BREAKING NEWS SPECIAL REPORT: Sandusky Guilty on 45 of 48 Counts in Child Sex Abuse Case; Pennsylvania AG Speaks after Sandusky Guilty Verdict
Aired June 22, 2012 - 21:54 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news, we are live. There is a verdict, after a long verdict watch in the case against renowned Sandusky.
I want to thank you for being with us. We are in a verdict watch, after many, many hours of waiting for the Sandusky jury to return, finally, we are getting word there is a verdict.
Despite the power, the privilege, the cover up alleged in this case, has a jury seen through it all in their attempt to reconcile the facts and evidence with the law?
Everything they`ve heard in this courtroom, it has been a painstaking trial. Dozens and dozens of experts, witnesses with testimony that made many of the jurors turn away in disgust. Is there a mistrial? Is there a guilty verdict?
With multiple counts, we are standing by at the courthouse to bring are you the very latest. All of us here at HLN, together, to bring you the verdict. We are going to go straight out to HLN news now anchor, Mike Galanos, joining us live. Mike, how do we know there`s a verdict?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN NEWS ANCHOR: Nancy, it was 15 minutes ago, after 20 hours and 57 minutes of deliberation, we got the word. The verdict is in. The jury has reached a verdict in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse trial.
And Nancy, you have talked about it, the building tension, the building anticipation throughout the day. The jury wanted a read back of victim number two`s story, basically as told through Mike McQuery.
They wanted to hear what he had to say again and what Dr. Drainoff had to say who heard the story from McQueary and had questions as well about victim eight`s story and that is the story where a janitor said he saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the showers.
They wanted to know how they could apply that law as well. Interesting to note, Nancy, those are the two stories we don`t have a victim testimony, we have witness testimony on those two counts.
There are townspeople as far as the eye can see right now waiting with us in anticipation of the verdict in the Jerry Sandusky case.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live at the courthouse, bringing you the latest. We are in a verdict watch. And according to all the sources, a verdict has been rendered. It is just a matter of the judge assembling all the parties in the courtroom.
We are taking you live to the courthouse with the verdict. So many people across the country have been keeping an eye on this courtroom. So many child molestation victims have been watching this trial, victims that have never spoken out before.
With me there at the courthouse, Mike Galanos, HLN news now anchor and now joining me, "In Session" legal correspondent Beth Karas.
Now, Beth is not only a correspondent, but a trial lawyer herself. Beth Karas, I`m concerned about the readbacks, when I first heard about the readbacks of testimony the jury wanted to hear, it made me wonder if there was a juror hung up on those particular counts. Explain.
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION," LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you needn`t worry, Nancy, because the jury zeroed in on if there were weaker counts, arguably the counts related to alleged victims two and eight would be weaker, only because they are unidentified.
And so, those counts were proven by the commonwealth, if the jury believes them, through other witnesses, eyewitnesses. But they don`t know who the little boy was in each case. So the jurors maybe wanted to just hear that testimony again just to satisfy themselves, perhaps that they were making the right decision either way.
GRACE: There are boys ranging from ages 9 to 17 at the time of the incidents. And as tough as it is for many of us to hear the facts, the acts range from simple inappropriate touching of young boys, as young as 9 years old to anal and oral sex testimony ranging from young boys allegedly screaming out during the molestation.
Again, back to simple inappropriate touching, I want to go back to you, Mike Galanos, HLN News Now. What do you think was the crucial testimony in this case, that if that didn`t sway the jury, nothing would?
GALANOS: And that was the strongest point from the prosecution when the closing arguments were given, Nancy, the genuine heartfelt testimony, the heart wrenching testimony in this courthouse behind from these now young men, then young boys who claim they went through these horrific, horrific times with Jerry Sandusky.
You know, Nancy, I had chance to talk you to one of the moms who was in that courtroom when her son testified. You mentioned little boys. She says she saw her son testifying and then looked up and they showed the picture in the courthouse of him as a little boy and she said it was excruciating.
It took this mom back to this innocent little boy and said he looked like a baby to me. He looked like he was 5 years old. That is the power of this case for the prosecution.
GRACE: To all of you out there with ears to listen and children to protect, this is a case that matters. This is a case where the jury must speak for those who could not speak for themselves at the time of these alleged molestations. We are live tonight here at HLN bringing you the verdict in the Sandusky molestation trial.
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live here at HLN tonight, bringing you the very latest there at the Sandusky trial. Take a look this is the scene going down right now.
We have just gotten word from our sources. A verdict has been render in the case against Jerry Sandusky, the famed coach there at Penn State. So far, we don`t have an inkling as to what that verdict going to be.
We know this, the jury has been out for hours and hours. Take a look. We are going to show you that jury clock. How long they have been out, only breaking in for meals and to ask for jury instructions and readbacks of key testimony.
We are live there at the courthouse. I want to go back to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," and we are taking your calls, everybody, on the Sandusky verdict, as we wait for all parties to assemble in the courtroom.
Beth Karas, what would you say was the most wrenching and moving testimony during this trial? If you had to boil it down to one witness that really spoke to you, Beth Karas.
KARAS: Well, he was known as alleged victim number nine. He was the last of the eight victims to testify for the commonwealth. He`s only 18 years old. He just graduated from high school two weeks ago. And he was just pathetic and it was so sad and it was emotional for him.
He had an eye patch over his right eye because of an injury, but it just made him look even more fragile. And when he talked about the same thing we`ve seen with all the other witnesses, the grooming and how he was treated, it was -- it was heartbreaking.
