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« on: October 13, 2011, 08:57:29 AM »

Update on Doctor Conrad Murray`s Trial; Where Is Baby Lisa?

Aired October 12, 2011 - 19:00   ET


To go to Lisa Irwin's case:


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The infant`s mother is seen on this video buying baby supplies from the local market on the very day her child went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother, and another man walk into this grocery store, which is about a mile or so away from this neighborhood here. And they walked away, everything looks very calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the sweetest little girl I`ve ever seen. She`s always smiling. When you go up to her and you tickle her, she starts laughing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. She means everything to my boys, and we -- we need her home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is Baby Lisa? Police in Kansas City, Missouri, say the gorgeous 11-month-old baby girl -- what a beautiful child -- vanished without a trace last week, apparently snatched from her crib. Baby Lisa`s mom, Deborah Bradley, told cops she put her daughter to bed at about 10:30 on Monday night, October 3rd.

When the baby`s dad came home from work the following morning -- and he worked the overnight shift, so he comes back at about 4:00 in the morning -- he tells police the door is open, the lights are on, the front window is open. And he sees that the door to the baby`s room is open. He goes in there and investigates, the baby is gone.

Police have -- well they say they have no leads, they have no suspects, but they were very curious about this particular development. Hours before Baby Lisa disappeared, her mom, Deborah Bradley was seen at a grocery store with a man who is not Jeremy Irwin, Lisa`s father. This is surveillance video from the store. The mom, there she is, buying a box of wine with a male friend. She is also picking up baby wipes and baby food with this male friend. The video shows them right here checking out at the checkout counter, chatting with the store clerk.

So, this extraordinary video shows what the mother was doing just a few hours before the child was, according to her, last seen.

Straight out to Ed Lavandera who has obtained exclusively this video and also spoke exclusively with the clerk at the store -- quite a scoop, Ed. Congratulations on that. What have you learned?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it was really interesting because this kind of gives us a sense of what Deborah Bradley, the mother of Baby Lisa was doing about five and a half hours before she had told police that she put the baby to sleep last Monday night. She comes into the store with that friend, and the clerk tells us that that is someone that she had seen Deborah and her husband hang out with before. She had seen the three of them together, kind of mixing and matching. Definitely, we`ve gotten the sense that that is someone they know.

They spent about six minutes in the store. Everything seemed jovial at times. Actually if you take a close look at that video, as she`s walking out Deborah seems to have a big smile on her face. The clerk that we talked to said that they`ve had long conversations over -- she has worked there a couple years -- has seen them in and out of the store many times, sometimes with the kid, sometimes without.

And the one thing that struck me is that she had mentioned, she mentioned -- the clerk told me that over the years, especially during the time that Deborah was pregnant with Baby Lisa that both parents had talked about how happy they were to finally being able to raise a daughter and how much they were looking forward to that. This clerk had seen Baby Lisa on a number of occasions and talked about how beautiful she was and how friendly and how happy and jovial the baby was.

So it was interesting insight to some of the dynamics. She did tell us also Jane that she was interviewed by FBI agents on Saturday for about 30 minutes. And the questions that they asked her really focused heavily on Deborah. What was her state of mind? Did she seem nervous? Did she seem panicked? Did she ever mention anything that someone was angry at her? That sort of thing; those were the kind of questions that she told us that FBI agents were very much interesting in hearing the responses to -- her responses to.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I hear that you have some sound --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ed, I hear you have some sound that you`ve obtained. Tell us about that. Let`s hear that.

LAVANDERA: Yes. We can listen to little bit. We kind of talked to her about a number of things. I think the things that stood out the most to me were we asked her about her conversations with the FBI agents and what they wanted to know. And talked about what she told those FBI agents as to Deborah`s state of mind last Monday afternoon.


REBECCA GUERRERO, STORE CLERK: They pretty much asked me, you know, if she was depressed, you know, if she seemed depressed, how she acted around the baby, if she seemed stressed out. Pretty much questions that I would know, because she would talk to me a lot, you know.

LAVANDERA: And what did you tell them?

GUERRERO: I pretty much told them she never looked depressed around me. You know, she always seemed to have a smile on her face when her kids were around.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go out to Mike Brooks now and ask Mike, HLN law enforcement analyst, what is the significance of the FBI focusing in on this shopping spree where the mother buys wine out of a box, which I never even knew wine came in a box until yesterday --



VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- with this man. Yes. And now they`re talking to the checkout lady. What does it mean?

BROOKS: Well, the FBI agents, they are specialists in dealing with possible child abductions, possible child abductions. So they`re looking for specific clues when they`re talking to this woman, just like they probably did when they talked to Deborah Bradley.

But again, it`s all part of the investigation. You have to follow up on every lead, anyone she had contact with. You want to talk to them. I would want to talk to them and find out exactly state of mind. How many times you see it? Who is she with? How many times did you see her with this guy? Did you see her with her boyfriend and this guy?

All the questions that probably were asked by a lot of other people and probably they were asked by Eddie Lavandera.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s listen to what the store clerk told Ed Lavandera when he spoke to her exclusively and asked her if it was strange to see Deborah Bradley, the mom of the missing 11-month-old child, with another man buying wine?


GUERRERO: No, because they normally are around each other a lot. If it`s not her and him, it`s her fiancee and him and they`re just like really close friends.

LAVANDERA: With this Philip (ph) guy?


LAVANDERA: All right. So you had seen them together before?

GUERRERO: Yes, but they were not -- not just those two together, they would be with Jeremy as well.


GUERRERO: Like they were really close friends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s say this mother is not considered a suspect or a person of interest according to law enforcement. And we don`t want to condemn her for going and buying wine with a male friend. It could be a very innocent explanation for all of that, Alison Triessl.

ALISON TRIESSL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And actually I think it really bodes well for her that she bought baby wipes and food. Anybody that is going to kill a child isn`t going to stockpile food and wipes to only a few hours later kill the child. So I think that`s actually -- you know, actually helpful for whether or not she was involved.

Now, certainly things could have gone wrong later in the evening, but at that moment she had no intention of harming this child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would be very interested to know whether there was wine left over in the box of wine --

TRIESSL: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- or whether all the wine was consumed because part of the problem is she says that she went to sleep with one of the older children, a 6-year-old boy, and she did not hear apparently this intruder who broke in through a window allegedly and turned on all the lights, and then went into the baby`s room, took the baby and walked out the front door and she didn`t hear any of it.

Well, if you had been drinking some wine, you might be -- you might not wake up. You might be passed out.

Here is a cop trying to get into the window that the family believes the intruder entered.

And here is another thing the store clerk said about Deborah Bradley, the missing child`s mother`s demeanor that afternoon. Listen to this. It`s a clue maybe.


GUERRERO: She had a smile on her face. I mean like she always does when she comes in here. She loves her kids to death, you know. I always ask her how the kids are doing, you know. She tells me they`re great, you know.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here is the bizarre thing about this is that the police keep saying that this mother is not a suspects. Some of the relatives have been quoted as saying that they thought that she`s going to be arrested. They feel that maybe the police have to pin it on somebody and that somebody is Deborah Bradley.

They`ve kind of backtracked from that, Mike Brooks. But you get a sense that there`s a lot of focus on this mom even though friends say she was a wonderful mother, had absolutely no reason to harm her child. And yet it seems to linger because, for example, she herself said that cops told her she failed a polygraph, Mike.

BROOKS: Right. I mean you want to eliminate people closest to the little girl. And maybe the law enforcement, they`re not quite satisfied yet, Jane, with some of the answers they were getting. It could have been the polygraph. It could have been something from her boyfriend, the baby`s father. It could have been other things. But they`re still looking -- they searched a wooded area today. But still have they totally eliminated her? We have not heard that.

Law enforcement, they`re not giving up much information. And as a former investigator, you know, that`s a good thing. They shouldn`t be throwing things out there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen. We`re just getting started on this subject. We`re going to go back to Ed Lavandera who got an exclusive interview and obtained video of a store surveillance exclusively.

And we`re also going to take your calls. Where is Baby Lisa? Could a mystery man have played a role in her disappearance? Give me a holler, what are your theories? What are your questions? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.

Later we`re going to talk to the godfather of Michael Jackson`s three children. And remember, we`ve got more of Michael Jackson analysis on our blog. Is Dr. Conrad Murray`s defense team switching their strategy mid- trial?

Looks like they`re dropping their original theory of how Michael Jackson died. Find out what they may be trying to prove. Go to hlntv.com/MichaelJackson.



GUERRERO: She`s the sweetest little girl I`ve ever seen. She`s always smiling. When you go up to her and you tickle her, she starts laughing. She`s very -- she seems like she doesn`t have a problem with strangers.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, that woman is a store clerk, and she witnessed the mother of missing Baby Lisa several hours before the child was last seen going into a grocery store with a male friend and purchasing a box of wine and then leaving. And she also, the mother, purchased baby wipes and baby food which, of course, observers are saying, well, that sounds like a mother who is concerned about her child. If she were thinking of doing anything untoward with her child, why would she buy baby food and baby wipes?

Again, she`s not considered a suspect. This is a mystery. Nobody has any idea what happened to her child who was allegedly snatched, abducted from her bedroom, a child who just turned 11 months yesterday.

Gloria, Nevada, your question or thought from caller Gloria?

GLORIA, NEVADA (via telephone): Hi, Jane.


GLORIA: Yes, My question is where was the baby at the time she was at the store?


GLORIA: Who was taking care of the child while she was at the store?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a very good question. Ed Lavandera, you spoke exclusively to this store clerk. Meantime there`s the baby who was ten months old, there`s two older boys as part of this blended family. Who was watching the kids while she`s at the store?

LAVANDERA: We`re getting that question a lot. It was one of the first things that popped into my head as we were watching the video this afternoon speaking with the clerk. But she did say that it wasn`t out of the ordinary, sometimes she would show up with the children, sometimes she wouldn`t.

In my head, just kind of doing some math here -- we haven`t had a chance to ask the family that question. They`re not really taking questions anymore from us. But if the father got home around 4:00, let`s say he worked a four-hour shift that means that he would have gone to work maybe around 8:00, 7:00 at night. This was just before 5:00 in the afternoon.

So conceivably maybe he hadn`t left for work yet. The children could have been at home with him. That`s just guessing on my part. Just, you know, some logical guessing but we don`t know where the kids were at the time and who was watching them at the time. But they clearly weren`t with their mother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So again, more from your exclusive interview with the store clerk. You asked the store clerk if she thought Baby Lisa`s parents had anything to do with this precious little child`s disappearance.

Let`s listen to the answer she gave to Ed Lavandera.


GUERRERO: From my interaction, I really don`t think they have anything to do with this. I mean I really don`t. I mean I can`t -- you know, I can`t sit here and say that yes or no because I don`t know what is going through their minds. But I honestly think they have nothing to do with it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, there are no suspects according to police. What do you make of the fact that the mother reportedly said that the cops told her she failed the polygraph, but the cops are like, well, that`s what she`s saying, we`re not saying that?

