Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[Sue]

lala you have followed Shango more then most
Have you put together time line for when
Suspect gave statements to when Simian or shango posted
there information..

[klaasend]

lala you have followed Shango more then most
Have you put together time line for when
Suspect gave statements to when Simian or shango posted
there information..

Grande has been posting that information, he's probably the best source.

[Buckeye]

It might not have been Clyde Burke (or Simeon) that was interrogating Joran when he confessed on June 10th.  I don't believe the original confession was that Deepak killed and buried her.  I think Joran confessed his roll and what happened. I saw his eyes, his face....he was devastated (not for Natalee but for himself).  Jan VDS or King got word to Paulus and the final cleanup happened before the Monday JanVDS summary report. IMO

[Anna]

For what it's worth.  I happen to believe Simian was ALE and was telling us true happenings in Aruba in June 2005.  I don't know about Shango.

I don't care if nobody agrees with me, they don't have to.

OK.  But all he tells us is that PVDS has been picked up and maybe got a phone call at 2 am.  Maybe a few more details about that particular happening and the status of some others being questioned.

That's not really very much info and we were bound to find it out eventually on our own since that was during high media coverage.

But just saying The Dicemen must be questioned is just pretty obvious.  Of course they should be since they were sitting right there in the casino.  And as far as I know, they were questioned and not much came of that either.

I guess what I really want to know is do these posts contain information now available anywhere else and conclusive information about what happened to Natalee and where she now is or do they not?

If they do what and where?

If they don't are we chasing our own tails?

.

[Tylergal]

I think early on there was a concerted effort by some Arubans to help but once the battle lines were drawn by Mr. Badweather and Ms. SKin of Leather, the Aruban masse was informed that they MUST come forward and support the island.  Do remember that they are more communist than we are.  They are required to think as a "village" and not as individuals.  They are urged to think that their leader is doing what he/she does in their best interests.  They have obviously never lived outside of a socialist society where they are told what to think and in the beginning, they were thinking, perhaps even talking.  Some of them talked on the front page.  "noise in the hallways" and many others and they talked about working at night and seemed not to care what they said but as the battle lines were drawn and the trolls were allowed, not only allowed, but encouraged by those who do not think well on their feet, to enter the blogosphere, it was infiltrated with government employees who were paid from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. to post.  You could see it plain as day.  They all got there to RWV where Dan encouraged their lies, to post from that time and at 5 o-clock just like clock work, they were out of there, but they posted all day long and you could tell what time they got to work and what time they left.

[klaasend]

Break time, brb

[Rob]

Anna - I don't believe S&S ever gave a definative answer as to exactly what happened.

If Simian was ALE here's why I think it could be important now.  If someone offered them an award for information, one they could not refuse, maybe..just maybe they'll tell us what happened and why the coverup.

I'm not reading it that way either. I only see they are kind of reporting stuff they either saw first hand or know existed from a trusted source. If you're in the ALE, you don't need a source.

I have never been able to look at any of it and say... "Natalee lies here!"

[Grande]

Within 35 minutes of PVDS' witness statement claiming to be asleep ALL NIGHT on the night of Natalee's disappearance, SOMEONE using the alias SIMIAN posted this...

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm (15:05)
"If you were asleep who answered your phone?"

This among other things leads me to believe it COULD have been one of the interrogators of the PVDS statement, Clyde Burke or Rolando Tromp.  Beyond that I SUGGESTED Nothing that would indicate I felt any other post was legitimate or accurate.

[Lala'sMom]

Anna
I see your point.  I failed to realize that I have read and read so many things on S/S that I think I understand when I don't.  I guess I will say that NO, Shango and Simian did not say exactly where Natalee is located.  There were hints at water and that she was not on the beach with the 3 perps and that her body was found and that her head is washing ashore.  I guess that doesn't mean they know where she is at all.  I will give you that one, for now.

[Tylergal]

I suppose you could say neither said the exact location, just hints.  For instance...

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

We have been all over this passage many times...I still assert it references the possibility of her being in the water.  I know, I know. JMO.

Interesting...I have always interpreted this to mean she was not in the ocean...where the buoy would toll.  Like...not building sandcastles.

