Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[blah]

anyhow, thats my prediction and I expect it will come true within the next couple weeks.

Blah,
They may archive it but if they mark it officially closed, they have to release the files to the parents and for whatever evil reasons, they don't want to do that.  Anyone else on earth can get them but not the parents.

I doubt they do that OFFICIALLY but in actual fact, you may well be right that this is where this is going.  I hope and pray not but logically I can see it happening.  They just won't call it closed.  Inactive maybe but not closed so they can protect those files or at least scrub them squeaky clean.

.

just because Arlene told us that, doesnt make it true.

Besides, there isnt anything in those "records" that is good enough to go to trial on.  

If the Dutch are really condcuting an investigation, they musty be looking into the alien theory because they sure are not conducting an investigation that invlolves the last known people to be seen with Natalee.

Why have they not at least attempted to question anyone?

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas!

Do you have like a big Mary Poppins bag where you keep everything we might need???

LOL - nope but I have ways of searching front page posts that you guys don't have, lol  

 
klaas

The codetalker who said they corresponded with Simian (Rob and I posted about this the other day) also mentioned that Simian posted under several other nics.

The ones I remember offhand were:
MerrianErnest
Gordo

Do you know if there is any truth to that? Or are they all fakes?

(Or possibly you can't disclose -- which I would respect)

I'm still organizing all this 'stuff' we were told early on for my brain to process -- trying to get a handle on the extent of the misinformation campaign.

The only names the "real" Simian posted under on the front page of SM were:

Simian
Baboon
Mono

I base this upon the email address used (the same for the names I listed) and the location of the IP (Aruba).

[JusticeforNatalee]

To respond to the LA Times article that Hotshot posted on Page 1 of this thread --

Letters to the Editor --

If you would like to make a comment about a specific news article, editorial or commentary and have it considered for publication in the newspaper as a Letter to the Editor, please send it to letters@latimes.com -- send well-written individual letters only; no group e-mails. Do not send attachments. (Letters regarding Orange County issues specifically should be sent to ocletters@latimes.com.)

Letters should be brief, and may be edited. They become the property of The Times and may be republished in any format. Please include your full name, mailing address and daytime phone number (your number will not be published). For complete guidelines, call (800) LATIMES, Ext. 74511.

Readers' Representative Office

If you have questions or concerns about The Times' journalistic standards and practices (such as story coverage in general), or if you believe we have made an error, then please submit your comment to the Readers' Representative Office instead. Thank you

Link to Readers Representative Office (referenced above):

http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-readersrep-cf,0,3057606.customform
Gives you an email template type thing.

Writer of the article:
carol.williams@latimes.com

I did a quick search - this Carol Williams seems to do a lot of stories out of Miami. Probably the Caribbean too.

DO WRITE!

Excellent links! And even more effective than contacting the writer of the article.

[Tylergal]

That Bosch washer and dryer are taking care of the laundry and I am back, reading what everyone says with interest.  If what Blah states is true, then it must be the reason the presstitute was out this morning with her fantasy story to the LA Times.  

We have seen this from other corners before, denigrate the victim.  That is Julia Renfro's intention and as she keeps it up, she will become more transparent.  Her skin is thin and she fights like a cornered rat, and the Rats Unleased continue to support her, but to be honest, their rants are singing to the larger choir of rats.  

I believe in order to maintain any legitimacy, the Dutch have to do something on or before 6/9.  If not, then the case may be closed theoretically while they maintain it is still open.  I would hope if that is the case, the war between Aruba vis a vis Rudy Croes and the NL will continue full stride and though we may not be able to hand a conviction of these perps on a platter to Dave & Beth, our continued scrutinty of Rat Island can keep it on the front burner.  Our continued scrutiny of the NL can keep this fire roaring between them.

Incidentally, did you notice that Made's parents have gone to the NL where they believe resides of a nest of pedophiles protected under Dutch law, similiar to the amnesty Joran has been given.

[sharon]

I was out of town last week and weekend -- big heartfelt thanks to everyone who posted summaries from Kimberly, Peter, Dana and the newest ridiculous interview with the delicious sporter

I remember after Joran did one of his interviews -- either Greta or Cuomo -- a document was released with results from a 'voice analyzer'??

I think I read the document on BFN when I used to post there (or maybe Michelle's site). I believe the analysis was requested by Dave Holloway?

Does anyone else remember this??? Very damning and damaging for the sporter (what a big surprise).

Is this the same guy as you have been discussing this morning??


Off to work, but....

have computer with internete access, will lurk -- sharon

(anyone remember -- have gun, will travel -- wire palladin??)

[blah]

anything in those files that may have been incriminating was long ago removed.  This is a big part of the reason they are trying so hard to destroy Beth's credibility, so anything she has seen in the past, and has now been reomved, will just be chalked up to her lack of credibility.  It was never there and you cannot trust a word Beth or her journal says.  That is their goal.