But, Nancy, for him, this happened for years. Almost four years for him. He was really, according to him, brutally raped to the point where he bled and he used to throw his underwear away. And he was forced to perform sex acts on Mr. Sandusky. But Sandusky didn`t touch him in certain areas. Only was forceful with him.
And it was really sad and his mother was the very last witness for the commonwealth. And she said now, she wondered why her son had problems -- he would be sick. He had problems going to the bathroom and he would come home without his underwear, see, he was throwing them away. It was really sad.
GRACE: Beth, as you are recounting that, I am absolutely cringing to hear it. It`s reminding me of all the child molestation cases I prosecute. And it`s easy, Beth, to imagine, oh, this happened to somebody else far away in another state.
When people go home and they look at their own children, it could happen to them, with people that you trust. And when I hear the mother and the guilt she must be suffering, feeling like, why didn`t I know?
KARAS: Yes, you`re absolutely right, Nancy. Because the mother said, he used to tell me he didn`t want to go, but I would tell him go, because, you see, she was raising her son as a working mother with two jobs.
There was no father in his life. And, of course, she thought, wow, this is really great to have this really important man in this community paying attention to her son, taking him in every weekend, and it was Friday to Sunday for years. And those were from about the ages of 12 to 16.
She thought, oh, no, it`s good for you, good for you to be near Jerry Sandusky, a good father figure for him. And she didn`t know that this father figure was molesting and raping her son.
GRACE: You know, Beth, didn`t he testify--
KARAS: This is a child, by the way, who said he screamed -- he screamed for help, knowing Dottie was upstairs and she never came. She never came. She says she didn`t hear it, but he says he screamed for help knowing Dottie was upstairs.
GRACE: Beth, isn`t there testimony that he would give the boys gifts? Now that particular -- now I believe you said he is 18. He was 12 at the time?
KARAS: Well, that`s when it started, 12 to 16, yes, it was 12 to 16. And some of the counts, you know how it can be a higher count or more severe penalty if the victim is under a certain age? And so under -- he was under 13, but the way they charged everything, it was for the victim being under 16, because there`s a range and they can`t be specific on dates. But it started when he was 12.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Tom Kline, Kline the attorney for victim five. Kline attended the entire Sandusky trial, along with him and our panel. We are taking your calls.
Thomas in Virginia, hi, Thomas, what`s your question?
CALLER: Good evening, Nancy. My question is, did the judge give the jury specific instructions as to whether they could find say five out of the 10 victims, you know, Sandusky guilty of molesting five of the 10 victims or say 20 of the 48 charges against him that were carried forward--
GRACE: You mean, can they split the verdict, Thomas? You want to know if the jury can split the verdict?
CALLER: Right. Is that going to be a problem? Could that be a problem?
GRACE: Well, of course, no prosecutor wants to go through all this and get a split verdict. They want the whole enchilada. They want the whole thing. They want guilty on all counts.
But I`m going to go out to Tom Kline, the attorney, a very well-known attorney in his region, attorney for victim number five.
Tom Kline, of course the jury could split the verdict, if they want to, right?
THOMAS KLINE, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM NUMBER FIVE: They certainly can. The jury basically has 10 cases, Nancy, which has 48 counts in it. And that, of course, could mean a mixed verdict. I think that a mixed verdict in this case actually could come down here.
This is the kind of verdict in central Pennsylvania with a central Pennsylvania jury, I think they`ll go through it meticulously, and carefully, and I wouldn`t declare a loss if there were even 24 or 36 counts that he`s found guilty of.
Every one of these counts carries a large penalty in jail. So, yes, there are 10 separate cases and there are 48 counts and this jury apparently went through them meticulously.
We know that because they asked for the read back of the McQueary testimony, and they asked for the read back as well of the janitor`s testimony.
GRACE: OK, guys, this is what we`re going to do very quickly as we wait for all the parties to assemble there in the courthouse. Everybody, we are live waiting for the Jerry Sandusky verdict to be announced in a courtroom. We`ve now confirmed there is a verdict in the Sandusky trial.
With me is the attorney for victim number five. Let`s go through the counts, so we all understand what`s on the table. The acts range from charges of simple inappropriate touching, such as rubbing up against a child`s buttocks or their penis, or anal and oral sex.
Let`s go through the counts. To Beth Karas, it`s my understanding there are nine counts of involuntary deviant sex intercourse, nine counts indecent assault, nine counts unlawful contact with minors, 10 counts corruption of minors, 10 counts endangering the welfare of children, one count criminal attempt to commit indecent assault.
But what it boils down to is indecent touching of a child and anal sex and oral sex of boys ranging from I think it was 9 to 17 years old at the time of the incidents, right?
KARAS: Yes. Well, I don`t know of anyone they know for sure is as young as 9. They charged everyone as under 16 but not under 13, which would have made it even higher, I think like a mandatory 40 years or something, a sentence, if they were under 13.
So while he met a lot of boys at that age, the tender age of 7, 8, 9, 10, it appears that the grooming occurred then, but the sex acts occurred a little bit later.
Nonetheless, you`re right about the list of counts. Some of those are misdemeanors, 22 of those are misdemeanors, and 26 of them are felonies. As Tom Kline just said, a lot of them carry some really heavy time.
