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Author Topic: Lisa Irwin #4 10/21/11 - 10/27/11  (Read 268918 times)
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klaasend
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« Reply #200 on: October 22, 2011, 10:28:33 AM »

i live in a house where a girl,18 yr of age was murdered,in 98,im the first person
to lease this house since that time,i moved in, in 2002
the owners let it go/moved didnt come back,and a reality co. bought it,refurbed it
new bath,new kit,new flooring,wood and carpet,paint roof furnace,ect.
neighbor told me about it after id leased and moved in
short version,a bloody battle from bedroom,2nd floor to basement,and back to
another bedroom on 2nd floor,the she jumped out a closed window

my Q is could a dog still sniff out decomp at my house

I'd say probably.  Some cadaver dogs are trained to find ancient burial grounds.
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« Reply #201 on: October 22, 2011, 10:50:46 AM »

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone
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« Reply #202 on: October 22, 2011, 11:24:11 AM »

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone

CW, have you've looked into the history of your house?
Woow, creepy...

Guess we're not getting any updates today you think.....later.
 
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« Reply #203 on: October 22, 2011, 11:30:14 AM »

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone

That sounds kinda fun!  Next time you sense his presence, just say "Hello!  How ya doin' ?"   Maybe he's a nice ghost.   
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« Reply #204 on: October 22, 2011, 11:35:25 AM »

Witnesses?

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011


<snipped>

Earlier today, three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom.

Mike Thompson told ABC News that he was on his way home from work around 4 a.m. on Oct. 4 when he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three miles from the Irwin home.

It was shortly after 4 a.m. that Lisa's parents said they discovered she was missing.

"[At] 4 a.m., 45 degrees, baby don't have a coat or nothing and this guy is walking down the street and I thought it was kind of weird," Thompson said.

He thought the sight was so unusual that he recalled considering offering the man and baby a ride home, but couldn't because he was on his motorcycle. He later reported what he saw to police and told ABC News he is convinced the baby was Lisa.

Thompson described the man as around 5-feet-7, between 140 and 150 pounds and in his late 30s or early 40s.

A few hours earlier, a couple living three houses down from the Irwin family said they saw a similar sight. A woman and her husband said they saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby. They thought the situation was so unusual that they reported it to police on the morning of Oct. 4.

"It was shocking because I couldn't imagine anyone outside walking with their baby in the cold like that with no clothes on," the woman told ABC News.

Bradley has said that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her, but the neighboring couple said they baby they saw did not appear to be wearing any clothing.

"We seen the little arm, the leg, it didn't look like the baby had on any clothes, just a diaper," she said.

The woman said police have interviewed her four times and police say they are still looking into the possible sightings.

"That is something that we've followed up on," said Kansas City Police Department Sgt. Stacey Graves. "We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw."

Graves said investigators plan on continuing to follow up on tips and leads today.

"Eyewitness testimony tends to be notoriously unreliable," said "Good Morning America" legal analyst Dan Abrams today. "With that said, the consistency of these two accounts is interesting."

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129


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« Reply #205 on: October 22, 2011, 11:42:18 AM »

Missing Baby Lisa: Family Attorney Says Cadaver Dogs May be Misleading Officials
Oct. 22, 2011


The search for Lisa Irwin hit closer to home this week as cadaver dogs have picked up the scent of human remains next to the her parent's bed, according to a police affidavit.

But an attorney for the family said following the cadaver dog's nose may be misleading investigators.

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

"In studies done of cadaver dogs where the dog has direct access to the scent and its reasonably fresh - its above 90 percent.

The affidavit, released on Friday, revealed that a cadaver dog searching for evidence for missing the 11-month-old "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822
 

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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #206 on: October 22, 2011, 11:43:55 AM »

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone

My hubby had one is old house, they were friendly.It took me a while to get to sleep over
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Itaryl Moosee
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« Reply #207 on: October 22, 2011, 11:51:14 AM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 

That is a real possibility, IMO. The pictures of the birthday party show a smiling Lisa, a happy Lisa. She could've had a cold, and still have fun... but usually a kid who has a cold also has a runny nose, red nose, teary eyes, and a reddish tinge under the eyes.

Maybe the mother told people Lisa had a cold, but maybe Lisa was really hurt. I still can't believe she harmed Lisa before going into the store. Her smile on the surveillance pictures shows a happy Deborah.

Maybe something happened during the day, maybe the mother convinced herself that it was nothing, that Lisa was coming up with a cold and that she would be alright, when in reality Lisa was badly hurt.

Liam Niesen's wife died of a simple hit on the head that seemed like nothing in the beginning. A simple hit on the head can create serious effects on a person, that will develop over hours, even days.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... too many maybes. I just wish Deborah or Jeremy would come out and tell the truth.

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« Reply #208 on: October 22, 2011, 11:54:57 AM »

Witnesses?

Missing Baby Lisa: Cadaver Dogs Detect Smell of 'Deceased Human' in Irwin House
Oct. 21, 2011


<snipped>

Earlier today, three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom.

Mike Thompson told ABC News that he was on his way home from work around 4 a.m. on Oct. 4 when he saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby at an intersection about three miles from the Irwin home.

