Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #861 10/16/11 - 12/23/11

[texasmom]

http://media7kcy.onlineview.it/GalleryFilmstrip.aspx?gallery=1309871&mid=28927418&mt=Photo&ci=008

rembrandt 21oct2011

[texasmom]

Justice for Natalee!

 ::justice2NJ::

[Lifesong]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5700.msg878415#msg878415

Please light a candle remembering Natalee and her family's quest for answers.  Since two were created, you may use one or both.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Nat%27s

 ::justice2NJ::

[grace-land]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5700.msg878415#msg878415

Please light a candle remembering Natalee and her family's quest for answers.  Since two were created, you may use one or both.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Nat%27s

 ::justice2NJ::

   Justice for Natalee in 2011!   ::justice2NJ::

[Tamikosmom]

Considering the deadline ... the family of Stephany Flores was not pleased with how long the prosecutor was taking to present the initial case against Joran van der Sloot to the judge and ... then when that case was presented the Flores' attorney stated that the case was flawed to a point that when it went to trial the judge could rule a mistrial.

I believe if Stephany did not have influential/qualified advocates ... Joran would not be facing a trial ... a trial that the Prosecutor Miriam Riveros Castellares appeared to be attempting to prevent from taking place.

+++++

Woman's family wants speedy trial for van der Sloot
By the CNN Wire Staff
August 17, 2011 -- Updated 2200 GMT (0600 HKT

(CNN) -- The family of a slain Peruvian woman is urging prosecutors to file their case against murder suspect Joran van der Sloot, warning that he may be released by December unless the case goes ahead.

"We are worried because Peruvian law says that if a suspect's trial doesn't begin within 18 months after his arrest, authorities are obligated to set the suspect free," Ricardo Flores, the dead woman's father, told CNN.

Van der Sloot faces charges in the May 2010 killing of Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his Lima hotel room. Police say van der Sloot took money and bank cards from her wallet and fled to Chile, where he was arrested a few days later.

Investigators delivered their case file to prosecutors in June for a decision on charges. Ricardo Flores said the prosecutor in the case, Miriam Riveros Castellares, is "not moving with the speed that a case of this magnitude merits."

"We're asking that either the prosecutor file charges or that authorities remove her from this case and name somebody else," he said.

There was no immediate response to the family's concerns from the prosecutor's office.

<snipped>

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/17/peru.van.der.sloot/


Peruvian judges to decide on trial date for Van der Sloot
Published on September 12, 2011

<snipped>

Alvarez said there were also some discrepancies with the evidence presented in the case and the official charges of voluntary manslaughter.

"We have said there are inconsistencies in the prosecution's account and its accusations, between the evidence it uses and what it is asking for. These inconsistencies could bring about negative consequences at trial because it could result in a mistrial," Alvarez said.

<snipped>

http://www.ntn24.com/news/news/peruvian-judges-decide-trial-date-van-der-sloot

s.t.

[Tamikosmom]

The flawed case was given back to the prosecutor but ... the judge was not satisfied with the revision and the case was then give to a "higher" prosecutor who has yet to present the his case against Joran van der Sloot.  In the meantime ... the deadline that could "potentially" allow Joran his freedom is looming.

Janet

+++++

Van der Sloot facing beefed up charges
Published: 9/18 8:52 am
Updated: 5:39 am

Birmingham, Ala (WIAT)  The judge in Joran van der Sloot's murder case in Peru has told the prosecutor to beef up the charges against the Dutchman.

Basically, that means the judge agrees with arguments by the family of victim Stephany Flores that the crime should carry a life sentence.

<snipped>

At a preliminary hearing Monday the prosecution asked for a charge of murder followed by robbery. That would mean a maximum sentence of 30 years.

The Flores family has argued for a charge of robbery followed by murder which would carry a maximum life sentence.

<snipped>

Any delay in the case poses a potential risk that van der Sloot could get out of jail.

By December, he will have been held on remand for the maximum 18 months allowed under Peruvian law. This could mean he will be released and await the remainder of his trial as a free person. Given van der Sloot's history of international flight, that's a risk.

<snipped>

http://www.cbs42.com/mostpopular/story/Van-der-Sloot-facing-beefed-up-charges/zUNCesfA_kiQtUdxhWH74Q.cspx

http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2643990/aanklacht-van-sloot-weer-teruggestuurd.html

Van der Sloot indictment sent back
Last update: October 17, 2011 9:08 p.m.

AMSTERDAM - The Peruvian court that the case against Joran van der Sloot deal, the charges against him for the second time sent back to justice.

The court was not satisfied with the way it was reformulated. The charge is sent to a higher prosecutor, attorney Edward Alvarez said Monday.

