and off-limits to servicemen, met Ms Bradley. She identified herself to him and asked for his help. Unfortunately he chose not to report the incident for another two years.

When the family contacted authorities on the island, Mr Bradley said they were told, "...we have no illegal prostitutes here." By that time the brothel didn't exist, as it had been demolished after being damaged by a fire. This means that, for at least most of a year, Ms Bradley was moved around the island in broad daylight as well as enslaved in a brothel right under the nose of the harbour police. Yet during all this time both the harbour and island police failed to find her, even they both knew about her kidnapping.

Another interesting fact is that apparently no one has found or identified the brothel owner. In the Bradley case, questions need to be asked, as three offences might be involved. This writer is certain that a civilized country like the Netherlands has sanctions against kidnapping. While there is a law in the Netherlands Antilles against forcing someone into prostitution, a Caribbean women's rights site explained it's never enforced on the islands.

Finally, since it is the 200th anniversary of the ending of the trans-Atlantic slave trace, there is a chance these laws are still on the books in the Netherlands. And this offence, if still enforceable, just might be a capital crime. Both the Bradley and Holloway cases raise many questions. Another, for Aruba, is if any police or judicial officials will ever be disciplined if it's found they mishandled this case. On Curacao, will officials, and another individual, ever face justice or discipline over the Bradley case?

Both cases demand answers from the authorities based in the Netherlands, who have the judicial obligation in the islands. If these questions aren't answered, it would appear both cases will end in a whitewash and the Dutch justice system will receive a well-deserved black mark on its record. One can only guess about the repercussions to the tourist industry in these islands.

[nonesuche]

Easy I appreciate your post, I think tiger and others tried to make amends and hopefully everyone will make that effort. It's just one man's junk is another man's treasure, with my work I've often found I need to be careful of that  

I'm off to starbucks, I allow myself one trip a week now since their prices increased, anyone want a latte?

[Easywriter]

Is there a date associated with that panorama interview?

[klaasend]

Is there a date associated with that panorama interview?

It's in the current edition of Panorama, don't know the date.  It it's like the NE though it's probably dated in June.

[BTgirl]

Easy you are a hoot      

BT your home looks so pristine and upscale, one has to wonder if he saw photos prior to moving? I love lookout mountain too, gorgeous and the real estate prices there are pie in the sky  

Kimmy I live in NC and our city's largest realtor now has northerners on their video on the web, talking about the quality of life and why they moved here. I tell San all the time that we like yanks here too  

TY for the kind words about my house, None. And I'm afraid Lookout Mtn is too rich for the likes of me. That's where the Coca Cola millionaires live.

[Peaches]

Is there a date associated with that panorama interview?

He's quite the busy boy considering he is supposed to be over there in school learning something so he will be able to earn a living (note I did not say "honest living" as it likely not be applicable).  Instead he is "writing" a book,   , giving interviews to trashy magazines and rolling around in the grass for photos.  

I hope he gets a tick.

Maybe Lymes.

[klaasend]

Jon at Scrux got a copy of Lazlo's translation of the Panorama article before it was deleted at RU.  Here it is:

Joran's interview with Panorama magazine in the NL:

Suspect Joran van der Sloot about Natalee Holloway: "I thought fok that bitch".

Two years ago the 18 year old Natalee Holloway disappeared on Aruba. In the middle of the night she went away with Joran van der Sloot en did not return.

Panorama visited him!

The luxaflex from Joran's house are closed, but he is there. Not shaved-he has prepared for his exam untill late at night- he opens the door.
There are no plants, but playmates are decorating the room (pic of Joran sitting under two pics of naked woman).
We take a seat on garden chairs on a third-hand dinner table and drink cola.
Joran (19) studies International Buisiness Management on the Hogeschool Arnhem.
Prior to that he lived his whole life on Aruba.
When the tall, muscled guy talks about the sunny island his dark eyes are twinkling. It is understandable a naief girl from Alabama, like Natalee Holloway would get into the car with him in the middle of the night. What did he think of her?
"Better if I don't say that". A second later he does say it: "Easy". An American tourist like many he had prior. In his recently published book 'De zaak Natalee Holloway' Joran tells to extend about picking up young tourists. He dedicades 350 pages, very detailled-almost boring-about his life.
For example how lying is a second nature to him. How he lied since young age to his parents, teatchers and girlfriends. And how he after the disappearance of Natalee strongly lies to the entire world, including the parents of the missing girl and the police. That is why the police was on a dead lead for more then a week, and he and his friends had the time to clean up possible traces en making their stories match.

