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Author Topic: Lisa Irwin #4 10/21/11 - 10/27/11  (Read 269468 times)
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starshadow
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« Reply #180 on: October 22, 2011, 04:24:49 AM »

A few things to remember so the media spin isn't blinding:
1) Cadaver dogs have a 10-20% false positive rate even in ideal circumstances,
2) Cadaver dogs will also hit scent of menstrual blood,
3) If amount of cadaver dog reaction was a sure thing, Madeline McCann's parents would have been put away a long time ago,
4) Neither dogs nor polygraphs are anything resembling reliable - at best, they might suggest a useful avenue of investigation to pursue; at worst, they're a red-herring that wastes a lot of time
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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #181 on: October 22, 2011, 07:35:01 AM »

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/21/ddhln.01.html
DR. DREW
Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dog`s Positive `Hit`; Conrad Murray Courtroom Drama; Sex in Church
Aired October 21, 2011 - 21:00   ET

 ::snipping2::
PINSKY: You know, I mentioned a couple of nights ago that more to be revealed on this case. I just get the sense of real chaos here. And, again, substances, chaos, vortex, sounds familiar, doesn`t it? It`s like Casey Anthony all over again. We expect lies, distortion, and may be what we`re going to get here.
 ::snipping2::
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pharlap
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« Reply #182 on: October 22, 2011, 07:37:28 AM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 


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cheeky monkey
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« Reply #183 on: October 22, 2011, 08:29:07 AM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 
Along that line of thinking - what if the baby was dead by the time mom got back from the store and out of the house when dad left for work.  Does anyone know if the dogs checked the cars for decamp smell? I wonder if dads route to work was long and/or searched.



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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #184 on: October 22, 2011, 08:32:07 AM »

Judge Jeanine Pirro Is Live in Kansas City, Missouri With the Latest on Baby Lisa Irwin..

The search for Baby Lisa continues and Judge Jeanine Pirro is live at the crime scene with insight, analysis and the latest in the investigation.

Plus, body language expert Tonya Reiman looks at Baby Lisa’s parents and reveals what they aren’t telling.

Catch a must-see Justice with Judge Jeanine, tonight at 9p ET.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/22/judge-jeanine-pirro-is-live-in-kansas-city-missouri-with-the-latest-on-baby-lisa-irwin/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoxNewsInsider+%28Fox+News+Insider%29
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Babybear
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« Reply #185 on: October 22, 2011, 08:41:25 AM »

A few things to remember so the media spin isn't blinding:
1) Cadaver dogs have a 10-20% false positive rate even in ideal circumstances,
2) Cadaver dogs will also hit scent of menstrual blood,
3) If amount of cadaver dog reaction was a sure thing, Madeline McCann's parents would have been put away a long time ago,
4) Neither dogs nor polygraphs are anything resembling reliable - at best, they might suggest a useful avenue of investigation to pursue; at worst, they're a red-herring that wastes a lot of time

Good morning Monkeys---

Thank you Starshadow for pointing all of this out.  The people on cable news channels have practically become hysterical about the so-called "Hit."  Personally, I doubt that it means anything.  I believe that LE doesn't have a clue and wants to pin this on someone---anyone---just to give the impression that they are doing something. It wouldn't be the first time that this has been done.  I don't think this will ever be solved and I don't think that that precious baby will ever be found. It's going to be exactly like the Aisenberg case, IMO. Likely, Deborah will be accused and arrested on flimsy evidence.  Something like a wiretap transcript saying, "I do fear you have harmed our little baby daughter,"  just like the Aisenbergs, where a judge threw the whole thing out and could hardly keep from laughing at the ridiculous "evidence." The thought that anyone would be so willing to help dispose of a dead baby boggles the mind.  Walking down the street carrying a dead baby is even more mind boggling. Involving oneself in such a conspiracy is a hard one to swallow. I note that another day has passed and Deborah hasn't been arrested. So much for "gut" predictions. As for Deborah being connected to the Mafia, well, what can I say?
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Blonde
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« Reply #186 on: October 22, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »

I was wondering anyone know how long a cadaver dog can detect death?
Jeremys house is from 1958 so if someone died there b4 long ago,is that possible for dogs to pick that up?