BROOKS: Well, and they`re not going to say it. I can guarantee you that right now. Maybe she did. Some people react differently to a polygraph. And you know, I always say, Jane, a polygraph is only as good as the examiner who is giving it. So maybe there were some inconclusive answers that weren`t what we`d say, lies, if you will. So I`d have to take a look at the sheet itself to whether -- to say whether or not she actually failed it or some of the answers were inconclusive.

But I find it interesting that there`s now a private investigator involved in all of this, Jane, who apparently -- they`re not saying who is paying for him -- but apparently there`s some rich guy out there who paid for this private investigator, a retired NYPD cop who is retired on disability who is down there now and who is with the family, who is with the other family members and is apparently going to be the liaison, if you will, with the media now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right, a private security consultant says a wealthy family just came out of the blue and said we want to help find this 10-month-old child who just turned 11 months old yesterday.

Actually the private investigator is Bill Stanton; somebody that we`ve had on our show ISSUES a number of times. Very good private eye and he has a lot of gum shoe sense, so to speak.

Alison Triessl, what do you make of the mom saying she failed the polygraph, this trip to the store, the fact that the family has this private eye that`s going to speak for them?

TRIESSL: That`s bizarre. And as a defense attorney I`ve never had a wealthy financier come in and say I`m going to hire a private eye for you. The fact he`s speaking for the family is strange, but still I have to say there`s nothing really conclusive. And unfortunately it does happen that intruders come into homes. It does.

In terms of the grocery store, I just don`t think the behavior is that bizarre or suspicious.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, especially if the boyfriend -- he`s not the husband -- but the father of the missing child knows this guy, they`ve been seen all three of them together. It`s just a friend who happens to be male and they happen to be buying wine. I don`t think we should read anything into it.

But again, we want to analyze everything because we want to be part of trying to find Baby Lisa. Thanks, Ed Lavandera for bringing us your exclusive information that you obtained. And thank you fantastic panel.

  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 09:06:13 PM »

Transcript of: Missing baby’s parents: ‘We just need her back‘
October 6, 2011

ANN CURRY, co-host: But we begin this half-hour with the mysterious disappearance of 10-month-old Lisa Irwin . We're going to talk to her parents in just a moment. But first, NBC 's Peter Alexander is in Kansas City , Missouri with details. Hey Peter , good morning.

PETER ALEXANDER reporting: Ann , good morning to you. The mystery just keeps deepening here in Kansas City, Missouri. NBC News has learned that when Jeremy Irwin , Lisa Irwin 's father, returned home Monday night/Tuesday morning he found not just his daughter missing from his crib -- from her crib, he also found three cell phones were missing from the family 's home. Last night investigators scanned this area, they canvassed it, stopping every car that came through here looking for any evidence of their missing daughter . At the same time, Jeremy Irwin met with federal authorities providing the names of nine individuals that the family thought may have had something to do with their daughter 's abduction. But so far, no suspects and no strong leads. As investigators re-examined the Irwin family home, a tearful public plea for the distraught parents of 10-month-old baby, Lisa .

Mr. JEREMY IRWIN (Father of Missing 10-Month-Old Baby Girl): No questions asked. We just -- we just want to have her back home.

Ms. DEBORAH BRADLEY (Mother of Missing 10-Month-Old Baby Girl): We just want our baby back. Please bring her home.

ALEXANDER: Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin , mom holding onto her daughter 's favorite stuffed animal, begged whoever has Lisa to return her safely.

Ms. BRADLEY: Just drop her off anywhere. We don't care. Just somewhere safe where she can come home, please.

ALEXANDER: They shared with us these photos of Lisa , taken within the last few weeks. Lisa 's parents told police she was last seen sleeping in her crib late Monday, but when her dad got home from an overnight shift at 4:00 Tuesday morning, Lisa was gone.

Captain STEVE YOUNG (Kansas City, Missouri Police Department): The only thing that we know absolutely is that there should have been a 10-month-old in that house and there isn't, and we're doing everything we can to find that child.

ALEXANDER: With the Irwin family 's consent, investigators in sterile suits to avoid contaminating the scene again searched the home. One focal point, this window without a screen. But law enforcement officials appear baffled at who could have climbed into the home, walked down the hall, snatch the baby, and then slipped out. Late Wednesday, I spoke to Jeremy Irwin 's parents , baby Lisa 's grandparents.

Mr. RICK IRWIN (Missing Baby's Grandfather): She's a beautiful baby. She's full of life and laughter and love.

ALEXANDER: Then I asked a difficult question that haunts every missing child case. Is there any way in the world that your son or your daughter -in-law could have had anything to do with this?

Ms. MELANIE IRWIN (Missing Baby's Grandmother): Absolutely not. They're kind, loving, wonderful parents . And that baby is everything to them.

ALEXANDER: At times Wednesday, detectives were seen carrying away bags of potential evidence. Outside the home, police dogs hunted for clues.

Capt. YOUNG: The longer the time goes without getting a conclusion, the more difficult it becomes, but that doesn't mean that we're letting up.

ALEXANDER: For Lisa 's parents , every minute without their baby daughter brings more anguish.

Mr. J. IRWIN: Just ask you to keep her in your thoughts and prayers and help her bring her home.

ALEXANDER: And police say they are not ruling anything out, that everything is still on the table. The family is also now receiving support from the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children who say -- and now listen to this stat, since 1986 there have been 278 stranger abductions of infants. In all but 12 cases, those infants were returned home safely. Ann :

CURRY: All right. Peter Alexander , thank you so much for that. Well, clearly, this is a terribly emotional time for Lisa 's parents . Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin are now joining us. Good morning to both of you.

Mr. J. IRWIN: Good morning.

Ms. BRADLEY: Good morning.

CURRY: We're all so sorry to hear all of this. You just heard Peter report that there are no suspects and no strong leads. So what are police telling you about where your baby girl is?

Ms. BRADLEY: Nothing, nothing at all. We -- they say they have -- they have some tips from the tips hotline. They're looking and they're doing everything they can, but nothing.

CURRY: Have they told you what those tips might be, Jeremy ?

Mr. J. IRWIN: No, they haven't given us any information. They're -- I think they're too busy following up leads and working on things so we don't know a whole lot. Just hoping that we get her back soon.

CURRY: Have they been questioning you about who you may know, who from your past, if there's anyone in your wider circle, your community, who would want to take your little girl ? Have they been asking you those questions?

Mr. J. IRWIN: Yeah.


Mr. J. IRWIN: They've been asking us nonstop. We've been trying to think of anything we can that can help. So far, not a whole lot.

CURRY: And I know the detectives have been at your home and they've taken away bags of what I understand are considered evidence. Do you know what they're looking for, what they took from your home?

Ms. BRADLEY: No. We don't have any idea.

CURRY: You know, you heard in the story that we just ran that, you know, in addition to the pain of missing your daughter , you're also being asked by police some tough questions because in their effort they sort of need to leave no stone unturned. So what do you have to say about their effort to even question you about whether you know something about your daughter 's disappearance? Jeremy , do you want to take that question?

Mr. J. IRWIN: They -- we were down at the police station for most of the day the other day and just going over everything and making sure that we've got all the information that we have and given them everything we can time and time again . So hopefully something can bring her home.

CURRY: Do you want to say anything about this question that they're asking even you about whether you had anything to do with you daughter 's disappearance?

Mr. J. IRWIN: No. I mean, obviously we don't -- we don't know where she is or who took her. We just need her back.

CURRY: Well, to that end, Deborah , let me ask you about that. What would you like to say to whoever may have your daughter , if that person is watching today?

Ms. BRADLEY: We're a close family and my boys miss her. Me and her father miss her. Everybody loves her. We have a good family , and she needs to be with us. Please, please bring her home. Drop her off anywhere safe, a fire department , a church, a police station . Just bring her somewhere safe. No questions asked. And we just want our daughter back. We'll do anything to get her.

CURRY: Well, she's a beautiful, beautiful girl . We all hope you get her back and we want to tell people if they want to help they should call the police department in Kansas City, Missouri. Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin , thank you so much . Our best to you.

  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 12:12:22 AM »

Transcription of Judge Jeanine's interview with Lisa's parents

Debbi: “Me and my neighbor were out front talking and the boys were and Maria – she has a  4-year-old daughter – was in the bedroom with them and they have a TV in there and bunk beds and stuff, and they were watching some sort of fairy tale movie and um, I mean everything was, everything was pretty normal. I mean Jeremy never works nights and never works overnight certainly so …”

Judge Jeanine: “So this is the first time you worked an overnight?”

Jeremy: “Yeah, this is the first time I’ve ever not been home at night, so …”

Judge Jeanine: “But that night, who went to bed first, Debbie?”

Debbi: “Um, Lisa. And then I put the boys to bed and I, I, I went to sleep.”

Judge Jeanine: “The neighbor was gone when you went to sleep?”

Debbi: “Yeah.”

Judge Jeanine: “And you think that was about 10:30?”

Debbi: “Yeah.”

Judge Jeanine: “Were the lights on or off when you went to bed?”

Debbi: “I turned them off.”

Judge Jeanine: “OK, was the front door locked or unlocked?”

Debbi: “I don’t remember. Typically I lock it. Um, I mean I left the computer room window open and …”

Judge Jeanine: “So the computer room is in the front of the house?”

Jeremy: “Yeah, that’s right.”

Debbi breaks down and weeps, hugging Jeremy.

Judge Jeanine: “I can’t imagine the pain you’re going through. Was there a screen on the computer room window?”

Debbie: “Yeah.”

Jeremy: “Yeah.”

Debbi: “And, um, when he came in it was, and he tried to shut the window because we, we, almost never, except for maybe our bedroom which is really far off the ground and maybe twice or every once in a while we’ll leave the boy’s window cracked, um, for them so they don’t get hot in the summer. But he knew that, you know, I’m sure there’s been a couple of times we’ve left it open but it’s not enough to when you walk by it’s a normal thing at 4 o’clock in the morning.”

Judge Jeanine: “What do you mean when you said ‘he knew’?”

Debbi: “Whenever he came in from work, I mean he’s – he came in …”

Judge Jeanine: “What time do you normally come home, Jeremy?”

Jeremy: “About 5 in the evening.”

Judge Jeanine: “The evening?”

Jeremy: “Yeah.”

Judge Jeanine: “But this night you were the last one to go to bed, you turn all the lights out, there was a screen in the window but the window was open?”

Debbi: “Yeah.”

Judge Jeanine: “OK, what’s the next thing that you remember?”

Debbi: “Him coming in the bedroom, um, I didn’t know what time it was until he later on had said it because I hadn’t checked but he came in and said, um, you know, ‘why are all the lights on?’ um, you know, ‘why is the screen popped out of the window. Part of, a quarter of it was popped out or something and um, I was, you know, I got up, I was ‘I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know what you’re talking about’ …

And um, my son was sleeping with me and um, sometimes, you know, I (inaudible) – my kids have always, when they were younger, little, slept in bed with me so I like to do that when I can. And, um, he asked why Michael was there and I was like, ‘you know, he’s just, he’s sleeping next to me’ and, um, I guess with everything he was saying out loud to me, you know, he thought ‘wait a minute, you know, Lisa’s bedroom door’s open’ and we always close it when she goes to sleep at night. And he ran back and checked and he said, he came in the room and said ‘Where’s Lisa, where’s she at?’ And I said ‘She’s, she’s in her crib. What are you, you know, and he says she’s not there and we just got up and screaming for her and looking everywhere and she wasn’t there.”

