Lively Case Discussion #638 6/10 - 6/13/2007

[oldfart]

OF check your email buddy oh and don't look in the lounge I posted a new

cupcake photo  

we got rain again tonight, that's twice in 3 days, I sure hope this glides further south to ga, tn, and al soon

I'm off to beddy bye, hope everyone has a good night, rest well !

NoneS
Will do & G'Nite

BT
I can send it to you... BUT think Robots & others would like it too bu posting it...This is the LCD...
Do you have the Finger Smiley for your collection ???

Finger smiley? That doesn't sound familiar.

[oldfart]

Boy I messed that Quote up big time.... Where is my Tooth brush??

[BTgirl]

OF - please do send it.

Thanks!  

I'm off to sleep now. Night everyone.

[BTgirl]

Boy I messed that Quote up big time.... Where is my Tooth brush??

[Grande]

What ever became of this?? I

*******
In Aruba & most countries (I think)  a confession without additional facts is not a crime.  People confess to crimes (that they do not do) a lot.  If you recant the story as a suspect ... you were just lying.. and suspects lie all the time.  JMO  of course

They sure believed Joran's lie then because they went public with it and Natalee's family started grieving...THe next day they said it never happened and that it was mis-information. Why didn't they just say Joran lied??Instead of denying it ever happened??

I will forever stay focused on June 9th-13th..So many unexplained events!!

*******
Thats were we disagree...
My focus (what there is of it) is May 31st until they were detained simply for the LACK of events that occurred.

Deepak states that after Beth's group & the police left on 5/31 they went to Jorans room and talked with Paulis about (paraphrase here) "what they had learned" until 6:10 (?) in the morning.. sure they did

The ALE conducts interviews that afternoon of J2K at different times.
The ALE ask the K's about "a stop at a beach" which they deny.
Mickey J. and Abraham J. are detained without being questioned.
J2K are detained w/o any further interview as a witness 9-10 days after their only interview??
And I do not buy into the surveillance (before detention) story  ALE story either.
JMO

All of the above are of interest to me.  

Another statement regarding those first few days of interest is the contradiction in statements regarding where Joran was on Monday from 18:00 until Beth arrived at his home.  

For instance, according to Deepak's June 13th PV he claims to have called Joran @ 18:00.  Deepak states "he at that moment in time was in the casino of the Wyndham and that he was there together with Guido"

???????????????????

According to Paulus he had dropped Joran off at the Racquet Club for his 18:00 tennis lesson.  Joran also claims to have attended this tennis lesson in his June 14th PV.   If Deepak's PV is accurate that is a very significant gap in the timeline.  According to Joran he did not arrive at the Wyndham (by foot, from the racquet club - BS!! ) until 20:00 when he met Andre.

Another interesting tidbit from Andre Santos' June 20th PV;  "Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with"

GUIDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  YOU MOTHER FU*&ER!!!!!!!

More gaps from midnight until Natalee's family & friends arrive.  ALL OF THEM REVOLVE AROUND GUIDO!

[oldfart]

<<snip>>
Another interesting tidbit from Andre Santos' June 20th PV;  "Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with"
<<snip>>

Yes..
But at what time?... and what type of car would they have been in?
Is it something close looking to Deepak's?
Just Wondering

[Grande]

<<snip>>
Another interesting tidbit from Andre Santos' June 20th PV;  "Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with"
<<snip>>

Yes..
But at what time?... and what type of car would they have been in?
Is it something close looking to Deepak's?
Just Wondering

Guido's is a WHITE Nissan sentra.  This may be the same period Joran referred too in his June 14th PV when he claims him and Guido went to the Aruba Grant which I believe was between 22:30 and 23:00.  

Andre's June 20th PV is the most critical IMO.  It contradicts many of Joran's statements and timeline.  I am inclined to believe Joran & Guido were together from 18:00 until appx. 2:15 when Joran & Deepak went to back to the Wyndham or claimed to anyway.  

