Lively Case Discussion #633 6/2 - 6/3/2007

[Easywriter]

If I were Jug I would write a book called "Shock the World" and blow the doors off of Aruba.. F them!!!!!

Me too Rob!!  It's time to pull off the gloves. F them All!!

Fok die Joran, die Deepak, die Satish, die Paulus.......

[Tibrogargan]

...sorry the one we read her supposed to be written by deepak?

That is what I understand. Said he had authenticated it and spoke to person who received it?  Also via Dan Riehl

[Lala'sMom]

Accoarding to Hodges...the dropping her off at the HI is indicative of where he left the body...I didn't say I understood it...just saying ....claims that Deepak is trying to tell us where the body is.

[Lala'sMom]

Claims Deepak is suffering from "unconsious guilt". That he wants the body discovered.

[Lala'sMom]

Dr. doesn't think any of the 3 perps will ever come forward with info until something breaks.

[bleachedblack]

06/23/2005 1:02 AM      
 

for what it is worth, here are emails that deepak sent to his friend prior to being arrested:

dated 6/5/2005


How are you i hope you and your family is fine.(NAME DELETED) is better i tell you the truth , before it will be a shock for you later, but i think it will be a shock for you rightnow.
The missing girl natalee hollaway,I spoke to her , sunday she left with me , my brother and a friend from carlos n' charlies , it was my car like the news said she got in to, I am one of the persons of intrest , i am one the the students they've questioned and released as they claimed in the news .
Let see where to start i don't even know where to begin these last days where so crazy for me i'm very tired haven't slept good in days : The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she begged him and he still said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without or parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee was VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away, so then we were just talking etc, in the car and then she said she wanted to see sharks ,it was by the lighthouse she saw them before that can we go , my friend said ok ,deepak lets go. so on my my to the lighthouse there was music playing and noone talking for a while when i looked in the backmirror my friend and natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will ) so my brother siad just leave them for a while untill we get to the lighthouse, when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights) so after like 10 min my friend is telling me that natalee fell asleep i said you kidding just wake her up and tell ask her if its holiday inn for sure she is staying so my friend woke her up and confirmed with natalee she was staying at the holiday inn, so i drove to the lobby driveway of holiday inn and then we woke her up, she got out of the car and fell on the floor my friend said damn she fell and then rushed out of the same door natalee came out and picked her up immediately, after she stood up she pushed my friend and said leave me alone or something like that i can't recall , my friend offered to help het to her room she said no. she he stepped in the car and while i was driving away i saw natalee walking towards the lobby and a gentleman with a walkie talkie and black clothes approached her and i think they were talking and i had never seen natalee again sinds.(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby) it was around 2.15 am .monday i came to work normally 4- 11 pm after work i called my friend i said whats up he said ok i'm at the raddison casino meet me there , i said ok so i went there we played poker , we had some drinks and chat and then we had enough and decided that this casino was booring lets go to whyndham hotel casino . so i drove to whyndham and as i was parking my friends dad called him and said the police is at his home with some family members its about the girl you guys went out with yesterday , so my friend said wait there i be there, so we rushed at my friends home and there was the police and nataless family and it was a nightmare sinds then. the police asked us if we knew this girl showed us a picture we said yes thats her , they said she was missing and eyewitness say she was the last seen with you guys . so they asked a few more questions and we said we don't understand we left her at holiday inn lobby drive way how could she dissapear and then natalees stepfather jumped and said ''yes thats because after she went with you assholes she lost'' and then my friends father jumped and said thats enough you can't talk to the kids like that this is not the us your out of you juristiction this is not the way i want you people out of my yard i know the law (my friends father is e judge) so afterwards another family member of natalee suggested to the police if we can id the security gard we said ok. we went there there was no suck security working there as we discribed. so then we were just standing in the lobby there were questions etc. asked by other members , and then me and my friend walked to the car natalees mom was sitting and we said mam you have to believe us we did not do anything with you daughter, she was crying and said i don't believe you 2 , i promise you i will make you life a living hell because of this . anwyas we said we were sorry again ans that we will help in any way possible.i went home 7 pm tuesday, i was then called 2 pm by the police for questioning i went gave a statement they said i was a witness no suspect the same went for my brother and my friend they were questionded and had to sign their statement also , the checked my car and i was clear to go , wednesday i was called again to show them how i drove the route that day ( i could refuse was my right i still decided to go , as did my brother and friend ) the drove us one by one and then we were free to go again.thursday morning my friend called me (he goes to aruba international school and his mother is a teacher there and he is a straight A student ) in panic and said there a re family members here at school and they are sharing flyers and the flyers said : GIRL KIDNAPPED ASK JORAN VANDER SLOOT (thats my friends name ) the principle asked them to leave and they did .so thats my part of the story yesterday and today it was quiet no treathen phoncalls what we got before and i won't mention the crazythings the newspapers etc. writes about us its to much to mention. at home my mom is losing it she is cryimg constantly , my dad bloodpressure got high also his hands are red , my friends home is a disaster also ,his mom is crying constantly also his dad is pretty cool he calmes us down and talks to us also not to worry , my brother is preety cool but on his face you see he is worried , my friend is pretty worried also. i'm pretty worried also , we have 2 lawyers one for my friend and one for me in case we get arrested and charched with something his dad can't defend hin he is a judge and he is too emotional attached .my friend has his graduation this thursday he has to go to the states in july he has a full scholarship. i had to go to vacation also end of this month.many politicians find we should be locked up rightnow.We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead , she was seen with 2 guys , her hair is cut and is red now ,she was in a crackhouse etc, we were arrested and , my car is by the police we confessed to murder and rape, she went in a restaurant to buy food but none of those were true.So (name deleted) that was my part of the story what i said here is the same in my statement,people are saying they are bad guys lock them up , the family is going thru a lot righnow , but what they don't know how the other families feel and how they also have a reputation and carreers etc. because when this all is over they will still be talks that were the 3 guys that had something to do with the kidnap of natalee its a small island.they don't understand the pressure we are having also, if this girl turns up dead we have a problem we were the last seen with her . I lost a lot of friends who think we had to do something with this, many of my friends supported us also brought food etc. for us at home and know we are innocent, we are innocent also we promise i would NEVER hurt anyone in anyway, i would do every everything to help find her thats what we told eveyone also , i would take a bullet to save her and bring her back to her family if i had to so would my friend also.i would never never hurt anyone i'm a very happy and social person who likes to make friends with people and not hurting them


