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Author Topic: Aliayah Lunsford, 3yo #1  (Read 199006 times)
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« Reply #160 on: October 01, 2011, 11:32:47 PM »

Am I allowed to post something from a poster at WS, with url, of course?  There is a very enlightening and educated post, that really touched me in regards to this case and those in the possible same category as the Haliegh case, in Aleyiah's and others.   It is very thought provoking and so true.   If I can, do I need to snip, since it's from an educated poster, not a news organization, providing credit where its due?
Hi Dihannah1~

As far as I know, you are allowed to post with a source link/credit link even if you have to be a member to see the post at the link.
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« Reply #161 on: October 02, 2011, 12:05:19 AM »

I suppose the mods can delete if necessary, but it's made me think about my own judgements and some of the cases we've followed, judged and commented on, such as Hayleigh and others who fall under this steryotype.  I live in central OH and not too far from the edge of the Appalacians and have seen first hand, yet i quickly passed judgement.  This poster has experience, yet very valid points, even though a couple other posters their were a little offended, most were inspired and I found it educational or I should say thoughtful.  The poster is located near Aliayah in WV and has some experience in this area I find interesting and makes me think of my own judgements of those less fortunate or less educated.  My current stance is that the immediate family are involved, but something to think about when judging people. We can all benefit from this advice.
Credit is due to HBDiva from WS.
Edit -Fix name typo, per Dihannah1.  MB
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150199&page=28

There's been some conversation about Child Protective Services, foster parenting, etc. etc and I'd like to throw some thoughts into the ring.

My academic discipline was anthropology with an emphasis on Appalachian culture. Specifically, I was interested in how the hillbilly stereotype was born and how it was propagated and how it's still and stupidly (in my opinion) regarded as gospel. Since paying gigs in anthropology are few and far between, I work for the state's largest nonprofit working to prevent child abuse. We're an umbrella organization housing three major programs and a multitude of smaller ones all designed around strengthening families and communities, advocating for child-centered policies, and improving the infrastructure of parenthood and childhood. For those of you interested, take a gander at http://www.preventchildabusewv.org or http://www.wvpartners.org or http://www.wvctf.org

For a few years, I also had a part-time gig with an emergency shelter for teenagers removed from their homes for one reason or another.

I'm immersed in data and raw statistics on a daily basis related to child welfare issues in West Virginia and the nation. West Virginia has a high rate of child maltreatment - not because we're hillbillies, but because we're poor aka "economically stressed." The good news is that because of our programs and a multitude of others around the state, documented cases of child abuse have declined 39% over the past five years according the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services. It's also been a blessing that WV has weathered the economic crisis of the past few years much better than most states. My personal opinion is we've been poor so long, we haven't much noticed the current "economic downturn."

Child abuse, including neglect, is very seldom intentional. As I'm sitting here writing this, the incidence of child maltreatment is increasing in some very surprising places - middle and upper middle class suburbs of large, urban areas. The supposition is that as more and more Americans are becoming "economically stressed", children are suffering. It's hard to parent well when the bank is foreclosing and unemployment benefits have run out.

One of the truths that guides our organization is that by the time Child Protective Services becomes involved, we have ALREADY failed to protect the child. CPS does not get involved until there's an allegation of mistreatment and they don't intervene until mistreatment is substantiated. And even when it is substantiated, removing children from the home is a last resort. This is not just true in WV, it's true for the nation.

Between my parents' experiences as foster parents and my experiences with the agencies I've worked for - with few exceptions, children love their parents regardless of how they've been treated. And with few exceptions, the parents have loved the children. I have listened to teenagers overly concerned with being uber-cool sob because they have been taken from their homes. I have wanted to throttle some of their parents and then I hear mom and dad sob. There's a lot of crying at children's shelters. Breaking that bond damages everyone further except in the most extreme of cases. When a child doesn't want to go home, that's a major sign that it's severe, unspeakable abuse.

Most of us have said at one time or another there oughta be a licensure test for parenting. I have been persuaded by the studies, the stats, and the stories I hear from children that the answer is not (generally) to separate children and parents. The answer is to increase the likelihood that parents will parent well and communities will support parents.

I don't know a lot of the details of Aliyah's case. I tend to shy away from cases like this, because I'm immersed in too many sad stories as it is. I don't think this story will end well - just a gut feeling. And if I'm right, please God, I hope not, this case is not typical of child maltreatment either in WV or the nation at large.

If we want to end child maltreatment, the answer is not increased jail time or more foster parents or more shelters or more reporting requirements. The answer is not a better Amber Alert system or more vigilant law enforcement personnel. Remember, by the time those solutions are invoked, the child has already been harmed.