Judge Jeanine: “She’s 10 months old, Lisa’s 10 months old.”

Debbi said: “She’s almost 11 months old the 11th. Her birthday is next month.   

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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 08:04:38 AM »

Transcript of Joy Behar.


MARSHALL: Yes, where are the caretakers? Where is the family?

HILL: Right.

MARSHALL: Where are the grandparents during this time? We saw with Casey and George -- Cindy and George Anthony, that they preserved the child`s room hoping that the child would come home. This family has dismantled the child`s room. And I want to make a comment about the children. She said it was grown-up time.

We know that from studies of adult children of alcoholics that when children are around an adult who drinks too much, it`s enormously overwhelming and anxiety-producing for them and they grow into adults who take inordinate responsibility for everybody around them. They are control freaks. They can`t thrust anything that`s not under their control. And it`s a massive defense against the helplessness of childhood.

And I don`t think we can compare a mother who has a normal progression of drinking too much with this mom who clearly was binge drinking with benzodiazepines which caused a major black-out.

HILL: Bethany and Rachael, we have got to take a break. But you know, if you think that this is bad, you are going to -- not even believe your eyes, video that is hard to even understand. That`s coming up after this.

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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 11:19:20 PM »


PINSKY: So Mark and Lauren, I want to turn to you guys with that little theory. Do you hear what they`re saying, that they`re starting to look - it seems to me that they`re - they`re reaching.

Now, I want to - I want to send out something that I to you guys propose to, my attorneys here, see if it makes any difference to you at all. Apparently - if you remember, there was a neighbor with her all the way until she went to bed, and the neighbor actually was reporting when the lights went off in the house and whatnot. And I wondered - I kept asking, who`s this neighbor person?

As I asked around, I discovered that the neighbor - this - I can`t confirm this, but I - I was - from a source, told me that the neighbor`s estranged from her husband, and the husband was not allowed home that night and that there was some acrimony with the neighbors.

Does that shed some light in some direction that you guys think police should be following? I mean, Mark, you`ve already - you`ve already sentenced the mom. Don`t you think they should be looking nearby, since this was a -

EIGLARSH: No. No, no, no.

PINSKY: This was somebody who broke in from the outside, the - the light - the lights were found on in the house. Don`t you think that they`d be following leads like this?

EIGLARSH: Let me make one thing terribly clear - I haven`t convicted her at all, and I hope, quite frankly, I hope that her story is true, and I`ll tell you why. Because, statistically, it`s less than a fraction of one percent of those who report their child missing that actually goes missing by a stranger like she`s alleging. So, statistically, it doesn`t look likely that her story is true.

But, if the child does go missing by a stranger, they usually get the child back. That`s what the statistics are showing, so I hope that her story is true.

I`m not convicting her. What I`m saying right now is there isn`t proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If this went to court, as we`ve learned with Casey Anthony, we don`t know how this happened. One way or the other, we don`t know.

So this is clearly reasonable doubt, and that`s why I hope investigators are taking their time.

PINSKY: And I - I agree - I agree with you, Mark. We - we`ve become so accustomed to seeing a - somebody, a mom - not only that, but somebody who`s accused of something egregious lying and lying, we`ve almost come to expect that.


PINSKY: And so, Lauren, given that Mark is condemning this woman, Lauren, do you have any opinion about the - about this case?

LAKE: Poor Mark. We`re ganging up on you tonight, Mark.

No, but Dr. Drew, you really hit home with something that`s been bugging me. This whole drinking with the neighbor on the stoop, and the neighbor knowing what time the lights went off, and I`m thinking to myself, wow, a neighbor could also know the floor plan to your house. And a neighbor could also potentially get past dogs barking because the dogs would be familiar with the neighbor.

And I`m not saying I`m accusing the neighbor. What I`m saying is that there are other people in the vicinity that I think the police should also look at, in addition to the parents.

Look, first and foremost, we`re trying to find this baby. You know -

PINSKY: That`s right.

LAKE: -- no one is safe from -

PINSKY: And, by the way, you`re - you`re absolutely right. There`s a baby here. And Mark, again, I want to thank you for the statistics. Obviously, I`m just busting your chops a little bit.

Jim, last word from you. Ive got about 30 seconds left.

SPELLMAN: Yes, I think that neighbor is really essential. We don`t know exactly which neighbor it is, but the very next house next door, we know police have been searching in there. They took dogs in there just a - a few days ago and came out with some bags. We understand it`s not evidence but material that the search dogs used when they go to another location.

I think that neighbor is very essential, and the two boys that were also in the home with her, they wouldn`t let them be interviewed either by police. They might know the most of anybody if the mom really was that drunk.

PINSKY: Interesting.

Again, Mark, thank you for that data about it - if it being somebody that is not known to them being very unlikely and their child being found. It doesn`t add up to that. But, again, thank you to my panel. Thank you, Jim; thank you Mark; and thank you, Lauren.

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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 02:56:44 PM »


Aired November 2, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, the heartland. A 10- month-old baby sleeping in her own crib just feet away from her mom goes missing without a trace, front door unlocked, front window open, every cell phone gone. Grainy surveillance video emerges, Mommy shopping just before baby vanishes, brings home baby food and a big box of wine!

Mommy, knocked out drunk when baby goes missing, changes her story as to the last time she even sees her own baby. Mommy and Daddy still refusing to sit down for interviews with cops, even their boys, ages 5 and 7. But they find time to take the boys trick-or-treating all for TV cameras, but they can`t talk to cops?

Bombshell tonight: A new timeline surfaces as we uncover two separate neighbors that see baby Lisa alive and in her crib at 4:30 PM, then at 6:30 PM. Tonight, we learn Daddy returns from the night shift to find his baby girl gone, but then runs to bang on a neighbor`s door to find the baby. Why a neighbor`s door? And that`s all before he even calls 911.

And tonight, just how much wine did Mommy drink? A lot more than we know the very night the baby disappears. As Mommy`s own brother interrogated by police, footprints take center stage in the investigation. Reports emerging about Mommy`s secret past life.

Tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find baby Lisa. That`s the ultimate goal.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now her child is missing.

GRACE: Allegedly stolen out of her own crib just feet away from her own mother.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER: Give her her bottle, made sure her binky was in her crib in case she needed it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not something you can talk your way out of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last time Lisa was reported seen was around 6:30 by the neighbor`s young daughter. Debbie bought, among other things, a box of wine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that she was passed out drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they brought in the brother of Deborah Bradley for an interview that police say lasted about two hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that she takes anti-anxiety drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gas station where the surveillance video shows a man walking in this direction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Holding a baby, a mystery man holding a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would somebody get out of the house with baby Lisa?

BRADLEY: No. No. It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie stayed at the house and drank wine all evening with her neighbor.

BRADLEY: I`m terrified! But I`m trying to be hopeful!


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A new timeline surfaces. We discover two separate neighbors see baby Lisa alive in her crib, 4:30, then 6:30 PM the night she goes missing.

Tonight, we find out Daddy comes home from the night shift to find the baby gone, but then inexplicably runs to a neighbor`s door, banging on the door, to find his baby next door before calling 911?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents -- will they sit down? Are they cooperating? Will they cooperate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just asked a whole bunch of questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First baby Lisa`s mom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told them everything that I knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then baby Lisa`s dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody`s got her somewhere.

GRACE: If they`re looking for the baby, the first thing they should do is cooperate with police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But every day, police tell us they need to talk to the family to advance this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their involvement in this investigation is critical.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Camera crews following around trick-or-treating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What really happened the night this little girl disappeared from her crib in the middle of the night?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would somebody get out of the house with baby Lisa?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole world is asking her, Tell us what happened. Tell us what happened.

BRADLEY: Maybe somebody wanted a baby and she -- I don`t (INAUDIBLE)


GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent, standing by at the Irwin home, Jim Spellman. Jim, tell me the latest.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I`ve just finished speaking for the first time with the husband of the next-door neighbor. This is the woman that Deborah Bradley spent the evening drinking with.

Now, we know that Jeremy Irwin was out of the house. We now know that this gentleman, the husband of the next-door neighbor, was also gone. They began a trial separation that very day, Nancy. He left the house at 5:00 o`clock, not sure even where he was going to spend the night, ended up crashing on a friend`s sofa.

So that puts two people that normally are in those pair of houses away from those houses the night baby Lisa disappeared, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on, Jim Spellman! You`re telling me the neighbor leaves his home that night that baby Lisa goes missing, so he`s not in the home. Is that the same home Daddy goes and bangs on the door when he finds out the baby`s gone?

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy.

GRACE: Why did he go over there, Jim Spellman? Why would he think that his baby is -- is it directly next door?

SPELLMAN: It`s directly next door. They almost share a driveway. We know that the woman next door occasionally baby-sat and we know that she was with her that night. So maybe he ran over just to see if somehow she had taken the baby that night, if Deborah was drinking. But we don`t know why he went there before he dialed 911.

I do have to add quickly, Nancy, that this man, the husband and next- door neighbor -- police tell us that they`ve interviewed him and moved on and they don`t feel that is an active suspect in this.

GRACE: You know, Jim Spellman, frankly, I don`t know what to believe right now because I`m also learning -- you know, we focused briefly on a neighborhood handyman that apparently lives in some type of a commune. We thought he was homeless, but he apparently lives with a group of people in a home.

Now I`m learning that that mystery phone call the night baby Lisa goes missing -- Mommy says all her cell phones had been stolen from the home, that she cannot make an outgoing phone call because she didn`t pay the phone bill on the cell phone. We learn a phone call was made that night. And now we know it was made at 8:30 PM. Baby Lisa seen at 6:30. The phone call goes out at 8:30 to the handyman`s ex-girlfriend.

Now, that sounds like to me the handyman made the phone call. Why would Deborah Bradley, the mother, make the phone call?

SPELLMAN: Right. Well, we don`t know who made the phone call. As of that big search two weeks ago, in that affidavit, it says law enforcement still had not found those three phones. But it certainly places that handyman into this investigation. I mean, we don`t know that he had anything to do with anything, but he is part of that investigation because of that phone call to Megan Wright...

GRACE: Well, you`re...

SPELLMAN: ... his ex-girlfriend.

GRACE: ... darn right he is, Jim Spellman, because these cell phones, apparently, reportedly stolen from the home at the same time the baby`s kidnapped, but then that phone is used to call that guy`s girlfriend at 8:30 that night, all right?

So does that mean that all of this went down before 8:30, between 6:30 and 8:30 that night? I mean, the implications are endless as to what`s going on here. So I don`t -- and now I learn that the handyman has been taken into federal custody or taken into custody on a federal burglary unrelated to this.