So those nine involuntary deviant sexual intercourse charges each carry up to 20 years. Well, most of them do. Some of them have a little bit lighter sentence from an earlier sentencing statute. But it`s heavy time.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Sue Moss, New York. Kirby Clements, former prosecutor now defense attorney, Atlanta. Marla Chicotsky, defense attorney, Miami.
Bottom line, Sue Moss, he thought he was above the law. That these young boys were so overcome, they were so intimidated, they would never tell.
SUE MOSS, ATTORNEY: And that`s what he told them. He said, don`t tell, no one is going to believe you. Instead of Penn State, this guy is going to the penitentiary. That`s because of the absolutely compelling voices from these victims.
For me, the first victim who testified was the most compelling. He spoke and said in front of the jury, he treated me like I was his girlfriend. And I`m sure he looked straight into the eyes of each and every jury member when he made that claim.
They saw the passion, they saw the hurt, they saw the years of denial, everything that these kids have gone through. They listened, they heard, and I know they`re going to come back with a guilty verdict for at least the felonies of the people who we know the victims are.
They may come up with a not guilty for the people -- for the janitor victim, the victim we don`t know the name of, and also the victim that Mike McQueary was involved. But for the rest, it`s going to be guilty.
GRACE: To Mike Galanos, HLN "News Now" anchor, Mike, who was in the courtroom during the trial?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR: Well, I think one of the most powerful pockets of people in that courtroom were the accusers themselves, Nancy. I`m talking about during closing arguments. To walk into the courtroom and see victims one, four, six, and nine, and we`re talking about victims who were specifically mentioned by not only the prosecution, but for the defense, as well.
Because Joe Amendola, the defense attorney, went after these accusers in his closing arguments, talking about number one wanting money. That was one of his statements, that they`re out for a money grab here.
But the prosecutor came back in strong.
Nancy, we`re getting breaking news. It looks like behind me, we`re going to get some word here, but as of right now, you can see the throng of people, Nancy. The whole town is out. They want justice served here.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the live shot there at a Sandusky courthouse. It looks like all hell is breaking loose. The courthouse is mobbed. The judge is keeping a tight rein on what`s going on in the courtroom.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GRACE: We are waiting to report what has happened in the courtroom. There is a ban on us relaying to you what`s happening in the courtroom until the judge allows it. But take a look at what`s going on at the courthouse right now.
We are live at the Sandusky courthouse, bringing you the case. Sandusky, facing a max of 472 years behind bars. This is the scene where justice has unfolded.
Mike Galanos, what`s going on in that courtroom? Hold on, I`m getting the verdict: 45 guilty counts, convicted. Three, not guilty. Guilty of 25 felonies. Guilty of 14 first degree felonies, 442 years max.
Out to you, Mike Galanos.
GALANOS: Nancy, we just got the same word you did. Guilty on 45 of 48 counts. And as that verdict became known to the public here, a cheer came out. You could feel an exhale of a community that they feel justice has been served.
Jerry Sandusky, guilty on 45 of 48 counts against these young boys. He stole the souls of these young boys and now he`s going to pay the price.
GRACE: Jerry Sandusky, all the power, all the privilege, all the fame, has now been found guilty. Major felonies there at the Sandusky trial, 45 guilty counts. Nobody thought it could be done. Nobody believed that a jury would have faith in the testimony of what were then young boys, young boys, Mike Galanos. They were in the courtroom supporting each other, listening to all the testimony from the get-go.
Describe the scene, Galanos.
GALANOS: Nancy, right now -- and Jay, our cameraman, Jay, if you could just show Nancy and our viewers the throng of people that has come out.
Nancy, these people showed up with their lawn chairs and listen to them, Nancy. As these verdicts are read, guilty, 45 of 48 counts. You can hear these people cheering. And they`re not cheering for sport, they`re cheering for justice served, as you mentioned, for little boys who had their souls, their childhood stolen.
And I can only imagine the emotion now from some of these victims. They are no longer alleged victims, they are victims. And now, Nancy, as I can, talking to one of the moms, another step in the healing process is now under way.
GRACE: Joining me right now, in addition to Beth Karas and Mike Galanos, our colleague, Vinnie Politan.
Vinnie Politan, what do you know?
VINNE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Nancy, 45 out of 48, absolute victory for prosecutors here and I think we all can exhale. It was difficult, because we were all there in Orlando, Nancy, last year and you never know what`s going to happen. But here in this courtroom, those survivors, those survivors who testified tonight, Nancy, are getting justice.
GRACE: You know, Vinnie Politan, when I heard the jury wanted read backs of testimony involving some of the key allegations against Sandusky, my heart just sank. I could not believe that a jury was hung up on some of these counts.
And I was so afraid it was going to end in not guilty because they didn`t want to believe these victims or because there may have been a mistrial.
There you see Sandusky, Jerry Sandusky, after all of these years, years and years of raping little boys, he is finally going to jail. And you heard the testimony of one of these mothers, who said her little boy kept saying, mommy, I don`t want to go, I don`t want to go. And she made him go, thinking it was an opportunity for him.
And she couldn`t understand all of his health problems, all of his issues. And now finally, she spoke as the last witness for the state. Sandusky goes to jail.
Back out to you, Vinnie Politan. You heard the testimony. You were there. Weigh in.
POLITAN: This is a big moment, because think about what it took for these survivors to come forward, to come into court and to tell their stories for everyone to hear, for the world to hear, for the jury to hear.
These are things these men never, ever wanted to talk about. And then to have to do it in such a public way, but tonight, you know, they see a result of that and that brings these survivors one step closer in the healing process. It moves things along.
