Lively Case Discussion #636 6/6 - 6/8/2007

[Tylergal]

You would think that mall, and particularly Target, would have improved their security.

Posted: Monday, 30 April 2007 4:11AM

Four Dead in Kansas City Mall Shooting

KANSAS CITY, MO (AP)  -- A man driving a dead woman's car shot a police officer, then opened fire in a parking lot and a mall Sunday, authorities said. By the end of the day, four people, including the gunman, were dead.

The chaos ended when police shot the gunman to death outside a Target store inside Ward Parkway Center in south Kansas City, police spokesman Tony Sanders said.

The gunfire sent shoppers and employees scurrying for cover. Target employee Cassie Bradshaw, 19, of Kansas City was in a break room with two other people when they first heard shots. Then, her co-workers saw a man in his 50s with a rifle ``shooting everywhere,'' she said.

``It sounded like maybe firecrackers at first but then they got louder and louder and louder, and it sounded like someone shooting a gun,'' she said.

The string of violence began early Sunday afternoon, when police went to a home to check on an elderly woman relatives hadn't seen for days. The woman was found dead and her car missing, Sanders said.

The car was spotted later in the day at a gas station by an officer, who pulled the driver over and was shot in the arm, police said. The officer, whose wound was not life-threatening, returned fire and shattered the window of the gunman's car.

The car took off and reports began arriving about 10 to 15 minutes later of shots fired at the shopping center. The man pulled into a parking space and fired at the cars on either side of him, killing two people, authorities said. He fired more shots, wounding at least two people, then went inside the mall, Sanders said.

``Everybody was leaving the mall when the officers ran inside,'' Sanders said. ``They confronted the man and after confronting him, shot and killed him.''

Although witnesses reported hearing shots inside the mall, Sanders could not immediately confirm it.

``We have hundreds and hundreds of witnesses we have to interview and try to determine that,'' he said.

Police did not say how the elderly woman died, or if the gunman was a suspect in her death. But they did say they believed the events were connected.

The mall, one of the city's busiest shopping centers, was shut down and officers went through each store to see if anyone else might have been involved, Sanders said. The gunman and victims' names were not immediately released, and conditions of the wounded were not available.

The wounded officer was treated at an area hospital and released, but the conditions of the other wounded people were not available.

[Atlmetroguy]

Good Morning All...working and lurking today

FYI - The mall/area listed above is a different location than the one where Kelsey was abducted. Not that all locations should not beef up security, just wanted to point out the difference.


<lurk mode enabled>

[WidgetTheMidget]

Kelsey's case is just killing me.  Pretty young girls just graduated from high school running to a Target to grab a gift for her boyfriend and minutes later she is gone forever, because of some monster!  What can be done about this stuff?????

All Little Boys Dinghys Should Be Cut Off At Birth ................

 

[blah]

Kelsey's case is just killing me.  Pretty young girls just graduated from high school running to a Target to grab a gift for her boyfriend and minutes later she is gone forever, because of some monster!  What can be done about this stuff?????

Concealed weapons.

They definitely need some type of loud siren, pepper spray, stun gun, knife, steel toed boots, AK-47......

Watching that fuzzy video, it is hard to understand how that guy did that so quick.  If she had pulled away from him and ran, would he have done anything?

recently, within the last month or so, there was a story in the local news paper around here.  This punk kid went on a crime spree, robbing liquor stores, car jacking, terrorizing the community.  The punk - along with 3 others - ended up at one of them quarter car washes where you wash your car yourself.  The four punks, one with a gun, one with a baseball bat, approached an older gentleman who was washing his car.  The number 1 punk pulled the gun in an attempt to car-jack him.  The older fellow answered by pulling a 45 out of shoulder holster and dropped the punk dead.  The 3 other punks took off running.  It was a great story.  Bad guy dead, 3 others caught and arrested later.  The good guy gets to live.

You NEVER hear these stories on CNN.  And of course the headline in the paper was something like "teen football player gunned down at local carwash" instead of "man thwarts carjacking criminal punk mofo's killing one, saving his own life and putting end to crime spree"

[sharon]

Just posted by Viet Vet on the front page of SM:

Always interesting posts from Viet Vet.

Do we know if he was part of the group who went to the VDSs on night 1?

Or part of Dave's group?

I'm pretty sure he was friends with Jug and Beth and wasn't part of Dave's group but I don't know if he was there the first night.

If this hasn't been answered yet -- I think Viet Vet arrived with "Wednesday's group'.

He mentioned it in one of his first posts.

If I don't see it posted after I 'catch up' -- I will look for it.

[sharon]

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject:    

________________________________________
Posted by Viet Vet just now in the fp area:

Comment 115, you are very correct Mortella, Beth and the first group from Alabama arrived on the Monday, I was with the second group and we arrived on Wednesday at about 11AM.

{snipped}

[Peaches]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

[Atlmetroguy]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

*******************
Hi Peaches...I hear ya!! I lived in Lenexa which is next to OP and shopped at both that Target and Oak Park Mall. Very nice area!! Amazing that that kind of thing can happen there...

[blah]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

The punk thugs are going to continue to take over because their parents dont discipline them, our judicial system does not discipline them, the schools are not allowed to discipline them.  This is the new "entitled generation"  - they have never even been spanked. They are not taught there are consequences to your actions.  They are not taught right from wrong.  They are not punished when they screw up.  

When are people going to learn "time outs" dont work. You have to punish your friggen kids and quit going after the teacher when they try to teach  little Johnny that he cannot just do whatever he wants to little suzie and suffer no consequence.

Until people start teaching these kids responisbility, arm yourself and your kids.  Learn how to defend your self.  More bad guys need to end up dead.

[Mere]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

Good morning friends....