I see human waste can be a false too. Guess thy can get the fluid samples maybe?


The CSI death dogs: Sniffing out the truth behind the crime-scene canines
In one study involving four dogs and their handlers, Jacobi says the dogs were able to detect remains at all stages of decomposition. Performance varied between dogs, but some could locate skeletonised remains buried in an area of 300ft by 150ft. "The few single human vertebrae I used in the study were well over 25 years old, and dry bone," Jacobi says. "This made the discovery of one of these vertebrae, which we buried in dense woods 2ft deep, by a cadaver dog pretty remarkable." ::snipping2::
http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html
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Miss Lacey
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« Reply #187 on: October 22, 2011, 08:45:26 AM »

 
Yuknowmenot??????  Do you live close by?

I'm in JoCo too. Alonzo Washington is crying because he never gets any credit. Boo hoo. What about Lisa? Finding her is more important than Alonzo's "credit."
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Blonde
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« Reply #188 on: October 22, 2011, 08:49:46 AM »

I would think that a baby in 45 degree temp without clothes on would be crying
I would think so too and a sick freezing cold baby

Ok it is a possibility that it was Lisa and wouldnt be so far fetched of a thought, that all 3 witnesses claimed to seen a man walk with a baby only in a diaper. That man could of been the brother or bother's friend just walking so someone could get a look at the scene of a guy walking with a baby. I just dont believe if Lisa had been kidnapped that the kidnapper would walk in the middle of the night he might walk down the road get in a unmarked car but to walk a few miles is crazy

Could this guy been actually walking to his car that was parked a few blocks away from Lisa's house?
Then he drove and parked and walked a ways away from his car??

That spot at 4:30am the cops should take dogs there..
 
::snipping2::
How does that scenerio fir in with a cadaver dog hitting in the parent's bedroom..no one else in the family is dead..and unless someone from a previous owner died in that room..then we are left with one result.
but some could locate skeletonised remains buried in an area of 300ft by 150ft. "The few single human vertebrae I used in the study were well over 25 years old, and dry bone," Jacobi says. "This made the discovery of one of these vertebrae, which we buried in dense woods 2ft deep, by a cadaver dog pretty remarkable."
http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html
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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #189 on: October 22, 2011, 09:15:40 AM »

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44992690/ns/today-today_news/t/cadaver-dog-has-hit-inside-baby-lisas-home/#.TqLAM7I2yuI
updated 10/21/2011 9:52:15 PM ET
 ::snipping2::
The affidavit stated that an FBI cadaver dog taken into the house Monday indicated a "positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

The FBI dogs, which often are used at both disaster and crime scenes, are trained "specially to recognize the scent of decaying, decomposing human flesh," retired FBI special agent Jeff Lanza said Friday.

"That can be the scent of an actual body decomposing, or residual scents after the body is no longer there," Lanza said.

But Joe Tacopina, lawyer for the parents, told The Associated Press late Friday he considers the report meaningless. Tacopina noted that cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomposing flesh — and even if the baby had died, decomposition could not have happened so quickly.
 ::snipping2::
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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #190 on: October 22, 2011, 09:19:02 AM »

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lisa-irwin-parents-home-searched-14792120
Lisa Irwin Parents' Home Searched
Suspicious evidence is found in the bedroom of Lisa Irwin's parents.
02:52 | 10/22/2011
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supersleuth99
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« Reply #191 on: October 22, 2011, 09:23:18 AM »

Yuknowmenot??????  Do you live close by?
Yes, I am in JoCo

What's your opinion?


I think DB is responsible.  Big question for me is accidentally or intentionally, but I am leaning towards the latter.  I am also beginning to think she might have had "professional" help after the fact.  How familiar are you with the history of that part of town and the inhabitants of KC North?

Just a little....anything in particular that your thinking?
Maybe  .  You ever hear any rumors of tunnels under houses up there?  A comment made to me early on about the appearance of a family member along with some background on tacoJoe that Kermit posted a couple days back and the mention in the news that it was a family connection that brought both Stanton and tacoJoe to town has me wondering.  It seems so far-fetched, but nothing can be ruled out at this point.