So (NAME DELETED) i will say goodbye now hope you believe me and i pray to god that they find natalee soon and find her well so that this nightmare ends for all of us and they we prove we had nothing to do with this, i hope you pray for all of us say hi to everyone there hope to hear from you soon and may god bless.........

bye bye

Deepak.

http://www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/22-133972-1.html

[Sam]

He's making referneces to rooms and containers as images, but I am afraid I am losing him on this.  Claims that Deepak refers to rooms and bars and this is some kind of thought print.  I don't understand it.

Thank you Lalas for transcribing.

Now Lals remember you are a Shango Tango gal. Just think like that . LOL

[Lala'sMom]

Dr. Hodges claims that Deepak unconsiously tells us where to look for Natalee's body.

[IndyDan]

If I were Jug I would write a book called "Shock the World" and blow the doors off of Aruba.. F them!!!!!

Me too Rob!!  It's time to pull off the gloves. F them All!!

AGREED, Im with you guys!  

Rob, let's talk.  Email me, we need to re-examine some details and make some inquiries!  Anyone else interested in doing the same, email Rob or myself.  

WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

I'm interested

[Lala'sMom]

Dr. Hodges has spoken with Vinda De Sousa about his ideas.  Indicated that he was close to what they were thinking too.

[BTgirl]

Not that it counts for anything, but my gut feeling has always told me that Natalee is in the ocean. I hope he and Tim are right and can finally get the evidence.  

[Tibrogargan]

Hey Angie.  Do we have a new monkey?  I think I saw a new poster on the lively today.

