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Author Topic: Lisa Irwin #4 10/21/11 - 10/27/11  (Read 272583 times)
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #880 on: October 27, 2011, 08:40:26 AM »

If I had 2 children who are old enough to verbalize as these 2 boys are, and my baby was missing, I would be driving them to the police station myself to have them interviewed as I would want them to tell everything that they saw or heard the night that my child went missing.  isn't that what most of us would do? if we didn't have anything to hide. talk to everyone, pick their brains..find out any info that might be out there..jmo...

I believe children may hear or remember more than people want to give them credit for.  I worked part-time afternoons in a child care facility with 2 and 3 year olds years ago.    I was talking with one of the moms one time and she said her son really liked the way the door in the hall to the class room squeaked.  I walked through that door all the time, and I couldn't recall that it squeaked.  Of course, right after that I went over to the door and opened it and sure enough, it squeaked ever so slightly, yet it did squeak. I had never noticed.   The two boys that were in the house the night Lisa Irwin disappeared may very well be able to add something to the investigation imo.  I find it's not always so much you need to talk to children, but sometimes you need to listen to them.  JMHO
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« Reply #881 on: October 27, 2011, 09:07:26 AM »

Mb, your right.  Actually I believe they (kids) have more to say about things that happen then an adult.

Question:
How many times did/does Deb ask the boys to sleep with her?
Once in a blue moon or regularly?
Still can't get around asking the boys and NOT getting Lisa since she was sick.
Deb just let her be by herself, sick.

I never had my kids sleep in my bed with me.

 
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« Reply #882 on: October 27, 2011, 09:21:06 AM »

If I had 2 children who are old enough to verbalize as these 2 boys are, and my baby was missing, I would be driving them to the police station myself to have them interviewed as I would want them to tell everything that they saw or heard the night that my child went missing.  isn't that what most of us would do? if we didn't have anything to hide. talk to everyone, pick their brains..find out any info that might be out there..jmo...

I believe children may hear or remember more than people want to give them credit for.  I worked part-time afternoons in a child care facility with 2 and 3 year olds years ago.    I was talking with one of the moms one time and she said her son really liked the way the door in the hall to the class room squeaked.  I walked through that door all the time, and I couldn't recall that it squeaked.  Of course, right after that I went over to the door and opened it and sure enough, it squeaked ever so slightly, yet it did squeak. I had never noticed.   The two boys that were in the house the night Lisa Irwin disappeared may very well be able to add something to the investigation imo.  I find it's not always so much you need to talk to children, but sometimes you need to listen to them.  JMHO

ITA..but so much time has passed, and the parents have been there to influence what the boys think..and say...I wish they could have been interviewed more extensively earlier..it certainly could have shed some light in some areas that Debbie has been vague on or slow to come forth with the info.  I hope they are not intimidated by the parents and their actions/words at this point.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #883 on: October 27, 2011, 09:49:47 AM »

If I had 2 children who are old enough to verbalize as these 2 boys are, and my baby was missing, I would be driving them to the police station myself to have them interviewed as I would want them to tell everything that they saw or heard the night that my child went missing.  isn't that what most of us would do? if we didn't have anything to hide. talk to everyone, pick their brains..find out any info that might be out there..jmo...

I believe children may hear or remember more than people want to give them credit for.  I worked part-time afternoons in a child care facility with 2 and 3 year olds years ago.    I was talking with one of the moms one time and she said her son really liked the way the door in the hall to the class room squeaked.  I walked through that door all the time, and I couldn't recall that it squeaked.  Of course, right after that I went over to the door and opened it and sure enough, it squeaked ever so slightly, yet it did squeak. I had never noticed.   The two boys that were in the house the night Lisa Irwin disappeared may very well be able to add something to the investigation imo.  I find it's not always so much you need to talk to children, but sometimes you need to listen to them.  JMHO

ITA..but so much time has passed, and the parents have been there to influence what the boys think..and say...I wish they could have been interviewed more extensively earlier..it certainly could have shed some light in some areas that Debbie has been vague on or slow to come forth with the info.  I hope they are not intimidated by the parents and their actions/words at this point.

ITA with you too about the time passing and the possible influence of the parents. 

