Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[sharon]

The thing is, Simian didn't talk in riddles, only Shango did.

Exactly!

But once Shango began to 'confront' Simian on the FP -- Simian began the crazyspeak, too.

I would have said -- Shango -- wtf are you talking about But Simian jumped right in.

Easy It really was fascinating when you could watch the dialog 'live'.

Now, for me, it's more like tring to uncover the bs and lies. And to 'align' the comments with events. And to determine who was lieing intentionally -- and who might have been misled. And to figure out when it's the dopplegangers.

But Grande gets the prize.  That was great detective work  

[Easywriter]

I think we need a body or an eyewitness.  Beyond that I just don't see this going to court and we don't want them to take it to court if they can't convict.

[bleachedblack]

Have you ever known a male who would love a woman so much that he would cheat on her but when confronted with his cheating, he would rather than admit it or apologize, kill the woman with whom he cheated?  

No, Tyler, Cant say that I have!  

Do you remember the cadets who were the top graduates in their high school and one went off to the Naval Academy and one to the Air Force Academy, I believe it was, and she ordered him to kill the girl he was dating when he was separated from her and they killed her together.  Then they stood by each other for a longer period of time but in the end, I believe she turned on him.

  http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/zamora/2.html

[Tylergal]

Have you ever known a male who would love a woman so much that he would cheat on her but when confronted with his cheating, he would rather than admit it or apologize, kill the woman with whom he cheated?  

No, Tyler, Cant say that I have!  

Do you remember the cadets who were the top graduates in their high school and one went off to the Naval Academy and one to the Air Force Academy, I believe it was, and she ordered him to kill the girl he was dating when he was separated from her and they killed her together.  Then they stood by each other for a longer period of time but in the end, I believe she turned on him.

I remember that case.  I read an article about her, I believe.  Didn't they kill the rival somewhere in Texas?

 that's right.  

[justinsmama]

       

Klaas! You have mail!

[Rob]

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: That Libanese Family...

I wonder if this is a reference to the Labouovic Family missing on Aruba?

Rob, what is this about?

AZ Lady-
just four more people missing....from a few years before Natalee

[sharon]

Klaas if I am not mistaken Gordo & Alcazar's Revenge & possibly Merian Ernest posted in code talkers thread. So it won't be searchable.

Alcazar's Revenge! That's the one I couldn't remember.

Thanks yapz

[bleachedblack]

Does anyone recall this particular charge? I read it  in a post by WorldJournier from another site. Could this be the reference to the container Natalee might be buried in possibly at sea ?

... On 6-11-05,  JAN VAN DER STRATEN---the ARUBAN Police commissioner &  Good  Friend  of  Former "murder,  manslaughter  or  intentional  containment  with  the  dead"  Suspect  PAULUS  VAN  DER  SLOOT---was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRATEN replied,  “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe,  anymore,  that we will find Natalee alive.”   When asked why not, STRATEN quickly replied,  “Because  I  know  the  details  of  the  'investigation,'  and  you  don't!” ...

[Tylergal]

Does anyone recall this particular charge? I read it  in a post by WorldJournier from another site. Could this be the reference to the container Natalee might be buried in possibly at sea ?

... On 6-11-05,  JAN VAN DER STRATEN---the ARUBAN Police commissioner &  Good  Friend  of  Former "murder,  manslaughter  or  intentional  containment  with  the  dead"  Suspect  PAULUS  VAN  DER  SLOOT---was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRATEN replied,  “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe,  anymore,  that we will find Natalee alive.”   When asked why not, STRATEN quickly replied,  “Because  I  know  the  details  of  the  'investigation,'  and  you  don't!” ...

Yes, I remember that well.

[justinsmama]

Well, if I jump in here and start this discussion...I fear those that need to answer the questions we all have will say nothing and then we will be no closer to ending this cryptic discussion...if I get banned I will cry...

banned? I am totally confused now, maybe I should just slink away, lala's again i wasn't speaking against you but for you.
take care all

I'm guessing here, but I don't think Lala's is referring to any particular person. I think she's referring to all the hoo-hah that erupted a few months ago when we had several monkeys who wanted to discuss Shango and Simian in the forum. It upset quite a few folks, and there was wailing and gnashing of teeth, and some of the Shango/Simian fans stopped posting.
Don't write me up if I'm wrong, Lala's, okay?

You are correct.  I know there were some odd ideas back then, but I think had we just jumped in and either proved our point or not we would not be here discussing the identities now.

     I was one of the ijits in that. I deeply regret it.

[AZLady]

Does anyone recall this particular charge? I read it  in a post by WorldJournier from another site. Could this be the reference to the container Natalee might be buried in possibly at sea ?

... On 6-11-05,  JAN VAN DER STRATEN---the ARUBAN Police commissioner &  Good  Friend  of  Former "murder,  manslaughter  or  intentional  containment  with  the  dead"  Suspect  PAULUS  VAN  DER  SLOOT---was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRATEN replied,  “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe,  anymore,  that we will find Natalee alive.”   When asked why not, STRATEN quickly replied,  “Because  I  know  the  details  of  the  'investigation,'  and  you  don't!” ...