[Dayhiker]

I'm surprised they made it this long without being exposed.  If some of those tourists that got caught up in Joran's web of deceit had come forward, this might not have happened!

In her opening statemets this writer subconsciously sends a bad message to all parents who read her article.


In Holloway case, Aruba also suffers

ORANJESTAD, ARUBA — A siren blares and whistle-blowing waiters race in to the hectic beat of the "Mexican Hat Dance." It's time for the hourly tequila attack at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

The target is an already inebriated blond with seven gal pals, a sunset-colored rum drink and a sunburned nose. The waiters crown her with a giant sombrero, toss a serape over her bare shoulders and pour a stream of golden liquid into a mouth turned up like a baby bird's.

Liquor-plying mission accomplished, a DJ swaps the peppy Mexican melody for a blaring rendition of dance group T-Spoon's "Sex on the Beach."

[sharon]

The only names the "real" Simian posted under on the front page of SM were:

Simian
Baboon
Mono

I base this upon the email address used (the same for the names I listed) and the location of the IP (Aruba).

Thanks!

Very helpful info.

Always a bit disappointing to discover another liar, though  

Maybe they weren't lieing intentionally (and maybe the moon IS made of green cheese)

[Anna]

anything in those files that may have been incriminating was long ago removed.  This is a big part of the reason they are trying so hard to destroy Beth's credibility, so anything she has seen in the past, and has now been reomved, will just be chalked up to her lack of credibility.  It was never there and you cannot trust a word Beth or her journal says.  That is their goal.

Unfortunately, I am pretty much in agreement with you.

The investigation does not look good from the outside looking in.  I am trying to maintain some semblance of hope, however, and not just totally give up.

.

[Dayhiker]

I was out of town last week and weekend -- big heartfelt thanks to everyone who posted summaries from Kimberly, Peter, Dana and the newest ridiculous interview with the delicious sporter

I remember after Joran did one of his interviews -- either Greta or Cuomo -- a document was released with results from a 'voice analyzer'??

I think I read the document on BFN when I used to post there (or maybe Michelle's site). I believe the analysis was requested by Dave Holloway?

Does anyone else remember this??? Very damning and damaging for the sporter (what a big surprise).

Is this the same guy as you have been discussing this morning??


Off to work, but....

have computer with internete access, will lurk -- sharon

(anyone remember -- have gun, will travel -- wire palladin??)

I believe that was an analysis of the Cuomo interview Sharon and he raked Joran over the coals. It's worth a re-read if somebody has it because it does have similar conclusions to Hodges' report.

[Lala'sMom]

Maybe someone will attempt to answer this dumb question that I have concerning thought printing...

If Deepak's emails are on the up and up and were truly written by him alone...which to me is very doubtful...knowing they are mostly fabricated lies...how does that validate Dr. Hodges claims?  I found him most interesting, yet I would like for him to answer just a few nagging questions that I have.

[Easywriter]

I'm surprised they made it this long without being exposed.  If some of those tourists that got caught up in Joran's web of deceit had come forward, this might not have happened!

In her opening statemets this writer subconsciously sends a bad message to all parents who read her article.


In Holloway case, Aruba also suffers

ORANJESTAD, ARUBA — A siren blares and whistle-blowing waiters race in to the hectic beat of the "Mexican Hat Dance." It's time for the hourly tequila attack at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

The target is an already inebriated blond with seven gal pals, a sunset-colored rum drink and a sunburned nose. The waiters crown her with a giant sombrero, toss a serape over her bare shoulders and pour a stream of golden liquid into a mouth turned up like a baby bird's.

Liquor-plying mission accomplished, a DJ swaps the peppy Mexican melody for a blaring rendition of dance group T-Spoon's "Sex on the Beach."

Yep, she did a "thought print" all over herself!  

Today I am feeling a little like we are stuck on Groundhog Day.  This case needs to move in one direction or another.

[Tylergal]

I'm surprised they made it this long without being exposed.  If some of those tourists that got caught up in Joran's web of deceit had come forward, this might not have happened!

In her opening statemets this writer subconsciously sends a bad message to all parents who read her article.


In Holloway case, Aruba also suffers

ORANJESTAD, ARUBA — A siren blares and whistle-blowing waiters race in to the hectic beat of the "Mexican Hat Dance." It's time for the hourly tequila attack at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

The target is an already inebriated blond with seven gal pals, a sunset-colored rum drink and a sunburned nose. The waiters crown her with a giant sombrero, toss a serape over her bare shoulders and pour a stream of golden liquid into a mouth turned up like a baby bird's.

Liquor-plying mission accomplished, a DJ swaps the peppy Mexican melody for a blaring rendition of dance group T-Spoon's "Sex on the Beach."