I had another thought about why DNA is being collected from the two boys.  The first thought I had was the DNA was needed for the investigation to rule out their DNA that could have been found in the home, which could be blood and other fluids.  I would think it necessary to rule out their DNA from that of the decomp found.  I know the boys are alive, but their DNA should still be ruled out.  But the other thought I was having for getting DNA from the two boys is to establish their paternity.  With all that's gone on in the case, I wonder if LE wants to make certain there aren't possibilities of other people that are familiar with the family or have a grudge against someone in the family.  Could here be a former lover, boyfriend or whatever that may have had involvement?
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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #884 on: October 27, 2011, 10:19:31 AM »

Tina Porter is offering support to the parents of Lisa Irwin. Read more here: www.kmbc.com
by Karen Yancey/Staff 8:34 AM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bzX3TdjE
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« Reply #885 on: October 27, 2011, 10:20:50 AM »

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29601540/detail.html
Tina Porter Offers Support To Baby Lisa's Parents
Porter's Children Disappeared In 2004
POSTED: 8:10 am CDT October 27, 2011
UPDATED: 8:30 am CDT October 27, 2011


Video at link.
Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29601540/detail.html#ixzz1bzXu5ooh
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« Reply #886 on: October 27, 2011, 10:23:26 AM »

Breaking news ... attorney Cyndy Short has called off a scheduled media tour today of the missing baby's home. Read more here: www.kmbc.com
by Karen Yancey/Staff 9:18 AM
Breaking news ... attorney Cyndy Short has called off a scheduled media tour today of the missing baby's home. Read more here: www.kmbc.com
by Karen Yancey/Staff 9:18 AM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bzYUqEq9


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« Reply #887 on: October 27, 2011, 10:24:52 AM »


Breaking news ... attorney Cyndy Short has called off a scheduled media tour today of the missing baby's home. Read more here: www.kmbc.com

by Karen Yancey/Staff 9:18 AM


Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bzZ2glIy
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« Reply #888 on: October 27, 2011, 10:25:26 AM »

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29601799/detail.html
Attorney Calls Off Media Tour Of Missing Baby's Home
Lisa Irwin Reported Missing From Home On North Lister Oct. 4
POSTED: 8:40 am CDT October 27, 2011
UPDATED: 9:07 am CDT October 27, 2011

 ::snipping2::
"The last few weeks have been exhausting to everyone working on behalf of the Irwin family, it has exhausted Lisa's parents and her friends and family," attorney Cyndy Short said a news release. "The consensus is we call need a rest until next week."


Short issued the news release about 9 a.m. The tour of the home had been scheduled for 11 a.m

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29601799/detail.html#ixzz1bzZ9X200

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« Reply #889 on: October 27, 2011, 10:29:06 AM »

Katie_Ferrell Katie Ferrell
Irwin Attorney Cyndy Short: "all appointments in Kansas City today and tomorrow are being postponed until next week."
33 seconds ago
Katie Ferrell
Katie_Ferrell Katie Ferrell
Irwin Family Attorney cancels ALL media events now through the weekend-includes planned tour w/local media of Irwin home...more to come.
2 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/Katie_Ferrell
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« Reply #890 on: October 27, 2011, 10:29:59 AM »


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« Reply #891 on: October 27, 2011, 10:30:56 AM »

Katie_Ferrell Katie Ferrell
Short: "The last few weeks have been exhausting to everyone working on behalf of the Irwin family, it has exhausted Lisa's parents..."
34 seconds ago http://twitter.com/#!/Katie_Ferrell
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« Reply #892 on: October 27, 2011, 10:35:28 AM »

Does this mean the brothers won't be interviewed?
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« Reply #893 on: October 27, 2011, 10:39:58 AM »

A new flyer is released by the attorney representing baby Lisa's parents.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com 9:21 AM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bzcjU6Ja
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« Reply #894 on: October 27, 2011, 10:47:41 AM »

Does this mean the brothers won't be interviewed?

   That's an interesting question trimmy.  I wonder if we can get the answer somewhere, sometime soon? 


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« Reply #895 on: October 27, 2011, 10:53:50 AM »

Does this mean the brothers won't be interviewed?

   That's an interesting question trimmy.  I wonder if we can get the answer somewhere, sometime soon? 



I sure hope so. 
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« Reply #896 on: October 27, 2011, 11:10:00 AM »

Not-so-random comments:

Re: Clothing
How many purple pairs of shorts do the little girls you know own? My daughter has at least 3 or 4 now, at age 9. As an infant and a toddler, though, pretty much all her clothes were pink, purple, or some combination thereof... especially since my three older children were boys! It'd be more unusual if there were no purple shorts still in the home. Same thing for the shirt.

Re: the person walking vidoo
Pretty much can't see a darn thing in it, and about all that can be said for sure is that the person probably isn't wearing a really dark color. Reflection can make non-white clothing look white. I'm curious what the 15-30 seconds just PRIOR to the released clip shows. If it showed someone on the sidewalk, well then, they'd have been on the sidewalk. But because they didn't release that portion of the video, I'm inclined to think that portion doesn't show someone walking through it - which would imply that the person came out of the grassy or wooded area. Has that woods been search yet? Seems like it should be, pronto. Because, if this *was* the same person seen carrying a baby, and at this point they weren't - well, that's a mighty convenient hiding place.

