Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[truthseeker2]

I suppose you could say neither said the exact location, just hints.  For instance...

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

We have been all over this passage many times...I still assert it references the possibility of her being in the water.  I know, I know. JMO.

Interesting...I have always interpreted this to mean she was not in the ocean...where the buoy would toll.  Like...not building sandcastles.

[bleachedblack]

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

Yes

Give me the brief version.

The 3 perps never took Natalee to the beach.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?

That could mean they didn't bury her in the sand.  But it doesn't tell me what happened to her and what they did next.

IMO what Shango tells us is that answers can be found by questioning the croupier (Guido) regarding events of the night. I still am one who believes that Natalee was targeted for a specific reason, don't know that exact reason PVDS, video porn, SoulBeach after party, but Natalee died before the full extent for which she was intended was realized.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music

[Tylergal]

NO - have you looked at Simians posts in late June 2005 and compared them to the PV's taken at that time?  Several of Simian's posts match up almost identical to the subject in the PV's.  I believe Simian was a member of ALE and he was telling us what was going on, until he was told to STOP.

I am trying to look at this with an open mind but I just aint convinced yet.

What did this guy/girl have to gain by giving somewhat cryptic clues to some internet bloggers?  What could the bloggers do with any clues he was giving?

If he had some real inside info that could help the case but was afraid of the rest of the ALE, why wouldnt he go to the family, the FBI, the Dutch, Interpol, MSM, a lawyer, someone with power?  The MSM and family had detectives an searchers all over that island, why wouldnt he go to one of them?  Why type out cryptic seemingly nonesense on the internet if he wanted to be taken seriously?

BLAH - Simian was not cryptic in June 2005.  Shango was and I'm not sure what Shango's motivations were.  To me the Simian posts in June 2005 are pretty straight forward.

I also think one of the Simian Dopplegangers was AG.  I think the tone changed.  It went from informative to hate-filled as things progressed, perhaps after Mr. badweather called for the demonstration against Beth.  Can we see if that date coincides in anyway with the change in tone?  I am sure some of the bats were behind that as well, but it had to be a man to organize it so the presstitute could still play nice with the media.

I think a boyfriend reference is just someone perhaps that she met and talked to, maybe danced with.  I don't think it has to mean she accepted a diamond from him and planned to marry, just an acquaintance that perhaps was infatuated with her.  She was, after all, a very attractive girl.  Even Deepak admits that to Jamie, saying she looked and danced like an angel.

[klaasend]

Rob - According to the PV's, Clyde Burke worked in District 2, Noord:

http://www.kparuba.com/districts.html

[oldfart]

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

Yes

Give me the brief version.

The 3 perps never took Natalee to the beach.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?

Or not only to the beach ??

DEEPAK - JUNE 10TH STATEMENT

To your question as to how it is possible that my car looks so clean, I can state the following. My car according to me is not clean because if you look at the outside you can see there is mud on the bottom of the car.

To your question whether I can remember the day when I was summoned to the police station at Bubali, I can say the following. Yes I remember that day. (Was this May 31??)

You are telling to me that my car looked very clean on that day. About that I can state the following, I had vacuumed my car the previous day.

To your question as to why I had vacuumed my car the previous day, I can state the following. I thought my car was dirty on the inside there was a lot of sand.

To your question as to how dirty my car was on the inside, I can state the following. There was a lot of sand inside of the car.

To your question as to when I had been to the beach for the last time, I can state the following. I had been to a party on the beach about two or three weeks ago.
To your question as to where the sand came from the day in question that I vacuumed the car, I can state the following. The sand came from Joran, because he had almost fallen into the water and after that he had sat down in my car with sand on his shorts and on his legs.

Deepak is not going to let a lot of sand stay in his ride for two - three weeks.  JMO of course

[oldfart]

Forgot to add...
It appears Joran fell in WET sand and then got back in Deepaks car...  

[Lala'sMom]

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

Yes.

That's the second time I read that and I know nothing more than I did before I asked.