My thought was that she was unable to hear when the buoy tolled.  I think the buoy tolled at the light house.  The light house area offered direction to boats in the night.  They were accustomed to things not on the up-and-up, sotaspeak happening at that location, JMHO, and when Natalee was disposed of if by boat, she was taken to the light house, but she was already dead when she arrived.

[blah]

PROCES VERBAAL

I woke up at that Monday morning at approximately 05.45 hours. In
the hours between I had gone to sleep and I did not hear Joran
leaving or hear him return home. 05.45 hours is the normal time for
the alarm to go off and I wake up[/b]. The children I wake up at
approximately 06.00 hours. I awakened Valentijn, Sebastian and Joran.
To your question whether it was difficult to wake up Joran on that
Monday morning, I can state the following. It is always difficult
to wake up Joran..."

AND THEN 35 minutes later this was posted on the SM FP

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm (15:05)
"If you were asleep who answered your phone?"

Then on June 24th this post…

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm "...Based on my
knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour
specialists?"  

This happens to be just prior to the June 24th Police car confrontation that
resulted in the transcript we have all seen.

so now Simian and Paulus are using the Scared Monkeys Front Page to help Paulus get the stories together and warn Paulus that the punks will be played against each other in the police car?

Or was he expecting at some point for the PV's to get leaked and some really bright monkey to go back and link these things together?

I dont know, the stuff you posted above looks interesting in that he/she could possible be seeing or hearing some of whats going on inside the investigation but when you put it together with all of the other nonsense he posted - I just dont know.

I have never seen Simian tell us what exactly happened and if he ever did know what, it would have been more beneficial for him to work with the FBI, the family, the Dutch, a lawyer, MSM, a private detective, TES, Dr Phil, anyone with POWER.  If he wanted to expose anything, why do it in little messages that really dont make much sense at the time on the front page of some blog?

[Grande]

I told everyone that Simian and Shango discussions were not for the faint of heart.  I have been down this road many, many times.  It's probably more sensitive than discussing those videos that drive me crazy.  Carpe knows this all too well.  I will say this...I have never thought Simian was Albert Vrojlik.  Rob knows this, because I have told him so on many an occasion.  He was kind enough to let me rant and go on without being confrontational to me.  Simian was clearly on the ALE inside.  

Grande
Would you be so kind as to distinguish between the real Simian and the dopplegangers?  Just the dates would suffice for me.  TIA

First post June 17th...

First post with seemingly inside info;  June 23rd...

Last 'post of value'; appx. June 28th.  For some reason I have June 28th @ 2:53am as the last 'post of value'.

[Tylergal]

Anna - I don't believe S&S ever gave a definative answer as to exactly what happened.

If Simian was ALE here's why I think it could be important now.  If someone offered them an award for information, one they could not refuse, maybe..just maybe they'll tell us what happened and why the coverup.

That is one reason but if it could be proven that he was doling out tidbits of information and KLDP knew this, could they not interrogate him more thoroughly?  Just wondering.

[oldfart]

Anna - I don't believe S&S ever gave a definative answer as to exactly what happened.

If Simian was ALE here's why I think it could be important now.  If someone offered them an award for information, one they could not refuse, maybe..just maybe they'll tell us what happened and why the coverup.

I think anyone that is part of ALE / Judical system would be exempt from collecting any reward..  Part of the rules/laws govering rewards.. (here at least)
BTW..
At one time theres was a list of things that Aruba had contributed... and on that list was $ contibuted by companies etc. to the reward for information.
Does anyone still have that list ?  
Thanks

BBL  (Maybe)

[Anna]

But this still just gives a little sliver of information around the questioning and detention of Paulus.

And most of the details are totally wrong.  He doesn't even know how long the MB kids were in Aruba for example and always says a week instead of Thursday evening until Natalee disappeared on Sunday night.

If he is that far off on this why should we believe anything else he says?  Just knowing slightly ahead of time PVDS was going to be picked up is hardly a case-breaker.  Probably every cop on the island knew this.

JMO

.

My point exactly.
AGain, to me it sounds like a trial baloon for the Darksiders theories.