It was shortly after 4 a.m. that Lisa's parents said they discovered she was missing.

"[At] 4 a.m., 45 degrees, baby don't have a coat or nothing and this guy is walking down the street and I thought it was kind of weird," Thompson said.

He thought the sight was so unusual that he recalled considering offering the man and baby a ride home, but couldn't because he was on his motorcycle. He later reported what he saw to police and told ABC News he is convinced the baby was Lisa.

Thompson described the man as around 5-feet-7, between 140 and 150 pounds and in his late 30s or early 40s.

A few hours earlier, a couple living three houses down from the Irwin family said they saw a similar sight. A woman and her husband said they saw a man in a t-shirt carrying a baby. They thought the situation was so unusual that they reported it to police on the morning of Oct. 4.

"It was shocking because I couldn't imagine anyone outside walking with their baby in the cold like that with no clothes on," the woman told ABC News.

Bradley has said that Lisa was wearing purple shorts and a purple t-shirt when she last saw her, but the neighboring couple said they baby they saw did not appear to be wearing any clothing.

"We seen the little arm, the leg, it didn't look like the baby had on any clothes, just a diaper," she said.

The woman said police have interviewed her four times and police say they are still looking into the possible sightings.

"That is something that we've followed up on," said Kansas City Police Department Sgt. Stacey Graves. "We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw."

Graves said investigators plan on continuing to follow up on tips and leads today.

"Eyewitness testimony tends to be notoriously unreliable," said "Good Morning America" legal analyst Dan Abrams today. "With that said, the consistency of these two accounts is interesting."

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-cadaver-dogs-detect-smell-deceased/story?id=14786129


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« Reply #209 on: October 22, 2011, 11:57:48 AM »

Thanks for posting that Janet . I bolded some of the artical above. The couple gives no description of the man ..the oth witness doesn't say if the baby was ONLY in a diaper ..not enough info ..
Plus LE discounted the first sighting wonder why?
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« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2011, 11:59:11 AM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 

I thought of that,too!  She could have been next door at Sippy's Smile with the baby monitor. IMO


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« Reply #211 on: October 22, 2011, 12:08:10 PM »

Sorry, I was in your box, Phar.
These are my speculation, opinion and wild ideas 

The evening was chilly, when she was drinking out on the stoop.  Perhaps she began drinking on the front stoop and
then later, took the box over to next door, (about 8:00 pm) when the four year old needed to go to bed.

She stayed a Sippy's, with the baby monitor... This is my guess, opinion what happened on that fateful evening Sad
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« Reply #212 on: October 22, 2011, 12:12:14 PM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 

I thought of that,too!  She could have been next door at Sippy's Smile with the baby monitor. IMO



Bottom line, IF you have NOTHING to hide you don't change stories in midstream.
That's what is bothering me from the 3rd day and after of this investigation.

Just hope they find Lisa, so we would know what actually happened.
Also still think the cops should take the dogs to the last sighting of the guy with the baby.

 
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« Reply #213 on: October 22, 2011, 12:15:13 PM »

n/p sh, u can type in my box.....been there, done that too...
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« Reply #214 on: October 22, 2011, 12:15:45 PM »

TY klaas,creepy,i have a ghost too,he goes in an out of house to the yard with me sometimes
he doesnt talk,just looks at me,when in the yard he goes behind the old shed,i look for him
and he is gone

My hubby had one is old house, they were friendly.It took me a while to get to sleep over

OT, but since we are at it...

I, too, had a "ghost" in a house I lived in. It would manifest itself at nights, after I turned off the lights and everything was pitch dark and quiet. The three tables in the living room would creek, sometimes all at once, the window curtains would move as if a breeze were blowing on them, but the house was closed. The TV would turn on in channels that had no reception, showing nothing on the screen, then the channels would switch as if someone were channel surfing. There was a small cloud or fog, that moved around the room leaving a moist film on anything it touched.

I thought on moving after three weeks, but I talked to a few people about it. One of them was a Native American guy. He told me he had a similar problem once, and said he would talk to someone about my problem.

So a Saturday morning he shows up with a Native American elder. The elder quickly told me to wait until the ghost manifested itself at night, then yell at the ghost, "I order you to get out!", and mean it. I thought he was joking.

He said that the ghost would listen, and know that I was in charge, that it was my home, and it would leave.

I did this that night, and it worked, the first time.

Of course, at the same time I bought a few night lights and put them in... just in case.

 
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« Reply #215 on: October 22, 2011, 12:20:18 PM »

Tacopina is an idiot.  Temp in KC Missouri on that day/night was fairly warm outside and no telling how warm inside the house:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMKC/2011/10/4/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition

 ::snipping2::
Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues. This process is known as autolysis. Visible changes caused by decomposition are limited during the fresh stage, although autolysis may cause blisters to appear at the surface of the skin.[7]
 ::snipping2::


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cadaver-dog.htm


 ::snipping2::

In addition to being used to find whole bodies, cadaver dogs are also trained to react to any trace of human remains. This can be very useful in crime investigations, because a cadaver dog can indicate that a cadaver was in a particular location at one point, even if it is no longer there, and these dogs can also find traces of bodies which criminals attempted to conceal by destroying the evidence.

