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Author Topic: Lisa Irwin #4 10/21/11 - 10/27/11  (Read 423330 times)
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Pattianne
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« Reply #340 on: October 23, 2011, 02:22:57 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/baby-lisa-irwin-search-continues-14795707
Baby Lisa Irwin Search Continues
Former FBI Profiler Brad Garrett breaks down the new developments.
02:27 | 10/23/2011



Good Morning...


I have been reading but not posting..my thoughts....Could one of the boys dropped Lisa when Mom was outside and the boys panicked   and did not tell the mom and she found Lisa deceased..could that be why the boys will not be allowed to be questioned...I am curious if the boys are in school and are telling anything to school counselors.

That's a possibility I guess but I still want the boys re-interviewed because there is a little baby here who is either missing or dead.  I've been trying to get information about the rights of the police and the parents and it seems like it varies from state to state.  Here's a link that I've found so far but I'll keep looking for Missouri specifically.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060612032130AABjJTl

"Police can detain witnesses including minors. In most states minors are considered children under 16. Minors can be questioned and detained for a "reasonable amount of time." Police can not take confessions from minors to crimes without a parents knowledge or consent but as long as the minor is not a suspect he/she can be detained, questioned, asked to give statements and probed for information about a crime."
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cw618
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« Reply #341 on: October 23, 2011, 02:26:43 PM »

catching up and not sure if anyone has put up the map for where the gas station is
im glad somethings you can always recognize,its a bp station on the corner of
parvin and N brighton,that captured the vid

looking at bp
http://g.co/maps/bz9qe

turned around looking across from bp
http://g.co/maps/4jx8s

woods lower RH side
http://g.co/maps/u32k8

overview of home-green arrow below A,A is the bp, at 48th a little up/N is the
4am bike guy sighting,if you zoom in,the pk is called,hidden valley pk,looks
like a long pk way
http://g.co/maps/wjeak

captured the vid
http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
stayhomemommy
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« Reply #342 on: October 23, 2011, 02:26:54 PM »

One of the things Im wondering bout is maybe the reason DB doesnt want the investigators to question the 2 boys is maybe because she is afraid that since this has all came out about "her drinking and pill taking" if maybe now the police might question the 2 boys about their life in that home in the previous years, maybe when they questioned the boys to begin with they probably just asked about the night in question when baby Lisa first came up missing, but now they would probably ask about how their lives have been all along, "did their Mother drink every night" how many times did they find her passed out in different places in the home, " how many times did they wake up and hear the baby crying in her crib and the Mother still asleep and they had to care for the baby......stuff like that.......then the other 2 boys would probably be removed from their care also, there is some reason she doesnt want them talking anymore with LE.......I believe that something did happen to Lise that night or day at that home and even if the boys didnt see anything they still could shed light on their everyday life there with DB........

Could be. Makes sense. So, then my question becomes, "Why can't Child Protective Services go in and question the boys? Isn't their "reasonable cause"?
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Yoder1
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« Reply #343 on: October 23, 2011, 02:27:21 PM »

Finding out DB had anxiety attacks and meds for same, I am now wondering if their had been some sort of unpleasantness the day before at grandparents house, birthday, when "happy" photos were taken. Could something have been said to set off DB and it escalated into the following day's "Lisa disappears."

Also, the photo of dad JI, holding Lisa in kitchen; he is obviously thrilled at having this baby. More emotion shown in that photo than at any or all the time since her disappearance.

Anyone else notice the clear counters and stove top? How do you do that with a family of five, one of whom is an infant?
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Pattianne
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« Reply #344 on: October 23, 2011, 02:33:31 PM »

One of the things Im wondering bout is maybe the reason DB doesnt want the investigators to question the 2 boys is maybe because she is afraid that since this has all came out about "her drinking and pill taking" if maybe now the police might question the 2 boys about their life in that home in the previous years, maybe when they questioned the boys to begin with they probably just asked about the night in question when baby Lisa first came up missing, but now they would probably ask about how their lives have been all along, "did their Mother drink every night" how many times did they find her passed out in different places in the home, " how many times did they wake up and hear the baby crying in her crib and the Mother still asleep and they had to care for the baby......stuff like that.......then the other 2 boys would probably be removed from their care also, there is some reason she doesnt want them talking anymore with LE.......I believe that something did happen to Lise that night or day at that home and even if the boys didnt see anything they still could shed light on their everyday life there with DB........



