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MuffyBee
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 12:00:48 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2011-11-07/david-stern-labor-deal-deadline/51116942/1
Details of NBA's next proposal to players revealed
November 8, 2011

The last meeting between the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association ended early Sunday when the players found the offer on the table "unacceptable," as union president Derek Fisher said.
But the NBA's next offer to end the 131-day lockout will be worse, and Commissioner David Stern made sure the players knew it in a letter Monday that detailed what would happen if they don't agree to the current deal by 5 p.m. ET Wednesday.
Basketball-related income (BRI) would drop from a 50-50 split to 47% for players (more than $300 million less than they made last season), with a hard salary cap and no exceptions to exceed it, the so-called flex cap. It would be identical to an offer made earlier in negotiations, said a person with knowledge of the reset proposal who requested anonymity because he is not authorized to go public.

The New York Times first reported details of the reset proposal, which would also have:

• A rollback in existing salaries.
• The mid-level exception for $3 million annually and a maximum of three years, from $5 million and four or three years.
• Limits on maximum salaries based on years of service.
• Reduced contract lengths of four years for players with Larry Bird rights (which allows a team to exceed the salary cap to sign its own free agent) and three years for others, with teams possessing the ability to sign one player for five years.
Beyond the 50-50 split of BRI in the current offer, there is an aggressive luxury tax, limits on the mid-level exception (especially for taxpaying clubs) and restricted use of sign-and-trade deals — reduced contract lengths and lower annual raises.
"We think there's a great offer on the table," Stern said Monday on ESPN. "And what we've told the players is it's getting late, the only rational thing to do is make that deal. … It'll get worse from there."
Side by side, the 50-50 offer is better, but still not to the union's liking. The offer "is just not a fair deal," NBPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler said. "It's not a fair deal for players today. It's not a fair deal for players tomorrow."
The NBPA executive committee had a conference call Monday and is expected to meet with all team player representatives today in New York. NBPA vice president Roger Mason Jr. told Newsday "there will be no vote" on the NBA offer. A person familiar with the NBPA, requesting anonymity because he wasn't authorized to go public, said the union can't bring players what it sees as as a bad deal.
 ::snipping2::
No meeting is set between the NBA and NBPA, and Stern's words are clear, but it is possible the sides meet before Wednesday's deadline. And if there is no deal by then? The NBA will likely be forced to cancel games in December, and the union will have to re-evaluate its options, including decertification.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 12:03:06 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2011-11-06/Timeline-to-an-NBA-lockout-and-loss-of-games/51116454/1
Timeline to an NBA lockout and loss of games
November 8, 2011
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 12:04:11 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2011-11-06/A-fans-guide-to-the-NBA-lockout/51098590/1
Fan's guide to the NBA lockout: what we know, what we don't
November 8, 2011
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 12:05:43 PM »

I just don't think there's much hope for an NBA season any time soon.   
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 07:58:17 PM »

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/11/nba-players-reject-owners-offer.html
NBA players reject owners' offer
November 8, 2011

After a meeting with team representatives, the NBA players’ association on Tuesday rejected the league's latest contract offer.

After a 4 ½-hour meeting with 43 players and 29 of the 30 union representatives from NBA teams, players union President Derek Fisher and union Executive Director Billy Hunter said they had been given clear orders.

“Right now, the current offer that’s on the table from the NBA is not one that we can accept,” Fisher said in a news conference in New York.

Fisher and Hunter said they also were ordered to continue negotiating with NBA owners. Hunter said he would reach out to NBA Commissioner David Stern Tuesday night or Wednesday to see if they can set up a meeting.

Stern had given the players an ultimatum to accept the owners’ latest contract proposal by the close of business Wednesday or risk getting a weaker deal.

Fisher said they want to continue negotiating over the proposed split of basketball-related income. The players are seeking about 51% of the BRI, while Stern has offered about a 50% split.

However, Hunter said there are several other key issues to be resolved, including sign-and-trade restrictions by teams and the luxury tax penalty teams would pay for signing players.

“Without those improvements in the system, we don’t see a way of getting a deal done between now and the end of business tomorrow evening,” Fisher said.

Hunter said he'd heard through the “underground” that the NBA is considering canceling games through Christmas if no deal is reached by Wednesday. The NBA has already canceled games through November 30.

Hunter also said there was “very little discussion” Tuesday about possible union decertification.
::snipping2::
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 12:21:03 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2011-11-09/NBA-and-union-meet-today-before-league-offer-worsens/51136294/1
NBA, players meet one last time before offer worsens
November 9, 2011

Facing a 5 p.m. ET deadline today before the NBA's contract offer worsens to the players, both sides have agreed to meet one more time, according to a person with knowledge of the talks who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to go public.
NBA Commissioner David Stern and the league's labor relations committee will meet with National Basketball Players Association executive director Billy Hunter, president Derek Fisher and the union's executive committee in New York.

