Lively Case Discussion #638 6/10 - 6/13/2007

[Elaine]

While looking through various pictures, on line, I notice more and more  pics that appear NOT to be US people.  I don't want to stereotype, and I could be wrong, but I think a lot of their tourist numbers are S. American.

Probably relatives of Chavez...checking the place out

[blah]

   

[crazybabyborg]

If they CAN'T question the 3 prime suspects, then they need to move on to charges and trial date, because the questions and conflicting statements are enough to make a trial worthy and conviction probable. Interrogate them in court while they are criminally charged.

In this country there have been some successful “no body” cases, but there has usually been some type of forensic evidence.  Even with that those cases were tough for the prosecution, because reasonable doubt could be made abundant.

Aruba making that happen in front of one Dutch judge just doesn’t sound very likely to me and if they get off it is over, because they do have double jeopardy rules similar to the U.S.’s.

Easy? I'm afraid that with a Dutch or Aruban investigation that is in charge of bringing charges, it's over anyway. Given a choice, I'd choose to at least put the questions to them in court and have the media expose the obvious, anyway.

[crazybabyborg]

I'm at work and heading out. I'll check back in later!

[Observer]

I think it is quite obvious who should have been question first. Everyone knows that Van Der Straaten and PVDS have been good friends for at least 20 years. Jan worked for PVDS back in the early 90's. PVDS literally has gotten away with murder with things like being allowed to change Joran's statements.

They weren't even truthfull when any of them were taken off the case. Lets look at Jan for a example. He was in the middle of this for a long long time as we were told he was retiring to holland. He currently is the Police Commissioner in Bonaire.

[IndyDan]

I'm still holding out for the Dutch to do what's right and the fact that they are still on the Island gives me hope.  When I hear they've left and nothing happens shortly thereafter, I'll throw in the towel that the VanDerSloots got away with Murder.
I have never hated people that I've never met so much as these savages.

Until they dig up the newly poured concrete in the Sloot back yard I am not satisfied with this Dutch investigation.  I know they had their special equipment but to me it doesn't mean a thing until I see it with my own eyes.  Dig up the pool.

You know, I guess I always thought that if the Dutch were serious and they really wanted to find these people guilty but yet just didn't have anything they could use in a court of Aruban law.  At least, at the very least they should have destroyed the VDS backyard, digging up concrete the whole nine yards.  At least send the message that we know you are murderers and your son is a rapist.  You may get away with it but here's the price you're gonna pay.

[Easywriter]

If they CAN'T question the 3 prime suspects, then they need to move on to charges and trial date, because the questions and conflicting statements are enough to make a trial worthy and conviction probable. Interrogate them in court while they are criminally charged.

In this country there have been some successful “no body” cases, but there has usually been some type of forensic evidence.  Even with that those cases were tough for the prosecution, because reasonable doubt could be made abundant.

Aruba making that happen in front of one Dutch judge just doesn’t sound very likely to me and if they get off it is over, because they do have double jeopardy rules similar to the U.S.’s.

Easy? I'm afraid that with a Dutch or Aruban investigation that is in charge of bringing charges, it's over anyway. Given a choice, I'd choose to at least put the questions to them in court and have the media expose the obvious, anyway.

No media in the courts in Aruba, so we would just be where we are now.

They have a long time to charge them, if something turns up one of these days.  If they do it now, fail to convict and let them walk, that is that.....

[Elaine]

I'm at work and heading out. I'll check back in later!

Hurry back soon.

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys

As far as J2K being interrogated again:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=599&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
<snip>

On August 30, 2005 Judge Smid issued a ruling that Joran should be held another 30 days, flew back to Curacao and immediately faxed in a reversal of his ruling. Two and a half weeks later Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were all released from giving further testimony in the case.

[Buckeye]

Oldfart

It is my understanding that Dr. Phil et al, requested anything in the K2s possession or knowledge, that would address certain points (discovery).  In response to this request, K2 listed a number of PV, etc. in their file.  They did not attach the copy of the documents, only the name. They are now trying to say these items are privileged by some rule 45 (which by the was, also states, communication about file is privileged and David Kock, along with everyone else has discussed items   ).
IMO, Joran's file might have different documents and/or more documents than K2.  The prosecutor may even have more documents, not given to either of them.  I don't have a legal back round, so this post is open for interpretation.

[Elaine]

I'm still holding out for the Dutch to do what's right and the fact that they are still on the Island gives me hope.  When I hear they've left and nothing happens shortly thereafter, I'll throw in the towel that the VanDerSloots got away with Murder.
I have never hated people that I've never met so much as these savages.

Until they dig up the newly poured concrete in the Sloot back yard I am not satisfied with this Dutch investigation.  I know they had their special equipment but to me it doesn't mean a thing until I see it with my own eyes.  Dig up the pool.