Now, to Steve Helling, staff writer, "People" magazine. Steve, you and I have -- I`ve tried and you`ve covered so many criminal cases. When you want to crack somebody -- think about Misty Croslin, all right? Think about that case. She`s in jail. She`s behind bars on drug charges, when what they really want to know is what happened to Hailey, the little girl.

So now this homeless guy has been taken into custody on an alleged burglary, but what cops really want to know is where`s baby Lisa. Don`t you see that, Steve Helling?

STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" (via telephone): Well, I do see that -- that -- you know, police do anything that they can do to get to the truth. And whether or not that`s the reason why they have him behind bars right now, who knows.

But I will say this one thing. The police have repeatedly said that this gentleman is not a suspect. So you know, we have to judge what they`re saying as opposed to what they`re doing.

GRACE: Steve Helling...


GRACE: ... they say everybody`s not a suspect! Nobody`s a suspect, all right, according to the police.

Out to Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Weigh in, Matt. What do you know?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK. Well, what we know is we know more about this phone call. It was a 50-second phone call between 8:00 and 8:30 that night. Now, Megan Wright told us that what happened was, is that there are eight people that are living in the home with her, and that phone is shared among those people. She was actually not the one who answered the phone.

Now, when she actually retrieved the phone a few hours later, the call log was deleted from the phone. So we have no way of knowing of who actually placed that call. But we are sure that cops are pinging the phone, working to find out what the location was.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. I want to go out to Virginia in Florida. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to suggest that somebody -- I wonder if they have looked at the fact that these people seen the little baby in the man`s arms, if could it have between the missing little dog the neighbor lost just about the same time that the little baby was lost. The varying stories...

GRACE: OK. Well, as a matter of fact, Virginia in Florida, with me right now, joining us exclusively tonight is Mike Thompson. He`s joining us. And he says that he saw the man carrying the baby wearing only the diaper at 4:00 AM.

Mike, thank you for being with us.

MIKE THOMPSON, SAW MAN CARRYING BABY (via telephone): Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Mike, could you describe for me what you observed the night baby Lisa goes missing?

THOMPSON: Yes. I`d just got off work, and I was going down the highway. And I exited on 48th Street. I go over to see my cousin after work on Tuesday mornings. And I was going down 48th Street, and I see a man carrying a baby about 30, 40 foot up one street.

GRACE: And what did the baby have on?

THOMPSON: A diaper and a T-shirt.

GRACE: Diaper and a T-shirt.

THOMPSON: And he was wearing a short-sleeved shirt. Huh?

GRACE: OK, so the baby`s wearing diapers and a T-shirt. And what did the man look like?

THOMPSON: Oh, about 5-7, 5-8, kind of salt-and-pepper hair. Yes. He`s pretty well built. He had a T-shirt on and white pants.

GRACE: Mike Thompson joining us, claims he sees the baby being carried by a man around 4:00 AM when baby Lisa goes missing. Mike Thompson, is it true that you have identified a man in a photo line-up?

THOMPSON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Repeat?

THOMPSON: Huh? Yes, I...

GRACE: Have you identified a man in a photo line-up?

THOMPSON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Do you know who the man is?

THOMPSON: No, I don`t. It`s the man I seen that night, I`m sure.

GRACE: And let me go to Matt Zarrell. Do we know who the man is in the photo line-up that Thompson identified?

ZARRELL: We do believe it`s a resident in the area. But right now, his name has not been publicized and we`re not releasing the name at the moment, Nancy.

GRACE: The tip line, 816-474-8477. Joining me tonight, the man who sees a man carrying a baby at 4:00 AM the night baby Lisa goes missing. This as we learn Mommy may have imbibed much more than we believe originally. And the timeline changes. Mommy`s brother taken in for interrogation as the parents refuse to sit down with cops. Tip line, 816- 474-8477. Where is this baby?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it look like anything was disturbed in her room? I mean, did anything look out of place other than her not being there?

BRADLEY: No. No. It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, if she was to have been taken out of the house at night -- this is almost pitch-black.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a fascinating cast of characters here. We have the mother and the father of the missing child.

BRADLEY: We`re running around the house and we`re screaming for her!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was taken from our home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All hell breaks loose.

BRADLEY: You know, maybe somebody wanted a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to believe that there`s not a crazy person out there who`s taking babies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The neighbor who lives in this white house saw a man walking up this hill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was wearing, like, a dark-colored pants and what we believe was a T-shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He turned and looked at me, and I could tell he had a baby with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You also want to believe the mom, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family has cooperated.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In every way they could possibly cooperate.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why won`t you talk to us?

BRADLEY: Because we`re grieving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish that somebody would figure out what happened to that baby one way or another.


GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. I want to back out to Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent joining us there at the Irwin home. We`re also learning about an alleged secret life that the mom had. What do we know?

SPELLMAN: Well, "The National Enquirer" is reporting on some extramarital affairs she had with her husband, who she`s still married to, who`s in the service. This is when they lived elsewhere.

Nancy, I just want to -- I just want to mention something. Mike Thompson`s sighting of this man at 4:00 AM -- I`ve been working on this for the last few days, and I`ve met this man, who we`re not naming. But I want to tell you, I`ve just discovered in that last break, we can now report that he has denied to me -- that man that Mike Thompson saw has denied to me that he was there at that time. He says it`s not him. And I know it`s the same person. I showed a photograph to Mike Thompson. So I just want to put it out there that that man denies that it`s him.

GRACE: Is it true, Jim Spellman, that cops have spoken to the guy and have ruled him out?

SPELLMAN: They have spoken to him, yes, and they say -- this is the common language they use, that they have spoken to the person, he answered their questions, and they`ve moved on. They won`t say that they`ve cleared anyone. You know, "cleared" doesn`t really mean anything. They won`t say that. They keep open the avenue to always come back. But they have told us that, yes -- and in fact, they -- about that, that particular individual in relation to that sighting.

GRACE: And you know, it may be something as simple as that particular guy has an air-tight alibi at 4:00 AM. So it may not have been him, but somebody that looks like him. There are a lot of different -- there are a lot of moving parts in this story right now that police had not been able to sort out.

I want to go back to Mike Thompson, everyone, joining us exclusively tonight. Thompson sees a man carrying a baby around 4:00 AM, the baby only wearing a diaper and a T-shirt, the night baby Lisa goes missing.

Mike Thompson, I know it took you around two weeks to come forward, but you can explain that. Explain.

THOMPSON: Yes, a week. See, I work in Kansas City. I live 90 miles from there. And I didn`t know anything about this until the next day, I see it on the news that there was a baby kidnapped in Kansas City. And I just thought and thought and thought, and then -- I told my wife when I got home that morning that I`d seen a guy carrying a baby and what an idiot he was (INAUDIBLE) cold (INAUDIBLE)

And I just kept thinking about it and thinking about it. And I asked my cousin when I went back over there the next week if I ha told him about it. Oh, you better call the police. So he called police, and I told them what I`d seen.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is the clue that will unlock what happened here to this baby?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police here tell us they still need to interview the parents and the half-brothers of baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why won`t you talk to us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main priority, our number one goal is to find this child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thus far, the family has refused for about the last three weeks to consent to those interviews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we absolutely believe that the parents` involvement in the investigation is critical to help make that happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their other local attorney, Cyndy Short (ph), was drummed off of the case over conflicts about whether or not the family should speak to the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our door is open. It has always been open.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is baby Lisa?


GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. To Matt Zarrell. What`s all this business about the mommy`s secret life?

ZARRELL: Yes, "The National Enquirer" is reporting that while Deborah Bradley was stationed at Fort Bragg with her Army husband, Sean Bradley, she allegedly tried have an affair with her next-door neighbor`s husband.

Now, the husband`s wife talked to "The National Enquirer" and claims that Deborah Bradley went over to the house while she was at work and would not leave the house. And when the husband said, I`m going to go to bed, you need to leave, Deborah Bradley said, No, I`m not going to leave. And that`s when she allegedly started to take her clothes off. The husband immediately said, No, no, no, I don`t want anything to do with this, and kicked her out of the house.

But the friend says that Deborah Bradley is a chronic liar and claims that you can`t believe what you see on TV.

GRACE: OK, can you tell me something, Matt Zarrell? Put him up! What does that have to do with this?

ZARRELL: Well, I think the point that "National Enquirer" is trying to make, Nancy, is that if Deborah Bradley is lying about her past and she has a history of lying, why are we to believe her now, especially with reports that she allegedly failed a polygraph test? So based on that, I think it changes the entire timeline of what we`re talking about because we can`t assume that Bradley is telling the truth about what happened that night.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, victims` rights advocate, host of "We the People," Gloria Allred in LA, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Lauren Lake, defense attorney, New York.

Gloria, what do you make of the developments?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, I think the fact that she may have tried to have a sexual relationship with someone else`s husband is certainly not conclusive on the issue of whether or not she had anything to do with the disappearance of her baby.

GRACE: Yes. I don`t think that has anything at all to do with it. What I`m more concerned, about possible lies, if there are any, that night, the night baby Lisa goes missing. I agree with you, Gloria Allred.

To you, Peter Odom. Also disturbing that Mommy and Daddy will not let the 5-year-old and 7-year-old sit down and talk to cops. Not even cops, it`s a forensic specialist trained in interviewing children. But they`ll parade them trick-or-treating for cameras, for national TV. So you can put them on national TV, but you can`t talk to cops about the baby girl going missing?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, certainly, you`re not going equate taking your kids trick-or-treating to sitting them down in an interrogation room with, you know, a police...

GRACE: Not an interrogation room.

ODOM: ... a police-directed interrogation because they`re not the same thing.

GRACE: It`s a special forensic therapist. And you know what, Lauren Lake? I wouldn`t be surprised if they don`t convene a grand jury...



UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New on the scene here in Kansas City.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: The brother of the mother of the missing child.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who was with Debbie the night before Lisa disappeared?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This brother was seen on surveillance camera tape with Deborah Bradley.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": In the store with her when the wine was bought.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Debbie stayed at the house and drank wine all evening with her neighbor.

SPELLMAN: Still need to interview the the parents and the half brothers of baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are you talking to?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Refusing to allow the cops to interview the children even as they reportedly allowed "Good Morning America" to follow the kids trick or treating.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Another sessions with forensic interviewers was scheduled but was postponed.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police begging for information and they`re getting cancellation.

BRADLEY: I told them everything that I knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They live here. It`s their child. Who knows more.


NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Gloria Allred, Peter Odom, Lauren Lake.

Mommy and daddy take the 5-year-old and the 8-year-old boy trick or treating with cameras. With cameras watching them. But they will not allow a special trained child forensic expert talk to the boys.

Why, Lauren Lake?

LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, Nancy, I think at some point they are going to let the boys sit down. But I think these parents, along with their lawyers, are deciding they`re going to go offense on this case. At some point they have to get off of this aggressive accusatory tone that the police has directed toward them, and they don`t want that directed towards their kids. I think that`s why they held them back and at some point they will let them talk.

GRACE: And when will that be?

LAKE: Well, when they get good and ready, and when their lawyer lets the police know that they`re ready. They`re lawyered up now and their lawyer will do the job.