Counsel for the family of the murdered Stephany Flores expects the revised indictment within one week is back in court.

If the court accepts the complaint, the actual process against Van der Sloot planned. "That will be in November," said Alvarez.

 ::snipping2::

[Tamikosmom]

It is my prayer on behalf of the members of Stephany's family that the futility felt by Natalee's family is not repeated.

Also ... justice for Stephany Flores will provide of a measure of closure for Natalee's family.  There will be the realization that Joran van der Sloot is in a place that implies other Natalees and Stephanys are not at risk.

Janet

+++++

Loving Natalee
A Mother’s Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway

Page 189:   It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's very, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead. From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.


Medical mystery tour brings (Beth) Holloway to Okoboji
Saturday, June 11, 2011

<snipped>

"For me, I have a perpetrator in prison, so I can't ask for anything more right now," Beth Holloway said. "That's where he belongs and now I'm able to focus and move onward in the help that I can do for others who have missing loved ones -- maybe they don't have recovery of their loved one's remains or they don't have a perpetrator in prison, so my hope is to shed enough light and to help them."

<snipped>

http://www.spencerdailyreporter.com/story/1735599.html


Natalee Holloway's Mom: Aruba Investigators 'Not Following Up on Any Leads'
Wednesday, November 19, 2008

<snipped>

BETH HOLLOWAY: And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.

<snipped

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

[Kermit]

Ribbit!

Kermit ... this is what bothers me.  The Kalpoes and their attorneys must believe that the defamation lawsuit is derived from a solid foundation or ... they would have dropped the lawsuit long ago when the realization set in that Phil McGraw's attorneys were not about to settle.

Anyways ... what will be will be.

Janet

No. The Kalpoe attorneys are trying to hide behind a wall and not hand over documents to Dr. Phil attorney's because they know if those documents are handed over - their goose is cooked.

I trust in "Chip" Babcock! The man is an amazing attorney as I have read through a lot of these documents and he knows exactly what he is doing and how to do it. Amazing study he is. I might put on the kermit suit and show up in court. Heh Heh

[Kermit]

MuffyBee

You could be right.  However ... the longer the this defamation lawsuit drags out ... the more it is going to cost the Kalpoes (or their financial backers) in the end.  Don't they get it.

Janet

Janet,

do a comparison chart on how much money Aruba spends on promoting Tourism to paying attorney fees. Then you'll see the big picture. Apples vs oranges. tourism is why the backers of the Kalpoe lawsuit took place - they are more scared of their economy falling apart then they are about Kalpoes reputation. They [meaning Aruba] has people that are on these boards every day looking up information to send back to their cronies. That is what Caps and his buddies were doing too.....trying to protect their tourism industry.
MuffyBee is correct in her post that if the Kalpoe's had a case, they would already have turned over the documents ordered by the court. Look at that Arlene Ellis-Schipper and how she is claiming attorney client privileged in order to not turn over any correspondence between her and any of the Holloway case stuff. In fact, she stated they have gotten rid of some of it. Remember she is on the board of directors for CMB bank, she is also friends with Paulus at the time of Natalee's kidnapping/murder and she was placed on TV as a spokesperson who continually stated we didn't understand their system. Yet she was paid by the tourism cronies.

Just look how the Robyn Gardner missing in Aruba compares to Natalee and the way Aruba cover ups and can't find American tourists bodies. Just because they are holding Gary in a cell - believe me just like Joran he'll be let out.
And Aruba will say the case is still pending so they don't have to do anything.

Plus, there are plenty of American traitors helping them.

[Tamikosmom]

Ribbit!

Kermit ... this is what bothers me.  The Kalpoes and their attorneys must believe that the defamation lawsuit is derived from a solid foundation or ... they would have dropped the lawsuit long ago when the realization set in that Phil McGraw's attorneys were not about to settle.

Anyways ... what will be will be.

Janet

No. The Kalpoe attorneys are trying to hide behind a wall and not hand over documents to Dr. Phil attorney's because they know if those documents are handed over - their goose is cooked.

I trust in "Chip" Babcock! The man is an amazing attorney as I have read through a lot of these documents and he knows exactly what he is doing and how to do it. Amazing study he is. I might put on the kermit suit and show up in court. Heh Heh

Kermit

I wish I could be as confident as you that the outcome of the defamation case will be positive.  I hope with all my heart that the Kalpoes lose big time but ... I have so many unanswered questions.

Could it be that the Kalpoes will be granted a trial by judge?  Think about it.  The Kalpoes' attorneys have failed time and time again to comply with the court's request to produce case documents and ... time and and time again the judge has failed to rule in favor of motions to dismiss for not complying filed by Phil McGraw's attorneys.