I`ve spoke to so many other survivors, of other abusers out there in Bellefonte. And to a man, each of them said getting up there, facing your accuser -- or facing your abuser becomes an empowering moment, to get into court and say what they said.
And tonight to have the result that they are getting, I`m so happy for these survivors that what this jury said is that, yes, you are a victim, yes, you told the truth, we believe you.
And to have these people believe them beyond any and all reasonable doubt brings them closer to healing, Nancy.
GRACE: I want to go back to Mike Galanos, joining me in addition to Vinnie Politan and now Jean Casarez is joining us there at the courthouse.
Mike, I remember with every child molestation case I tried, I would tell the victim, and they were children, it doesn`t matter what happens, you just know somebody believes you. Somebody believes you, and I think that`s what mattered here. I really do.
GALANOS: Nancy, to go along with what Vinnie said, I`ve had a chance to talk to survivors, survivors who come forward now. And after this, a lot more survivors are going to have the courage to come forward, knowing there are people that believe them, that believe their story, no matter what a predator might say, because so many will tell them, don`t you tell anybody, nobody is going to believe you anyway.
So many of these survivors said that about Jerry Sandusky, that they couldn`t take on this big, powerful man in this community. They couldn`t tell their story because they wouldn`t believe him. Well, they believed them today. They believed them in this courtroom behind me. And now they have justice.
GRACE: You know what? Mike, you couldn`t have said it any more perfectly than you just did. Joining me right now, along with Mike Galanos there at the courthouse, everybody, we are live here at the hour of 10:18 Eastern time with a verdict that has just been handed down in the Sandusky trial, after weeks of testimony and hours and hours, days of deliberation.
Many of us thought the jury would mistry. But they didn`t let down lady justice. A verdict has been handed down. Sandusky convicted on 45 out of 48 crimes, 25 of those are felonies.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, standing by. She`s been in the courtroom from the get-go. Jean Casarez, weight in.
JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV REPORTER: Nancy, I was sitting in that courtroom, and the silence was deafening because we knew there was a verdict and we were waiting. And there was one pew in that courtroom that was empty, and some people tried to sit in it and they moved those people out.
And in came a woman and two younger women, and they sat there. And I said to myself, who are they? Who are they? And all of a sudden, in came victim number six. This is the first young man in 1998 whose mother went to authorities and they didn`t believe him.
He came and he sat and he was so nervous. And as he was looking down. And his mother was so nervous. And as he sat there, and as they started to read the verdict, the foreperson read the verdict, one after the other, his mother just burst into tears.
They were silent tears, but she was holding her son`s hands so tight. And I think that she is so important, because she`s the original one that went to law enforcement. And maybe charges weren`t brought in 1998, but in 2001, when victim one came forward, they said, wait a minute, we had something in `98 and that corroborated number one.
That gave him credibility and that`s one reason why this investigation went forward. And she was in that room tonight. When they got to victim number six, they found indecent assault not guilty for him, his first top charge.
He was welling with tears in his eyes as his own charges rang out. The rest of them were guilty. But you could tell the joy in his family. But still the emotion in him from what he had endured so long ago.
GRACE: You know what, jean? Just hearing you tell me about that, it`s so upsetting to hear after all these years, that was in 1998, his mother brought her little boy to the police station and they tried.
Jean Casarez, prior to the verdict, we were all waiting to find out, is the verdict coming, is the verdict coming? And Jean texted and was emailed, "something is up," because the courtroom is filling up, but there`s a whole row empty and I don`t know what it`s for, but this means something.
This is the first time she had seen that the entire trial. And we knew that someone very important was going to come in and sit in that seat. A very important witness came in, the first victim outcry in the Sandusky trial.
Jean Casarez, I`ve been asking various people that were in the courtroom from the get-go, from the very beginning, what they think is the single most compelling testimony of this trial, and I`ve been waiting to hear your answer, Jean.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I don`t want to select a victim, because they were all compelling in their own right. Every single one of them had a story to tell and their story was emotional and it was real and it was different.
There was a pattern, but there were differences. They were all compelling. I think that one thing that shocks me tonight is that accuser number two, who did not come forward, or who is deceased, we don`t know, Mike McQueary gave such vivid testimony of the position that he was in the showers with who he said was Jerry Sandusky, the jury found not guilty on involuntary deviant sexual intercourse for victim two.
Everything else was guilty for him, but not for that.
GRACE: To -- Jean Casarez, I want to find out exactly what was McQueary`s testimony? Give it to me in a nutshell. What did he observe and who -- tell the viewers, who is McQueary?
CASAREZ: Mike McQueary, he was the defensive graduate assistant coach at that time under Joe Paterno in 2001. He went to the coach`s shower room that night because he wanted to put some sneakers in, do some work. He saw the showers on, heard the showers on, heard sexual noises, heard slapping noises.
He looked, he saw a little boy`s hands facing the wall and on the wall. And he saw a man right behind the little boy with his hands around the waist. And he heard those noises.
He then slammed his locker so hard and he broke it up, he said. And then they came out and they jumped and he saw Jerry Sandusky and he saw a little boy about 10 or 11 years old. That was the testimony of Mike McQueary.
GRACE: And, Jean Casarez, what year was that?
GRACE: And what, if anything, did McQueary do?
CASAREZ: Mike McQueary immediately went to his father and that came out in testimony, because it was an excited utterance. And he said, I heard sexual sounds and I saw Jerry Sandusky and I saw a little boy.
