Lively Case Discussion #638 6/10 - 6/13/2007

[Port Valerie]

I'm glad that Tim Miller is going on his search. I hope he finds Natalee. However, I don't see how the discovery of a body is necessarily going to advance the case against any of the suspects. They'll still have to connect some dots to prove that the suspects were involved. I just don't see it happening.

 

All the "runaway" theories immediately disappear and a contained body in deep water does not say "accidental drowning."  Link the murder to the suspects with the circumstantial evidence and it becomes overwhelmingly clear that there is very little reasonable doubt as to what happened.

Thank you, Easy. I guess I'm still jaded from the OJ case. I have a vision of the three suspects standing with claims of innocence saying "Who me? You'll have to prove. it."

My problem is linking the suspects with the circumstantial evidence, if any is to be found in the water. Which is doubtful.

[Easywriter]

Joran said in his last interview that he thinks Natalee is dead.  I would like one of these people to follow up with the question as to why he thinks she is dead.

This is one of reasons this is SO MADDENING, NOBODY asks the logical followup questions.

except Dana, and he'd RIP Joran a new one! I'd love to see that one on  pay per view and have Carpe Video it.. so we would have the exact second on video when Joran's head imploded!!!

My ultimate interview would be Dana, Zitface, Beth and Jossy.  Now that would be one ass-kicking PayPerView!!

Volunteers would have to come forth and agree to hold zitface down until the questions were all answered.

[Rob]

If we were to take this business about not questioning suspects without new evidence literally, just how long would it take to come up with a good reason to do just that?  “We talked to John Doe and his statement disagrees with yours, so we need you to come back in and clarify.”  Done Deal!

That whole thing sounds like it came from the pretty one’s school of law.  I don’t buy it!

Mike- when you have hand cuffs on ~ you're arrested... not detained ... it's all more of their BS...

They were all arrested and Arlene knows it. And so do I.

[yapperz1]

Easy, you can count me in to help hold him down  

[blah]

Hey I'm with you on most of this, I just dont think ANYONE is intimidated by the likes of fatass Jacobs and Domtpig

I'm not talking about those idiots. They just do what their told.. I mean the Chavez people on the island that could flip it over.

Tony the Tiger scares Jacobs.

the Dutch could wipe Chavez and his people off the map in an afternoon

[oldfart]

Well there ya go.  Nice day trip!!!  

Snoopy

If and when youall start planning a Monkey Meeting/Party please keep me in mind     I do not mind day trips

I'm in too OF.  Just say where and when.

To me  the St. Louis group is in charge of party planning... but if you are in the St.louis area on any of your week-end get aways.. you might  give them a shout.  JMO of course  

[Rob]

Hey I'm with you on most of this, I just dont think ANYONE is intimidated by the likes of fatass Jacobs and Domtpig

I'm not talking about those idiots. They just do what their told.. I mean the Chavez people on the island that could flip it over.

Tony the Tiger scares Jacobs.

the Dutch could wipe Chavez and his people off the map in an afternoon

They could, but I don't think they have the political will. They want balance and harmony not confrontation. They'll leave that to us. They are afraid of Chavez. He is too far away and too strong now. They can rock the boat too much. Or they could really lose it all.

[robots]

all it is going to take is ONE   .........just ONE DUCH investigator to
come clean and BREAK rank if they do not prosecute..
but of course i KNOW the Dutch are going to prosecute so im not worried
BUT in the unlikely chance that they do not.. JUST ONE ..is all it will take
to spill the BEANS

i have faith in the human race..that there is ONE person in the DUTCH team that will come thru.... if people were ROBOTS this case would have been over 2 years ago

ROBOTS can not tell a lie.. i like robots

 

[Tamikosmom]

What is the point of keeping someone under "suspect" status, if you can't ask them about the suspected crime?  I think something is wrong with that interpretation of Dutch/Aruban law.

Easy ... my original thinking was along the same lines.  It was my contention if Joran, Satish and Deepak could not be brought in for further  questioning ... what did the suspect status mean?  However ... I learned that retaining the suspect status implies that the prosecutor has the option of trying them in an Aruban court of law in connection with the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

DECEMBER 30, 2005

ANTONIO CARLO, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY: OK, the information that I can provide at this time is that my client, under the Aruban law, cannot be obligated to come before the (INAUDIBLE) prosecutor to answer questions because he has now -- he has been released without any conditions. So under Aruban -- under Aruban law, he cannot be obligated to be brought forth to answer questions.
Live and Direct - Jane Velez-Mitchell

I bet you money that those Dutch law professors would disagree with Mr. Carlo, law partner of Paulus Van Der Sloot about that one.

It is an ongoing investigation and that requires questioning the MAIN suspects!  These guys can be charged at any time over the next 18 years.  It would just have to start at the beginning once more and go through the 8 days, 8 days, yada, yada, yada.

Easy ... Antonio Carlo is correct ... the Aruban court lifted the conditions of Joran, Deepak and Satish's release which dictated travel restrictions and being available for further questioning.  However ... I have learned that the lifting of these conditions by the Aruban court less than two weeks after their conditional release could have been a manipulation/disregard of Aruban law considering Joran, Deepak and Satish were the prime suspects in the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet.