Re: the alcohol
Seriously, people. The recommendation to stay below the legal limit is that a person drink no more than one drink per hour. If the mom had five drinks during those four or so hours, that's quite possibly not even going to make her tipsy, let alone drunk, especially since she's obviously not stick-thin, and she apparently ate dinner during that time period also. Even if she'd drank the entire ten drinks during that four hour period, it's entirely possibly she'd register right near the legal limit. That's NOT anything close to stumbling drunk. It IS however, highly likely that she felt somewhat tipsy at that point, and that yes, would answer that as "being drunk"... especially with the way it was phrased in the interview. Was she totally out of it? Probably nowhere near. Is falling asleep and sleeping heavily "passing out from being drunk"? No, I wouldn't say so... no more than I'd say falling asleep after taking Tylenol PM would be. (And that stuff leaves me groggy for a solid 24 hours after taking one dose, and I literally cannot wake up for a good six-eight hours after taking it.)

Re: Interviewing the parents
Let me guess - the cops want the parents interviewed separately, without attorneys to advise them, in hopes of bullying one of them into confessing, regardless of whether or not there is anything to confess? Even if the parents were dumb enough to agree to that, I sure as heck hope their attorneys would prevent it! I certainly wouldn't comply with that.

Also, if LE had previously been verbally abusive during the initial interview, I can certainly understand why they would be disinclined to repeat the experience.

Also, now that I think about it - say she was as over-the-top drunk as some of you think. If she was, she still would have been incapacitated during that first interview that was immediately after the baby was reported missing. It's been said multiple times now, that interview started less than an hour after the baby was reported missing, and that LE was accusing her almost immediately.

So, had she been sloppy drunk that night, #1, she still would have been during that interview, and if she were guilty, it's very likely she would have already confessed at that point. Yet another reason I don't think she was as "drunk" as some of you think. (And if she wasn't sloppy drunk, then you've lost your reason for the assumption that she's a bad mother.)

Also, #2, it would have been VERY OBVIOUS to the police that she was still inebriated. I doubt the whole early situation would have played out the way it did had she been. She likely would have sat and sobered up in the drunk tank.

Because, #3 - anything she said at that point, while incapacitated, would have been invalid, because she would have been too drunk to understand the Miranda warning. And since they clearly didn't feel the need to wait til she sobered up, that's a pretty good sign that she wasn't drunk.

Re: Interviewing the kids
It ought to be pretty darn obvious what the DNA is for - that they'd want to rule out the boys' DNA from whatever samples they picked up in the house. No way in hell I'd let someone interview my children without be extremely cautious about the circumstances - while people trained to do that are better than otherwise, it's still a very hit-and-miss situation, and it can do a significant amount of damage to the psyche of a child. I've seen the damage done by so-called "safe interviews" to kids that my in-laws foster care for. The foster care system is largely an out-of-the-frying-pan, into-the-fire sort of mess.

Acceptable interview length is 5 minutes per year of age. Those initial interviews were ALREADY LONGER THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Re: body language in the picture where she's leaning on him
How is that unusual body language? My guy is totally reserved in public. Around people he doesn't know, he isn't a smiling, effusive person. Public displays of affection are not his thing - he just figures it isn't everyone else's business.

This positioning would be (and has been in the past) perfectly normal for me and my guy during a time of high stress. We've been to enough funerals and hospital bedsides this year - I know. Even though he's reserved when out in public - at home, he's the sweetest, kindest, most honest guy I've known - and by far the most affectionate. Compared to my ex, he's a treasure.

What I see in that picture? She's leaning on him for support, and he's allowing it. He's not manhandling her - they're out in public. Her head is tucked under his chin. He can't fix things and make them right, even though he'd like to. He's giving her emotional support - actually, I'd say strength - to get through this.

re: in summary
Honestly, she's got more tolerance than I do. Had some officer been accusing me of making one of my kids go missing when I had nothing to do with it, I think I'd have probably serious considered offering to kick their ass. And I'm doubtful I'd have been in any condition to think clearly enough to prevent myself. I'm certain I would have been pretty darn angry if they were harassing me instead of just finding my child.

And really, "force" them to talk? I can't believe 1) some of you think that's legal, and 2) others of you think it ought to be.

And one more thing. It'd be nice if people would be less like name-calling brats and more like the adults we supposedly are. It's gotten old. And these threads would be half as long without the chaff to wade through!

