Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[Easywriter]

What was the name of the outfit that put this trip together two years ago?

[LilPuma]

L'il Puma, I think if I am not mistaken, that someone posted his thoughts on the sharks, indicating that Joran is the shark; he also unravels the claim about C&C not being much fun on a Sunday night.  He is warning them subconsciously to stay away because they will enounter trouble from "the sharks."  He is one of the sharks.

I had some thoughts on the unconscious meaning of the statements the trio made in the past thread.  I think we have all tried to read into it what was not said, but most telling is that he said "Natalee was never on the beach with them alone..."  There were always three of them but they left her "in the beach, in the water, in a container.."  Greta will not touch that.  Greta long ago allied with her friends at Court TV when she was told she was going in the wrong direction with Beth to maintain her alliance with them.  She opted to stay in the game rather than remain sane.

I thought Dr. Hodges' credibility would have been increased had he talked more about the statements and interviews instead of focusing so much on one of Deepak's e-mails.  We've all analyzed what they've said but Dr. Hodges, with his training and experience with the human mind, picks up on things that we didn't.  I'd love to hear him discuss it and I'm glad Dana said he'll have him on again.  The whole Lighthouse issue has me baffled because I can't figure out why the Kalpoes insist they went there, while Joran says it didn't happen.  I can't fit the Lighthouse into any timeline we have unless they did NOT go to the Sloots or they took Natalee to the Lighthouse after the Sloots.  I don't know if I'd agree with the good doctor's conclusions, but hearing things he picks out of their writings and statements gives us more clues and food for thought.

[LilPuma]

- Do we have a link to an early article that says government employees were given the day off to search and about 400 showed up to do so?  

- Do we have a link to an article about demonstrations because chollers are bothering people?  Oh, I can find that on the FP.  

- Do we have a link to articles about poverty, maybe something about St. Nicholas?  

- Link to Murder and Crime thread.

- Article about recent search of VDS residence and look-see of Kalpoes.  

These discredit the LA article and Julie Renfroe.

[Tylergal]

L'il Puma, I think if I am not mistaken, that someone posted his thoughts on the sharks, indicating that Joran is the shark; he also unravels the claim about C&C not being much fun on a Sunday night.  He is warning them subconsciously to stay away because they will enounter trouble from "the sharks."  He is one of the sharks.

I had some thoughts on the unconscious meaning of the statements the trio made in the past thread.  I think we have all tried to read into it what was not said, but most telling is that he said "Natalee was never on the beach with them alone..."  There were always three of them but they left her "in the beach, in the water, in a container.."  Greta will not touch that.  Greta long ago allied with her friends at Court TV when she was told she was going in the wrong direction with Beth to maintain her alliance with them.  She opted to stay in the game rather than remain sane.

I thought Dr. Hodges' credibility would have been increased had he talked more about the statements and interviews instead of focusing so much on one of Deepak's e-mails.  We've all analyzed what they've said but Dr. Hodges, with his training and experience with the human mind, picks up on things that we didn't.  I'd love to hear him discuss it and I'm glad Dana said he'll have him on again.  The whole Lighthouse issue has me baffled because I can't figure out why the Kalpoes insist they went there, while Joran says it didn't happen.  I can't fit the Lighthouse into any timeline we have unless they did NOT go to the Sloots or they took Natalee to the Lighthouse after the Sloots.  I don't know if I'd agree with the good doctor's conclusions, but hearing things he picks out of their writings and statements gives us more clues and food for thought.

My guess would be that he can get a clearer picture of Deepak's mind since this statement was made early on before the whites and blacks started becoming grayed in even in their own minds, for they know what happened, but a seasoned liar like Joran can convince himself that he is telling the truth.  It is easier to blur the lines when you are dealing with the ramblings of a pathological liar such as Joran, and I suppose had he been able to get his hands on (which he requested from Karin Jansen and Vin de Souza) the first statements by Joran, he might have been more inclined to use that; having said that, he did say that he did not want to give too much away because he and Dave are in agreement of places to search based on Joran's statements and he did not want to give up that information out of fear of spoiling what Tim has intention of doing although it appears Dave has been the go-between with Tim and Dr. Hodges.