So much for the guy who said it was 45F degrees outside on that Monday night, and the baby had no blanket or coat. ?

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« Reply #216 on: October 22, 2011, 12:30:52 PM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 

That is a real possibility, IMO. The pictures of the birthday party show a smiling Lisa, a happy Lisa. She could've had a cold, and still have fun... but usually a kid who has a cold also has a runny nose, red nose, teary eyes, and a reddish tinge under the eyes.

Maybe the mother told people Lisa had a cold, but maybe Lisa was really hurt. I still can't believe she harmed Lisa before going into the store. Her smile on the surveillance pictures shows a happy Deborah.

Maybe something happened during the day, maybe the mother convinced herself that it was nothing, that Lisa was coming up with a cold and that she would be alright, when in reality Lisa was badly hurt.

Liam Niesen's wife died of a simple hit on the head that seemed like nothing in the beginning. A simple hit on the head can create serious effects on a person, that will develop over hours, even days.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... too many maybes. I just wish Deborah or Jeremy would come out and tell the truth.



I want to know if Deborah took Lisa to the doctor or if she was even giving her some over the counter child's medication.  I somehow doubt that she took the baby to the doctor because if a child has a doctor visit and either dies or goes missing the next day, I think the police would have those records.  I'm really interested to know how she was treating the baby for her cold because a cough in a ten month old should definitely be checked out.

I also want to know who last saw Lisa and when, other than Deborah and Jeremy.  I want to know what the boys say about the last time they saw Lisa.  I don't understand why she is not letting the police interview them again.  The information about when Deborah and Jeremy last saw Lisa is coming from them and I think they are lying - it's been proven with Deborah.  I want to know if any neighbor or drinking buddy saw her that night. 

When Deborah suddenly changed the time she put Lisa to bed from 10:30 to 6:30 I immediately thought "why is she changing the time to subtract 4 hours?"  Maybe it's because no one saw Lisa during that time.

Too many coincidences - Jeremy working at night for the first time, Lisa being sick and "fussy", Deborah buying a box of wine and drinking with the neighbor, Deborah putting the fan on high in her room while her sick infant is in a room clear across the house from her.

At the very least, I think Deborah is one lousy mother.  I also think that the baby was harmed in some way, either accidentally or deliberately.  But for sure, I think these two are lying.
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« Reply #217 on: October 22, 2011, 12:31:15 PM »

Thinking outside of the box.
What if Lisa was dead way before the morning call to police.

What if Lisa wasn't sick but dead, told Lisa's brothers she was sick and staying in bed with the door closed.

What mother would go next door to drink IF a child is sick and to the store ?

 

That is a real possibility, IMO. The pictures of the birthday party show a smiling Lisa, a happy Lisa. She could've had a cold, and still have fun... but usually a kid who has a cold also has a runny nose, red nose, teary eyes, and a reddish tinge under the eyes.

Maybe the mother told people Lisa had a cold, but maybe Lisa was really hurt. I still can't believe she harmed Lisa before going into the store. Her smile on the surveillance pictures shows a happy Deborah.

Maybe something happened during the day, maybe the mother convinced herself that it was nothing, that Lisa was coming up with a cold and that she would be alright, when in reality Lisa was badly hurt.

Liam Niesen's wife died of a simple hit on the head that seemed like nothing in the beginning. A simple hit on the head can create serious effects on a person, that will develop over hours, even days.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... too many maybes. I just wish Deborah or Jeremy would come out and tell the truth.


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« Reply #218 on: October 22, 2011, 12:33:59 PM »

Thanks for posting that Janet . I bolded some of the artical above. The couple gives no description of the man ..the oth witness doesn't say if the baby was ONLY in a diaper ..not enough info ..
Plus LE discounted the first sighting wonder why?

StarMonkey

I am not sure what to make of the observation by these witnesses.

I can't find it but it was my understanding that the neighbors' sighting intitially stated that the man carrying  the baby was black.

Why did the motocycle rider not come forward immediately.

+++++

Witnesses Say They Saw Man Carrying Baby Resembling Lisa Irwin
October 21st, 2011


Around 12:15 am, a couple that lives a few houses away from the family spotted the man and baby. The female witness, who spoke to ABC, said she has been interviewed by police four times about what she saw.

Three miles away and nearly four hours later, around 4 am, Mike Thompson saw a man and baby fitting a similar description at an intersection off I-435. Thompson said the man was 57 or 58 and probably in his late 30s or early 40s.

Initial media reports about Lisas disappearance mentioned that a man and baby had been seen on their street that night, but Thompson did not report his sighting to police until a week later.

A police spokeswoman confirmed Friday that they are still investigating the possible sightings.

<snipped>

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/21/witnesses-say-they-saw-man-carrying-baby-resembling-lisa-irwin/?hpt=ng_mid


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #219 on: October 22, 2011, 12:41:21 PM »

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44997964#44997964
Baby Lisa missing two weeks now 10/22/2011
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