Have you read the posts all the way through yet?  I don't mean to sound condescending, but it's very hard to discuss them if everyone hasn't at least read them more than just once.  I understand your frustrations.  Maybe Shango and Simian never really knew what happened to her.  I think Simian alludes to it concerning the head and body washing ashore verse.  Okay, I guess I am making no sense to you. Sorry.

[blah]

Blah - a bulk of Smians posts are at the top in this thread (although many have just been posted here as well):

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=281

I have read half this thread so far ( its pretty darn long!)  and have not found anything of any real interest yet.   Heck, i dont even know for sure what it is i'm supposed to be looking for now!

[Anna]

But this still just gives a little sliver of information around the questioning and detention of Paulus.

And most of the details are totally wrong.  He doesn't even know how long the MB kids were in Aruba for example and always says a week instead of Thursday evening until Natalee disappeared on Sunday night.

If he is that far off on this why should we believe anything else he says?  Just knowing slightly ahead of time PVDS was going to be picked up is hardly a case-breaker.  Probably every cop on the island knew this.

JMO

.

[klaasend]

For what it's worth.  I happen to believe Simian was ALE and was telling us true happenings in Aruba in June 2005.  I don't know about Shango.

I don't care if nobody agrees with me, they don't have to.

[Artcolley]

But this still just gives a little sliver of information around the questioning and detention of Paulus.

And most of the details are totally wrong.  He doesn't even know how long the MB kids were in Aruba for example and always says a week instead of Thursday evening until Natalee disappeared on Sunday night.

If he is that far off on this why should we believe anything else he says?  Just knowing slightly ahead of time PVDS was going to be picked up is hardly a case-breaker.  Probably every cop on the island knew this.

JMO

.

My point exactly.
AGain, to me it sounds like a trial baloon for the Darksiders theories.

[Rob]

Rob - According to the PV's, Clyde Burke worked in District 2, Noord:

http://www.kparuba.com/districts.html

wow.. that says alot.

This guy is right in the middle of it all...

Thank you Klaas

[Grande]

NO - have you looked at Simians posts in late June 2005 and compared them to the PV's taken at that time?  Several of Simian's posts match up almost identical to the subject in the PV's.  I believe Simian was a member of ALE and he was telling us what was going on, until he was told to STOP.

I am trying to look at this with an open mind but I just aint convinced yet.

What did this guy/girl have to gain by giving somewhat cryptic clues to some internet bloggers?  What could the bloggers do with any clues he was giving?

If he had some real inside info that could help the case but was afraid of the rest of the ALE, why wouldnt he go to the family, the FBI, the Dutch, Interpol, MSM, a lawyer, someone with power?  The MSM and family had detectives an searchers all over that island, why wouldnt he go to one of them?  Why type out cryptic seemingly nonesense on the internet if he wanted to be taken seriously?

BLAH - Simian was not cryptic in June 2005.  Shango was and I'm not sure what Shango's motivations were.  To me the Simian posts in June 2005 are pretty straight forward.

I also think one of the Simian Dopplegangers was AG.  I think the tone changed.  It went from informative to hate-filled as things progressed, perhaps after Mr. badweather called for the demonstration against Beth.  Can we see if that date coincides in anyway with the change in tone?  I am sure some of the bats were behind that as well, but it had to be a man to organize it so the presstitute could still play nice with the media.

I think a boyfriend reference is just someone perhaps that she met and talked to, maybe danced with.  I don't think it has to mean she accepted a diamond from him and planned to marry, just an acquaintance that perhaps was infatuated with her.  She was, after all, a very attractive girl.  Even Deepak admits that to Jamie, saying she looked and danced like an angel.

It appears to be around the time of Clyde's next interrogation on 6/29 w/ Deepak.  Clyde had a gap in interrogations between PVDS' on 6/23 until the 29th.  Many of what I suspect to be 'sincere' posts by Simian occur in this same timeframe.