[Easywriter]

I'm glad that Tim Miller is going on his search. I hope he finds Natalee. However, I don't see how the discovery of a body is necessarily going to advance the case against any of the suspects. They'll still have to connect some dots to prove that the suspects were involved. I just don't see it happening.

 

All the "runaway" theories immediately disappear and a contained body in deep water does not say "accidental drowning."  Link the murder to the suspects with the circumstantial evidence and it becomes overwhelmingly clear that there is very little reasonable doubt as to what happened.

Thank you, Easy. I guess I'm still jaded from the OJ case. I have a vision of the three suspects standing with claims of innocence saying "Who me? You'll have to prove. it."

My problem is linking the suspects with the circumstantial evidence, if any is to be found in the water. Which is doubtful.

There is an abundance of circumstantial evidence in this case.  What is lacking is physical evidence.

If remains were found in a fish trap offshore in deep water, it would indicate that someone disposed of her body.  Joran puts himself with her next to the fisherman’s huts that night where a trap disappeared along with a knife.  His two friends put him at that location with the victim and he has never denied that.  As hard as many have tried they have never been able to put Natalee anywhere after she was with Joran.

Those circumstances conjoined with the physical evidence, which might include the remains of the victim, would put people on death row in parts of this country.

[Tamikosmom]

Hey I'm with you on most of this, I just dont think ANYONE is intimidated by the likes of fatass Jacobs and Domtpig

I'm not talking about those idiots. They just do what their told.. I mean the Chavez people on the island that could flip it over.

Tony the Tiger scares Jacobs.

the Dutch could wipe Chavez and his people off the map in an afternoon

Yah ... but they won't.  Appeasing/tolerating Islam by the democracies of the free world within and without is where it is at.

Janet

[Observer]

What ever became of this?? I thought Jossy had proof that Joran confessed?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1260

According to information that DIARIO is receiving, when Joran van der Sloot was detained he started crying during interrogation and he even told officers that they buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen hutsIt could be deduced that he doesn’t remember precisely where, but in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts, the elder Kalpoe brother buried Natalee. He told police that he would cooperate but that didn’t last long.

As for the Kalpoe Brothers, they also made fun of our authority because they simply told the cops: “No Body means No Case”.

[Easywriter]

What is the point of keeping someone under "suspect" status, if you can't ask them about the suspected crime?  I think something is wrong with that interpretation of Dutch/Aruban law.

Easy ... my original thinking was along the same lines.  It was my contention if Joran, Satish and Deepak could not be brought in for further  questioning ... what did the suspect status mean?  However ... I learned that retaining the suspect status implies that the prosecutor has the option of trying them in an Aruban court of law in connection with the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

DECEMBER 30, 2005

ANTONIO CARLO, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY: OK, the information that I can provide at this time is that my client, under the Aruban law, cannot be obligated to come before the (INAUDIBLE) prosecutor to answer questions because he has now -- he has been released without any conditions. So under Aruban -- under Aruban law, he cannot be obligated to be brought forth to answer questions.
Live and Direct - Jane Velez-Mitchell

I bet you money that those Dutch law professors would disagree with Mr. Carlo, law partner of Paulus Van Der Sloot about that one.

It is an ongoing investigation and that requires questioning the MAIN suspects!  These guys can be charged at any time over the next 18 years.  It would just have to start at the beginning once more and go through the 8 days, 8 days, yada, yada, yada.

Easy ... Antonio Carlo is correct ... the Aruban court lifted the conditions of Joran, Deepak and Satish's release which dictated travel restrictions and being available for further questioning.  However ... I have learned that the lifting of these conditions by the Aruban court less than two weeks after their conditional release could have been a manipulation/disregard of Aruban law considering Joran, Deepak and Satish were the prime suspects in the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet.

Janet, I heard it and read it, but I still don't believe it.  Dutch law, English law, French law, American law, it just doesn't matter.  Having no ability to question an official suspect makes no sense.  And, if there is a technicality hidden in their system, then you get around it by coming up with a reason to ask your questions.

I just don’t think it is as difficult as some think.

[oldfart]

<<snip>>
Easy ... Antonio Carlo is correct ... the Aruban court lifted the conditions of Joran, Deepak and Satish's release which dictated travel restrictions and being available for further questioning.  However ... I have learned that the lifting of these conditions by the Aruban court less than two weeks after their conditional release could have been a manipulation/disregard of Aruban law considering Joran, Deepak and Satish were the prime suspects in the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet.

Tamikosmom  - TamsMom - Janet
  How do you prefer I address/quote you    
BTW since I do not think we have formally met  I'm  Oldfart or OldF but please not OF..  (Too many hits by the search engine   )  

I do like the thought you put into your posts.. so here is a question.
The Kalpoe's were at one time ready to leave the island .. but as far as I can tell have NOT since the restriction was lifted.  Why Not?  Just seems a little strange to me.  TIA

[blah]

Hey I'm with you on most of this, I just dont think ANYONE is intimidated by the likes of fatass Jacobs and Domtpig

I'm not talking about those idiots. They just do what their told.. I mean the Chavez people on the island that could flip it over.