  Ohhhhh, I will have to check that out - I wondered how taco got involved so fast - makes sense now.  I'll go back and find Kermits post!!  I really have only seen about 20 minutes total news on this - will have to check out some family member pics.
I will watch for your take on it! Here is a link to a reply I made to him http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12176.msg1478725#msg1478725 I have to run now, I am exhausted.

The houses with the underground tunnels are North from the Irwins - in Sherwood Estates. 
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Puzzler
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« Reply #192 on: October 22, 2011, 09:27:55 AM »

New blog article at The Hinky Meter:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/22/lisa-irwin-case-search-warrant-and-people-details/

Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details

Posted on October 22, 2011 by Valhall

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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #193 on: October 22, 2011, 09:29:59 AM »

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/
Lisa Irwin case: Search warrant and People details
Posted on October 22, 2011 by Valhall
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Blonde
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« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2011, 09:35:49 AM »



Cadaver dogs, how reliable are they at detecting death?
http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/
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klaasend
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« Reply #195 on: October 22, 2011, 09:39:47 AM »

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44992690/ns/today-today_news/t/cadaver-dog-has-hit-inside-baby-lisas-home/#.TqLAM7I2yuI
updated 10/21/2011 9:52:15 PM ET
 ::snipping2::
The affidavit stated that an FBI cadaver dog taken into the house Monday indicated a "positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

The FBI dogs, which often are used at both disaster and crime scenes, are trained "specially to recognize the scent of decaying, decomposing human flesh," retired FBI special agent Jeff Lanza said Friday.

"That can be the scent of an actual body decomposing, or residual scents after the body is no longer there," Lanza said.

But Joe Tacopina, lawyer for the parents, told The Associated Press late Friday he considers the report meaningless. Tacopina noted that cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomposing flesh — and even if the baby had died, decomposition could not have happened so quickly.
 ::snipping2::


Tacopina is an idiot.  Temp in KC Missouri on that day/night was fairly warm outside and no telling how warm inside the house:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMKC/2011/10/4/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition

 ::snipping2::
Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues. This process is known as autolysis. Visible changes caused by decomposition are limited during the fresh stage, although autolysis may cause blisters to appear at the surface of the skin.[7]
 ::snipping2::


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cadaver-dog.htm


 ::snipping2::

In addition to being used to find whole bodies, cadaver dogs are also trained to react to any trace of human remains. This can be very useful in crime investigations, because a cadaver dog can indicate that a cadaver was in a particular location at one point, even if it is no longer there, and these dogs can also find traces of bodies which criminals attempted to conceal by destroying the evidence.



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cw618
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« Reply #196 on: October 22, 2011, 09:48:28 AM »

Just jumping in here.....This story is about 20 minutes away from me, if there is anything any monkey would like for me to do or check out, just let me know.

hi all jokes aside,would you know which starbucks is getting a rewire/refurbished
the one JI is working at
TIA
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« Reply #197 on: October 22, 2011, 10:02:27 AM »

Good morning Monkey's,

Thank-you Muffy and Trimm for posting the October 2, 2011 photos of Baby Lisa.

http://www.kmbc.com/r-slideshow/29423242/detail.html

LI looks healthy, happy, and having fun in these photos. 

I question, if the baby was really sick, (on the following day) she looks in fine form, in the photo's.
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StarMonkey
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« Reply #198 on: October 22, 2011, 10:02:29 AM »

 

 I wanted to point out that the neighbor that saw the man walking w baby said the baby was ONLY wearing a diaper at 12am the oth guy at 4am just said no blanket coat nothin ..
I havnt seen an artical that he says same thing just DIAPER??

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cw618
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« Reply #199 on: October 22, 2011, 10:22:46 AM »

i live in a house where a girl,18 yr of age was murdered,in 98,im the first person
to lease this house since that time,i moved in, in 2002
the owners let it go/moved didnt come back,and a reality co. bought it,refurbed it
new bath,new kit,new flooring,wood and carpet,paint roof furnace,ect.
neighbor told me about it after id leased and moved in
short version,a bloody battle from bedroom,2nd floor to basement,and back to
another bedroom on 2nd floor,the she jumped out a closed window

my Q is could a dog still sniff out decomp at my house
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
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