The sides seem to have accepted the 50-50 percentage split on basketball-related income but remain divided on the system to deliver that money to the players.
 ::snipping2::
But if they don't come to an agreement by the 5 p.m. deadline, Stern has said the offer drops to a 53-47 split of revenues in the owners' favor, and such "system" issues as a firm hard salary cap.
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 12:23:20 PM »

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7211473/nba-lockout-owners-players-meet-1-pm-sources-say
Sources: NBA labor meeting at 1 p.m.
November 1, 2011

A meeting Wednesday between the NBA's owners and its locked-out players is scheduled for 1 p.m. ET in New York, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard. Logistics for the meeting currently are being worked out.

The NBA Players Association rejected the league's latest labor proposal Tuesday but had asked for one more bargaining session before a 5 p.m. ET deadline Wednesday that, according to commissioner David Stern, will cause the offer to vanish if there's no agreement.
Wednesday is the 132nd day of the second lockout in NBA history to bleed into the regular season.
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 05:51:40 PM »

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-nba-players-owners-working-overtime-to-end-lockout-20111110,0,2636396.story
NBA players, owners working overtime to end lockout
November 10, 2011

NEW YORK — NBA owners and players are meeting again Thursday, hoping to reach a deal to end the lockout and very aware of the consequences if they fail.

The sides met for 12 hours Wednesday, passing Commissioner David Stern's deadline for players to accept the league's current proposal or face one that would be much worse. He said he "stopped the clock" while this round of negotiations continues but warned the harsher proposal will be put into play if talks break down
The two sides are meeting again in small groups, working to try to find a way to save the season.

On Wednesday, they talked mostly about the salary cap system issues that divide them and did not even discuss the division of basketball-related income, which is the other major obstacle. Owners are calling for a 50-50 split, which the players would consider if they get the concessions they seek on the system.

The league, however, repeatedly has said it must have both in the next collective bargaining agreement.

"The competitive issues are independent of the economic issues. Our goal is to have a system in which all 30 teams are competing for championships and if well managed, they have an opportunity to break even or make a profit," Deputy Commissioner Adam Silver said. "So we don't see the ability to break even or make a profit as a trade-off for the ability to field a competitive team. So all those issues are still in play."

Those issues largely relate to the spending rules for teams over the luxury tax threshold. The NBA has sought to ban or reduce their ability to use the midlevel exception or participate in sign-and-trade deals, as well as impose a more punitive tax that players fear would deter teams from spending so much that it would act like a hard salary cap.

Union president Derek Fisher said after Wednesday's talks that he couldn't "characterize whether (owners) showed flexibility or not in certain system issues."

"Obviously, we'd have a deal done if the right flexibility was being shown," he said. "The fact that we don't have a deal lets you know that there's still a lot of work to be done on the system."

Failure to make a deal Thursday would increase the calls for the union to decertify so the players can file a lawsuit against the league in court, a risky and lengthy tactic that likely would doom the 2011-12 season. Union officials have downplayed the idea, but players might have no other leverage once the more severe proposal is put into play.

The current offer calls for players to receive between 49 percent and 51 percent of basketball-related income, though the union said it would be impossible to get above 50.2 percent. Players were guaranteed 57 percent of BRI under the previous collective bargaining agreement.

Though they called this deal unacceptable, they might not see another one nearly as favorable.

The next proposal would call for a 53-47 revenue split in the owners' favor, essentially a hard salary cap and salary rollbacks, which the league originally sought but had taken off the table. Both proposals were sent to Hunter on Sunday.

Players indicated after a player representative meeting Tuesday that they would be open to reducing their BRI take if owners made some changes on the system issues. Players offered to go to about 51 percent Saturday, with 1 percent going into a fund for retired player benefits, though their last formal proposal on paper called for a 52.5 split in their favor.
 ::snipping2::
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 07:13:20 PM »



http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/nba-talks-continue-sterns-deadline-hold-14924935#.TrxnBXJZrwI
NBA Talks Continue With Stern's Deadline on Hold
November 10, 2011


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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2011, 09:15:20 AM »

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nba-lockout-talks-players-receive-revised-deal-article-1.975999?localLinksEnabled=false
NBA lockout talks end, players receive revised deal
NBA and union are all talk

November 11, 2011

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sharon
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2011, 08:00:42 AM »

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/heatzone/2011/11/11/nba-lockout-update-so-lets-play-72/

NBA Lockout update: So let’s play… 72?
by Ethan J. Skolnick

There is no deal, not yet.

There is, however, a plan.

After two more days of extensive discussions in New York, negotiators for the players and owners remained split on several system issues. Still, while union chief Billy Hunter said the owners’ latest offering was “not the greatest proposal in the world,” at least the players will run by the 30 team reps by Monday or Tuesday. And, at least, if those reps accept, and a majority of the entire player membership follows, fans will get something close to a full season.