GRACE: Well said, Lauren Lake. When they get good and ready --

LAKE: Yes.

GRACE: -- as their baby has been abducted and possibly dead --- when they feel like it.

LAKE: No, no, no.

GRACE: OK. Gloria Allred --

LAKE: When it`s appropriate.

GRACE: I`ll tell you what`s going to happen.

LAKE: When it`s appropriate.

GRACE: All right, Lauren. Thanks.

Gloria Allred, this is what the cops can do. They can go to the DA and convene a grand jury. Grand juries are not only charging tools for the state they are also investigative. So they can get an investigative grand jury to issue a subpoena to a 5-year-old and an 8-year-old, and let them come into a grand jury and tell a grand jury what happened that night. And if the parents don`t go ahead and cooperate with police that`s just what`s going to happen.

What do you think, Gloria?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: I think that`s exactly what should happen, Nancy, because the longer it takes before these children are, in fact, questioned. And I say questioned, not interrogated, questioned by a specialist who is used to dealing with children, and will be sensitive to their needs, the longer it takes the more their memory may be distorted, may be unreliable.

I don`t know if the parents have interrogated their own children. Have infected, contaminated their memory of what went on that night. I don`t know. But the longer it takes for this to happen the less reliable the answers are going to be.

GRACE: Well, I know this much. That the mommy says she has never once talked about baby Lisa disappearing with the two little boys which I think, Caryn Stark, psychologist is absolutely ridiculous because the first thing John David and Lucy say in the morning is, where`s the other one. Where`s Lucy? Where`s John David? If they don`t see them.

So you know this 5-year-old and 8-year-old have been saying, where is baby Lisa? Where is she -- I mean obviously the parents have talked to them about it.

So Caryn Stark, let`s clear it up. The misconception that Peter Odom, defense attorney, has just put out there about what this interrogation of the 5- and 8-year-old would be. You`re the shrink. Explain how it goes down.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: It goes down as play, Nancy. It goes down as fantasy. They don`t get interrogated. They get played with and through the play they get to be asked questions. They are handled very, very carefully.

And I agree with Gloria that it`s going to get contaminated the longer that anybody waits to interview them because they start to take other versions of the story. Children are very smart. Like you said about your children. They know that this baby is gone. They are not idiots.

And no one is explaining anything to them. And they need to. They need to be told. It`s much more scary to not be told something than to be living out there and not understand what happened, and no one is talking about it.

And here`s something else I don`t understand. They went trick or treating and they followed them with cameras? Why? What was -- why did the parents think that`s not traumatic?

GRACE: You know, I`m going to go back to Peter Odom.

And, peter, if possible I would like you to answer with yes-nos.


GRACE: Peter, you were for many years --


PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m going to be cross-examined, won`t I.

GRACE: -- a felony prosecutor, were you not?

ODOM: I was.

GRACE: OK. So that`s a yes. Did you ever prosecute any child molestation case?

ODOM: Many. Hundreds actually.

GRACE: At any time did any of your child molestation victims be interviewed by, for instance, a therapist or a counselor as to the molestation?

ODOM: Yes. And when they were they tried to do it --

GRACE: OK, thank you, Peter.

ODOM: I`m being restricted to yes or no. Sorry.

GRACE: But you -- thanks. So what you`re arguing today is that these boys should not be questioned by a therapist that is trained specifically in questioning children and in a non-interrogation-type atmosphere, but you had it happen on your own cases, correct?

ODOM: Incorrect. Incorrect. What I`m arguing, Nancy, is that the police missed the boat on interviewing these children weeks ago.

GRACE: That`s how we should do it.

ODOM: Anything they say now is going to be so unreliable that it`s going to be unusable.

GRACE: That`s not even remotely what you said before but I give you credit for doing the back stroke beautifully.

Out to the lines. Bridgette in Illinois. Hi, Bridgette, what`s your question?

BRIDGETTE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering if anybody has been able to confirm whether Philip, Debbie`s brother, returned back to her home that night later in the evening?

GRACE: I do know that he`s undergone hours of police interrogation. We`re talking about mommy`s brother.

Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, joining us at the Irwin home, what do you know?

SPELLMAN: That began spreading yesterday after a little bit of a reporting I think after his interview with the police some sort of leaked out reports that he confirmed to police -- this is in local media -- that she was really drunk.

People have taken that to mean he came back -- her brother came back at some point to acquire that information. When I ran this by the police they said it was the first time they`d heard of it, my asking him about it and they didn`t know anything about him returning. So that`s all I can report on that, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now is an exclusive guest, Mary Hurt. This is baby Lisa`s neighbor. Police have checked her property for footprints. Footprints. Taking such a stage in this investigation.

Mary Hurt, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Miss Hurt, exactly where is your home in relation to the Bradleys?

HURT: They are probably about five houses that separate us and the corner. I kind of go along the path towards the Brighton town homes where the dumpster fire was.

GRACE: So that`s five doors down. Now you got somehow pulled into this whole thing because another neighbor believes they saw a male the night baby Lisa goes missing carrying a baby, turning into your property. Is that correct?

HURT: Yes. They turned onto our property and it`s the lead to the gym that they went through our neighbor`s back yard, because our gate is locked to our fence and the neighbor`s is open.

GRACE: Now, on the night baby Lisa disappears, did you see anything?

HURT: I didn`t. The only thing out of the ordinary was that our neighbor`s sprinklers were still on in the late hours at around 9:30. And at 11:00 they were turned off. So some time during their -- there hasn`t been Jersey or someone come back and turned them off which was out of the ordinary.

GRACE: Now police -- yes. Police came to your location. They interviewed you. Did they take footprints?

HURT: They searched our house. They searched the backyard and they took footprint molds out of our neighbor`s backyard right by that gate where there`s kind of a semi grassy dirty dirt filled area where they could get footprints off of.

GRACE: Is that near the playground, the children`s area?

HURT: The children`s area as far as -- it`s not -- it`s not close to any kind of play equipment. My kids` play equipment is close to it.


HURT: Yes.

GRACE: I see. I see what you`re talking about.

HURT: Separate this.

GRACE: So they took footprints there. Now police interviewed you. What did they ask you?

HURT: They asked if we had seen anything that was unusual, out of place, even, you know, days before this leading up to it, if there was anybody in the neighborhood that wasn`t usually there, anybody that we know that may have been connected with that family at all.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does it look like anything was disturbed in her room? I mean did anything look out of place other than her not being there?


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An emotional prayer vigil for the missing child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re hoping for the best results.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She went to bed and now her child is missing.

SPELLMAN: All police will say is this is an active ongoing investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a positive development. When law enforcement stops at someone`s house to conduct an interview it`s on their terms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police can use all sorts of things to get to you tell the truth, stories that aren`t perhaps true.

BROWN: We need to know where he was that whole evening. We know he was at the -- at the store with her when the wine was bought.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": One thing that we`re finding is that the police are being very meticulous about everything that they do.

STARK: And I am really upset that they let the media follow these kids doing their trick or treating. They should not be in the media eye. They should be protected from all of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an ordinary woman and she is undergoing extraordinary circumstances.

STARK: The smoking gun piece of information that we`re missing here is the homeless man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that she was passed out drunk. We know that she takes anti-anxiety drugs. She does not know how to behave or how to conduct an interview or whatever.


GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Breaking news unfolding. Practically every 24 hours in the search for baby Lisa.

Straight out to Jim Spellman standing by at the Irwin home. We`re also learning that there`s a distinct possibility mommy may have imbibed much, much more alcohol than we first suspected?

HURT: That`s right. This morning in the "Kansas City Star" fresh details saying that now it could have been up to 10 drinks that she had of wine. Ten glasses of wine, previously she`d used the figure five. Ten is a lot more than five, obviously, Nancy.

Really difficult to tell, though, because these details come out via the family, via media interviews. Really hard to piece together. You know it seems like it`s a really moving target what exactly happened that night.

GRACE: To Dr. Ann Contrucci, pediatrician joining us out of Atlanta.

Doctor Ann, thank you for being with us. What does that equal, 10 drinks? What does that do to a body?

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN: That`s a pretty drunk person if you ask me. I mean even somebody of an average weight, 10 drinks, 10 glasses of wine, that is -- would almost be considered a binge drinking type thing. I think we had talked before about blacking out and that`s one of the things that can lead to blacking out if you do some pretty major binge drinking that you`re going to black out.

And remember what we said about blacking out. Blacking out means you`re still conscious, you just don`t have any idea what`s going on around you.

GRACE: Doctor Ann Contrucci, another issue. We know that a cadaver dog has hit on the carpet in mommy`s bedroom. Now the defense is claiming that could be a dog hitting on a human, for instance, finger nail? Or even a poopy pants. Wouldn`t blood have to be in the poopy pants? And is it -- is that or is it not unlikely for a 10-month-old to be bleeding?

CONTRUCCI: Well, that`s another great question. I think that again the difference between human waste and human remains, and I think that was brought out so eloquently last week with one of your guests that was the cadaver dog expert.

Blood in a baby diaper is never normal, so that would be considered human remains. Blood is considered human remains. So you know there would have to be blood in her diaper but there should not be a reason for her to have blood in her diaper. Just some stools, just some poop in the diaper is not human remains.

GRACE: Joining me us is former sergeant, Phoenix PD and child advocate, Paul Penzone.

Paul, I want to hear what you have to say. You`ve handled so many cases where children have to be interviewed. I don`t mean interrogated, I mean interviewed. When I had child molestation cases or child witness to a homicide or a felony, I would interview them myself at the child`s home. OK. Not in a police interrogation room.

And I would speak to them as best I could in their own language and let the story unfold. I`ve worked with very young children. I`ve worked with children that have mental and emotional and physical handicaps, and there is a way to speak to them, to find out the truth, without traumatizing them.

So Paul Penzone, what do you make of mommy and daddy`s decision refusing cops access to the 5 and 8-year-old but yet they`ll parade them around on national TV trick or treating?

PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: Well, I mean the focus is really on -- is recovering baby Lisa so in doing that you`re undermining law enforcement efforts.

And this is an evolution, Nancy. I as you interviewed kids early in my career. And when law enforcement recognized how particular or how specific this interview needed to be they went to a more advanced level. What they do now is they have a room, the room is designed to be kid friends.

The forensic interviewer does not lead, does not intimidate but gets the child the opportunity to express their own thoughts and then tries to learn from that experience. It is not an interrogation. I listened to the defense attorneys tonight. I respect them both, I like to listen to them, but I almost feel as though we`re fighting law enforcement at the expense of baby Lisa as though not interviewing these kids as -- you know, it`s the wrong thing to do. It`s the right thing to do to interview these children and it should have been -- Peter did say, it should have been done right out of the get-go.

GRACE: OK, to you, Lauren Lake, respond.

LAKE: They were interviewed initially. They want a re-interview. And just to add on to that I think the problem is the police have to also learn a lesson, Nancy. When they come at these parents in an accusatory manner, aggressive, showing the mother burnt clothing and all of this you put the family off.