[msmarple]

Quick thought -  I notice the article played the "motherhood card" ... hummm. What was it about JR's children? A discussion not long ago?

[JusticeforNatalee]

Write   Write   Write!
carol.williams@latimes.com

[Dayhiker]

The article concludes:

Although leads have faltered and investigators no longer seem to be focusing on the three named suspects, the case of the "missing white woman" promises to live on for years, at least in the legal TV and unsolved-mystery broadcasts.

I guess those recent visits to the Sloot and Kalpoe homes was focused on the neighbors. lol

I detest that "missing white woman" garbage!

Not to mention the fact that two days after Joran's book came out the Dutch announced that Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were STILL THE MAIN SUSPECTS and that the investigation into them would be extended past the two year mark.

Typical LA times liberal slant, probably Cohen and Dilella connected, but the first few sentences sum Aruba up pretty well as a place that specializes in getting women drunk so their men can take advantage of them. That came through loud and clear.

Morning Monks!

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Ok dokey there buttafly; Ms Williams can draw her own
conclusions and since Julia is noted as being originally from Los
Angeles, it could be that Ms Williams and Julia are friends  

I e-mailed Ms Williams as I said earlier and if she chooses to read the
transcripts of Beth Twitty with Robert Jensen as well as what Rep Bachus
had to say about the case, she will have further insight into the FACTS
in this case.

I'll bet Williams' inbox is jammed today

[Dayhiker]

Re:  Dr. Hodges

I'd like to hear his commentary about Joran's various interviews and stories to ALE.  This one bothers me in particular:  

Joran tells Chris Cuomo that Natalee tells them at C&C she wants to see sharks, so they head out to the Lighthouse.  Then they go to his house.  Chris asks him when the plan changed.  Joran verbally stumbles, doesn't quite know what led to the change in plans.  They go to his house, but don't go in, they go to the beach.  

Joran tells Greta that Natalee asks if he lives in a big house so they go there.  They get there and Natalee doesn't want to go in, she says she wants to see sharks.  So they go to the Marriott Beach.  

They're walking along the beach, towards Natalee's hotel, but Natalee wants to walk the other way, towards the Lighthouse.  

Natalee fell asleep on the beach, maybe went for a swim, drowned, etc. etc. etc.

The guy impressed me more than expected. One thing that rang out to me was that he said the Arubans weren't giving the FBI anything, then hr stammered a bit, collected his thoughts and said, "for some time." This affirmed that the Arubans were locking the FBI out early on so they could cover the case up, running roughshod over the victim and her family all the way through Joran's release on September 3, and suggests at some point the FBI did enter the picture, perhaps at the October meeting when the "wiretaps" were revealed. Perhaps the Dutch were shown some very damaging information that could turn the island upside down and decided an honest investigation was in order.

[Tylergal]

Klaas, did you lock that other thread?

 

I brought this over, an exchange between Easy and me....just wanted to know if others might want to opine on this.  Not sure, as I see we are all bent out of shape this morning about the boozing floozie from arubzie, none other than the French mongrel now removed from her days of bit parts in questionable moves in LA to less skanky position in Aruba.  Nonetheless, the leopard still has spots in addition to now being long in the teeth, hard on the wrinkles and tasteless in mindprint.

Tylergal wrote:
Did they take Satish home to provide an alibi while Joran "stayed with the girl" to ensure nobody came along and Deepak was off to render help from Paulus and his underworld thugs.


That makes sense. Joran stays at the beach with Natalee and the brothers go to get help, tools, or others to help. Where did the "came back with two dawgs" story come from?

[Easywriter]

The article concludes:

Although leads have faltered and investigators no longer seem to be focusing on the three named suspects, the case of the "missing white woman" promises to live on for years, at least in the legal TV and unsolved-mystery broadcasts.

I guess those recent visits to the Sloot and Kalpoe homes was focused on the neighbors. lol

I detest that "missing white woman" garbage!

Not to mention the fact that two days after Joran's book came out the Dutch announced that Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were STILL THE MAIN SUSPECTS and that the investigation into them would be extended past the two year mark.