That season, according to David Stern, would start on Dec. 15th.

It would be 72 games long, which merely means that Heat players wouldn’t be asked this time around if they can break the Bulls’ all-time wins record. And it means the players would miss only one paycheck as a result of this ordeal.


 ::snipping2::



Of course, the players need to accept it first.

My advice is that they do.

I say that as someone who has generally taken their side, that doesn’t believe that Stern and the good owners have negotiated in good faith, overreaching to satisfy their avarice.

But the players have lacked leverage all along, and especially since they chose not to decertify over the summer. They have lost the P.R. battle. And now they will start losing paychecks.

The offer will not get much better.

The financial losses won’t be recouped, especially if decertification at this late stage costs an entire season.

“I await their response,” Stern said. “We’ve done our best.”

Not for the good of the game he hasn’t.

But, at this point, the best case for all is to get back to work.

Seventy-two doesn’t sound so bad.
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2011, 08:47:16 AM »

Thanks for the update Sharon.  Well, we don't have a definitive answer, but it's sounding like there's still a glimmer of hope there may be some basketball played...!  Are we waiting until Monday or Tuesday and see who blinks? 

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sharon
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2011, 09:08:05 AM »

Good morning Muffybee

I will need to find the article/link later -- but I think that the players have until Tuesday or Wednesday to vote. The recent negotiations (where Stern put the deadline on hold since it was supposed to be last Wednesday) resulted in the union agreeing to take the latest offer to the players for a vote. The 50 - 50 BRI split (which really isn't since the owners already take more than 1/2 million dollars off the top prior to the split) is what is on the table. There's also a bunch of rhetoric on the salary cap -- which I readily admit I do not understand Smile

If this one doesn't pass, it is my opinion that we won't have a bball season this year as Stern and the owners have already threatened that future offers will be increasing worse for the players.

I just want to watch some bball Sad  If they proceed with the 72 game plan, there will be many back to back to back games played, and I hope that doesn't introduce a shortened season full of injuries.

Another side effect for me......I no longer like Michael Jordan Smile
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« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2011, 10:09:31 AM »

I  wouldn't want to see more injuries to the athletes due to back to back games, but I sure would like to see some basket ball too!
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2011, 12:51:31 PM »

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-saturday-the-threat-of-decertification/
NBA Saturday: Threat of Decertification
November 12, 2011

 ::snipping2::
NBA Releases Proposal Details: Twitter has been an excellent tool for following the NBA’s labor talks. Reporters are constantly tweeting updates, players share their opinions on the negotiations and both sides have been able to get their message out directly to fans.

The NBPA and NBA both have Twitter accounts: @TheNBPA and @NBA_Labor.

Last night, the NBA’s account released some of the details of their revised proposal:

    Over last CBA, only 4 sign-and-trades by taxpayers that new rule would have prohibited

    NBA Proposal: Repeat tax rates apply only when team is taxpayer 4 out of 5 yrs (not 3 out of 5)

    NBA Proposal: Players retain full Bird rights

    NBA Proposal: Ability to stretch waived player’s salary frees up more money for teams to spend on FAs

    NBA Proposal: Plyr-friendly changes 4 restricted FAs: qualifying offers higher & 100% guaranteed, shorter match period 4 offer sheets

    NBA Proposal: Increased minimum team salary – from 75% of cap to 90%

    NBA Proposal: Projected max salaries range from $13M to $19M and growing

    NBA Proposal: New trade rules to promote more player movement

    NBA Proposal: Projected tax level ranges from $70M-$85M over next 6 years; more than enough money to keep teams together

    NBA Proposal: More cap exceptions for teams who are not taxpayers…

    Fact: Under prior CBA, only 3 players per season received more than $5M salary using mid-level exception

    NBA Proposal: More mid-levels than 2005 CBA: $5M for non-taxpayers, $3M for taxpayers, $2.5M for room team
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2011, 12:55:30 PM »

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33243170
2012 Naismith Hall of Fame candidates announced
November 12, 2011

 ::snipping2::
Despite the ongoing lockout, NBA.com reports that the pool of candidates for the 2012 Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame has been released.

Some of the biggest names include: Indiana Pacers guard Reggie Miller, Yugoslavian center Vlade Divac, NBA referee Dick Bavetta, former Philadelphia 76ers point guard Maurice Cheeks, long-time coach Don Nelson, 16-year NBA veteran Paul Silas, Golden State Warriors and Miami Heat point guard Tim Hardaway, Indiana Pacers and New York Knicks point guard Mark Jackson, former New York Knicks forward Bernard King, former Houston Rocketse coach Rudy Tomjanovich, WNBA star Rebecca Lobo and Chicago Bulls executive Jerry Krause.