Sure would be nice to see Humphrey Hose's PV (Registered officer of the Aruba racquet club - Aruba's "Grandfather of tennis" - ACCOMPLICE???)

[Grande]

<<snip>>
Another interesting tidbit from Andre Santos' June 20th PV;  "Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with"
<<snip>>

Yes..
But at what time?... and what type of car would they have been in?
Is it something close looking to Deepak's?
Just Wondering

Guido's is a WHITE Nissan sentra.  This may be the same period Joran referred too in his June 14th PV when he claims him and Guido went to the Aruba Grant which I believe was between 22:30 and 23:00.  

Andre's June 20th PV is the most critical IMO.  It contradicts many of Joran's statements and timeline.  I am inclined to believe Joran & Guido were together from 18:00 until appx. 2:15 when Joran & Deepak went to back to the Wyndham or claimed to anyway.  

Sure would be nice to see Humphrey Hose's PV (Registered officer of the Aruba racquet club - Aruba's "Grandfather of tennis" - ACCOMPLICE???)

I should clarify;  By accomplice I mean facilitator of concealing of evidence or harboring criminals so to speak.  Either Paulus and Joran felt safe at the ARC or something was there...  Joran claimed to be there for his tennis lesson on Monday from 18:00 until 19:15, then also claims to have been dropped off there on Tuesday at 17:00, again by his father this almost immediately after being questioned @ 16:00 at Bubali.   Lastly, with regards to the Racquet Club I noted in Satish's June 24th statement he initially states he and Deepak went to the Racquet club to meet Joran on Wednesday June 1st in the evening hours and then later (SAME STATEMENT ??) states he went to Joran's apartment rather than the ARC.

[oldfart]

Grande
Like WE ALL have said.. It would be nice to see all of the PV's and may now know why the FBI (and maybe now the Dutch) may have been was ALE  doing


G'nite Gang
SeeYaByee

[Grande]

Grande
Like WE ALL have said.. It would be nice to see all of the PV's and may now know why the FBI (and maybe now the Dutch) may have been was ALE  doing


G'nite Gang
SeeYaByee

Night

[Observer]

TJ Ward may know some of those answer's. He was looking into the sloots having another property by the Raquet club and he also stated that he thinks they may have grabbed the wrong car(Deepak's) He did blow apart a few oj Joran's Alibis like playing tennis the day after NH went missing. I hope to god the family knows more than we do and are not disclosing info because of the obvious.

[oldfart]

<<SNIP>>
I should clarify;  By accomplice I mean facilitator of concealing of evidence or harboring criminals so to speak.  Either Paulus and Joran felt safe at the ARC or something was there...  Joran claimed to be there for his tennis lesson on Monday from 18:00 until 19:15, then also claims to have been dropped off there on Tuesday at 17:00, again by his father this almost immediately after being questioned @ 16:00 at Bubali.   Lastly, with regards to the Racquet Club I noted in Satish's June 24th statement he initially states he and Deepak went to the Racquet club to meet Joran on Wednesday June 1st in the evening hours and then later (SAME STATEMENT ??) states he went to Joran's apartment rather than the ARC.

Where were the boys in the evening of 5/31..  this would be after Beth's meeting in early a.m. , Statements to ALE after school and into the evening?
Why?  NO ONE (that we know about) saw them at the beach. We have them close to the beach near the ARC by the gardener.

It's starting to come down to ME.. If I believe the gardener or NOT..
And how to fit his time into what we semi know from phone/computer times(which I question)

It's late.. been a bad Monkey but will leave this for thought for the smarter Monkeys

Is the raquet club located between the Huts and Natalee's hotel (even if not on the beach)?
If it is (which I think it is) and If Joran mentions the beach drop off in his 5/31 statement (which I think he did) and if by chance Natalee had been found near the raquet club on 5/31 - 6/1  Could Joran have said..
I left her at ehe huts..She must woke up and been walking back to the hotel and something happened to her part way there. ?
AND
I have always wonderd why Joran was said to be in the drivers seat when sighted by the gardner.  Anyone else ever wonder about that?

