Lively Case Discussion #501 7/24 - 7/26/2006

[klaasend]

Anything wrong with this timeline entry?

March 26: Photos uploaded to Webshots by Bailey Anne, an American girl who traveled to Aruba with her friend Alyse.  During their trip she stayed at the Wyndham hotel, across the street from the Mills Resort.  Bailey's photos show that on their last night in Aruba, the 2 girls encountered Joran, Deepak, Joran's friend Freddy Arambatzis, and Steffy, an Aruban girl who also knew Joran.   There is some speculation that a separate photo of Steffy, dated March 10 and showing her lying in bed at least partially unclothed, in what appears to be a room at the Mills Resort, was also taken on their last night in Aruba.  It appears from Bailey's photos that she and Alyse left CnCs with Joran and the other 3.  One photo, taken from the back seat of a vehicle as it passes Diamonds International, shows Deepak driving with Joran sitting next to him in front, while the vehicle's 2 DVD players are showing the same porno DVD.  Months later, during interrogation, Deepak admits that while Natalee was in his car, she was shocked when Satish put on a porno DVD.

Shiz - I'm not positive of the March 10th date but maybe Sleuth knows more about it.  Other than that, looks right to me.  Didn't Deepak say they were passing by La Cabana when they put the porn video in that Natalee was shocked at?  La Cabana would be south of The Mill Resort if I'm not mistaken.

[msmarple]

Mrs. Red - Re. your question.

I have followed crime stories, particularly child abductions, for years. Pedophilia/murder is the most terrible crime IMO.

The Holloway case is the first that lured me into the world of internet forums.

Like many of us, I am a parent, Georgia native (some family in Alabama), so I felt those kinds of connections.

I followed, but was not so immersed in the case, until the weekend of June 11 2005 ("We have a confession" etc.). As soon as that happened, I knew that a resolution was a long, long way off - if ever.

But I think the thing that MOST gripped me was the anti-victim machine. I remember compiling all the Trash Beth/Natalee/Jug/Dave posts from one 8-hour period here at SM last summer. I think I even sent you (or somebody) an email about it.

This - the spin machine - has distinguished this case from any other that I can recall. I think we've unfortunately witnessed a social phenomenon.

[mrs. red]

I'm sorry, but I haven't read back tonight.  {bad girl} Do we have any news, any news at all?  I'm afraid to ask...

  other people might know more on the Natalee case than I do, Lady...  as far as I know ~ nothing is really new, in the news, at least...

There's a new little girl missing...  and I'm hoping to pray her home soon...  and I saw that ummm  I forget her name... she just got a second trial ~ the woman who drowned her children in the bathtub...

I'm sorry, Mrs. Red ~ I know you can't stand her...  but, my heart breaks for her...  I think she was crazy when she did that...  that she honestly thought she was doing what was best for them...  Oh God.........

Katz.. she definately needs prayers.... but it's hard for me to believe she didn't know what she was doing....

[oldfart]

Mrs Red

Please ask your question before I have to leave...... Please.

Sorry.. my computer is so slow with dana on....

What I wonder is this... and it's my own curosity... nothing bad or wrong with it either way...

I have noticed that as passionate as we all are about Natalee, who in my opinion has brought missing people's cases forward that we sometimes don't seem too engerigized about other cases... why is that?

Just curois....

Mrs Red

Damn... I was expecting such a thought provoking question  that I have to attempt to put into words.. Hope you see this.

Ok..
I hope I word this correctly.. and I'm not nearly as aware of other missing person cases and details of them as Natalee's
BUT

It is the investigation.. in more ways than I can put words to now.  
Those little that things that are not much alone but when thrown together they become  a whole different thing.  (like a single piece of a jig saw puzzel as compared to the whole thing)

Just a couple of quickies
~~~~If Joarn & Deepak had said night one...
Deepak dropped us off at the beach   we walked to huts... she wanted to stay... I walked/called ?? and went home  but this is were you need to have the scent dogs start at.