They called a family friend, a physician, who testified for the defense, but testified that Mike was so distraught and he was shaking, this graduate assistant coach, that he could hardly talk, but he said that he heard sexual noises, slapping sounds. And the doctor kept saying, what did you see, what did you see?
And he said Mike clammed up and he just couldn`t say anymore. That was testimony for the defense.
GRACE: Did they go to police?
CASAREZ: He went to Joe Paterno, and Joe Paterno went to a vice president - - two vice presidents of Penn State University. Nobody went to police.
GRACE: Straight out to Cory Giger, host of "Sports Central" at ESPN 1450.
Cory, thank you for being with us. I want to hear your thoughts, Cory.
CORY GIGER, HOST, "SPORTS CENTRAL," ESPN 1450: Nancy, this is just an evil man who founded a charity to help kids, who were from troubled pasts. And what did he do? He preyed on those kids and molested them and he will rot in prison for the rest of his life, he will rot in hell for all of eternity.
And we finally got to see justice. And I`ve been listening to all your guests here talk about all of these children. And that`s what it`s all about, is keeping our minds on these kids whose lives were destroyed by this evil, evil person.
But at least hopefully those children, their families will get some peace out of this with all these guilty verdicts tonight.
GRACE: Straight back to Mike Galanos joining us. He`s there at the courthouse.
I want to hear what happened in the courtroom as the verdict was announced. I want to hear what you know about what happened in the courtroom?
GALANOS: Well, I know we`re getting new word, Nancy, about what is going on with the Sanduskys as they are reeling after this, obviously, holding, hugging as now justice is served. And as Cory just said, Jerry Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life behind bars. That we know.
And, Nancy, I want to share one other thing with you. Right behind me just a couple of minutes ago were two little boys. As I`ve been listening to Jean and recounting and I remember my conversations with the mom I talked to. And I looked at these little guys behind me, and one of them was holding a dog, innocent little boys.
And it brought it back to me, that`s who we`ve been talking about all along, not about numbers, not about victim one, two, or 10, but little boys. That`s who we were talking about. Victimized then, survivors today.
GRACE: We are live at the Sandusky trial, bringing you the news straight out of the courtroom. Jerry Sandusky now stands convicted of child molestation, 45 out of 48 counts, including 25 felonies. He will serve the rest of his life behind bars. And the whole time his family stood by him and refused to believe any of this happened.
We are taking your calls. Out to Kim in Washington. Hi, Kim, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I watch you all the time. I just wanted to ask, what happened with Sandusky`s stepson? And also what will happen with his wife down the road if they decide to sue like a civil suit, will she be in trouble at all?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Can you answer those questions?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, there was some -- can you repeat the question?
GRACE: Yes, number one, she wants hear about the stepson of Sandusky, and she also wants to find out will there be civil lawsuits and what is going to happen to Sandusky`s wife, if there are civil lawsuits?
CASAREZ: All right. Let me start with Sandusky`s wife. I saw her walk into the courtroom tonight with her children it seemed like all around her. But for one, that`s Matt Sandusky. She was chewing some gum in the front row. She was listening, non-emotional to everything.
As far as Matt Sandusky, that is the adopted son, whose attorneys came out with a press release yesterday, for the very first time, saying he had finally come forward, able to talk that he had been abused by Jerry Sandusky. He also was the second child that was adopted by the Sanduskys.
And as far as civil suits, you better believe there are going to be a lot of civil suits. A lot of civil suits. Will they bring in Dottie Sandusky? Potentially. But it`s Penn State University, I think, that`s going to be the major, major person that is targeted with these civil suits.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Kirby Clements, Marla Chicotsky.
Kirby Clements, nobody is going to be exempt from these civil suits. They`re going to sue the university, they`re going to sue the family. And I don`t care if they have tried to move assets to the wife or the father or whoever`s name, the court will trace any money movement back for years, and pull that money back into the estate for these lawsuits.
KIRBY CLEMENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re absolutely right. I mean, what they will do is they will sue Jerry Sandusky and then allege that any transfer of that money is a fraudulent transfer designed to hide his assets. They may sue the wife because if she was there when some of these things occurred, especially that testimony we heard about the young boy crying out, I mean, the wife can get dragged in.
Penn state, they`re definitely going to get dragged in. I mean, as a former sex crimes prosecutor --
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, wait a minute, Kirby Clemens. Don`t tell me they`re going to get dragged in, Penn State is going to get dragged in. They walked in when they did not call police in 1998! They are in, Kirby Clemens!
CLEMENS: That is inexcusable. As much as I would love to try to defend them, I can`t explain why they wouldn`t have called the police. I`m a former sex crimes prosecutor and I got to tell you, when an educator is informed of a sexual abuse of child, at least in New York, there was a law you had to report it.
That being said, Penn state, not dragged, they jumped in, apparently eagerly, and they will be sued. I think perhaps the one victim here, apart from the young boys, is really going to be Mr. Sandusky`s wife, because this woman is now coming to realize that her husband was a pedophile, who was victimizing boys under their roof, and she was taking --I mean, all throughout this trial, she stood by him but now one of her own children is saying he abused me, as well.
GRACE: Well, you know what, that`s your interpretation.
To Marla Cichowski, defense attorney joining me out in Miami. Prosecuting child molestation cases, it`s hard enough in themselves, because a lot of jurors don`t believe the testimony of little children and think it`s all made up.
But when years have passed and when money is on the line; that is something the defense attorneys will go after, impeaching the victim. Yes, no?