Well an old memory hit me durning a NAP (short) this evening..
Let's just say many,, many years ago  friends & I were doing something we should not have been one night ... when headlight suddenly appeared we all jumped into the nearest  car door and tried to look nothing was going on.
Sorry for the rambling  but like I said.. Go with the Gardener or Not.. & how does it fit or not fit.
G'nite All     (really G'Nite)
SeeeYaaaByeee

[Grande]

<<SNIP>>
I should clarify;  By accomplice I mean facilitator of concealing of evidence or harboring criminals so to speak.  Either Paulus and Joran felt safe at the ARC or something was there...  Joran claimed to be there for his tennis lesson on Monday from 18:00 until 19:15, then also claims to have been dropped off there on Tuesday at 17:00, again by his father this almost immediately after being questioned @ 16:00 at Bubali.   Lastly, with regards to the Racquet Club I noted in Satish's June 24th statement he initially states he and Deepak went to the Racquet club to meet Joran on Wednesday June 1st in the evening hours and then later (SAME STATEMENT ??) states he went to Joran's apartment rather than the ARC.

Where were the boys in the evening of 5/31..  this would be after Beth's meeting in early a.m. , Statements to ALE after school and into the evening?
Why?  NO ONE (that we know about) saw them at the beach. We have them close to the beach near the ARC by the gardener.

It's starting to come down to ME.. If I believe the gardener or NOT..
And how to fit his time into what we semi know from phone/computer times(which I question)

It's late.. been a bad Monkey but will leave this for thought for the smarter Monkeys

Is the raquet club located between the Huts and Natalee's hotel (even if not on the beach)?
If it is (which I think it is) and If Joran mentions the beach drop off in his 5/31 statement (which I think he did) and if by chance Natalee had been found near the raquet club on 5/31 - 6/1  Could Joran have said..
I left her at ehe huts..She must woke up and been walking back to the hotel and something happened to her part way there. ?
AND
I have always wonderd why Joran was said to be in the drivers seat when sighted by the gardner.  Anyone else ever wonder about that?

Well an old memory hit me durning a NAP (short) this evening..
Let's just say many,, many years ago  friends & I were doing something we should not have been one night ... when headlight suddenly appeared we all jumped into the nearest  car door and tried to look nothing was going on.
Sorry for the rambling  but like I said.. Go with the Gardener or Not.. & how does it fit or not fit.
G'nite All     (really G'Nite)
SeeeYaaaByeee

DISREGARD THE 'ALLEGED DROP OFF SITE'  S/B General area Gardner allegedly spotted J2k + Natalee.

[Kermit]

Paris Hilton #9818783
Century Regional Detention Facility
11705 S Alameda Street
Lynwood CA 90262

[Kermit]

ARUBA RACQUET CLUB

[Kermit]

ARUBA RACQUET CLUB VIEW

[IBE]

In the air shot just posted, where was the spot the gardener saw them??

Is that another air picture that shows the roads better around that pond??

If there are some connecting roads near the pond.. that would go along with my idea I posted a few mos. ago how the cut up body in Carpe's photos in the bag, the missing shoes and a rumor of k2's car being heard driving around the pond for a few nights afterwards.

[Kermit]

ARUBA RACQUET CLUB HOMES - NOW



RACQUET CLUB HOMES BEING BUILT WHEN GARDNER SAW JORAN AT THE CLUB

[IBE]

Kermit I've been to that jail to pick up someone from a DUI. Sure didn't even like being around there.

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/12/

PRESO RAMON ANGEL RODRIQUEZ A FAYECE
Autopsia lo tin di determina su morto
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Riba Dialuna, famia y tambe autoridad concerni a worde notifica cu e preso Ramon Rodriguez cu a worde interna pa problema cu curazon a fayece inesperadamente. Ramon a worde condena pa ta den poder di arma di candela, el a comete destruction y a asesina e homber Elvis Savalla. Mas bien e tabata un caso pasional cu a hinca Ramon den problema serio pa colmo un supuesto amigo a preste dune un arma di candela.