Herein lies more truth than she thought she had told.  She tries to use prose to make this sound like a walk in the beautiful moonlight of a rose garden, but what is exposed is the fact that she accepts this behavior by bartenders as the norm.  It clearly exposes her as an enabler to what goes on in Aruba, and that is the obvious drugging of tourists.

[sharon]

I believe that was an analysis of the Cuomo interview Sharon and he raked Joran over the coals. It's worth a re-read if somebody has it because it does have similar conclusions to Hodges' report.

Thanks Dayhiker! I thought it was Cuomo.

Of course, I did not save a copy.

It might have been here at SM at one time -- I don't think it still is, but I will try to look.


If anyone did save it -- please repost.

[Tylergal]

Maybe someone will attempt to answer this dumb question that I have concerning thought printing...

If Deepak's emails are on the up and up and were truly written by him alone...which to me is very doubtful...knowing they are mostly fabricated lies...how does that validate Dr. Hodges claims?  I found him most interesting, yet I would like for him to answer just a few nagging questions that I have.

He did say that he had investigated the recipient of this letter and had done extensive investigation of this.  Not unlike a journalist, he goes to another paragraph to mention who helped him in this investigation.  Who does he mention later on who has encouraged him to become a profiler?

[Lala'sMom]

I want to clarify this for all those that bombarded my yahoo email today with Simian/Shango questions.  

Is there any evidence, that anyone has, linking Merian Ernest to Simian?  An IP addy, perhaps or something?  Also, how can the true Simian have only surfaced on or after June 24?  What about the very first Simian posts?  What happened to the Gabe Leo and Albert Vrjolik theories? Where do they fit in?  If Simian is actually Clyde Burke by June 24 wouldn't that make him a doppleganger instead of the original Simian?  Just some of the questions I have been asked today.  TIA

[blah]

anything in those files that may have been incriminating was long ago removed.  This is a big part of the reason they are trying so hard to destroy Beth's credibility, so anything she has seen in the past, and has now been reomved, will just be chalked up to her lack of credibility.  It was never there and you cannot trust a word Beth or her journal says.  That is their goal.

Unfortunately, I am pretty much in agreement with you.

The investigation does not look good from the outside looking in.  I am trying to maintain some semblance of hope, however, and not just totally give up.

.

I'm just trying to get y'all to prepare yourselves for the BIG letdown.  We have had it so many times before, and this next one will be the big one.  I hope i'm wrong but I want everyone to be ready because if you step away and take a look at things, it sure doesnt look good.

[klaasend]

I want to clarify this for all those that bombarded my yahoo email today with Simian/Shango questions.  

Is there any evidence, that anyone has, linking Merian Ernest to Simian?  An IP addy, perhaps or something?  Also, how can the true Simian have only surfaced on or after June 24?  What about the very first Simian posts?  What happened to the Gabe Leo and Albert Vrjolik theories? Where do they fit in?  If Simian is actually Clyde Burke by June 24 wouldn't that make him a doppleganger instead of the original Simian?  Just some of the questions I have been asked today.  TIA

The original Simian started posting on June 17th and his last post was on July 1st (using the nickname Baboon).  

At SM, there is no evidence linking Merian Ernest to Simian that I know of.

The link between Clyde Burke and Simian was made by Grande based upon Simian's posts and the timing of the statements made to ALE (PV's) that Clyde Burke was involved with.

[Tylergal]

Blah, I agree that it does not look good for us.  However, we really have no idea of what is going on in Aruba.  We are really clueless.  I did not hear any optimism in Beth's nor Dave's tones but others state they did.  I think all is not lost.

I think over time the whole Island of Aruba has become guilty by default.  How do you punish them collectively?  You cut off what is near and dear to them, their income.

Has Aruba not felt the impact of the Monkeys by a decrease in tourism and empty hotel rooms whose costs are being defrayed by money laundering.  Gambling on line could become their main source of income and no one has fought that more than Congressman Baucus.  I know that does not sit well with some here, but that is probably because they read the small picture and not all the fine print.

I think we have a winner in that congressman and his assistance or lack thereof in this has left  some baffled, but not me.  I can see the larger picture.  If you cannot convict the three PIMPS you go after the island collectively by hitting them in the pocketbook.  That might not be making Joran, Deepak or Satish admit to what they have done, but you can collectively punish an apathetic people by removing their source of income.

[Lala'sMom]

Yes, Blah.  The let down is coming.  I can see it already.  They will not officially close this case...ever. The Dutch will simply say they can't find any conclusive evidence that Joran, Deepak, or Satish caused the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  They were the last seen with her from the point of few of her friends only...just because that is fact means little to them.  Too much corrruption and too much at stake to say any more by the Dutch. There is no evidence left...it was destroyed within the first weeks. To do that would require the family access. The family will only get a few tidbits thrown at them as if they are the strays waiting for food.  This case can not be solved now, it's too late.  There is no one willing to come forward and tell the truth. Too risky.