Yes and Dompig was always particularly fond of saying the MB kids were there for a whole week as well, makes it sound like they really had time to get all that nasty information on them when in case of fact, they did not.

I guess I am just incapable of understanding the importance of S&S because to me they never really told us anything.  Nothing unique to their posts or information but apparently I am missing it.

Off to work and feed horses and leave the discussion in peace because I don't get it.  I am not offended that others do, just that I am not bright enough to understand what it all is supposed to mean.

Will check back later and hope someone finally just said what happened and where Natalee is right now.  

Later, taters!  

[Lala'sMom]

I told everyone that Simian and Shango discussions were not for the faint of heart.  I have been down this road many, many times.  It's probably more sensitive than discussing those videos that drive me crazy.  Carpe knows this all too well.  I will say this...I have never thought Simian was Albert Vrojlik.  Rob knows this, because I have told him so on many an occasion.  He was kind enough to let me rant and go on without being confrontational to me.  Simian was clearly on the ALE inside.  

Grande
Would you be so kind as to distinguish between the real Simian and the dopplegangers?  Just the dates would suffice for me.  TIA

First post June 17th...

First post with seemingly inside info;  June 23rd...

Last 'post of value'; appx. June 28th.  For some reason I have June 28th @ 2:53am as the last 'post of value'.

I know there are those that wish to ask....how have you determined what is and is not of value?

[blah]

Break time, brb

I hope you not getting mad/frustrated, I can be pretty stubborn I know.

I just aint seeing any significance to Simian or Shango yet, but i'm listening.

And for what its worth, Shango especially is going to be a very tuff sell on me  

From what Grande posted, it seems Simian may have had some legit sources but I'm not convinced he knows what happened - yet.

[Artcolley]

But this still just gives a little sliver of information around the questioning and detention of Paulus.

And most of the details are totally wrong.  He doesn't even know how long the MB kids were in Aruba for example and always says a week instead of Thursday evening until Natalee disappeared on Sunday night.

If he is that far off on this why should we believe anything else he says?  Just knowing slightly ahead of time PVDS was going to be picked up is hardly a case-breaker.  Probably every cop on the island knew this.

JMO

.

My point exactly.
AGain, to me it sounds like a trial baloon for the Darksiders theories.

Yes and Dompig was always particularly fond of saying the MB kids were there for a whole week as well, makes it sound like they really had time to get all that nasty information on them when in case of fact, they did not.

I guess I am just incapable of understanding the importance of S&S because to me they never really told us anything.  Nothing unique to their posts or information but apparently I am missing it.

Off to work and feed horses and leave the discussion in peace because I don't get it.  I am not offended that others do, just that I am not bright enough to understand what it all is supposed to mean.

Will check back later and hope someone finally just said what happened and where Natalee is right now.  

Later, taters!  

See ya later!

[Tylergal]

I thought there were interesting little tid-bits to Marian Ernest in the phone calls or text messages being heard at Bill's House, the bifrons were summoned, etc.  I did clean my computer and dispose of all that at one point but I thought although Mirian Ernest or whatever it was, was interesting to watch/listen to, as the mood reflected how Aruba felt toward the investigation.  The bird on the wire, the bird has flown.  The interest at that point seemed to be one to irritate Americans and hold over their heads that Arubans had something we Americans wanted and could not have.  It was a one-upsman game.  We can outdo you.  Regardless, you will not get your way in this one.  I think that message was clearly conveyed by Anita and Paulus to Arubans, that they must side with them, not the ugly Americans and thus the Hitler and slave comments were absolutely necessary to the Jews and Surinamese on the island to keep that control over them.  So the comments were just to reinforce the sway Anita & Paulus would maintain over the subordinate races and ethnicities.  It shows how easily people are colonized.

[truthseeker2]

Simian tells us the reason for the posting.  No one said he posted what happened to Natalee and where she is now.  Simian does give us insight into the investigation.  Surely no one believes all of the information can be found in the few documents we have seen.

Simian Says: June 30th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
The Simian thinks ydave is way off. The Simian is a relayer. The Simian belongs to an Aruban society much like “Skull & Bones”.

The Simian just wants that everybody knows what is not said in the American Media.