Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[msmarple]

Couple of items in today's Amigoe.com

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  06/05/2007

Demonstration to keep Arashi  

ORANJESTAD – More than 75 people took part in the protest meeting for the preservation of the coastal area Arashi and for the nature conservation in this area.   The action was organized by Stimaruba.  The instance did this as a result of recent reports about plans to build a hotel near Punto Arashi.      

Stimaruba says that a February 2006 publication of Coastal Zone Management, a public-private project for the conservation of coast and sea, mentions that the area is intended for recreation only.  Besides, Stimaruba is of the opinion that the island has sufficient hotels already.  Considering the plans, it seems like there doesn’t come an end to the build of more hotels and apartments.  Tourists do not really like a destination with a lot of traffic, and with that increasing CO2-emission and more and more roads that need to be maintained.   According to Stimaruba-chairwoman Olinda Rasmijn, Arashi is the only reasonable unspoiled area where not only the locals go to enjoy, but also tourists; this area is also the breeding place for some species of birds that have disappeared from the rest of the island.    

The protest meeting was held on the parking lot near the beach of Arashi and started at 11:00.  Several members of Stimaruba gave speeches on the preservation of the area.  After that, the public were given the opportunity to say something.  “Since the nineties, we as Aruban citizens had to make way for hotels.  The only beaches that are left for us to go to are the far-off ones like Arashi and Baby Beach .  But we are the ones that have been allowing this all along.  When we are talking about pollution, we have to look at ourselves.   The Aruban citizen suffers from the Nimby-syndrome (Not in my backyard)”, said one of the protestors.

 

 

PG asks for advice on factual investigation minister Croes  

ORANJESTAD – Procurator-General (PG) Nico Jörg has asked his Neth.Antillean colleague in Curacao for advice on the dossier that the National-detectives have drawn up as a result of the letter that the AVP -party has sent them, which contains possible corruption of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) regarding residence permits.      

A factual investigation is started as a result of AVP ’s letter, which actually does not characterize a reporting of a penal offence.  A factual investigation investigates the facts and behaviours with a possible criminal aspect.  Such investigation can already take place when there are indications that give reasonable suspicion of a penal offence.   A factual investigation can be follow by a criminal investigation.    

The question is now, are the facts that up till now were gathered, a reasonable suspicion of guilt of a penal offence, so that the starting of a criminal investigation is justified or that the factual investigation reveals sufficient clues to allow a criminal investigation that can lead to conclusion and clarification of a penal offence.  

FIRING LINE

The reason for asking his colleague in Willemstad for advice on this decision has to do with his analysis of the penal statute in Aruba .  In an interview with the Wereldomroep last week, Jörg declared that the Aruban penal statute does not have sufficient guarantee that prevents the PG (and the OM ) from wrongfully getting in the political line of fire.  It would be much better if ministers or former ministers can only be prosecuted because politics assumes the responsibility for this and does not pass the buck to the PG.  That will protect the OM against unjust accusations of political manipulation.

Like for example in the Netherlands ; such decisions are reserved for the Lower House or the Crown.  Such system will never work for the ministers in office in Aruba .  That’s the reason why he is looking for another solution.  

SOLUTION

He thinks that he has found a solution within the Cooperation-regulation between Aruba and the Antilles .  The PG’s of Aruba and the Antilles deliberate with each other on a regular basis and give each other advice.  The PG of the Antilles is the official that can give the requested advice.  He is immune to which ever manipulation from Aruba and the government of the Antilles can also not influence his advice to the PG of Aruba .  Any appearance of political influence can this way be avoided; appearance that can harm the confidence in the independence and objectivity of the Public Prosecutor and with that, in a good administration of justice in Aruba in general.

The PG in Willemstad has given the file to the Solicitor General in Willemstad for advice.  The PG of Aruba has already committed to the advice.  Fraud within the Ministry of Justice must in any case be prosecuted.  The judicial-technical advice must reveal whether the factual investigation comes up with sufficient indications to start a criminal investigation.

[nonesuche]

yap thanks, you stated it well and as it should be

blah buddy, it's not you and i have the emails to prove it  

I just hope those who find issue with it will post alternatives to S&S, to me that's the proof of the pudding. steer the discussion where you want it to go  

hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to work i go  

[sharon]

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

Give me a few minutes, I'm double checking but I think that is a FAKE Simian.

Morning!
 
I'll look for your answer klaas -- simian or doppleganger

iirc -- the comment about the 'whiskered rat' was a response to a poster that used a lot of dots (......) in their posts -- the dots were like 'drips' from whiskers.

[yapperz1]

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

The posts above are FAKE - they were posted by someone impersonating Simian.  They were posting from Denver, CO - different email address than Simian as well.