Tony the Tiger scares Jacobs.

the Dutch could wipe Chavez and his people off the map in an afternoon

Yah ... but they won't.  Appeasing/tolerating Islam by the democracies of the free world within and without is where it is at.

Janet

too many years of appeasment is exactly why the world is as screwed up as it is today

[robots]

What is the point of keeping someone under "suspect" status, if you can't ask them about the suspected crime?  I think something is wrong with that interpretation of Dutch/Aruban law.

Easy ... my original thinking was along the same lines.  It was my contention if Joran, Satish and Deepak could not be brought in for further  questioning ... what did the suspect status mean?  However ... I learned that retaining the suspect status implies that the prosecutor has the option of trying them in an Aruban court of law in connection with the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

DECEMBER 30, 2005

ANTONIO CARLO, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY: OK, the information that I can provide at this time is that my client, under the Aruban law, cannot be obligated to come before the (INAUDIBLE) prosecutor to answer questions because he has now -- he has been released without any conditions. So under Aruban -- under Aruban law, he cannot be obligated to be brought forth to answer questions.
Live and Direct - Jane Velez-Mitchell

I bet you money that those Dutch law professors would disagree with Mr. Carlo, law partner of Paulus Van Der Sloot about that one.

It is an ongoing investigation and that requires questioning the MAIN suspects!  These guys can be charged at any time over the next 18 years.  It would just have to start at the beginning once more and go through the 8 days, 8 days, yada, yada, yada.

Easy ... Antonio Carlo is correct ... the Aruban court lifted the conditions of Joran, Deepak and Satish's release which dictated travel restrictions and being available for further questioning.  However ... I have learned that the lifting of these conditions by the Aruban court less than two weeks after their conditional release could have been a manipulation/disregard of Aruban law considering Joran, Deepak and Satish were the prime suspects in the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet.

Janet, I heard it and read it, but I still don't believe it.  Dutch law, English law, French law, American law, it just doesn't matter.  Having no ability to question an official suspect makes no sense.  And, if there is a technicality hidden in their system, then you get around it by coming up with a reason to ask your questions.

I just don’t think it is as difficult as some think.

i agree with Easy on this one. no offense to Janet because she ROCKS
big time... i think its just a smoke screen
wanted to ask the suspects some questions THEN they could come up with some legitimate reasons to do so.. otherwise no case would ever get solved

 

[oldfart]

What ever became of this?? I thought Jossy had proof that Joran confessed?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1260

According to information that DIARIO is receiving, when Joran van der Sloot was detained he started crying during interrogation and he even told officers that they buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen hutsIt could be deduced that he doesn’t remember precisely where, but in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts, the elder Kalpoe brother buried Natalee. He told police that he would cooperate but that didn’t last long.

As for the Kalpoe Brothers, they also made fun of our authority because they simply told the cops: “No Body means No Case”.

*******
In Aruba & most countries (I think)  a confession without additional facts is not a crime.  People confess to crimes (that they do not do) a lot.  If you recant the story as a suspect ... you were just lying.. and suspects lie all the time.  JMO  of course

[Observer]

What ever became of this?? I thought Jossy had proof that Joran confessed?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1260

According to information that DIARIO is receiving, when Joran van der Sloot was detained he started crying during interrogation and he even told officers that they buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen hutsIt could be deduced that he doesn’t remember precisely where, but in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts, the elder Kalpoe brother buried Natalee. He told police that he would cooperate but that didn’t last long.

As for the Kalpoe Brothers, they also made fun of our authority because they simply told the cops: “No Body means No Case”.

I still cannot get this freaking story out of my head. Two days later Jossy has the copy of Joran's confession that Deepak probably Raped and Killed Natalee. Joran says this also happened by the fisherman huts...No follow up questions why he thinks that...WTH???Deliberate attempt to take the focus off his confession two days earlier and towards Deepak??

[oldfart]

Robots
I do believe that most non-gulity people will tell the truth when questioned by authorities.  And even guilty people will tell some of the truth when "Asked the correct questions"

Given what I have seen of the PV's (which may not be accurate but I'm betting that they are)  grade school childern could have conducted better interviews (to find out who swiped their lunch). Than ALE did.

I think I recall where it was reported the the FBI more or less shook their head & through up their hands at the way things were conducted.. I think I have an idea why they would have done that.
JMO

[Observer]

What ever became of this?? I

*******
In Aruba & most countries (I think)  a confession without additional facts is not a crime.  People confess to crimes (that they do not do) a lot.  If you recant the story as a suspect ... you were just lying.. and suspects lie all the time.  JMO  of course

They sure believed Joran's lie then because they went public with it and Natalee's family started grieving...THe next day they said it never happened and that it was mis-information. Why didn't they just say Joran lied??Instead of denying it ever happened??

I will forever stay focused on June 9th-13th..So many unexplained events!!