MARLA CICHOWSKI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, absolutely. Bias and motive are the main things and targets that defense attorneys use on victims. It`s not always the best tactic, but it`s one of the only ones they have, especially in this case. So when there`s money at stake, they`re definitely going to try to expose that.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, the famed coach Jerry Sandusky has been convicted. A cheer went up around that courthouse when the verdict was announced and there`s a reason for that. Because these victims have gone for years with no voice, with no one to stand up for them.
When the first victim went to the police with his mother, his mother took him 1998 to tell police the famed, the great Jerry Sandusky was performing anal sex on little boys, all these mommies, sending their boys to the Second Mile charity group, thinking they would have a better life.
This little boy would go home without underwear and all these problems using the bathroom, all kinds of physical problems and the mom didn`t understand why. And the little boy didn`t want to go, she made him go so he could have a better life. But what did he get is there he got Jerry Sandusky forcing anal and oral sex on him.
And for all of you victims out there, speaking as a crime victim myself, this should give you hope and give you faith that somebody believes you and somebody will fight for you. That you don`t have to keep fighting.
Back out to Mike Galanos. I understand there is still one of the victims, victim number six, who is still in the courtroom crying, crying.
GALANOS: Nancy, the emotional release, I don`t even think we can put it into words what these survivors are now going through, as they have victory. They have justice served. And a massive leap in the healing process.
Nancy, I want to share with you, one of the things that we look back, what does this look like as far as the pain inflicted by Jerry Sandusky. The mom that I talked to, she was -- she is a strong woman. And as I spoke to her and she fought back and she said something wasn`t right and this and I knew it and she thinks back, wishing she would have done something else, wanting to turn the clock back but she can`t.
GRACE: With me -- Mike Galanos is also with me. Jean Casarez.
I want to go out now to a special guest, Catherine Torres, survivor of childhood sex abuse. Catherine joining me tonight out of Dallas, Texas. She`s been standing by, waiting for this verdict.
Catherine, what will this mean to these victims?
CATHERINE TORRES, CHILDHOOD SEX ABUSE SURVIVOR: You know, I absolutely agree with the statements. I`ve been in law enforcement for years because of what I went through, and I`ve got to tell you the most important thing is the confirmation today from the jury that they were believed. That is their very first step in truly healing, is that they were believed. You cannot heal whenever you believe that everybody thinks that you`re a liar.
GRACE: Joining me right now, out of cave creek, Arizona, retired police captain CW Jensen.
You know, I don`t want to come down on the cops too hard, but in my book if they had believed the victim in 1998, endless rapes of children could have been stopped. Why do you believe -- do you think some of those cops knew Sandusky and just couldn`t believe it?
CW JENSEN, RETIRED POLICE CAPTAIN: Nancy, I do. I`ve actually been to state college. I`ve met the PSU cops. They`re great people. I just believe that this must have been so difficult --
JOE AMENDOLA, JERRY SANDUSKY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The Sandusky family is very disappointed obviously by the verdict of the jury, but we respect their verdict. You may recall for those of you who have been with this case from the beginning, that we said that we had --
GRACE: Everybody we are live at the courthouse. Here is Defense attorney Joe Amendola.
AMENDOLA: The charges filed against him, that he had been determined to be guilty by the public and the media from the very outset of the charges and that we had an uphill battle. I used the analogy that we were attempting to climb Mt. Everest from the bottom of the mountain.
Well, obviously we didn`t make it. We always felt -- we always felt that Jerry`s fairer shake would come from a center county jury and we still believe that. The jury obviously believed the commonwealth`s evidence, believed the commonwealth`s witnesses. That`s clear from the verdict.
I`ve been asked already inside is that a surprise? No, it was the expected outcome, because of the overwhelming amount of evidence against Jerry Sandusky. You may also recall that we asked for a continuance on a number of occasions on the basis we need more time to sift through the thousands of pages of materials to determine what other types of defenses we might have. But due to judicial constrictions, we were forced to proceed to trial at this time.
I think most of you would have agreed with me that had someone said last November and December we would have a trial in early June, that you would have agreed that was not very likely at all. And yet here we are with a trial that`s concluded and it`s still the latter part of June after three weeks in court. We have some appeal issues we`ll pursue. We feel we have some decent appeal issues. I do want to say --
GRACE: OK, everybody. This is the defense lawyer whining that he asked for continuances and he didn`t get them. OK.
According to me, they`ve had time since 1998 to prepare their defense. That`s when the first child victim was taken to the police station.
Joining me right now is a special guest who witnessed the verdict, Carine Zimmerman.
Hi. Thank you for being with us. What did you see in the courtroom when the verdict came down?
CARINE ZIMMERMAN, WITNESSED THE VERDICT: It was very silent. It was dead silent. No one moved. And we just watched Sandusky, actually his face just go blank as they kept reading.
GRACE: Did he think after all these years that he could just keep on raping children and never be brought to justice?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I heard he told one of the victims that he said he`d never be convicted, and I really honestly -- because he is a celebrity around here, I was kind of worried.
GRACE: You were there for almost all the testimony Carine Zimmerman, and I would like to know which piece of the evidence affected you the most?
ZIMMERMAN: The victims. When they got up on the stand, it was heartbreaking. I couldn`t imagine being them.
GRACE: When you say you could not imagine being them, what part of their testimony, what aspect of their testimony made you feel that way?