FAKE

Sharon   FYI

[San]

Morning all-

It seems I upset some by suggesting that S&S be discussed yesterday, so I won't be posting much on the lively as a result. I remain confused that whatever I post is an issue with someone, I guess I've been under the mistaken impression that the lively was for discussion of this case and in a democratic nature? some find no value in S&S and therefore I was being rude and wasting others time.

so blah, why don't you take a poll for us today? I know you understood I was just trying to allow for some re-examination since we have so much more PV data and even Grande's details to bring to the S&S table now. I appreciate you understood this, thank you and for your patience and participation.

Gratefully I have a lot of work this week so I'll keep myself busy but I am tiring of being assaulted for having an opinion, or as i did yesterday, for pushing for all opinions to be considered. If ever I were an S&S expert I guess I could understand why I was singled out, but I am not which was evidenced by the few posts I did make during the debate.

I do feel that this case has become very frustrating for many now, myself included in that we are feeling it's all resting on the team from the KPLD to do something, which may or may not happen ultimately. I found discussion of S&S preferable to spiraling off into a depression and pure anger and concern over this stalemate. It seems I was wrong, we should have taken a vote it would appear?

The other concern related to me was that now days and days or even weeks would be spent discussing S&S now. So I challenge those who feel that way to bring other discussions to the lively, for that will accomplish far more than dissing me for daring to suggest we re-examine S&S.

None, I thought discussion of the S&S posts was a good idea.  Especially with all the new information we have to compare.  I don't following it like others but I enjoy how people piece together the information given in those posts.

We are never going agree on the topics discussed on the board but we aren't here to agree with each other on what should be discussed.  The board has been a little slow and it is good to see the pages going by fast when a certain topic is discussed.  If we all have to wait for new information for us to discuss the case then I guess mostly the discussion would be off topic.  I rater hear S&S than O/T.  JMO.

Wanted to thank Lala's, Grande, Klaas, etc. for the S&S discussion because it was interesting to see how everyone came to their own conclusion as to who they think they really are.

[sharon]

I think the hammer drops Friday or Sat.IMO.Fits pattern,Morse code is also for sailors

Yes. It is, Tiger  

[sharon]

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

The posts above are FAKE - they were posted by someone impersonating Simian.  They were posting from Denver, CO - different email address than Simian as well.

FAKE

Sharon   FYI

Thanks yapperz  

So....who in Colorado is in contact with the skank

She sure does get around.....:LA, Aruba....I wonder where else she might have turned up  

[Tiger]

I learned the Morse from a sailor/scout/Ham listener.I know think much of SnS,at this stage.It will not be used by the Dutch,so it is an intellecual experiment only.Yap,you hit the nail on the head with your two points,the only key points left.I have seen police,are often the best at reading people,so when the police focus on someone,often there is a solid reason.Again,Yap is correct.

[yapperz1]

Sharon posted:
<snip>
So....who in Colorado is in contact with the skank

She sure does get around.....:LA, Aruba....I wonder where else she might have turned up  [/quote]

Just pick a path from California to Florida then on to the caribbean  

[COLOMBO]

on " the buoy":


Joran: "Nothing like this has ever happened before."
~~~~~~~~~~
post number 300 in the thread here:     http://tinyurl.com/ynpspc
posted by Tom
I’ve known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a “dangerous” name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don’t know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know…
Still, they DO rock!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap (premeditation)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll” (rock 'n' roll?)
(waking up on the beach=finish line....that HAS happened, many times)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
*Mary who was not a virgin* entered
The DiceMen ROLLED (high rolled?)
Mary ROLLED

*note: more than one house of music
1) Mary
2) Mary who was not a Virgin (mary Magdelene? sold?)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
(when was pvds EVER a judge???   >8-o    )

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.
(the house of Babylon where Mary was-or the one where Mary who was not a Virgin was? or the house where Mary became Mary who was not a virgin (sold)????)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police

[Easywriter]

--.  --

[San]

--.  --

[yapperz1]

Easy  

San how are you feeling?

[San]

Easy  

San how are you feeling?

Morning Yap.

I'm feeling a little better.  It is the cough that is bothering me.  I have an appointment with the doctor this afternoon.  Thanks for asking.

[Easywriter]

Easy  

San how are you feeling?

Something has had me a little sick for a few days.  But, feeling better this morning.  How are you doing?

[yapperz1]

Good to hear you are going back to the dr San.

Easy I am mean as ever  

[San]

Easy  

San how are you feeling?

Something has had me a little sick for a few days.  But, feeling better this morning.  How are you doing?

Sinus infection is almost all gone and so is my fever.  I had the fever for about 4-5 days.  Just want to make sure this cough doesn't get worse.

[San]

Good to hear you are going back to the dr San.

Easy I am mean as ever  

    Sorry about that Easy I answered your question and it was meant for Yap.

[yapperz1]

The problem in the South seems to be the lack of rain to cleanse the air. Just allows the viruses to breed & attack more people.

[Easywriter]

Yap & San - Okay, who is sick and who is mean as ever? lol

I think I sorted it out.  What is going on today?  More S&S while we hope for news?  Those blasted Dutch cops are too quiet!  I don't know if that is good or bad.  Leaning toward bad.....