Hi Lala's.  We have a new motor cycle riding monkey named Destiny.

I would give this Doctor a lot more credence if he was stating all this 2 years ago and not now after everything has been looked at every way possible.

[Lala'sMom]

Dana is pointing out that Dr. Hodges impressions are not a definite forensic evidence.  Talking about admissability in court.  States that Deepak equates a PV with this email.  I don't understand how he thinks this could be admissable in court. He's a bit foggy on that one too.

[robots]

dropped at the holiday inn

robots translation = dropped "IN" to something

[robots]

Hey Angie.  Do we have a new monkey?  I think I saw a new poster on the lively today.

Hi Lala's.  We have a new motor cycle riding monkey named Destiny.

I would give this Doctor a lot more credence if he was stating all this 2 years ago and not now after everything has been looked at every way possible.

me too    

[IndyDan]

If I were Jug I would write a book called "Shock the World" and blow the doors off of Aruba.. F them!!!!!

Me too Rob!!  It's time to pull off the gloves. F them All!!

Fok die Joran, die Deepak, die Satish, die Paulus.......

At this point, I'm giving up on being optimistic. The California case killled my hope.  It's time for Shock and Awe.  
I hope they all die and sooner than later.

[Lala'sMom]

Doesn't think  the email would ever see the light of day in court.


Talking about Joran...claims that he's confessing in between the lines.  Hodges says Natalee was never alone on the beach with Joran.  Dr. says she was never on the beach.

Joran claiming he left her on the beach...and she drown in the ocean is an indication that she is in the water.  Joran's reference to walking back to the beach to look for his shoes is an indication that she's in the water.


Thinks all 3 were there when she died.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Talking about Deepak email........

Dr said he made certain it was from Deepak and talked to the person in whom he sent it to?  

 Umm is he talking about WW?  She is the one who put it out there?  <my words>

Says poitive Deepak wrote it. but in his professional opinion. email he says.. do we have a confession? Looks for communication images..
Starts out saying he is gonna tell the truth.. <deepak>   A story.. association to Natalee.  Dr looks for things.. though print patterns.. loks for hints for a confession.
  There is cleraly a death code.. he said the missing girl.... mispelling her name.  Talking about her falling at the HI.. etc.. looking for sympblic thoughts.. sees a sexual induendo code..
  Thoughts of sudden death.. they lost her.. what would of happened.. DR feels they were choking her.. neck.. something around her neck.. at crucial moments Deepak .. in his email.. he feels she was assualting her.. he feels she aspirated.
  Dr feels shes in a container in the ocean..   he says think of something that contains a bodt.. Natalee is often in Deepaks car.. he even speaks of a bathtub.. striking things that Deepak sats she fals on the floor..another container can be a room,, where someone stays.. Deepak gives a small space inside a larger space. Its in sequence. Deepak tells the stroy scene by scene as if he is a movice director.
  Perfect scne.. they have her alone. shes in the backseat of his car.. perfect opp. to where they left the body.   Dr says its impossible for to have to speask on Hannity and COlmes in 2 minutes.
 Deepak wants them to find the body he says.. he looked Beth in the eyes and lied to her.. Beth had tears in her eyes..
   Deepak is miserable and whats the body found. Unconscience guilt the dr says.
 Dr feels something is gonna have to happen.. they need to be split.
 Deepak says in his letter. if they find they body.. we are gonan be in trouble. Says this email links Deepak to the body. Hes telling us where to search for the body.  Dave Hollowaty agrees.. DAR feels the body is discoverable.  Dr had a convo with Vinda..  an early profile.. her and KJ were impressed with the DR .. Arubans not showing FBI anything.. etc.
   Danas next ? ..  taking something like this to court?
Dr says this approach may be entered into court. Deepak links his letter,. equated police statement with his letter.  Admissable in court? I am sorry I missed that??  
  Dr feels there is hope for the future..  if the boys lawyers up.. Deepak he feels is linked to the body.
 No question ... Joran comes up with a story about the beach., they were neevr alone. he feels they were all with her to the end.  Joran makes an absurd comment she wondered in the ocean and drowned.  Dr says means shes in the water. Joran said he could have chekced the area.. and didnt.  3 boys killed her accidently and buried the body.  They are pointing fingers.