Typical LA times liberal slant, probably Cohen and Dilella connected, but the first few sentences sum Aruba up pretty well as a place that specializes in getting women drunk so their men can take advantage of them. That came through loud and clear.

Morning Monks!

If ALE can't deal with a bunch of out of control teens stalking tourist, then just what can they do about anything else?  Hell, a bunch of these guys are the sons of people in charge on the island.  What kind of chit is that?

[Tylergal]

Two dogs.  Could it be he is talking about two people or is he really talking about dogs.  

We have seen in postings from Fabiene (Joran's girlfriend) that she is infatuated with beastiality so do we know that these are not two canines?  Or not being familiar with their form of ghetto language in Aruba, is "dawgs" a code word for two Columbians.

[Tylergal]

DAYHIKER,

I totally agree with you.  I was impressed with this guy and many have said he did not say where she is now, blah, blah, blah, but he mentioned as you stated "they did not give FBI anything early on" and I emphasized that in capital letters when I transcribed it, also mentioned his full name and credentials, but moreover, what I noticed was that he concluded that he and Dave were in concert, that he and Tim were working for the same team and that he was "not going to say anymore in order not to give away..."  Are we asking this man tell all he knows so that we can sit here and whine that he did tell everything in order for the PIMPS and the slavemasters to be able to cover that up as well.

I think we want too much sometimes.  Dave, Beth, the FBI nor Dr. Hodges is not going to tell all for to do so is like giving a knife to your enemy to stab you in your face.  How foolish he would be to do so and not worthy of the letters he holds.

[Dayhiker]

Typical LA times liberal slant, probably Cohen and Dilella connected, but the first few sentences sum Aruba up pretty well as a place that specializes in getting women drunk so their men can take advantage of them. That came through loud and clear.

Morning Monks![/b]

If ALE can't deal with a bunch of out of control teens stalking tourist, then just what can they do about anything else?  Hell, a bunch of these guys are the sons of people in charge on the island.  What kind of chit is that?

Isn't this the powderkeg Aruba created by letting the local bar owners and pimps take over their bars and lounges? Allowing the sale of drugs openly on the streets and allowing the locals to pay bartenders to put date rape drugs into women's drinks?

Aruba was an accident waiting to happen, a highly publicized murder away from being exposed, and they got their death wish.

[Easywriter]

[Dayhiker]

DAYHIKER,

I totally agree with you.  I was impressed with this guy and many have said he did not say where she is now, blah, blah, blah, but he mentioned as you stated "they did not give FBI anything early on" and I emphasized that in capital letters when I transcribed it, also mentioned his full name and credentials, but moreover, what I noticed was that he concluded that he and Dave were in concert, that he and Tim were working for the same team and that he was "not going to say anymore in order not to give away..."  Are we asking this man tell all he knows so that we can sit here and whine that he did tell everything in order for the PIMPS and the slavemasters to be able to cover that up as well.

I think we want too much sometimes.  Dave, Beth, the FBI nor Dr. Hodges is not going to tell all for to do so is like giving a knife to your enemy to stab you in your face.  How foolish he would be to do so and not worthy of the letters he holds.

I agree Tyler, I think we got just a taste of what he knows. That line of his gave away the fact that he knows the timeline of when the FBI actually got involved, and I believe he knows a heck of a lot more.

[Easywriter]

Typical LA times liberal slant, probably Cohen and Dilella connected, but the first few sentences sum Aruba up pretty well as a place that specializes in getting women drunk so their men can take advantage of them. That came through loud and clear.

Morning Monks![/b]

If ALE can't deal with a bunch of out of control teens stalking tourist, then just what can they do about anything else?  Hell, a bunch of these guys are the sons of people in charge on the island.  What kind of chit is that?

Isn't this the powderkeg Aruba created by letting the local bar owners and pimps take over their bars and lounges? Allowing the sale of drugs openly on the streets and allowing the locals to pay bartenders to put date rape drugs into women's drinks?

Aruba was an accident waiting to happen, a highly publicized murder away from being exposed, and they got their death wish.

I'm surprised they made it this long without being exposed.  If some of those tourists that got caught up in Joran's web of deceit had come forward, this might not have happened!

[Easywriter]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

[Tylergal]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

[Easywriter]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!