ZIMMERMAN: Basically how they trusted him and they let him down and I`m sure they were afraid no one would believe him.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live at the courthouse. And hearing Carine Zimmerman describe the silence that fell over that courtroom when the verdict was announced and the way Sandusky just went blank, having stated that he would never be convicted.
I got a surprise for you, Sandusky, you`re looking at about 400 years behind bars.
With me, Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health from Johns Hopkins.
Dr. Makary, thank you for being with us on this -- this what I consider to be a momentous night for victims all over our country.
Dr. Makary, we`ve heard a lot about oral and anal assaults on these little boys, and I want to find out what effect this will have on them. You have dealt with assault victims, and I don`t understand why so many people did not believe them.
DOCTOR MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN AND PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH FROM JOHNS HOPKINS: Beyond the physical damage, there`s traumatic psychological damage, Nancy. They have trouble concentrating in schools. They have trouble in future relationships and sadly a small fraction will go on to abuse other children in their distant future.
So there`s a lot of consequences. Today`s outcome is a partial victory for the 4,500 kids that come to emergency rooms every day in the United States and have some background of sexual abuse. Ninety nine percent of those kids will have the person that did that crime never identified, never arrested, never put behind bars.
So what happens today is actually a very significant achievement in this issue and for all the people that have struggled after having been sexually abused.
GRACE: Doctor Makary, when those children -- I mean, when I would deal with child molestation victims, it would be when I was preparing to take the case to trial. And many times, that was before we had DNA that we could bring before a jury. So I would have them months after the incident, maybe longer. When you have seen these children in the hospital, what is their demeanor, Doctor Makary?
MAKARY: Well, it`s conflicted. Because on one hand, most of the time it`s somebody that they know, someone they actually care about. And yet they feel so wronged and violated. So they feel this constant sense of conflict. And for most of the cases, there`s really no good way to get at exactly what happened, though. We are relying on one person. They may not know the details, and it`s a very difficult situation. You rely on a pattern, which is why these people who spoke up are heroes. They`re heroes of everybody else. And if you look at the affect Jerry Sandusky, the Bob Kasas` interview, inappropriate.
GRACE: OK. We are going back live to the courthouse. Let`s take a listen. Now speaking, Sandusky`s defense.
AMENDOLA: The question is, why would that come forward? Now, you have to ask Matt. But, you may remember is what I`m going to say is exactly what you just commented. You may remember the first day of trial, Matt was seated with his family and actually according to family members during the testimony of one of the witnesses, was kind of mocking the witness and indicating that he didn`t believe what the witness was saying.
We had no idea what happened. And that`s something that Matt and whoever represents him will have to tell you later. Yes. We anticipated Matt would be one of our witnesses and we were shocked by it. His family was absolutely shocked by it. His parents, his siblings were distraught by it. But nevertheless, that`s what we were facing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Jerry tell you about that?
AMENDOLA: Jerry said that Matt has had problems ever since Matt was with them. And that these problems had led matt at times to do things that were irrational. Matt had had problems as a juvenile and that there were explanations for it.
But unfortunately, as I said to Jerry, that if Matt testified, because this of the fact that this was a surprise situation, the jury would undoubtedly believe him, regardless of what evidence they had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
AMENDOLA: Jerry indicated he was disappointed by the verdict. But obviously he has to live with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he on suicide watch?
AMENDOLA: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was Matt living in the house when the trial started?
AMENDOLA: Matt, I can`t say was living in the house, but his parents told me Matt had been staying there temporarily recently. And apparently there`s some issue with his home life where he was staying with his parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are some of the grounds for the --
AMENDOLA: Well, we had the continuance request, for one. We had the inability of at least one of our expert to appear in court. We have of the moment of discovery materials that we got as close as two to three weeks before the trial which we didn`t have a chance to review.
I mean, I don`t know what you folks thought about the trial, but we were running in days by the seat of our pants just trying to catch up. Maybe it didn`t look like that, but that`s the condition we found ourselves in.
We also have some trial issues. We have some evidentiary issues which will address oppose sentence motions which can`t be file until after the sentencing.
Is that it, folks? Essentially, the sentence that Jerry will receive will be a life sentence just due to
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
GRACE: You are hearing from Sandusky`s defense there, outside the courthouse. He is blaming the conviction on everything from the judge`s refusal to allow them a continuance in the trial, to the stepson, who has come forward saying he too was molested by Sandusky claiming it started at age 11.
We are waiting to find out if the jurors are coming out of that courthouse to speak. They may very well do that. Let`s see who`s coming out right now. More people coming out of the courtroom.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
LINDA KELLY, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good evening, everyone. And thank you all for your patience tonight. I`m attorney general Linda Kelly, and joining me are members of the prosecution team and investigators on this case. Some of whom you probably recognize from their roles in the courtroom, and --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your microphone is not on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak up!
KELLY: Can you hear me? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak loud.
KELLY: OK. All right. And others who you may recognize from their behind the scenes work in this case. We have Joseph Magettigan (ph).
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
KELLY: Frank (INAUDIBLE) and Janelle (INAUDIBLE) from the attorney generals who were the trial team in this case. Major Brett Wagner from the Pennsylvania state police. Special agent Tony Sosano.
KELLY: And regional director Randy Feathers from our state college office.