[Don't get me wrong. Foster parents and CPS workers and LE and judges and shelter workers and victim advocates all deserve huge paychecks, an annual parade, and a special place in heaven. The Amber Alert system has been a godsend.]

The first six years of life are critical and what happens in those years colors all the years that follow. What is happening to brain architecture in those years is awesome. See: http://unitedwayrivercities.org/sb6.html

The solution to child maltreatment is preventing it in the first place through better schools, more playgrounds, Little League, scouting, nutrition, better access to health care, quality daycare, jobs that pay enough to support a family. The answer is understanding child development and conveying that understanding to expectant and new parents. Better yet, infusing it into school curricula. Parenting 101 for high schoolers. It's taking a casserole to a new mom and offering to babysit for a couple of hours while she catches up on sleep.

On the surface of things, Aliyah's family did some things right. It appears there's access to health care. It appears there's adequate housing. Mom did call 911. StepDad has a job. The family has transportation. The response of the community has been awesome. With a major FBI facility in Clarksburg, WV, some of the best and brightest minds are on the case.

In various comments on CNN and in other places, I've seen the hillbilly stereotype exploding. Allegations of incest, inbreeding, missing teeth, secretive, isolated, lazy, backwards, distrust of outsiders, blah blah blah blah. It diminishes that sweet baby girl to color her with that paintbrush. It diminishes us all. If any of those characteristics prove to be accurate in this case, it's not because we're hillbillies. It's because those characteristics occur anywhere and everywhere with an outcome that is seldom good.

If you want to protect a child, any child, every child, support the families and advocate for child-centered policies. Just as in healthcare and security systems, prevention is more effective than intervention.

I'll quit blathering now. Lord, Lord, I hope they find her safe.

HBDiva
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 09:16:08 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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Dihannah1
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« Reply #162 on: October 02, 2011, 12:09:11 AM »

Correction and my apologies.  It was from HBDIVA, not HDDIVA.  Very wise person.
Fixed.  MB
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 09:15:45 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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« Reply #163 on: October 02, 2011, 12:28:09 AM »

I hae been looking for a picture of Lena Lunsford....just curious, I guess.

Here is a link to a picture of Lena and her mother halfway down page.

http://mockforums.net/thread-6573-page-3.html


« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 03:48:59 PM by klaasend » Logged

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« Reply #164 on: October 02, 2011, 12:40:16 AM »

WESTON -- UPDATE Saturday 8:00 p.m.

The W.Va. Dept. of Health and Human Resources removed the children living in the Lunsford home on Dennison street at 9 p.m. Friday, county officials said. They did not give a reason.

Search teams are now only comprised of law enforcement and other professionals in order to protect the integrity of the investigation, officials said. Volunteers can organize on their own, but can only search private land with the owners' permission. If they do need more volunteers in the future, officials said they will alert the public.

----- UPDATE

Lena Lunsford hired Charleston attorney Tom Smith Friday.

continued..

http://wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=109093
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Jazzy
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« Reply #165 on: October 02, 2011, 12:43:41 AM »

Sorry I dont buy the part of supporting the family. due to look at Casey and a number of other children that went missing and ended up dead or worse not found at all. Look at Casey she had the support of her mom, dad and Lee in the beginning until she abused that support, Then you have Terri Horman Im sure Desiree would of been more then willing to of had her son. Theres so many I also dont buy economy is to blame.

MOO is each of us are responsible for our own action and I can bet if human rights would step the heck back and we start hangings, and firing squads on these murderers I bet there would be alot less killing. But have it in the middle of town so the public can see it and dont just do one do all who are on death row. stop giving them 10 to 20 yrs if they are guilty and are to be executed then go ahead and do it. We need to stop coddling prisoners make it he77 to be in prison or jail.
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« Reply #166 on: October 02, 2011, 12:48:57 AM »

WESTON -- UPDATE Saturday 8:00 p.m.

The W.Va. Dept. of Health and Human Resources removed the children living in the Lunsford home on Dennison street at 9 p.m. Friday, county officials said. They did not give a reason.

Search teams are now only comprised of law enforcement and other professionals in order to protect the integrity of the investigation, officials said. Volunteers can organize on their own, but can only search private land with the owners' permission. If they do need more volunteers in the future, officials said they will alert the public.

----- UPDATE

Lena Lunsford hired Charleston attorney Tom Smith Friday.

continued..

http://wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=109093

Why do they all run and get lawyers if they are so innocent in their child going missing? I bet when all is said and done she will blame hubby/bf on it sayiing he forced her to help despose of the body
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« Reply #167 on: October 02, 2011, 01:24:54 PM »

Am I allowed to post something from a poster at WS, with url, of course?  There is a very enlightening and educated post, that really touched me in regards to this case and those in the possible same category as the Haliegh case, in Aleyiah's and others.   It is very thought provoking and so true.   If I can, do I need to snip, since it's from an educated poster, not a news organization, providing credit where its due?