And now yes, they are having a tough time cooperating with police that`s why they lawyered up and now they`re following the direction of their lawyers and their lawyers obviously said we`re going to schedule the interview and I`ll let you know when.

GRACE: You know, Gloria Allred, I understand actually what Lauren is saying. However, to find their baby they have to cooperate with police. So to me all of that is out the window. All I know is how I reacted when I lost my son for two minutes in a big store. And it`s not like this. Of course the parents are not suspects.

But, Gloria, what is your advice to the mom and dad?

ALLRED: Well, of course my advice would be they have to listen to their attorney because obviously they are not ruled out as potential -- they are least persons of interest whether or not --

GRACE: Regarding the children --


ALLRED: I know. But having said that, you know, if they really have nothing to fear they should have the children speaking to the police and that should have been done and redone early on, and this kind of delay only raises eyebrows and only raises suspicions and concerns.

GRACE: Peter Odom?

ODOM: I completely agree with Miss Allred that the police blew it early on. The police are making a huge PR blunder here --

GRACE: Now, see, why are you saying that? Because they interviewed the boys for 30 and 50 minutes initially. Right when everything happened. But as the facts unfolded, they need to talk to the boys again. So how is that police botching it? I don`t understand your smearing on the cops.


ODOM: Nancy, it`s almost a month later at this point. There`s no way their testimony is going to be reliable --

GRACE: Yes, because mommy and daddy won`t let them speak to the boys.

ODOM: No, no, no, no, no. They were cooperating --

GRACE: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

ODOM: -- for several days, Nancy, and you know that.

GRACE: No. I know that they`ve been trying to talk to the boys for weeks and mommy won`t allow it.


GRACE: Everyone, I want to take this chance to thank you again for all of your support, your love, your e-mails, the letters, the phone calls, the votes on "Dancing with the Stars." And because of you I managed to make it to week eight.

All of my money going to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And therefore, I promised to bring you the perfect tango come Monday night. And again, thank you.



TRISTAN MACMANUS, NANCY GRACE`S DANCING PARTNER: If you enjoyed it, thanks very much. If you didn`t, well, whatever.

GRACE: Well, we`ll try again next week God willing. This is what we think of the team paso.


MACMANUS: Next week is the first week where we`re going to have an instant dance. So that`s going to be a jive that everybody`s going to do. The difference with the instant dance I guess is you don`t get your music until the day of the competition.

GRACE: I was just thinking about everybody that has tuned in and watched us and taken the time to vote, to care.


GRACE: You know, every week I stay in that check to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children gets bigger.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Luke Holler, 21, Bulverde, Texas, killed Iraq, awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, Combat Action Ribbon. Black belt in Tae Kwon Do, loved sports, computer war games, remembered as loyal.

Leaves behind grieving parents, Ruth and John, Jr., sisters Jennifer, Rebecca and Elizabeth, brother Joseph, fiancee and soulmate Jessica.

Luke Holler, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Tomorrow night I`ll see you live 8:00 sharp Eastern, where in our own way we will be seeking justice. And until then, good night, friend.


My angels on earth, the Shriners-every thing they do is for the children and they never ask for anything in return. What a concept.....
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 2715

Thanks Brandi!

« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 03:00:30 PM »



Missing 10-Month-Old`s Uncle Questioned by Police

Aired November 1, 2011 - 20:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight out of America`s heartland in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib in the dead of night.

Bombshell developments tonight as we learn baby Lisa`s uncle meets with investigators, the very same uncle with baby Lisa`s mom when she`s caught on surveillance video buying wine at a local grocery store right before baby Lisa vanishes. Detectives spotted visiting a home for 30 minutes where baby Lisa`s parents have been staying. Then cops leave with the uncle of the missing child.

But Mommy and Daddy are still refusing to sit down for separate interviews with cops. Instead, they take their little boys trick-or- treating and still won`t let those boys talk to cops about what happened the night their baby sister disappeared. And tonight, a witness who sees a mystery man with a baby the very night baby Lisa goes missing joins us live tonight.

Where is baby Lisa?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie says she checked on Lisa around 10:30 the night before.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER: I said, Call 911. And he said, Where are the phones?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were two boys in the house when Mom was drinking and maybe even blacked out. They could be a huge source of information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband noticed that he was carrying a baby in his arms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then when Jeremy got home at 4:00 in the morning, Lisa was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going on in the home, in the family, what they may have seen.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Hasn`t Mommy admitted she was passed out cold drunk?

-- drunk...

-- drunk...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the baby appeared to not have anything on but a diaper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mom apparently told police initially she didn`t want to look behind the house because she was afraid what she would find.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said that she was drinking that night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... who`s looking for their child uses the word "grieving."

BRADLEY: Because we`re grieving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... unless they know their child is dead.

BRADLEY: ... grieving...

-- grieving...

-- grieving...

-- grieving...

-- grieving...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that is very striking to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in fact, she may have been drunk. They`re looking for any kind of break in the case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So who is Deborah Bradley?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is like all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops want to interview these parents separately.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a very normal life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. The search for 10-month-old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib.

Straight out to CNN correspondent Jim Spellman, on the scene at baby Lisa`s home in Kansas City. Jim, what is the very latest, particularly regarding this uncle of the missing child?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right. It`s the brother of Deborah Bradley, the same man who was seen with her on videotape as she bought that box of wine the night baby Lisa disappeared. Kansas City police arrived midday today at the home where the family has been staying since this began. They took him out, not in handcuffs, nothing like that, got in an unmarked police car, brought him back two hours later. All police will say is this is an active, ongoing investigation and they asked him some questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I would have a lot of questions for the brother of the mother of this missing child, Pat Brown, criminal profiler. For one, he is the man seen on the surveillance video who goes to the grocery store and buys a box of wine with the mother of the missing child. And he reportedly was taking her there because she doesn`t have a driver`s license. And then some reports suggest that he just took her back to the house on the night that baby Lisa disappeared and dropped her off. But there have been conflicting reports about that.

I have so many questions for this guy, Pat Brown, criminal profiler.

All right, well, I`m going to throw that out to Steve Kardian, former police detective. And you certainly would have a lot of questions for this guy, as well, would you not?

STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE: Yes, I would, Jane. And it`s a positive development. When law enforcement stops at someone`s house to conduct an interview, it`s on their terms. It`s usually a fishing expedition. The fact that he was taken into police headquarters on their territory, it is likely to have gone further through their investigation, taking a statement, developing some information. It`s a positive thing.

With regard to the phone call -- bizarre. Does he have information on that specifically? I certainly would hope so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would you like to ask, Pat Brown, criminal profiler, the brother of the mother of the missing child?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, we need to know where he was that whole evening. We know he was at the store with her when the wine was bought, but that`s all we know outside of the investigation. I would like to know exactly what all his movements were that evening, if any phone calls were made, if he ever showed back up at the house, if he disappeared at any point in time. I`d like to know all of those things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we have a very special guest with us tonight. Mike Thompson is the man that says at 4:00 in the morning, he`s driving his motorcycle, I believe, when he sees a man in the dead of night, 4:00 in the morning, 45-degree temperatures approximately, walking around this area about three miles from the home where baby Lisa lived with her parents holding a baby, a mystery man holding a baby.

And we are with Mike Thompson tonight, and he is with us. Mike, describe again, as we get started pondering this mystery tonight, what you saw on the night baby Lisa disappeared vis-a-vis this mystery man.

MIKE THOMPSON, SAW MAN CARRYING BABY (via telephone): OK. I was coming down 435 and I exited on 48th Street. As I was pulling up to the 48th Street, I seen a man walking, carrying something. And when I got closer, I seen it was a baby.

And I stopped about 30, 40 foot from him. He was going down Randolph. And I stopped, and he turned around and looked at me, and I looked at him. And I just went on. But I was thinking, What an idiot out there with a baby with no blanket, no coat, in diapers and a T-shirt as cold as it was. Anyway, and then I went on down to my cousin`s house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, eventually, you were shown photographs. We do not want to identify in any way, shape or form the individual that you picked out of a group of photographs, except to say that this is a person who reportedly lives in the neighborhood. That being said, what happened vis-a-vis these photographs, Mike?

THOMPSON: Well, I finally got to see some photographs, and I had to really look at them because -- and remember what the guy looked like. Anyway, the longer I looked at him and the more I thought about it, it was the man I seen holding the baby and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you ended up with cops. And what happened with that, with cops, the photographs and you? Tell us about that.

THOMPSON: Well, now, I went down to the police station or whatever it was, and they showed me a kind of a line-up picture with six guys on it. And I picked him out of the six because that was the man I seen. And they thanked me, and that was it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did they seem shocked by that? They are the ones who gave you a photograph of this man? So in other words, they were aware of this individual, the cops?

THOMPSON: Yes. No. They wasn`t shocked at all. They just said, Thank you, and I left.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m trying to analyze all this. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline, we have a fascinating cast of characters here. You have the mother and father of the missing child. The dad is at work until 4:00 in the morning on the overnight shift. He comes back at 4:00 in the morning and he sees the lights on and a window open and the door is unlocked. And he`s, like, What the heck`s going on? He wakes the mother up. Boom! She`s been drinking a lot of wine, she says, approximately five glasses, plus perhaps taking anti-anxiety meds. And she freaks out. They realize the baby`s missing. All hell breaks loose.

So you have the mother and the father. Then you have the brother, who was with the mother earlier on in the evening, at least, to get wine. Then you have the neighbor. When they come back from the store with the box of wine, she proceeds to drink wine with the neighbor. She puts the baby to sleep at 6:40 in the evening, she says, and then she drinks with the neighbor, this woman, on the stoop until 10:30, when the woman leaves.

Now you see at 4:00 in the morning, this man, Mike Thompson, sees a man walking around in the middle of the night, 45 degrees, holding a baby. Another couple had also seen the man, the mystery man, at 12:15, shortly after midnight.

We have a huge cast of characters here and there`s a lot of confusion. What do you make of it as you put the pieces of the puzzle together?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, the one thing that we`re finding is that the police are being very meticulous about everything that they do. Now, I believe they spoke with Mr. Thompson more than one time. They`ve spoken with the neighbors repeatedly. They`ve gone back to the brother after almost a month of baby Lisa missing. They still want to talk to the parents because they obviously have a lot of questions.

There`s also he phone call that was made to Megan Wright from one of the Bradley`s phones -- Deborah Bradley`s phones, even though she said the phone was not working because they hadn`t paid the bill. Megan is somehow connected to Jersey, the homeless man that was wandering around the neighborhood that was spotted earlier that afternoon, and people think that perhaps he had something to do with it. He`s still in jail.

So there`s quite a lot of people, but the police are tracking each and every one of them. And they seem to be following up on one lead, and that lead is they want to talk to the parents only.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we had been hearing -- last Friday, we heard that the parents would make the two children who were in the house, a 5 or 6-year-old and an 8-year-old boy, available to police to reinterview them. They only talked to them briefly after the child went missing. They want to talk to these kids about what did they see. The kids were there in the home.

The parents have not made those children available again. And they were going to reportedly last week and they yanked them back.