Could be. Makes sense. So, then my question becomes, "Why can't Child Protective Services go in and question the boys? Isn't their "reasonable cause"?
It's complicated because I can't find anything specific to Missouri.  This is very interesting though -

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_police_question_a_12-year-old_about_their_possible_involvement_in_a_crime_with_a_parent_being_present


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cw618
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« Reply #345 on: October 23, 2011, 02:36:48 PM »

It's very possible that the carpet taken by LE was actually a rug - as in 4 x 5, 8 x 19, etc.  If from the parents' bedroom, it could have been placed by the parents at some point in time over pre-existing wall to wall. 



if we are talking about that,grayish blueish,looking carpet,i dont think they took it,it looked
like it was rolled out in the drive,then they rolled it up and took it to the back of house,i think
it was a room carpet too,and prob that size,and it may have not been from the Ps Bdr
so maybe the scent was in the wall to wall carpet, anyone know where that footage is
seems like a csi carried out a bag that looked like it had a piece of rug in it
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
trimmonthelake
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« Reply #346 on: October 23, 2011, 02:42:20 PM »

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::
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~ Peter Frampton
Fanta
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...woops there goessss another banana tree...


« Reply #347 on: October 23, 2011, 02:43:48 PM »

Finding out DB had anxiety attacks and meds for same, I am now wondering if their had been some sort of unpleasantness the day before at grandparents house, birthday, when "happy" photos were taken. Could something have been said to set off DB and it escalated into the following day's "Lisa disappears."

Also, the photo of dad JI, holding Lisa in kitchen; he is obviously thrilled at having this baby. More emotion shown in that photo than at any or all the time since her disappearance.

Anyone else notice the clear counters and stove top? How do you do that with a family of five, one of whom is an infant?

Very good point.  Some of us know all to well what can happen when we put all our relatives together in one place on a 'happy day'...  Oh the horrors!

~ fanta
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Fanta
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...woops there goessss another banana tree...


« Reply #348 on: October 23, 2011, 02:47:47 PM »

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

It reads:

Quote
On October 17th, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive ‘hit’ for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley’s bedroom near the bed.

We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
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higherhopes
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« Reply #349 on: October 23, 2011, 02:50:31 PM »

Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::
[/quote]

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

It reads:

Quote
On October 17th, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive ‘hit’ for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley’s bedroom near the bed.

We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
[/quote]exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
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I don't know, I was at work....I don't know, I was sleeping........Where is Haleigh???????
cw618
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« Reply #350 on: October 23, 2011, 02:54:03 PM »

Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

It reads:

Quote
On October 17th, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive ‘hit’ for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley’s bedroom near the bed.

We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
[/quote]exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
[/quote]

since its not carpet,pretty dumb to leave that behind and in your Bdr to boot
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goodmorn,goodnite, got to go, as always its been wonderful, talking with you, and most of all have a great day, and dont forget to smile
Yoder1
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« Reply #351 on: October 23, 2011, 02:56:17 PM »

One of the things Im wondering bout is maybe the reason DB doesnt want the investigators to question the 2 boys is maybe because she is afraid that since this has all came out about "her drinking and pill taking" if maybe now the police might question the 2 boys about their life in that home in the previous years, maybe when they questioned the boys to begin with they probably just asked about the night in question when baby Lisa first came up missing, but now they would probably ask about how their lives have been all along, "did their Mother drink every night" how many times did they find her passed out in different places in the home, " how many times did they wake up and hear the baby crying in her crib and the Mother still asleep and they had to care for the baby......stuff like that.......then the other 2 boys would probably be removed from their care also, there is some reason she doesnt want them talking anymore with LE.......I believe that something did happen to Lise that night or day at that home and even if the boys didnt see anything they still could shed light on their everyday life there with DB........



Could be. Makes sense. So, then my question becomes, "Why can't Child Protective Services go in and question the boys? Isn't their "reasonable cause"?
It's complicated because I can't find anything specific to Missouri.  This is very interesting though -

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_police_question_a_12-year-old_about_their_possible_involvement_in_a_crime_with_a_parent_being_present






The court, in Missouri, can appoint guardian ad litim's for the two boys and then have the boys questioned.