[Buckeye]

I think he had access to lots of info (could be a stenographer).  I do believe that there were a lot of petite, blonde Americans.  There could be statements from some people ( eye witnesses are not very accurate) that mistook Natalee for another girl.  These statements could have been thought of as true but it was really someone different. He is reporting what was reported, at the time.  Later, the disinformation squad took advantage of the many blonde, look alike girls, to twist the real facts (videos, room keys, sightings.....).

[Easywriter]

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

Yes.

That's the second time I read that and I know nothing more than I did before I asked.

Have you read the posts all the way through yet?  I don't mean to sound condescending, but it's very hard to discuss them if everyone hasn't at least read them more than just once.  I understand your frustrations.  Maybe Shango and Simian never really knew what happened to her.  I think Simian alludes to it concerning the head and body washing ashore verse.  Okay, I guess I am making no sense to you. Sorry.

How do I say this in a polite way……  Beats me.  I didn’t spend much time reading them the first time around and don’t really care to do so now.  In fact, I’m not interested in debating each line of those posts.  Several of you that have spent a lot of time studying these posts think them to be very revealing.  To such an extent that they let everyone know what happened to Natalee and what became of her body.

I thought some of the S&S students could just compress it all into a couple of sentences and say what and where.

[Artcolley]

I think he had access to lots of info (could be a stenographer).  I do believe that there were a lot of petite, blonde Americans.  There could be statements from some people ( eye witnesses are not very accurate) that mistook Natalee for another girl.  These statements could have been thought of as true but it was really someone different. He is reporting what was reported, at the time.  Later, the disinformation squad took advantage of the many blonde, look alike girls, to twist the real facts (videos, room keys, sightings.....).

Now, this makes perfect sense and most likely what happened.

[Anna]

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

Yes.

That's the second time I read that and I know nothing more than I did before I asked.

Have you read the posts all the way through yet?  I don't mean to sound condescending, but it's very hard to discuss them if everyone hasn't at least read them more than just once.  I understand your frustrations.  Maybe Shango and Simian never really knew what happened to her.  I think Simian alludes to it concerning the head and body washing ashore verse.  Okay, I guess I am making no sense to you. Sorry.

I have read them what seems a hundred times, read them at Txas Dan's and New Republic or whatever that forum is called and read three different interpretations of them and they still don't tell me what happened to Natalee nor where she is.

Can someone just complete the sentence what happened to Natalee was:_________________________  and she is now located at _____________?  I mean based on some information gleaned from S&S because I don't see that they give any hard fast evidence of anything but then I am not the brightest crayon in the box and need help understanding this and their importance.

.

[Lala'sMom]

I told everyone that Simian and Shango discussions were not for the faint of heart.  I have been down this road many, many times.  It's probably more sensitive than discussing those videos that drive me crazy.  Carpe knows this all too well.  I will say this...I have never thought Simian was Albert Vrojlik.  Rob knows this, because I have told him so on many an occasion.  He was kind enough to let me rant and go on without being confrontational to me.  Simian was clearly on the ALE inside.  

Grande
Would you be so kind as to distinguish between the real Simian and the dopplegangers?  Just the dates would suffice for me.  TIA

[oldfart]

For what it's worth.  I happen to believe Simian was ALE and was telling us true happenings in Aruba in June 2005.  I don't know about Shango.

I don't care if nobody agrees with me, they don't have to.

Being new to Simian... I agree with you..
But have to wonder at  .

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:03 pm
The gap is in the timeline. Phone records. Log-on times on PC’s.

What we don’t know yet is what The Hague has found.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

It almost seems like there was a phone call to the VDS at 2:00 on May 30th? What day are they talking about... Do we have a Paulis PV  where this is mentioned...

[klaasend]

Anna - I don't believe S&S ever gave a definative answer as to exactly what happened.

If Simian was ALE here's why I think it could be important now.  If someone offered them an award for information, one they could not refuse, maybe..just maybe they'll tell us what happened and why the coverup.