Now, I want to bring in the attorneys, Peter Elikann and Lorna Owens, and ask them about that. Peter, is there anything that cops can do to get around the parents` refusal to allow the kids to be interviewed? And by the way, they`re refusing to allow the cops to interview the children even as they reportedly allowed "Good Morning America" to follow the kids trick- or-treating last night. What do you make of that, Peter?

PETER ELIKANN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I -- Joe Tacopina says the children have already talked to them for five hours. He said he`s going to make the children -- the family says they`re going to make the children available again. Joe Tacopina says that he just doesn`t necessarily want to announce it to the media, and he`ll do it in his own time.

I know time is of the essence, but I can`t second-guess and get behind exactly what their strategy is. But he says the children have already spoken to them, the police, and they will be speaking again.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family has cooperated in every way they could possibly cooperate.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was definitely an attention hound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A phone number on Mom`s hand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are you talking to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) number was right on the palm of her hand. It was shown to a detective.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got a call from the phone that was stolen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Took all of our phones so we couldn`t call anybody.

BRADLEY: You know, maybe somebody wanted a baby!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she was stolen from that home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know Deborah Bradley?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`ve never met her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She admits that she was drinking, that she had a lot to drink, that she passed out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Connecting the dots in the search for baby Lisa.

BRADLEY: No questions asked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still very mysterious what it may mean.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guess what that proved? She`s a truth teller.

BRADLEY: Please, please, please!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why won`t you talk to us?

BRADLEY: Because we`re grieving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sooner or later, everyone is going to know exactly what happened to baby Lisa.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Where is this precious, adorable, helpless child? We are trying to find out here on the NANCY GRACE show. And to that end, we`re exploring all of these very disparate events and this really bizarre cast of characters that is being assembled.

Now, Joe Tacopina, the very famous attorney who was representing the parents, has now indicated that there will be no further comment to the media from the family or their attorneys, even as, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, the parents allow a camera crew from "Good Morning America" to reportedly follow the children around as they trick-or-treated last night, even as the family is saying, Well, we are not yet providing the children to talk to the cops. What do you make of it?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I have to tell you, Jane, I am really upset that they let the media follow these kids doing their trick-or- treating. They should be private. They should not be in the media eye. They should be protected from all of this. If the parents are so concerned with protecting them from police questioning, that they`ll be harmed, why in heck are they letting the media follow them? That`s completely out of bounds.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, the mother is saying she hasn`t even talked -- the last time we heard from her, she hasn`t even talked to the kids about what happened that night because she doesn`t want to upset them. Well, they kids have to have some reason for why this camera crew is following them around trick-or-treating.

AUSTIN: Exactly right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s bizarre. It`s bizarre.

AUSTIN: It`s -- it`s...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, we`re -- go ahead.

AUSTIN: It`s just -- it`s -- it`s distorting their ability to live normal lives, and it`s very harmful to the kids to have them in the media, period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re going to open the phone lines now. They are lighting up. Laura, Washington state, your question or thought, Laura.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why won`t they cooperate? And have the police ever thought that the parents could be involved?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the police have said officially they are not suspects or persons of interest. They have no suspects. But the parents have made themselves the focus of the investigation.

Lorna Owens, defense attorney, the very fact that the mother had said publicly that cops told her she failed a polygraph, the fact that the mother had expressed her fears that she was going to be arrested -- the police haven`t said anything publicly, Lorna.

LORNA OWENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what we have to understand, Jane -- this is an ordinary woman and she is undergoing extraordinary circumstances. She went to bed, and now her child is missing. We know that she was passed out drunk, We know that she takes anti-anxiety drugs. She does not know how to behave or how conduct an interview or whatever.

So now that she has an attorney that can help her cooperate with the police, help her tell her story in a manner that`s most appropriate, we certainly should be seeing a different posture. But I feel for her because now everything she says, we are going to be judging her by it. And she`s just an ordinary mother who went to bed one night drunk, and she wakes up and her little daughter is gone. And now the whole world is asking her, Tell us what happened? Tell us what happened? And she does not know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she says she does not know. I certainly give her the benefit of the doubt. But there`s a problem with her story. She said she put the child in the crib at 6:40, proceeded to drink and get drunk with her next-door neighbor on the stoop. The neighbor leaves at 10:30. She passes out in the bed. She wakes up to find her baby gone and the three cell phones gone.

But Alexis Tereszcuk, a call was made it from one of those cell phones between 8:00 and 8:30 at night to a woman with pink hair. How can you say that you passed out at 10:30 and everything was fine until you passed out when a call was made from the phone that was supposedly stolen after that?

TERESZCUK: And this is a phone that she has said did not have the capability to make any outgoing phone calls. Well, you know what? The police proved her wrong on that fact.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) primarily the first time when I was downtown for six hours, it was all about the phone call. Who would have had access to my phone? Who had possession of it at the time? I mean, I told them, you know, I didn`t know who was here. It`s possible that other people had came and left because I was downstairs at the time.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So who is Deborah Bradley?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is like all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops want to interview these parents separately.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a very normal life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They feel that there are some police officers who not looking for their baby and they`re just looking at them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the police are treating them as suspects, even though they`re not using the word "suspects."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The focus is heavily on that house and people in it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they`re frustrated but they won`t stop looking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, there are miracles, and hopefully, this will be one of them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Where is this precious, beautiful, helpless child? We are trying to find out. Cops have just reinterviewed this child`s uncle, the brother of the child`s mother, the man who went with the mother to pick up a box of wine hours before the child disappeared.

Meantime, the very night the child disappears, at 4:00 in the morning, approximately, a man sees another man. This guy is a commuter. He`s zipping by. I believe it`s on a motorcycle. He sees a man walking around, 4:00 in the morning, holding a baby who is mostly naked. And who is this mystery man?

I want to go to Mike Thompson, the man who says he saw this mystery man holding a baby. First of all, Mike, I want to thank you for joining us. And all of your questions -- my questions to you are really as a search for the truth. We`re not trying to put you on the spot whatsoever. But I do want to ask you -- it was approximately two weeks that you waited before you notified police. Why was that?

THOMPSON: No, ma`am. It was the next week.


THOMPSON: See, I went to -- I go to my cousin`s on a Tuesday morning after I get off work, and I visit with him and then I come home.


THOMPSON: I live 90 miles from there. Anyway, I was on my way down to his house after work, and that`s when I seen this man with the baby. And I went down there and I visited with him. I thought I told him about it, but I guess I didn`t. Anyway, he says I didn`t. And the next week, I told him about it, and he said, Well, you better call the police.

So he dials the police, and he told them that I had witnessed a man carrying a baby. They talked to me on the phone. And then the next morning, they came to my house, two detectives did, to question me and left. And next thing I know, I`m starting to get things from reporters wanting interviews and stuff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did this man look like? Did he appear drunk, possibly, or high? It`s cold. It`s something like 45 degrees. Why is he just wearing a T-shirt?

THOMPSON: I have no idea, ma`am. I have no idea. And it`s where I seen him is away from -- there`s no houses for at least a quarter mile.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter, Lisa, was taken from our home.

BRADLEY: We have to be strong for her!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hair samples, mouth swabs, hours of interviews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Using X-ray equipment that can be used to look inside walls and floorboards.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The garden area where dirt appeared to be recently disturbed or overturned in the search for Lisa, a beautiful little girl.




GRACE: The search for baby Lisa ratchets up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who are you talking to?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Complete mystery at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There`s a lot of confusion around the phones.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother wrote my cell phone number on her hand during the interview.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": These other stories continue not to add up. And it`s like a jigsaw puzzle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no idea what`s going on.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: This is really bizarre.

BROWN: There`s too many people involved in this with Deborah Bradley that night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A man walking down the street at around the same time holding a baby that`s naked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve seen a guy walking over here. I could tell he had a baby with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To try and find Jersey.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is Jersey John Tanko (ph), kind of a homeless drifter who did yard work.

MARY HURT, BABY LISA`S NEIGHBOR, POLICE CHECKED HER PROSPERITY FOR SUSPICIOUS FOOTPRINTS: He`s suspicious and kind of shady, I would say. He kind of comes out of nowhere.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she was stolen from that home.

BRADLEY: You know maybe somebody wanted a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New twists and turns out of Missouri.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Where is this precious, innocent, helpless child? We are trying to find out where is baby Lisa. Bombshell developments today as police pick up the brother of the mother of this child and take him in for two hours of questioning today. This is the very same man who went with the mother of this child to a store early in the evening and picked up a box of wine with her.

What did he see? Did anybody see this child on that day, aside from the immediate family, the mother and the father? Now we also have another bombshell development. And I want to spell this out and then go to Jim Spellman, because it`s complicated.

There were three phones purportedly in the house that were allegedly taken along with the child, but at 8:30 in the evening that night before the mother says that she passed out, a phone call was made reportedly from one of those phones to a woman with pink hair.

Now it just so turns out that this woman with pink hair used to date a homeless man who works in the neighborhood as a yard man named Jersey.

Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent -- or I`ll actually throw this to Alexis Tereszcuk. This homeless man, Jersey, has a criminal record. He was actually taken into custody not in this case but for some burglary issue, and he actually had a court appearance today. So try to connect the dots here for us. It`s something out of the show "Twin Peaks." I don`t know if anybody remembers that old show, but -- where there were a lot of cryptic developments in a seemingly perfect small town. It`s kind of having that sort of macabre feeling to it.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Except it was Laura Palmer`s dad that murdered her after all in "Twin Peaks," right?


TERESZCUK: The thing about -- the thing about this is Jersey appeared -- John appeared in court today. The public defender, who has been assigned to him, said that they haven`t really had enough time to look at the case, so the case was postponed until November 15th. But he is in jail for now. It has nothing to do with this case/ He was arrested on outstanding warrants.

But he has a long rap sheet, burglaries, and in fact that`s why Megan, the woman with pink hair, said she broke up with him, because she said, I`m OK dating a guy with a bad past, as long as it`s in the past.

And it wasn`t in the past. She said she realized that he was doing things again that she couldn`t handle so they broke up. She said their breakup was very violent and she said that he got in a fight when he was in her house. He punched one of her friends and she just said that was the end of it. So he`s sitting in jail right now where the police can talk to him whenever they want.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, and he had a court hearing, and the guy you were just looking at there a second ago is Jersey.

Want to go out to Jim Spellman -- there he is -- in court on some kind of burglary issue possibly. Tell us about his possible connection to this case as we look at Jersey, the homeless man who was doing yard work in the area.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, ON THE SCENE OUTSIDE BABY LISA`S HOME: Well, geographically he`s connected because we know he was wandering around this neighborhood often looking for work. But he`s directly connected because of that phone call. Phone call to Megan Wright. Megan Wright is his ex-girlfriend. So we do know that he is directly involved in the investigation. Not saying he was involved in anything that may have happened.

And the geography is so important because the yard where Lisa, the neighbor, sees a man step into at 12:15 just after midnight that night is a yard that he cut through constantly. And that yard confirmed by the neighbor, confirmed by Megan Wright, they cut through there often. And just at the edge of that yard is a dumpster that was reported on fire around 2:30 that night.