~~~~If an Aruba  govt. spokes person had not announced that they were being led to where her body was.

~~~~ Bulldozers / heavy equipment access  ( GIVE me a Fxxxxx break)

{Bracing for this}
Natalee is missing person.. where there is NO hard evidence of a crime commited against her (that we know about).  Statements yes.. but other items ???

A lot more circumstantial items that where in many, many 100's or 100's of missing person cases they have nothing, just nothing except  last seen at xxx time & location to go on.

I try to put my mind in a place here in the US  where a Town with a population near that of the COUNTRY of Aruba and this occured.

What would have occured?  When would the town have asked for outside help and let them take a lead.  (When did they ask for Dutch assistance?)

When would the peple of the U.S. town have taken to the streets and demanded answers and accountability from the people that are in charge?

Bottom line for me and my passion...

#1 Resolution for Natalee's family and friends  
#2 Possible exposure of a police / government cover up to propect individauls
#3 Possibly maybe just possibly be part of something that assists a people (group / country) in realizing that they are only truly free when they Make a stand and can  question and DEMAND accountablity from those that govern them

[KatzHome]

She knew what she was doing, Mrs. Red...  she just thought that they would go to Hell if she allowed them to live...

152% crazy, Mrs. Red...

And the first trial verdict of prison, instead of a mental hospital ~ there was a "expert" for the prosecution who lied...

[mrs. red]

Ms. Marple,  I have followed cases before, but like you, this is the first forum I ever participated in...

and I certainly did not mean to imply that we should not keep on keeping on..... I was just curious ... I am here for Natalee until the end.... I just wondered....

[mrs. red]

She knew what she was doing, Mrs. Red...  she just thought that they would go to Hell if she allowed them to live...

152% crazy, Mrs. Red...

And the first trial verdict of prison, instead of a mental hospital ~ there was a "expert" for the prosecution who lied...

but that lie was only about a Law & Order episode.. you may be right... it's just so hard for me to understand... .are they petitioning to move her to a mental health facility ??

[KatzHome]

  I just ate something for the first time today about an hour ago...  and my stomach is beginning to act up a little...  ::sigh::  it was good all day after this morning...

Maybe a little Irish Cream will help...  ::sigh::


Sorry for that interruption....

[KatzHome]

She knew what she was doing, Mrs. Red...  she just thought that they would go to Hell if she allowed them to live...

152% crazy, Mrs. Red...

And the first trial verdict of prison, instead of a mental hospital ~ there was a "expert" for the prosecution who lied...

but that lie was only about a Law & Order episode.. you may be right... it's just so hard for me to understand... .are they petitioning to move her to a mental health facility ??

Yes ~ that's what they're asking for...  I think she really needs it...

[2NJSons_Mom]

I'm not mrs. red, OF, but I follow your thoughts about this case...FWIW...I always understand your posts, and appreciate & support them.

[msmarple]

Don't get me started on Mrs. Yates and Mrs. Winkler ... but I don't have a good feeling about some of these fundamentalist churches.

[mrs. red]

I want to be really clear monkeys.. I in no way meant to say that I don't want to continue 100% support... I just wondered if anyone follows other cases and why  or why not....

I guess maybe I phrased that wrong???

[KatzHome]

I'm going to be back and forth from the computer...  Safe Nest just called...  clothing donation pick-up tomorrow morning...

And they got me at a good time...  I've lost 35 lbs., since joining Weight Watchers online through the Monkey link to Amazon, at the end of January...

End of commercial break...  


P.S.  And Safe Nest is a really cool place...  for abused women and their children ~ or men too, I guess...  or families who are unable to provide a roof over their children's heads ~ this way the family can stay together ~ instead of being broken up ....

[tcumom]

I want to be really clear monkeys.. I in no way meant to say that I don't want to continue 100% support... I just wondered if anyone follows other cases and why  or why not....

I guess maybe I phrased that wrong???

You know what?  I'd give anything if the Monkeys had been around where Chandra Levy *disappeared*.  I've always thought Gary Condit was the only person who *benefitted* from 9/11.      
Hope I don't offend anyone.  Just my thoughts.

[klaasend]

I want to be really clear monkeys.. I in no way meant to say that I don't want to continue 100% support... I just wondered if anyone follows other cases and why  or why not....

I guess maybe I phrased that wrong???

Mrs. Red - I think alot of people here have never followed a case until this one.  Some may not even want to after all the garbage the family has gone through this last year.

[mrs. red]

Don't get me started on Mrs. Yates and Mrs. Winkler ... but I don't have a good feeling about some of these fundamentalist churches.

I know exactly what you mean.... I go to Chruch every Sunday, but I agree with you on that one....there are those that are extreme.

[KatzHome]

I know what you mean, Ms.Marple...  and no ~ I don't think anyone took you wrong, Mrs. Red...  {{{hugs}}} you guys....  all you guys....

[msmarple]

I want to be really clear monkeys.. I in no way meant to say that I don't want to continue 100% support... I just wondered if anyone follows other cases and why  or why not....

I guess maybe I phrased that wrong???

I do follow others, not necessarily in forums; I read at CourtTV sometimes.

It's just that MOST of the time, thankfully, there is an arrest. Then I watch for the trial and try to follow it too. (And then buy the book; e.g., Ann Rule.)

[mrs. red]

I want to be really clear monkeys.. I in no way meant to say that I don't want to continue 100% support... I just wondered if anyone follows other cases and why  or why not....

I guess maybe I phrased that wrong???

You know what?  I'd give anything if the Monkeys had been around where Chandra Levy *disappeared*.  I've always thought Gary Condit was the only person who *benefitted* from 9/11.      
Hope I don't offend anyone.  Just my thoughts.

I agree....

[2NJSons_Mom]

G'nite, monkey peoples....I'm heading out.