Here's a longer list of nominees.

    Al Attles, John Bach, Dick Bavetta, Maurice Cheeks, Lefty Driesell, Bill Fitch, Cotton Fitzsimmons, Curt Gowdy (contributor category), Tim Hardaway, Spencer Haywood, former NCAA executive Tom Jernstedt (contributor), Mark Jackson, Bernard King, Jerry Krause, Reggie Miller, Dick Motta, Don Nelson, Billy Packer (contributor), Rick Pitino, Paul Silas (as a player), George Raveling (contributor), Mitch Richmond, Ralph Sampson, Eddie Sutton, Rudy Tomjanovich, Gene Shue, Jim Valvano (contributor), Donnie Walsh (contributor), Gary Williams, Paul Westphal (as a player), Jamaal Wilkes.

Naismith Hall of Fame finalists are usually announced during NBA All-Star Weekend, scheduled for February in Orlando, Fla., assuming that the festivities are not killed by the lockout. From there, another round of cuts to finalize the class comes in March.

Given his clear snub last year, Miller seems like the obvious headliner in this year's class. He's the biggest name among former players, has a lengthy track record of contributions on and off the court and provides a touch of star power, a necessary commodity every year. Pairing former teammates Miller and Jackson on the induction list could make sense too.

Divac will almost certainly fill the Arvydas Sabonis role, the biggest name international player whose global contributions to the game are undeniable. Lobo, similarly, would make a nice successor to last year's honoree Teresa Edwards, in terms of her college success and icon status.

After those three, Cheeks, an NBA champion, 4-time All-Star and exceptional two-way player might stand the best chance of induction. Hardaway was a 5-time All-Star and is best remember for his killer crossover, but he never enjoyed the postseason success that we generally associate with Hall of Fame players and he sparked a controversy back in 2007 when he made homophobic comments, which he has since apologized for.

Bavetta, the NBA's record-holder for most games officiated, is a wild-card; he will be surely be inducted at some point and it's just a matter of when, not if. Krause, the architect of the Michael Jordan-led Chicago Bulls dynasty during the 1990s, has reportedly made many enemies among the basketball establishment and his candidacy may suffer for that fact.

The safe money on the 2012 class might be Miller, Jackson, Divac, Lobo, Cheeks and Bavetta plus ABA champion and All-Star George McGinnis representing the now-defunct league.
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2011, 01:26:47 PM »

Thanks Muffybee. Your article supports that the players have until Tuesday afternoon to decide.

This is just too crazy. It is getting uglier and uglier. Per you article, now Stern says if the players vote to 'de-certify' he will nullify all of their contracts. The agents say they will sue if that happens.

I just want to watch basketball. Basketball withdrawal, which starts after the playoffs, is supposed to end by early November.


On a lighter note -- woohoo for Timmy Hardaway Smile  We were in the arena the night they retired his jersey. He's definitely a hall of famer, imo. Of course I may be a tad prejudiced Smile
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2011, 08:25:19 AM »

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45273978/ns/sports-nba/

NEW YORK - Commissioner David Stern blamed "greedy" NBA agents Saturday for trying to scuttle a new labor deal and believes they are trying to push their clients into a "losing strategy" of decertification.

And Stern says neither the threat of that process nor any request from the union will change the league's negotiating position, repeating that there would be no further discussions about the revised proposal it offered Thursday. If players don't accept it, Stern reiterated that he would move to the harsher proposal that is waiting.

Stern is aware of the numerous comments from players criticizing the proposal, and fears they aren't getting the proper information about its contents because agents worry it will cost themselves money.

"By some combination of mendacity and greed, the agents who are looking out for themselves rather than their clients are trying to scuttle the deal," Stern said in a phone interview. "They're engaged in what appears to be an orchestrated Twitter campaign and a series of interviews that are designed to deny the economic realities of the proposal."

Player representatives will meet Monday and decide if they should put it to a vote. The indication Thursday from union leaders was that they weren't impressed with it, and a number of players have since been quoted saying they would shoot down the deal.

Stern said that's because the agents want them to, not because it's a bad offer.


 ::snipping2::

And if Stern were running the meeting Monday, he knows what he would tell the player reps.

"This is our only shot to get a 72-game season starting on Dec 15. Take the deal, let's go back and play basketball," he said.

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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2011, 03:29:15 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/sports/basketball/players-reject-nbas-offer-and-begin-to-disband-union.html
Players Reject N.B.A. Offer and Opt to Disband Union
November 14, 2011

Faced with a deal it could not accept, and a negotiating process that had reached a dead end, the National Basketball Players Association elected to disband Monday afternoon, thrusting the N.B.A. into chaos. The prospect of reviving the 2011-12 season now rests with the courts.
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2011, 03:41:24 PM »

Sad
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