The judge has known from the getgo that no case documents would be forthcoming.  It is my worst fear that the Kalpoes' attorneys have convinced the judge that a manipulated Dr. Phil recording can stand alone.

I also question why McGraw's attorneys required case documents to prove defamation did not occur.  If the Dr. Phil recording was not manipulated ... it should speak for itself.  Deepak was not defamed!  He defamed himself!

I realize that the Dr. Phil recording was tested privately and submitted into evidence but ... I was hoping that FBI confirmation of no manipulation would have been where it was it.

Janet

++++++

Holloway Case: New Kalpoe Documents
Friday, September 14, 2007

<snipped>

KELLY: I believe David Koch (ph), one of the attorneys for the Kalpoes actually signed a declaration at the court indicating that even if the court ordered the documents be turned over, they were not going to turn them over, which was sort of, for lack of a better word, arrogant on his part. The court did not necessarily like that.

But I can't see them both using the courts as a sword and then a shield. They can't bring this action, they can't seek damages and not obey the orders of the court and expect their case to go forward.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296798,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

MuffyBee

You could be right.  However ... the longer the this defamation lawsuit drags out ... the more it is going to cost the Kalpoes (or their financial backers) in the end.  Don't they get it.

Janet

Janet,

do a comparison chart on how much money Aruba spends on promoting Tourism to paying attorney fees. Then you'll see the big picture. Apples vs oranges. tourism is why the backers of the Kalpoe lawsuit took place - they are more scared of their economy falling apart then they are about Kalpoes reputation. They [meaning Aruba] has people that are on these boards every day looking up information to send back to their cronies. That is what Caps and his buddies were doing too.....trying to protect their tourism industry.
MuffyBee is correct in her post that if the Kalpoe's had a case, they would already have turned over the documents ordered by the court. Look at that Arlene Ellis-Schipper and how she is claiming attorney client privileged in order to not turn over any correspondence between her and any of the Holloway case stuff. In fact, she stated they have gotten rid of some of it. Remember she is on the board of directors for CMB bank, she is also friends with Paulus at the time of Natalee's kidnapping/murder and she was placed on TV as a spokesperson who continually stated we didn't understand their system. Yet she was paid by the tourism cronies.

Just look how the Robyn Gardner missing in Aruba compares to Natalee and the way Aruba cover ups and can't find American tourists bodies. Just because they are holding Gary in a cell - believe me just like Joran he'll be let out.
And Aruba will say the case is still pending so they don't have to do anything.

Plus, there are plenty of American traitors helping them.

Ribbit

I concede that it could be that I am not comprehending the entire picture.

Have a good day Kermit.

I am off.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

 

Tea break!

Just a thought.

It was a given from the getgo that case documents would not be released ... case documents that would expose the Aruban investigation for what it was.  Corrupt!

Why did the financial backers of the defamation lawsuit file and then following through with this huge and costly litigation for five years if there was no assurance that they were on a firm foundation?

Just asking.

Janet

[grace-land]

Tea break!

Just a thought.

It was a given from the getgo that case documents would not be released ... case documents that would expose the Aruban investigation for what it was.  Corrupt!

Why did the financial backers of the defamation lawsuit file and then following through with this huge and costly litigation for five years if there was no assurance that they were on a firm foundation?

Just asking.

Janet

Janet, enjoy your tea break!   

Maybe the financial backers thought that Dr. Phil would settle and not continue with costly litigation?   

[grace-land]

 

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/225/BUITENLAND/article/detail/3017761/2011/11/05/Joran-is-een-mooi-persoon.dhtml

Google translation

 ::snipping2::

"Joran is a beautiful person '
11/11/05 10:07 p.m. hours

Topical Program EénVandaag searched Mary Hammer in Florida and figured out what the mission of the American radiologist. Hammer supported Van der Sloot already tens of thousands of dollars and says its spiritual leader to be.

Anniversary reaction
Hammer believes that Joran suffering from PTSD. "When I realized that the murder of Stephany Flores exactly five years after the events in Aruba (the disappearance of Natalee Holloway) took place, I knew from my medical background, that this is an 'anniversary reaction' has been caused by PTSD , "she tells EenVandaag.

The U.S. will travel to Lima every six months with money, clothes, books about Mahatma Gandhi and care items. "He loves peppermint soap and toothpicks." In December, she again. "If you met him personally, you'll experience just what a beautiful person Joran is."

"Mary, I will never lie to you"
Hammer is aware of the manipulative character of Van der Sloot, but feels that he did not manipulate. "He negotiates it, he has good arguments, but he knows when to stop. He knows he has to do with someone like me who is sincere with him. Joran told me: "Mary, I will never lie to you." "

singer
Besides Hammer radiologist is also a singer. She has a song written especially for Joran: "I will rescue you."