Of course you are allowed, only WS forbids the links of other blogs and crime blogs. Soemthing which is insane when it comes to sharing of ideas and finding missing persons.
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« Reply #168 on: October 02, 2011, 03:50:44 PM »

Am I allowed to post something from a poster at WS, with url, of course?  There is a very enlightening and educated post, that really touched me in regards to this case and those in the possible same category as the Haliegh case, in Aleyiah's and others.   It is very thought provoking and so true.   If I can, do I need to snip, since it's from an educated poster, not a news organization, providing credit where its due?

Yes we are allowed to post comments/posts that are in other forums/blogs.  No you don't need to "snip" forum/blog posts but yes we always do want the link back.  I saw what you posted and that was fine.  Thanks Dihannah!
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« Reply #169 on: October 02, 2011, 03:53:06 PM »

3 Year Old Aliayah Lunsford Missing September 24, 2011 in Weston, WV

Posted October 2, 2011 by Scared Monkeys

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2011/10/02/3-year-old-aliayah-lunsford-missing-september-24-2011-in-weston-wv/
 
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« Reply #170 on: October 02, 2011, 04:50:01 PM »

Sorry I dont buy the part of supporting the family. due to look at Casey and a number of other children that went missing and ended up dead or worse not found at all. Look at Casey she had the support of her mom, dad and Lee in the beginning until she abused that support, Then you have Terri Horman Im sure Desiree would of been more then willing to of had her son. Theres so many I also dont buy economy is to blame.

MOO is each of us are responsible for our own action and I can bet if human rights would step the heck back and we start hangings, and firing squads on these murderers I bet there would be alot less killing. But have it in the middle of town so the public can see it and dont just do one do all who are on death row. stop giving them 10 to 20 yrs if they are guilty and are to be executed then go ahead and do it. We need to stop coddling prisoners make it he77 to be in prison or jail.

Good afternoon Monkeys--

Jazzy, I agree with you.  Well, I agree with your first paragraph.  The second paragraph describes the way things are done in Saudi Arabia and I don't believe you really meant it.  But if you did, you have a right to do so

What I agree with is the your comment about having family support.  And the examples you chose are good ones.  I am very puzzled by the WS poster's assertion, "Child abuse, including neglect, is very seldom intentional."  Once again, Casey Anthony.  Of course she intended to murder Caylee and I believe Terri Horman meant to do whatever she did with Kyron.  It would be difficult, IMO, to unintentionally kill a child and put the body in a suitcase.  Or to hold one's hand over a child's face until they are dead, newborn twins at that, and the recent case of putting a plastic bag over a child's head; Burying a child alive, as with Jessica Lunsford. When a child dies unintentionally, other than as a result of a medical reason, it is called an accident. I can see that neglect could be unintentional in some cases.  But there are many cases of mothers going without food so that her child or children could eat.  But there are cases whrere children are put into cages and starved to death. So even with neglect, it is IMO, most often intentional.

I, too, believe we are responsible for our own actions and we must face the consequences.  I also believe that in the vast majority of families. children are greatly loved and the instances where they are not, are the minority. But if one child is harmed or murdered, that is one child too many.  I also believe that most parents would give their own lives to save their children.  What I also believe, sadly, is that some people are just born evil and no matter the circumstances of their upbringing, money, cars, homes, education, and most importantly, parental love, make no difference. They are just bad seeds, IMO.
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« Reply #171 on: October 02, 2011, 04:50:42 PM »

I grew up in rural Missouri as I've stated here before.  Very poor, very rural area.  Some of the best parents I ever knew were very poor and lacking education.  They loved their children so much and were just amazing people, in general.  I'm sorry, I'm not buying that poor people don't know how to parent.
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« Reply #172 on: October 02, 2011, 05:13:53 PM »


Thanks for all of you great "monkeys" who volunteer your time and energy here helping to find the missing. You're hard work and dedication doesn't go unnoticed.!!  My heart breaks for little Aliayah, what a beautiful little girl she is.  Aliayah lives just a few hours from where I am living now. And yes the economy is bad here, and there are VERY poor people here, but there are also VERY rich people here , also!  So when I read HBDiva's post, I cried. She is a wise woman, and she speaks the truth. (I am taking a criminal ethics class at school and this case hit me first thing this morning, and I just can't stop reading about Aliayah's case)

A few things I want to add about this case-

When Lena Lunsford (i will never call her mom)  went driving around buying ciggies-LE believed her story because she was "caught on videotape".....psssssssssst...in most places in wv-there are HUGE SIGNS that you are bein videotaped. Lena -is smart enough to drive straight for those cameras to help HER story!!