Peaches, I just came home from a wedding in Manhattan, KS.....drove through Kansas and marveled at the beautiful countryside....met some great kids at Kansas State University.....would have never believed that a monster could have come out of the area and taken this child.

[Atlmetroguy]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

The punk thugs are going to continue to take over because their parents dont discipline them, our judicial system does not discipline them, the schools are not allowed to discipline them.  This is the new "entitled generation"  - they have never even been spanked. They are not taught there are consequences to your actions.  They are not taught right from wrong.  They are not punished when they screw up.  

When are people going to learn "time outs" dont work. You have to punish your friggen kids and quit going after the teacher when they try to teach  little Johnny that he cannot just do whatever he wants to little suzie and suffer no consequence.

Until people start teaching these kids responisbility, arm yourself and your kids.  Learn how to defend your self.  More bad guys need to end up dead.

**************************
Right On Blah...we are now living in Generation ME

[Tylergal]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

The punk thugs are going to continue to take over because their parents dont discipline them, our judicial system does not discipline them, the schools are not allowed to discipline them.  This is the new "entitled generation"  - they have never even been spanked. They are not taught there are consequences to your actions.  They are not taught right from wrong.  They are not punished when they screw up.  

When are people going to learn "time outs" dont work. You have to punish your friggen kids and quit going after the teacher when they try to teach  little Johnny that he cannot just do whatever he wants to little suzie and suffer no consequence.

Until people start teaching these kids responisbility, arm yourself and your kids.  Learn how to defend your self.  More bad guys need to end up dead.

**************************
Right On Blah...we are now living in Generation ME

The problem is these perpetrators now have more rights than the victims and their families have.  It will not be long before Uncle Sam will be telling us whether or not we can discipline our children.

[Atlmetroguy]

Good morning.

I am just sick about Kelsey Smith.  

Right now I am glad my girl does not have a summer job, does not hang at the mall, does not yet have her drivers license, is not interested in boys who have cars and would rather talk on the phone with her girlfriends than be out running the street (like that's gonna happen).  I know where she is every minute.  When she's not with me, I know where she is and her phone is on.  At the rate the world is going, she may never leave the house again.

Johnson County Kansas is nice.  I have girlfriend living in that county.  It's freakin' Kansas!  I am just ill over this.  I grew up in the Midwest.  I went to school for a while in Kansas City.  I'm just sitting here shaking my head.........

The punk thugs are going to continue to take over because their parents dont discipline them, our judicial system does not discipline them, the schools are not allowed to discipline them.  This is the new "entitled generation"  - they have never even been spanked. They are not taught there are consequences to your actions.  They are not taught right from wrong.  They are not punished when they screw up.  

When are people going to learn "time outs" dont work. You have to punish your friggen kids and quit going after the teacher when they try to teach  little Johnny that he cannot just do whatever he wants to little suzie and suffer no consequence.

Until people start teaching these kids responisbility, arm yourself and your kids.  Learn how to defend your self.  More bad guys need to end up dead.

**************************
Right On Blah...we are now living in Generation ME

The problem is these perpetrators now have more rights than the victims and their families have.  It will not be long before Uncle Sam will be telling us whether or not we can discipline our children.

********************************
I got news for you...they already do...any parent who spanks a child in public can be turned in DFACS and their children taken away from them.

[Peaches]

I think part of what aggravates me is that the court sends people to jail but can't find a reason to KEEP them.  The reduced sentence crap is for the birds.  Do the crime, do the time.  Need more jails?  Build them.  Better yet, have the freakin' criminals do it.  Fence 'em in and let them learn a trade.

Please don't let me get started today.

[blah]

The problem is these perpetrators now have more rights than the victims and their families have.  It will not be long before Uncle Sam will be telling us whether or not we can discipline our children.

That is the effect and not the cause.

The cause is people are raising criminals.  There are too many criminals walking around and causing over crowding in our prisons.  They are putting a heavy burden on our judicial system.

The real CAUSE of the problem starts at home.  And I agree, the bleeding hearts want the gov to tell people how to discipline our kids.  As if the gov knows how to do anything right.

[Tylergal]

Not disagreeing with you on either point, Metro.  I realized the two Targets were not synonymous but the corporation and the areas are --- heartland.  

Not disagreeing with you either that parents can be turned in for spanking.   I  meant any form of discipline.  I did not make that clear.

[blah]

I think part of what aggravates me is that the court sends people to jail but can't find a reason to KEEP them.  The reduced sentence crap is for the birds.  Do the crime, do the time.  Need more jails?  Build them.  Better yet, have the freakin' criminals do it.  Fence 'em in and let them learn a trade.

Please don't let me get started today.

again, this is the EFFECT of bad parenting.  People are not taught responsibility or respect.  

Fix the problem and you eliminate the effect.  Building more prisons, hiring more police and judges is just putting a band-aid on the problem.   We need to enable the schools to dish out discipline, and we need to force parents to do the same.  Punishing the parents for a kids action would be a good way to start.

[Peaches]

I hear what you're saying, Blah.  I just don't know the answer.  

Is it too late?

[blah]

I hear what you're saying, Blah.  I just don't know the answer.  

Is it too late?

No its not too late.  Not by a long shot.

We tried the "time out" and "count to 3" bullshit and it didnt work.

Time to go back to the old school way of discipline.  We need to move away from this no spanking/entitlement "movement" and start teaching kids a lesson.

Less government involvement in raising our kids and more parenting at home and in schools.  Put the burden our the parents to raise their kids right.  Make them responsible for their own kids and they will make their kids responsible, respectable young adults.

[Easywriter]

Paris Hilton Escapes From Jail!

But it is legal, because her lawyers cut a deal yesterday for an early release.