The Public Prosecutor demands 30 years in prison in Peru for Van der Sloot and a compensation of 50,000 euros. Hammer: "I will be there to support Joran, forever."

 Monday, November 7 at EénVandaag (AVRO TROS), Netherlands 1, 18.15. (Editorial)

[Tamikosmom]

Tea break!

Just a thought.

It was a given from the getgo that case documents would not be released ... case documents that would expose the Aruban investigation for what it was.  Corrupt!

Why did the financial backers of the defamation lawsuit file and then following through with this huge and costly litigation for five years if there was no assurance that they were on a firm foundation?

Just asking.

Janet

Janet, enjoy your tea break!   

Maybe the financial backers thought that Dr. Phil would settle and not continue with costly litigation?   

If a settlement was anticipated ... the implication is that the financial backers of the Kalpoes' defamation lawsuit had assurance that the Dr. Phil recording had been manipulated to imply that Deepak had confessed to a sexual assault against the person of Natalee Holloway.  What other reason would Phil McGraw settle?

Family gathering tomorrow at daughter's home (hubby and my 46th anniversary) and ... out-of-town guests ... who hubby is picking up at Vancouver International right now ... are staying at our home.  Cleaning house and preparing a roast beef dinner with all the trimmings is where it has been at for most of the day.  Guests won't have a clue that I spend so much time on the computer.

I hope you are having a good Saturday Grace.

Janet
4:00 PM PT

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/225/BUITENLAND/article/detail/3017761/2011/11/05/Joran-is-een-mooi-persoon.dhtml

Google translation

 ::snipping2::

"Joran is a beautiful person '
11/11/05 10:07 p.m. hours

Topical Program EénVandaag searched Mary Hammer in Florida and figured out what the mission of the American radiologist. Hammer supported Van der Sloot already tens of thousands of dollars and says its spiritual leader to be.

Anniversary reaction
Hammer believes that Joran suffering from PTSD. "When I realized that the murder of Stephany Flores exactly five years after the events in Aruba (the disappearance of Natalee Holloway) took place, I knew from my medical background, that this is an 'anniversary reaction' has been caused by PTSD , "she tells EenVandaag.

The U.S. will travel to Lima every six months with money, clothes, books about Mahatma Gandhi and care items. "He loves peppermint soap and toothpicks." In December, she again. "If you met him personally, you'll experience just what a beautiful person Joran is."

"Mary, I will never lie to you"
Hammer is aware of the manipulative character of Van der Sloot, but feels that he did not manipulate. "He negotiates it, he has good arguments, but he knows when to stop. He knows he has to do with someone like me who is sincere with him. Joran told me: "Mary, I will never lie to you." "

singer
Besides Hammer radiologist is also a singer. She has a song written especially for Joran: "I will rescue you."

The Public Prosecutor demands 30 years in prison in Peru for Van der Sloot and a compensation of 50,000 euros. Hammer: "I will be there to support Joran, forever."

 Monday, November 7 at EénVandaag (AVRO TROS), Netherlands 1, 18.15. (Editorial)

 

[Magnolia]

It has always been my opinion that the ATA/ATAHA were angered when Dr. Phil called for a boycott
of Aruba on his show.   That is why they backed the Kalpoes in the lawsuit....to get back at Dr. Phil.
The ATA/ATAHA thought Dr. Phil and company would settle rather than carry on with the lawsuit.
That has not happened and according to Charles Babcock is not going to happen.   If ATA/ATAHA
back off and drop the suit, they will be held liable for legal fees.

I love Charles Babcock!!!

[San]

It has always been my opinion that the ATA/ATAHA were angered when Dr. Phil called for a boycott
of Aruba on his show.   That is why they backed the Kalpoes in the lawsuit....to get back at Dr. Phil.
The ATA/ATAHA thought Dr. Phil and company would settle rather than carry on with the lawsuit.
That has not happened and according to Charles Babcock is not going to happen.   If ATA/ATAHA
back off and drop the suit, they will be held liable for legal fees.

I love Charles Babcock!!!

And it goes to show you how dumb the ATA/ATAHA are thinking Dr. Phil would back down.  Someone didn't do their homework on Dr. Phil. 

[San]

That picture above of Julia Renfro looks so scary.  Something happened to her face which made it even worse than what it was.  Did she have plastic surgery.

[texasmom]

That picture above of Julia Renfro looks so scary.  Something happened to her face which made it even worse than what it was.  Did she have plastic surgery.

Remember a while back, it did seem like she'd had some work done...so I dunno.

But definitely too much sun, booze, and pure meanness imo.  Her skin looks horrible, worse than leather.