[Tylergal]

Carnac lede in by Dana.  Mount Baldy.  What Mrs Yul Brenner did on her honeymoon, etc.

Elvis music.  Hard Knocks.

Monkey (Monkees) theme/bumper music.

Tonight.  Did you catch Hannity & Colmes, with guest Dr. Andrew Hodges, who has developed a method of profiling and examining oral messages = thought print.  He has theories through his thought print regards Natalee.  H&C (Dana thinks blew it).  They split-screened him with Tim Miller, who is going back not based on anything Dr. Hodges has to say, it became embarrassing.  He will join Dana in a minute and after that, "Exposed" author, Stephanie Good.

Johnny B. Goode (Chuck Berry).

Dana.  Dr. Andrew G. Hodges (see above) regards developing thought print decoding.  The unconscious mind posseses an intelligene deeper than our conscious mind. . . .

Dana thinks producers of H&C handled poorly, welcome of Dr. Hodges.

Dana states he did not think it was a well-done interview (H&C) and thinks the hosts were blind-sided, discussing Tim Miller - and how this was counter-productive and neither was able to counter the other --- he thinks they made it look as though Tim were going back based on thoughtprint.  Dr. Hodges has talked extensively with Dave.  Dave has tried to reach the Dutch.  Dr. Hodges is on team Holloway-Twitty and he and Tim are part of the same team, but they have not had extensive discussions and Dave is more familiar with him than Tim is, and Dr. Hodges thinks this was a poorly informed interview (interviewer).  He talked to Beth before going on and has talked extensively with Dave.  

Dana says he contacted him at urging of "audience." (monkeys?).

Dr. Hodges & Dana have swapped e-mails.  Dana is telling him of his past career and present work in law enforcement and looking at statement analysis, what their statement, written and verbal means.  Dana took a course in statement analysis.  The trainer was an Israeli Avignon Kapoor (pop in audio).  

He says his work is not like that, but 25 years in research.  He has an M.D. and Ph.D.  he has helped validate the thoughts of unconscious mind.  He did not "invent it" but validated it.  The unconscious mind is brilliant.  He spoke with FBI who wanted him to get into profiling.  He went from O.J. Simpson to JOn Benet Ramsey and BTK Killers, been hired by families in various cases.  He says his work has come mostly out of work with unconscious mind and has worked with law enforcement but not totally familiar with Dana's work in statement analysis.

If you take a written statement (accusatory or not) look at verbals, look between the lines and look and you can question that based on it, using their words.  

Dr. Hodges refers to using first-hand witnesses and witness statements.  He came in contact with an E-mail that Deepak wrote.  E-mail is E-mail and anyone can send and make it sound like anything.

Dana wants the e-mail discussed.  Dr. Hodges has talked to the person to whom it was sent.  It appeared on the Internet.  The person who put it out took a lot of heat (Wonder Woman).  Dan Riehl asked him to look at the e-mail and one of the MB mothers.  HE has interviewed a lot of students and people who were with Beth.  He knew that whoever wrote it knew a lot about the case.  He is positive in his professional opinion that Deepak wrote it.

Now, Dana asking for it to be broken down.  He is using for message markers.

Deepak starts out with powerful markers.  He starts out promising I will tell the story, the shocking truth.  This is a story and from beginning to end, he promises to tell.  He promises a confession.  He is now looking for thought print patterns.  

First question?  Is Natalee dead or alive.  You can look and tell if the person is dead.  There was clearly a death code.  He said the "missing girl, Natalee Holloway..."   She fell down, she got out of car -- this indicates she is dead.    She is dead.  What happened.  There are several sexual inunendos refer to rape, poker, blackjock.  No prob, no probe.
 