Huez a condena Ramon 12 aña di prison, pero el a apela e caso cu porcierto tin di tuma lugar dialuna den corte comun (Hof). Pero mientras tanto Ramon a fayece den Dr. Horacio Oduber Hospital direpiente.

Mientras tabata tin otro informe cu durante Ramon ta sinta su condena den KIA ,el a cuminsa haya sintomanan di problema di curazon. Segun informe pa esnan cu conoce cu nunca a duna di conoce di tin problema, examen medico a determina esaki y tramitenan a cuminsa worde haci pa Ramon tin di ricibi tratamento medico.

A yega asina leu cu a logra pa Ramon worde transporta pa Hulanda y lo keda interna den hospital cu ta atende detenidonan. Fin di siman Ramon tabata e intencion acompaña pa guardianan di KIA e lo aborda avion di KLM rumbo pa Hulnda pa e ricibi e tratamento necesario, pero tur esfuerso cu a worde haci pa logra esaki a worde cancela ya cu direpiente a drenta informe cu Ramon a fayece.

Fiscal a laga confisca e curpa di Ramon pa practica autopsia y determina causa di su morto. Locual ta su amigo Dichi Lacle cu tambe ta sera debi di a facilita segun e investigacion pa cual tambe el a worde condena si lo tin di presenta den corte coumnu ya cu elo a apela e sentencia.

Den su caso dia e a presenta den corte a tume masha na malo di a facilita e arma na Ramon sea conciente of inconciente cu e resultado fatal. DIARIO ta extende palabranan di profundo condolencia na famia di fayecido y Ramon sosega den tur tranquilidad.

Online Pap translation:

preso ramon angel rodriquez owing to fayece
autopsia will have of determina his dead

oranjestad (aan): on monday, family y also autoridad concerni owing to worde notifica cu the preso ramon rodriguez cu owing to worde interna for problem cu curazon owing to fayece unexpectedly. ramon owing to worde condena for is in power of arm of candela, past owing to comete destruction y owing to asesina he elvis savalla. more bien the was one caso pasional cu owing to hinca ramon in problem earnest for colmo one supuesto amigo owing to preste dune one arm of candela.

huez owing to condena ramon 12 year of jail, but past owing to apela the caso cu porcierto have of take lugar monday in corte comun (hof). but all the time ramon owing to fayece in dr. horacio oduber hospital all of a sudden.

while was have another informe cu during ramon is sit his condena in kia come across,el owing to cuminsa achieve sintomanan of problem of curazon. according informe for esnan cu conoce cu never owing to give of conoce of have problem, examen medico owing to determina this y tramitenan owing to cuminsa worde haci for ramon have of ricibi tratamento medico.

owing to arrive so far cu owing to succeed for ramon worde transporta for the netherlands y will stay interna in hospital cu is atende detenidonan. end of week ramon was the intencion acompaña for guardianan of kia the will aborda plane of klm direction for hulnda for her ricibi the tratamento necesario, but all attempt cu owing to worde haci for succeed this owing to worde cancela already cu all of a sudden owing to enter informe cu ramon owing to fayece.

fiscal owing to let confisca the curpa of ramon for practica autopsia y determina cause of his dead. locual is his amigo dichi lacle cu also is close debi of owing to facilita according the investigacion for cual also past owing to worde condena if will have of present in corte coumnu already cu elo owing to apela the sentencia.

in his caso day the owing to present in corte owing to tume very at bad of owing to facilita the arm at ramon as conciente or inconciente cu the result fateful. daily paper is extende words of deep condolencia at family of fayecido y ramon sosega in all tranquilidad.

* * *

Apparently an inmate at KIA, Ramon Angel Rodriguez, died unexpectedly at the hospital. Also apparently, there were plans to send him to Holland for treatment. But all this seems to have erupted just prior to or during a court appeal.  He seems to have been in prison for killing Elvis Savalla with a firearm.

Understand that your guess is as good as mine (above) as to what happened here.