On the side.  If DB was the one in the military and not hubby, she could be brought up on charges of adultery and dealt with. As she only continues as a dependent of military personnel, she still can be dealt with IF she continues to receive government benefits.
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Yoder1
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« Reply #352 on: October 23, 2011, 03:00:14 PM »

Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::

Something to toss out here.

Go back to the perfect wording of that information found here:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

It reads:

Quote
On October 17th, 2011 an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of Irwin and Bradley. The cadaver dog indicated a positive ‘hit’ for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley’s bedroom near the bed.

We're talking about the wording of a seasoned cop right?  If she meant 'carpet' I believe she would have said so. 

The wording above can be interpreted as something 'near' the bed - like anything on the list of items taken from the house.

Just sayin'.

~ fanta
exactly, the dogs could have picked up the scent from a blanket that was lying on the floor of the bedroom by the parents bed or on any clothing that was lying there!
[/quote]

since its not carpet,pretty dumb to leave that behind and in your Bdr to boot
[/quote]




Very good point. There is so much material to cover so quickly. Something pops on this case, almost daily. Glad you caught this.
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Yoder1
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« Reply #353 on: October 23, 2011, 03:05:32 PM »

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
Items listed in the search warrant return indicated police took a comforter, two pieces of baby clothing, a toy, a "Cars" themed blanket, rolls of tape, a tape dispenser and a large roll of carpet which Short said didn't even come from inside the house like everyone presumed.

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house," said Short.

 ::snipping2::




Comforter, clothes and car themed blanket could have come from the floor in DB's bedroom. Those items could have ORIGINALLY come from Lisa's bedroom.

Multiple rolls of tape and dispenser. God, I hope it wasn't duct tape.
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klaasend
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« Reply #354 on: October 23, 2011, 03:06:08 PM »

SHORT - Is a defense attorney.  Personally I don't believe a word she says.
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trimmonthelake
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« Reply #355 on: October 23, 2011, 03:06:53 PM »

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
"When you are in crisis and one of the things that is withheld from you is information, it is devastating," said Short.  "They are on a roller coaster. They are doing the best they can and holding out hope. They love this little girl. They really did. And she was a precious little girl. So they are just hanging on doing the best they can.  And people are surrounding them and supporting them."
 ::snipping2::

Speaking in past tense........


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  ~241~ "The Longer You Love,The Longer You Live,The Stronger You Feel,The More You Can Give."
~ Peter Frampton
trimmonthelake
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« Reply #356 on: October 23, 2011, 03:07:29 PM »

SHORT - Is a defense attorney.  Personally I don't believe a word she says.
I don't either.
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  ~241~ "The Longer You Love,The Longer You Live,The Stronger You Feel,The More You Can Give."
~ Peter Frampton
higherhopes
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« Reply #357 on: October 23, 2011, 03:16:52 PM »

SHORT - Is a defense attorney.  Personally I don't believe a word she says.
I don't either.
make that a "me either" .....defense  attorney............its in their job description to lie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nope.....dont believe a word she says!
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KittyMom
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Borgman


« Reply #358 on: October 23, 2011, 03:35:08 PM »

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-we-might-not-get-the-happy-ending-that-we-want
 ::snipping2::
"When you are in crisis and one of the things that is withheld from you is information, it is devastating," said Short.  "They are on a roller coaster. They are doing the best they can and holding out hope. They love this little girl. They really did. And she was a precious little girl. So they are just hanging on doing the best they can.  And people are surrounding them and supporting them."
 ::snipping2::

Speaking in past tense........



Never a good sign from family or family's atty.  They know this baby is deceased.
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Yoder1
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« Reply #359 on: October 23, 2011, 03:36:11 PM »

Fanta - you are correct.  Found the other photo you were referring to (thanks to Crankercrankerson's album).  Can't tell what meds they are but I see at least 3 bottles.  That said the meds could also be for Jeremy or the boys:





Yes surely they could be for the others - but that's what I'd like to know. 

Are they for Lisa?  Does she have a medical condition we've not been told about?

How many pills are left in each bottle - does it coincide with the refill date.

Are these prescriptions filled out to other people not in the house?  (Meaning someone else might have been staying there)???

SO MANY QUESTIONS those little bottle raise!  Smile

~ fanta


As bottles were obviously not there after the search, I am wondering if DB and JI took them with them when they fled to the relatives house to stay. It is possible that LE never had them, although Lisa and DB's medical records were made available to LE.
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