I remember reading that two years ago and thought that van der Straten was saying that he had seen evidence that clearly indicated Natalee had died--either he had seen her body or copious amounts of blood indicating she could no longer be alive.

[robots]

I agree with you Robot, I do believe the Dutch know something isnt right
I think they are doing everything they can to find evidence or witnesses
if they are not talking to ppl already.. I am sure they would love to pop
Joran and put him away

 

[bleachedblack]

Does anyone recall this particular charge? I read it  in a post by WorldJournier from another site. Could this be the reference to the container Natalee might be buried in possibly at sea ?

... On 6-11-05,  JAN VAN DER STRATEN---the ARUBAN Police commissioner &  Good  Friend  of  Former "murder,  manslaughter  or  intentional  containment  with  the  dead"  Suspect  PAULUS  VAN  DER  SLOOT---was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRATEN replied,  “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe,  anymore,  that we will find Natalee alive.”   When asked why not, STRATEN quickly replied,  “Because  I  know  the  details  of  the  'investigation,'  and  you  don't!” ...

I remember reading that two years ago and thought that van der Straten was saying that he had seen evidence that clearly indicated Natalee had died--either he had seen her body or copious amounts of blood indicating she could no longer be alive.

I recall reading it, but think I tended to concentrate on the "I know the details of this case and you don't"(not verbatim). With recent talk of again searching the ocean and again considering the very real possibility that Natalee may have been taken out to the deep water, the container portion is of particular import IMO

[Tylergal]

I think containment in the context it is written means they are withholding evidence.  I don't think for one minute it means Natalee is in a container, although I don't doubt she is, but this reference has nothing whatsoever to do with that in the way it is written.  Just someone wanting to connect dots that have no connection.

[Tylergal]

I have seen the documents and evidence contained within and ...blah, blah, blah.  I don't think for one minute he said she was in a container in that statement, although perhaps somone is trying to do thought print on this guy.

[Lala'sMom]

By reading the Simian/Shango discussions it is very clear that they were, at best, friendly enemies.  I was told that was not true. I continue in that assertion that they were not friends.  There is a definite undertone to the fact that Simian clearly did not like many of the things Shango said.  I have always claimed Simian was an inside person associated in some way with ALE.  In fact Simian all but says that in the various posts.  

Now my question that will stir the pot...somebody's gotta ask this...

Rob
Please show us how you came to your conclusions of the identities of Shango and Simian.  I understand that Anidac was very instrumental in all the hard work that went in to this.  There!  I asked the one question that everyone keeps sidestepping. Now, someone show me the money on this one.

[AZLady]

Maybe I'm just too literal, but I see van der Stratten saying he's seen evidence that she is deceased, that's all.  Now, I do believe it is only common sense to conclude that if her body was dumped in the deep water of the ocean, the body would be put into a container for this purpose.  They don't want bones or parts washing up on shore!  I don't need to be a thought printer to know this!  

[klaasend]

Just posted by Pearl on the front page of SM  

I’m not sure of the source of this news brief, but I thought I’d share it with my favorite monkeys…

This just in.

An escaped mule has been reported to have broken into an LA news station, where it was spotted backing up into the desk of a woman who would only identify herself as “the Croc”.

When the mule arrived at the desk, it unloaded what some described as a major dump.

Waste management was called in, but when confronted by a source who would only identify herself as “Fluffer”, it was ascertained that the odiferous stench was not the result of the mule dropping a load on “the croc’s” desk, but from “some other ass” according to the anonymous source who stated: “ I’ve spoken with all the obvious potential suspects that could generate this kind of more-ass. I know this mule is innocent because I’ve seen lots of crap before.”

Gripped by her attractions for loads of crap, the anonymous source named Fluffer slithered onto the ground, sniffing out all the crap she could inhale. After zeroing in on Croc’s pile of papers, Fluffer sniped: “I’m convinced this ass is innocent, as are all the other asses. The crap is coming from Croc.”

Waste management reported the source of the foul odor was indeed stemming from an article left on the Croc’s desk.

When asked about the foul odor, waste management officials would only say: “We haven’t smelled a stench like that since that trip we made to that island sinking in the Carribbean , where we had to do a major overhaul of a septic tank over at this newspaper, called “Island Crapper ” and suddenly, this lady comes out screaming something about being a crap expert because she’s “probed all the crap on the island.”

When asked about the comments made by Fluffer and the Croc, the mule would only say:

“…and they call me an ass. Look at those two: a croc of crap – the two of them!”

[bleachedblack]

I think containment in the context it is written means they are withholding evidence.  I don't think for one minute it means Natalee is in a container, although I don't doubt she is, but this reference has nothing whatsoever to do with that in the way it is written.  Just someone wanting to connect dots that have no connection.

Without knowing more, and reading these charges anything is possible. Containment can be literal ie in a container particularly when it references someone dead. I tend to think more interms of kidnapping or being held against ones will as phrases to be used when one is alive.

[AZLady]

OMG--I'm laughing so hard my chair nearly tipped over.  That Pearl has a way with words, doesn't she?