The Morgantown attorney-who volunteered his services-whats up with that? ---Jose Baez syndrome? Come IN and explain the "accident"....oh NO --this country can't keep havin our little ones murdered by their parents and using -the "accident" and "incest" crap to get them off!  I am supposed to be interviewing  LE this week-but instead I think I will call this attorney and find out -why he thinks he should be the next Jose Baez!!

Two more things, then I will shuddup-i promise! Lena-never bothered to tell the people she spoke to about her little one being missing, and she certainly didnt bother askin the neighbor man about her either.  HUGE mistake on her part!  Also the community held a candlelight vigil and none of the family attended? WHY? ---i t makes me so sad Sad
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« Reply #173 on: October 02, 2011, 05:29:45 PM »

Such a shame that this baby hasn't been found yet.  I'm hoping that the older kids will be able to talk to LE and tell what they know.
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« Reply #174 on: October 02, 2011, 06:02:19 PM »

I seldom log in anymore, but I wanted to thank Dihannah for posting the thoughts of HBDIVA. IMO, she is correct in advocating a community approach to parenting. The idea that Casey Anthony was supported by her family must be balanced with the idea that the entire family was secretive with little interaction with family-oriented community connections. It is entirely possible that Caylee's disappearance could have been completely unknown to those outside the family had Cindy been a little quicker on the uptake. Caylee didn't attend daycare, she didn't attend Sunday School, she didn't play with kids in the neighborhood. Who was there to notice that she was gone, and who couldn't have been placated with Casey's lies? No one. Sad.

I especially liked the part of HBDIVA's thoughts where she states that community caring could take the form of taking a casserole to a new mom and offering to sit with the baby while the mom catches up on her sleep. Our society has lost much of those simple ways of offering care to others. I have recently moved to a community of folks who still believe that neighbors have a basic obligation to look out for each other. What a blessing.

Prayers for Aliayah.
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« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2011, 08:07:22 PM »

I grew up in rural Missouri as I've stated here before.  Very poor, very rural area.  Some of the best parents I ever knew were very poor and lacking education.  They loved their children so much and were just amazing people, in general.  I'm sorry, I'm not buying that poor people don't know how to parent.

I agree with you New Monkey.  If one is poor, it certainly doesn't follow that one doesn't kow how to parent.  Many poor people scrimp and save to be sure their children have the necessities.  Many of them work two or three jobs at minimum wage to save for college for their children, who may be the first in the family to even finish high school, much less college.  Personally, I think it is insulting to assume that poor people don't know how to parent.  In fact, IMO much of that posting from WS was elitist. 

And I still don't understand the statement, "Child abuse, including neglect, is very seldom intentional."  These abusers are what, sleepwalking? I find it ridiculous. 
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« Reply #176 on: October 02, 2011, 09:36:27 PM »

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« Reply #177 on: October 02, 2011, 10:02:42 PM »

I grew up in rural Missouri as I've stated here before.  Very poor, very rural area.  Some of the best parents I ever knew were very poor and lacking education.  They loved their children so much and were just amazing people, in general.  I'm sorry, I'm not buying that poor people don't know how to parent.

I agree with you New Monkey.  If one is poor, it certainly doesn't follow that one doesn't kow how to parent.  Many poor people scrimp and save to be sure their children have the necessities.  Many of them work two or three jobs at minimum wage to save for college for their children, who may be the first in the family to even finish high school, much less college.  Personally, I think it is insulting to assume that poor people don't know how to parent.  In fact, IMO much of that posting from WS was elitist. 

And I still don't understand the statement, "Child abuse, including neglect, is very seldom intentional."  These abusers are what, sleepwalking? I find it ridiculous. 

While I agree that poor does not always equal bad parent, it does seem to correlate.  But it is not cause and effect. Many of the low income people that I know are great parents - and when I was poor when my first was born (but made too much for public assistance) I was a good parent. The problem arises is that many of the people that are poor are that way because of choices - young motherhood without a father or not able or willing to do anything in school. So I understand that people make the assumption that poor people are bad parents. Add to that the fact that we do not hear the stories of the parents that are poor but do a great job with their kids and it just reenforces the stereotype.

Anyway, I do not make the automatic assumption but it seems like it is the way is.
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« Reply #178 on: October 02, 2011, 11:55:04 PM »

Could it be when life style choices that involve drugs, alcohol and illegal activities enter the equation that in low income family that put children at risk?

Janet
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« Reply #179 on: October 03, 2011, 06:54:32 AM »

Could it be when life style choices that involve drugs, alcohol and illegal activities enter the equation that in low income family that put children at risk?

Janet

I agree - it is the same choices that result many times in being poor that make them poor parents. Sad for the kids.
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