So there`s definitely a lot of geographic connections that place him - - you know around the home. We can`t, of course, connect him directly to Deborah or Jeremy at this point. So we really don`t know what role he plays in this. He certainly would probably have some interesting information, a guy that`s on foot in this neighborhood so often if nothing else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when you say that neighbors saw another man, that was the man with the baby, right?

SPELLMAN: Correct. The man with the baby just after midnight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. And apparently Jersey loved fire, according to some published reports? What do you know about that, Jim?

SPELLMAN: That`s what Megan Wright told me today. His ex-girlfriend said he loved fire and he talked about it. Now I asked did she -- did you ever see him actually set a fire, she said no, but we have just uncovered - - a criminal record for arson in New Jersey for this man John Tanko in the `90s. And it looks like from Internet -- open source Internet searches of New Jersey criminal records that he served about five years for that arson, getting out of a jail there in Jersey around 2003.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I would assume, Steve Kardian, that the cops have gone over this dumpster that was set on fire the very night that baby Lisa disappears with a fine-tooth comb.

STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, SELF-DEFENSE EXPERT, LEAD INSTRUCTOR AT DEFEND UNIVERSITY: Yes, it`s my understanding the dumpster was confiscated and it`s not usual to confiscate a dumpster that`s been involved in a fire -- an arson, a burning. So there must be some connection to that dumpster relating to this baby or possible evidence that exists inside of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Diana in Nebraska. Your question or thought, Diana.



DIANA: I`d like to know -- well, I was wondering, if the brother -- we`ll just say if the brother is the one that everybody is saying that seen walking with the baby with nothing on or anything, don`t you think that since the baby was taken from the home out of its bed that it being cold out there, don`t you think that they would have wrapped the baby up?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, thank you for calling, Diana. But there`s absolutely no indication that the brother is in any way, shape or form involved in this. He was interviewed by police, but they want to interview everybody. They want to interview the 5- and 8-year-old boys who were in the house that night.

And yes, I think you raise an excellent point beyond that, Pat Brown, is that why wouldn`t anybody who was carrying around a child who`s naked or almost naked in the dead of night in 45-degree temperatures, especially if they`ve done something untoward, why wouldn`t they hide the child?

BROWN: Well, you would think so. I mean, first of all you think they would put it in a bag and carry it away. The only reason they could be taking it off in just a diaper is that they were in shock.

Now as far as Jersey goes, I find him a very nice representation of a very psychopathic felon. He`s got the -- the burglary, he`s got the arson, he is a drifter. That`s a scary guy. But he`s also -- this guy is a con artist type. And I would like to know if he`s had any kind of mixings with Deborah Bradley, because he`s been lurking around the neighborhood, and she`s been hanging out drinking.

I want to know if she`s ever hooked up with her in some way, shape and form. Because one of the things about those phones, she`s got three cell phones, she says she`s programming them. Well, they`re all not useable, why is she programming them? Or is she un-programming them? And that`s the question the police are asking.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know what type of crime has been committed.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dozens of massive searches.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No closer to finding baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Inconsistencies in the mother`s story.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Profoundly troubling.

BRADLEY: We don`t know where she at? Why is she gone?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No one knows where baby Lisa is.



SPELLMAN: How would somebody get out of the house with baby Lisa? If they came back outside of this window or the front door, they would be very exposed to anybody in the neighborhood, anybody driving by.

This is an empty field. Police searched here early in the investigation. This entire wooded area that starts here along the edge goes down to that corner and works its way all the way back ultimately ending up at a school down this road.

And if you continue through these woods, it will take you literally to the backyard of baby Lisa`s house. They`re going to do everything they can to try to put new eyes on it, new technology, in this case using the dogs as a new tool to try to find baby Lisa or any kind of hint as to where she may be.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace.

Where is baby Lisa? We want to find out and there is a whole giant cast of characters that is coming into play here, and we don`t know what they are connections are. But I can just tell you some of them. You have obviously the missing baby. You have the mother of the missing child. You have the father.

He`s working the overnight shift, comes home at 4:00 a.m. You got the mom who is drinking at least five drinks, she says, drinking on the stoop with a female neighbor until about 10:30. Then you have this homeless man named Jersey. We just saw him in court. He does yard work in the area.

He used to go out with a woman who has pink hair, Megan Wright, who gets a phone call at -- between 8:00 and 8:30 on the night that the child disappears from one of the phones that was allegedly taken when the child was taken. And you have perhaps the most important character, the mystery man walking about the neighborhood holding a baby.

And the only thing we know about that mystery man is that he is purportedly somebody who lives in the neighborhood because cops showed one of the witnesses a photograph of a bunch of men and he picked this man, who happens to live in the neighborhood.

So Peter Elikann, defense attorney. You`re also the author of "Superpredators." Do you think that cops have a concrete theory and an idea of who they think is responsible?

PETER ELIKANN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "SUPERPREDATORS": I`m not really sure, because as you keep saying there is a large cast of characters here, and I think the police are doing the right thing. Usually people who are kidnapped or murdered they usually -- but not by strangers, it`s usually family or friends, people they know, but not always.

And there`s enough -- and I think it`s great that this isn`t one of these times when they simply look at the parents, prejudge the whole thing, decide, they don`t look at anybody else. They just narrow the investigation to that.

I think it`s wonderful that they are looking sort of at all this huge cast of characters. The uncle and the homeless guy and the stranger holding the baby, et cetera. So I can`t really be sure if they`ve really narrowed it down to one particular person at all. But there`s more than just the parents to look at clearly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now one of the creepiest parts of all this is that Megan Wright, the lady with pink hair who says her phone rang and she received a call from a phone that was reportedly stolen from baby Lisa`s house. She said that cops told her that they found her number written in ink on the hand of the mother of baby Lisa, Deborah Bradley.

Alexis Tereszcuk, we also know that cops sometimes make things up in order to get information, but what do you make of that creepy development?

TERESZCUK: Well, she said the police told her that, but she also said that it was another reporter who told her that that wasn`t true. So the cops haven`t come out and said that this isn`t true.

Absolutely the police can use all sorts of things to tell you the truth. Stories that aren`t perhaps true. But in this case it`s only Megan Wright saying that another reporter told her that that wasn`t true. They also -- the police apparently did this with Deborah Bradley that very -- I guess the first time she was meeting with them. They told her, they showed her what she said were burned baby clothes. If they were trying to say that perhaps that the baby had been burned in the fire in that trash bin right near the house. And she said again that that wasn`t true, it wasn`t her baby`s clothing. So that`s been sort of a pattern, but the police have not come out and denied that they`ve done any of this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s interesting.

Lauren Owens, defense attorney. What do you make of -- here you have the dumpster, you have a fire in the dumpster at about 2:30 in the morning the night the child disappears. Then you have the cops going to the mother showing her burned baby clothes reportedly.

LAUREN OWENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, basically they`re trying to make some nexus, some connection. And as your last guest said, cops are allowed to do this, but by now I want to see them settle down. I`d want to see them either clear the parents, so they can look at this person, for example, who might have been walking around with a baby.

But if the dumpster is close by, it`s a good call because you want to suggest that maybe the baby was put in the dumpster and the fire was used as a cover up. But eventually now I would kind of like to see them settle down and for people to have a direction, because if you have a direction, then all the calls you`re getting in and people who are watching this show and many of the other shows can actually be on the lookout.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let me just say this. What I think of when I think of somebody writing a number on somebody`s hand is partying. That`s what you do when you`re out drinking. I say this is a recovering alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety. When you`re out drinking, you want to get somebody`s number and you`ve had a few, you write it on your hand. You don`t do that when you`re sober unless it`s an absolute emergency.

Your thoughts, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist.

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: The smoking gun piece of information that we`re missing here is the homeless man, the same person who is in the photograph, and the same person who was seen by a witness carrying a baby. That`s one piece of information we have no link.

That`s crucial, because you have a timeline of what could have happened to the baby if he`s the man who was identified. If not, this is a huge mystery.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. He is not considered a suspect in this case, the homeless man, according to police. He`s being held on something else, and my understanding is that it`s a man who lives in the neighborhood and that my understanding is that there is no nexus between those photographs and the homeless man`s Jersey.

AUSTIN: OK. I just think that we don`t know what the police are telling us and what they`re not, what`s true and what`s not, and they`re conducting their case their way. So it`s very hard to come to a conclusion. But it does seem to have a timeline that looks incriminating and I wonder if he`s involved or not, and whether we just don`t have that information.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I would not think it`s a vast conspiracy of any sort because how could all these people or all -- any large group of people keep a shared secret under this kind of pressure and scrutiny? So I don`t think there`s any kind of vast conspiracy here of silence anyway.

Let`s go for the phone lines. Sheryl, Ohio. Your question or thoughts, Sheryl?

SHERYL, CALLED FROM OHIO: Hi, Jane. Excuse me. My question would be, the -- the gentleman that Mr. Thompson saw carrying the baby, does his description fit either the uncle or Jersey?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know, but I`ll throw it out to Jim Spellman.

SPELLMAN: He does not resemble the brother at all. The brother is much younger, different build, doesn`t match at all. There is some similarity between the other descriptions of sightings of people.

I just want to say, Jane, to be very clear that the man that Mike Thompson identified is not Jersey, is not Mike Tanko. And I showed Mike Thompson a photograph of John Tanko, the man known as Jersey and he said no that`s the guy -- not the guy. I`ve never seen him before. I want to sure that nobody takes that implication away that it`s John Tanko that has been identified.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. SO we want to be very, very clear about that, that the man that Mike Thompson identified as a mystery man carrying a baby is not the man known as "Jersey." Very good to stress that and point that out.

We are asking questions only because we want to find this adorable, innocent child, this beautiful little girl.

Where is she? We pray, we pray that somehow by some miracle she`s found OK. It`s been a long time.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it look like anything was disturbed in her room? I mean did anything look out of place other than her not being there?

BRADLEY: No, no. It is like they just walked in and just disappeared.

SPELLMAN: Now if she was to have been taken out of the house at night, this is almost pitch black.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations to our very own Nancy Grace for her fantastic performance last night on "Dancing with the Stars."

Nancy and her amazing dancing partner Tristan McManus gave everyone a thrill with their amazing super fun jive.

Way to go, Nancy. You can win this thing.

Watch this.

And Nancy dancing for an amazing cause, for children.

Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Gregson Gourley, 38 years old from Salt Lake City, Utah. On a second tour of duty in Iraq. And a veteran of Desert Storm. He was awarded the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. He loved football and spending time with his family in their new home and in their camper in the countryside.

He is remembered as a gentle warrior. He leaves behind parents Jerome and Judy, sister Kristin, his brother Eric who is serving in the army right now. His widow, Collette, and four children, Austin, Brandon, Colton, Alexis.

Gregson Gourley, a true American hero.

Thanks to all of our guests and thanks to you at home.

Everybody, we`re going to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern right here. Until then, have a safe evening.

And Nancy, you can win this thing, we know you can.


My angels on earth, the Shriners-every thing they do is for the children and they never ask for anything in return. What a concept.....
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