You know, I guess I always thought that if the Dutch were serious and they really wanted to find these people guilty but yet just didn't have anything they could use in a court of Aruban law.  At least, at the very least they should have destroyed the VDS backyard, digging up concrete the whole nine yards.  At least send the message that we know you are murderers and your son is a rapist.  You may get away with it but here's the price you're gonna pay.

I agree! Thus my signature line.

[blah]

If they CAN'T question the 3 prime suspects, then they need to move on to charges and trial date, because the questions and conflicting statements are enough to make a trial worthy and conviction probable. Interrogate them in court while they are criminally charged.

In this country there have been some successful “no body” cases, but there has usually been some type of forensic evidence.  Even with that those cases were tough for the prosecution, because reasonable doubt could be made abundant.

Aruba making that happen in front of one Dutch judge just doesn’t sound very likely to me and if they get off it is over, because they do have double jeopardy rules similar to the U.S.’s.

Easy? I'm afraid that with a Dutch or Aruban investigation that is in charge of bringing charges, it's over anyway. Given a choice, I'd choose to at least put the questions to them in court and have the media expose the obvious, anyway.

No media in the courts in Aruba, so we would just be where we are now.

They have a long time to charge them, if something turns up one of these days.  If they do it now, fail to convict and let them walk, that is that.....

I wonder if they could be extradited and tried here if that was the case?  I wonder just exactly how the double jeopardy law works?

[Buckeye]

While looking through various pictures, on line, I notice more and more  pics that appear NOT to be US people.  I don't want to stereotype, and I could be wrong, but I think a lot of their tourist numbers are S. American.

Probably relatives of Chavez...checking the place out

   

[Rob]

Look's like Aruba changed when the last american was murdered back in the late 90's. Ever since then it has been all suicides,accidents or they just vanished.

AND WE HAVE A WINNER FOR THE BIG FIRST PRIZE!

No kidding!!!!.... there is a huge huge HUGE story here. This is nothing new to SA. It's all new to America. The things that have happened on Aruba to all these other people is unreal... and I mean UNREAL!

You all know most of it, but there is a bunch more that has happened to the people left trying to get answers here.... it's an effin disaster.

Anyone going there is a complete idiot...

[Elaine]

I wonder if they could be extradited and tried here if that was the case?  I wonder just exactly how the double jeopardy law works?

I don't know, but that would be great. What I hate about their trials, is they have no jury....just the Judge. So, if the Judge is crooked...

[Buckeye]

KJs BIG case in the Netherlands was gang related.  I had wondered if they weren't going after "a gang" case.  Then I thought, heck, they'd have to include the elders "in the gang" and that would just about wipe out the population.  

[Easywriter]

Anyone going there is a complete idiot...

Or a rat, a charlie rat.  

[igsigs]

I'm trying to understand, but just don't get it. How could the Dutch team have authority to enter the VDS property, dig up their yard, presumably against their wishes, and not possess the authority to ask questions.

They can if they want to, IMO. The Sloot dig was a judicial reversal and the Flying Judges have been in retreat ever since the KLPD took over. Suspect status, Paulus $$, searches and now an extension of the investigation. It is possible that they pass on Joran and go after those that would be witnesses against him > Guido, Freddy, Kalpoes etc...

[Observer]

If they CAN'T question the 3 prime suspects, then they need to move on to charges and trial date, because the questions and conflicting statements are enough to make a trial worthy and conviction probable. Interrogate them in court while they are criminally charged.

In this country there have been some successful “no body” cases, but there has usually been some type of forensic evidence.  Even with that those cases were tough for the prosecution, because reasonable doubt could be made abundant.

Aruba making that happen in front of one Dutch judge just doesn’t sound very likely to me and if they get off it is over, because they do have double jeopardy rules similar to the U.S.’s.

Look at how they handled scott peterson. I believe they will have much more to go on in this case. Yes they waited until the day Laci was found but they would have prosecuted him without a body. The family filed a conjoiner so if this case is dropped they are supposed to get the entire dossier. Should be intersting to see all that was changed and missing.

One of the Aruban attorneys went on record this month and said the family wont file a suit in Aruban courts because they have nothing. We will see.

Think way back to Joran's confession. I know Jossy says he has proof that Joran broke down crying and that he and deepak buried natalee. Is that a fact or fiction?? I havent seen one lie come from jossy yet. Where is that paperwork??

[blah]

I wonder if they could be extradited and tried here if that was the case?  I wonder just exactly how the double jeopardy law works?

I don't know, but that would be great. What I hate about their trials, is they have no jury....just the Judge. So, if the Judge is crooked...

noy only that but it appears to be closed to the media and the victims family.  WHat sort if medieval system operates behind closed doors in this day and age?  I'll tell you - a corrupt one and ONLY a corrupt one.