Joran had his hand in her blouse...no denial.  She was assaulted in the backseat.  There were sudden thoughts.  Suddenly the gambing stopped, the car stopped.  IT is clearly a sexual event.  She choked --- they were choking her during sex.  It is very clear.  Deepak 8-9 times said she is out ...he says he is not seeing her.  Someone is assaulting her.  They missed that she needed to throw up.  She aspirated.  Where is the body?  Numerous thought prints point to ocean, container.  

The thought prints to container and ocean.  Dana asks.  The container -- something that contains body -- throughout e-mail (container - car, boat, bathtub). Deepak talks about taking a bath, could be a bathtub.  Striking is that they talk about Natalee fell, she fell on floor and they kept asking her where is she staying?  Hotel.  Room is an address.  A container of people in a space.  One thing he does (Deepak) gives small space within a large space, bar within a bar, room within a hotel, she is in a container.  When they drop her off, Deepak tells the story scene by scene.  Where is he going to tell us they sexually assaulted her?  When they first got her alone in the car, in the backseat.  He describes that there was sex.  They dropped her off.  Where did you leave the body?  Where she stayed?  Container image.  Could be bathtub, could be a container in ocean, water and container are involved.  Impossible in 2-4 minutes to explain.

Deepak is telling where body is.  He unconsciously wants the body found.  He looked Beth in the eye and lied to her.  He told her.  She promised to make his life a living hell.  Deepak is miserable and wants Natalee found.

Dana:  We have analyzed this for two years.  We see and speculate and maybe it is part of his law enforcement, you may not have forensic evidence, but you have three suspects who are still suspects to this day.  Will this unconsciuos guilt become conscious?  Will someone testify against the other.

Doctor says no.  They have tried to break them.  To me, and Deepak says in letter, "if they find the body, we are in trouble...no body, no case.."  Deepak is saying find the body and solve the case.  The E-mail links Deepak to the case.  This e-mail links them to the body.  He is telling us specifically where to search for this body.  He and Dave had agreeement on this.  Without giving away the secret, Dave is in agreement and think they know where body is.

Dana asks if it went to ALE.  Talked to vin desouza.  Talked to karin jansin.  Dr. Hodges was trying to get witness statements.  Karin & Vin de Souza are impressed with him but they will not let him see police interviews.  They wanted to qualify him as an expert witness.  ALE DID NOT SHOW FBI ANYTHING.  

Aruba is not open to anything.  Experts not wanted.  

Dana asks as they are running out of time.  Taking this to court.  Defense lawyers would say this is just an interpretation.  Dana has had people with statement analysis and admits this is not DNA.

dr. Hodges says an attorney who supports his work from California, was in the court where DNA was first admittted and thinks this approach will someday be admitted.  Deepak makes case for this approach to be admissable in court.  He says this is his statement to police, this is my statement.  He equates E-mail with his police statement.  He thinks one day this can occur to use it in court, but not now.  Deepak admits this is quite admissable in his unconscious mind.  I think we are establishing the verbal mind, the psychology of the mind to forensic science.  He thinks this is the wave of the future.  Suppose (Dr. Hodges says) if these boys lawyer up and the body is found, this would be persuasive to a jury (the e-mail) but it would be up to lawyers but it would not see the light of day in Aruba.  That's a whole other court.  

Asking about Paulus.  He says Joran's interviews and all in this, Joran comes up with this story that he left her on the beach.  He was never alone with her on the beach, she was never alone with one.   there were these three boys all together.  He says he left Natalee alone.  He means he left her alone (left her asleep).  He says she is in the ocean dead, not wandering around asleep near beach.

I came near the area and I could have gone over to check to see if Natalee still there.  ? ? ? He is telling you --think of Natalee asleep in the ocean and she is staying asleep in water.  Deepak, Satish and Joran killed her accidentally and buried the body.  They are pointing fingers at each other.  He is going back through the "Joran killed her, Deepak killed" and it means they all three killed her.

He thinks if a body is found, there is an answer.

Break, next Stephanie Good.

Dana says, "can you say speculation?" ????

[bleachedblack]

Dr Hodges says the 3 were together until the end with Natalee.

Can you say speculation? (Dana's last comment)