(I will now just translate merely questions and answers)

Interviewer: If you lied your entire life, why do people have to believe you now?
Joran: That is not necaissairy. Everybody lies at times. It is not something I am proud of.
Interviewer: What happened during the hours you was with Natalee?
Joran: I wrote that in the book, I do not want to tell it again.
Interviewer: But that is what it is about isn't it? You were the one who was last seen with her.
Joran: I have told it already ten times. I do not like talking about that again. I don't have to I think.
Interviewer: In what kind of state was Natalee that night?
Joran: You cannot ask me that, who am I to judge about that?
Interviewer: Was she drunk?
Joran: That is not a normal question. How would I know. I was not with her the entire night when she was drinking.
Interviewer: She fell asleep that night right?
Joran: No she did not fall asleep. She was out for a little while, I had that happening to myself also at a times. Things are twisted in such a way that it seems as if she was alseep. So I don't know what you mean by that.
Interviewer: I have read that.
Joran: I mean she was not asleep. Maybe two seconds.
(Interviewer writes his thoughts: hmz, Joran tells the police on June 13 2005: I am lying down for 10 minutes next to Natalee thinking, while she sleeps. page 159)
Interviewer: Was she unconscious?
Joran: No.
(Interviewer: Joran's best friend Freddy states on June 12 to the police that Joran had told him about the trip with Natalee, "the girl fell down several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at a certain moment the girl remained passed out and that they had left her on the beach./snippped/ especially since the phone call lasted 8 minutes)
Interviewer: I ask Joran what he talked about.
Joran lights a cigaret: What is there to tell if I only said that? I do not recall. I do not have an explanation for that.
Interviewer: You wanted to get rid of the girl, and that phonecall took place behind the Fisherman's Huts?
Joran: I went to stand there out of the wind. You cannot hear anything when you are in the wind. There was a lot of wind that night. I do recall that when the police started to talk about that phonecall.
Interviewer: Did you ask her to come with you?
Joran: I picked her up, that was just kidding.
Interviewer: It remains a strange story.
Joran: It is. I just should have taken her with me, but the intention was to leave fast.
Interviewer: Why were you in such a hurry?
Joran: To diss (get rid of her) her a little, because she wanted me to stay there with her. I thought on that moment in all honesty: fok you.
If I would have wanted to pick up the shoes, I would have to walk passing her.
When I was in the car I thought: fok that bitch. Fok those shoes, anyway.
Interviewer: Natalee was still on the beach?
Joran: It is disturbing now, but that is the way it went.
Interviewer: Disturbing.
Joran: Yes, it is disturbing that I have to tell all this. It of course is not something to be proud of when you leave a girl behind like that. That is one of the reasons I lied. I do not think I lied without a reason or something like that.
Interviewer: Why did you not tell the truth right away, like it is now in your book?
Joran: That is also because of the police. Every time I tell something, I just have to make one slip of the tongue and they are screwing me again. I thought at a certain moment: I am not going to cooperate one centimeter. f*** you. If you think I did something then go prove it. I know I did nothing. So I was basically just thinking about myself.
Interviewer: Did you think about Natalee's parents during that period?
Joran: No.
Interviewer: Why not?
Joran: I did nothing wrong. I feel bad because I left her at the beach. that for sure. But I do not feel sorry for her parents one bit. What they did was worse then what I did.
Interviewer: Because they called for a boycot Aruba?
Joran: Of course! That is insane!
Interviewer The police did an unannounced search at your parents home.
Joran: Someone had some gossip story, that she was in the well at our home. So they came to our house. They have looked if she was burried under the cement of the swimmingpool that has been there for four years.
Interviewer: The entire garden has been digged up.
Joran: Yes, my father and me have laughed about it. When I heard it I called my father. He just got home. He was laughing also. He told me that they had a search warrant to look for her. He allowed them to search the entire house. One can only laugh about that. I told my father: tell the investigators Joran send his greetings. But he did not think that was funny.
Interviewer: What is the biggest misconception that excists about you?
Joran: The US media have called me a murderer. But who I find worse is Peter R. de Vries. For him I had a bucket with water ready. When he was here and wanted to talk to me I ran upstairs, I thought I am going to pull the water over him and his babycamera's.
Interviewer (first mentioned the photshopped pic) : But you made that pic as a joke?
Joran: No, that is not true. I do not want to go into that I do take fault for that a little. I knew about it.
Interviewer: Is it not somewhat morbid to have someone make such a picture?
Joran: I do not want to go into that.
Interviewer: Why not?
Joran: Normally. It was not intended as sick humor.
Interviewer (I want to know why he wrote the book)
Joran: For me, I wanted to write it of me to be able to leave it behind.
Interviewer: You purely did it to be able to coope with it?
Joran: Why else would I do it?
Interviewer: To talk yourself out of it.
Joran: For whom would I have to talk myself out of it? That is the last thing that I would need to do.
Interviewer: How much money did you make with it?
Joran: That is none of your business.
Don't you think it is wrong that you are earning money on the disappereance of Natalee?
Joran: What a shit question that is.
 
 
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