Starshadow, I agree with every one of your well-though-out points.  I do, however feel that had Deborah not been drinking to excess the odds that Lisa would still be at home, happy and healthy, would be greater.  While I used to drink an occasional glass of wine, I no longer do and have never had too many drinks.  Would Deborah still be under the influence at the time she took the polygraph, assuming she actually did drink as much as she said?  And too, the only detail we have about the polygraph is what Deborah said LE said to her  as, as far as I know, LE has never publicly commented on it.  Maybe it was just a ploy to get her to confess?  I believe that LE is under no obligation to be truthful when interviewing a person they suspect of committing a crime, or actually anyone else for that matter. 

Were I Deborah or Jeremy, I would not  say one word to the police at this point. And, of course, under no circumstances could I be forced to do so as you also point out. To me, the mere fact that they are willing to again speak to LE, but different detectives, could be a sign of innocence, or it could just be a new strategy.  I understand that they feel they have been mistreated by the detectives who have heretofore questioned them and it sounds to me as if they were. While LE might be doing the best they can, they have achieved no success in finding the baby and IMO they are so determined to arrest Deborah, they might not be doing the best job they could. That's just a personal observance and certainly I could be wrong. 

I think that their attorneys should arrange to have privately adminstrated polygraphs, if they are convinced of their innocence, and if they pass them, to scream to high heaven that they did.  If they don't pass them, keep their clients away from talking to LE.  Maybe they've already done it.  But IMO their clients should not be talking to police at this point anyway.  And even though it would sway public opinion against them, it could hardly be worse than it is.  No harm, no foul. I don't think anything they say at this point would be helpful in recovering their child.  They have probably told LE everything they know and anything further would not be in their best interests and probably not of help to their baby, either, as it would just give LE more fodder to accuse them.

I try to keep in mind that these are real people and not just characters on an episode of "Murder She Wrote," or some such detective TV show.  They can be victims or they can be perpetrators.  But they are real, flesh and blood people and not ficticious words on a piece of paper.

 "If you prick us, do we not bleed?  If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?"  --Shakespeare

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« Reply #897 on: October 27, 2011, 11:11:33 AM »

I understand the parents being reluctant to allow the boys to be interviewed especially if it is true about LE blaming Deborah w/in an hour of her interview but it's not LE doing the interview and they want to find Lisa right?

Why have media and others touring thru that house?  Why not perserve the scene if they claim someone came in and took the baby?

Why not be interviewed by LE?  They are welcome to not answer any question they are uncomfortable with and to get up and leave at any time during the interview...right?

Just some of my random questions.
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« Reply #898 on: October 27, 2011, 11:22:25 AM »

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/27/3232130/parents-lawyers-cancel-media-events.html#ixzz1bzmLkCj3
Posted on Thu, Oct. 27, 2011 10:09 AM

By GLENN E. RICE
The attorney for the parents of missing 11-month-old Lisa Irwin have canceled a scheduled media tour of the couple’s Northland home as well as a press conference slated for this afternoon.

“The last few weeks have been exhausting to everyone working on behalf of the Irwin family, it has exhausted Lisa’s parents and her friends and family,” said attorney Cynthia L. Short in a written statement.

“Therefore, the consensus is we all need a rest, until next week all media, therefore all appointments in Kansas City today and tomorrow are being postponed until next weeks,” Short said in a released issued just before 9 a.m.

Short said the interviews of Lisa’s brothers by child experts will go on as planned.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/27/3232130/parents-lawyers-cancel-media-events.html#ixzz1bznJ8ED8

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« Reply #899 on: October 27, 2011, 11:30:19 AM »

I understand the parents being reluctant to allow the boys to be interviewed especially if it is true about LE blaming Deborah w/in an hour of her interview but it's not LE doing the interview and they want to find Lisa right?

Why have media and others touring thru that house?  Why not perserve the scene if they claim someone came in and took the baby?

Why not be interviewed by LE?  They are welcome to not answer any question they are uncomfortable with and to get up and leave at any time during the interview...right?

Just some of my random questions.

I totally agree with your questions.  How do the parents know that what the questions are?  Perhaps they have a name, a picture of someone - That is possible.  Perhaps LE has something they need cleared up so they can proceed - as far as something found in the house.  LE has not just been sitting there waiting on the parents to come talk to them.  They have been collecting evidence, following leads etc.

By the parents not interviewing, yes it does look bad on their part.  Deborah said she'd take bullets to find Lisa.  She's NOT taking those bullets (as in talking to LE)

Also, IMO, DB & JI using an excuse of being accused within the first hour of the investigation - I say it shouldn't be a surprise.  Statistics show the majority of the time it is the family/parent/parents who have committed the crime.  LE was trying to FIND LISA.  Do you think they cared if they hurt someone's feelings?  So what if they talked roughly to you.  Your sick baby is missing, think about LISA.  The rest can be sorted out later - that is IF you have nothing to hide.
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