These men and women, along with many other agents, troopers, investigators, attorneys, and other staff of the attorney general`s office of Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania state police have worked tirelessly for the last few years to bring these charges to light, to bring this case to court, and to see the day that this defendant, a serial child predator, who committed horrific acts upon his victims, causing life-long and life-changing consequences for all of them, has been held accountable for his crimes.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
KELLY: And I`d like to thank each of the individuals that I just mentioned for the very important role that they played in bringing this case to today`s verdict. I also want to offer my most sincere thanks to all the young men, the victims in this case, who came forward to bravely testify during this trial.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
KELLY: And to finally put a stop to the crimes that have been committed by this defendant. They have shown great strength and courage during this investigation. Candidly and sometimes chillingly, telling their stories to not on the jury and a packed courtroom audience here in Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, but also to the entire world.
It was incredibly difficult for some of them to unearth long-buried memories of the shocking abuse they suffered at the hands of this defendant. And most of us cannot possibly fully comprehend what they endured when testifying in that packed courtroom.
This trial was not something that they sought, but rather something that forced them to face the demons of their past and to reveal what happened to them and their childhood when they met Jerry Sandusky.
We hope that our search for justice in this case will help them and other victims who perhaps have been watching from afar and perhaps nearby as this case unfolded. One of the recurring themes of the witnesses` testimony, which came from the voices of the victims themselves in this case was who would believe a kid? And the answer to that question is we here in Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, would believe a kid.
KELLY: And I think I speak for not only my own agency but law enforcement across the country when we say we would believe a kid. And as reflected by this verdict that we`ve all just heard, a jury of 12 people here in Bellefonte, P.A., most definitely would and did believe a kid.
KELLY: Although we know the scars that these victims bear cannot be erased by the events in a courtroom, we hope that the outcome of this case not only allows these victims to heal and to begin the process of recovering and rebuilding their lives, but that it also encourages other victims of sexual abuse to come forward.
This is a crime that thrives in darkness. It`s fed by fear and threats, shame and secrecy where predators seek, carefully seek, the most vulnerable prey. While often they, themselves, are cloaked in respectability that is almost sometimes beyond reproach.
Of all the thousands of cases that stream through our judicial system, every once in a while, one will, for a brief moment, capture the attention of the eyes of the world, mesmerizing us until it plays itself out and its stardom begins to fade. I think that we`ve all recognized since the return of the grand jury presentment in this case, in this matter, that this was one of those uncommon cases and that the eyes of the world have since then been upon us.
You, the media, have covered the proceedings in this case with exceptional attentiveness and thoroughness and you have produced much thoughtful commentary and insightful analysis over the course of this trial. Resulting, I think, in the raising of -- resulting in the raising of the consciousness of your readers and listeners.
Sir, I will answer that question, if you wait until the end of this. Resulting in the raising of the consciousness of your readers and listeners and increased awareness by the public of the monstrous acts that can be committed by sexual predators like the defendant in this case who lived among us, who may appear to be pillars of the community, coaching icons, sports legends, and charitable executive extraordinaire, but who calculatingly and with meticulous planning, mercilessly prey upon the most vulnerable members of our society. They carefully select their victims.
In this case, as you know, underprivileged kids, kids from broken homes, foster homes, one-parent families, and many of them having other issues, like learning, behavioral and emotional problems to deal with as well. And all of whom in their time of need turned to the charity known as the second mile where they knew -- where we now know that Jerry Sandusky trolled for victims.
There are many important lessons that can be learned from this case. One of them is that we can`t let the national focus that this case has brought upon child sexual abuse fade after these cameras are turned off and the media has shifted their attention to the next important story.
We have to continue to focus on child sexual abuse and to shine a bright light in those dark, dark places where the Jerry Sandusky of the world lurk. Places which definitely exist in our society.
We need to protect our children and learn from the lessons of this case. And as for those who fail to respond to reports of child sexual abuse, their behavior is abominable, and has tragic consequences for young victims like the ones you heard from during the last two weeks.
These kids need our help, they need our support and we, as a society, must not turn our backs, close our eyes or try to convince ourselves it doesn`t exist when, in fact, it does exist.
This is a law enforcement issue and every police department and investigative agency across the country should take note of this case and ensure that every claim of child sexual abuse is addressed promptly and investigated thoroughly. With the understanding that where there`s one victim, there very likely are more.
This is also an institutional issue. Every institution that comes in to contact with children should operate under the premise that it`s their legal responsibility to report suspected child abuse. The legal part of this is easy to grasp but more importantly, there`s a moral and ethical imperative to do so. Concealing or attempting to minimize this type of crime is unacceptable as well as unconscionable and should not and cannot be tolerated.
This is also a family issue. And hopefully parents across the country will learn from this case how important it is to be vigilant about your child`s personal interactions with others and to make sure that your child is conscious of their own safety and aware that they must report these types of incidents.
And finally, this is a community issue, because outside of our roles as prosecutors and police officers and professionals. We all have an interest in keeping our communities and particularly our children, safe and secure and protecting our children who really are truly our most valuable natural resource. And they should always be our priority.
Every one of us has a responsibility to be aware of the possibility of this type of crime and to speak out if you note something troubling. I thank all of you for your patience and your dedication in covering this case. Your work, your work, too, has carried this story and the lessons that go hand in hand with it far beyond the borders of center county and it`s helped immeasurably to raise awareness about this kind of issue.
If there are people out there watching right now who have been victims of sexual abuse, as part of any case any where I encourage you to contact authorities in your community and seek the support and assistance that you need. There are no instant solutions to this problem but you working together, we can hope to make progress.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live at the Sandusky courthouse. A verdict has been handed down in coach Sandusky`s trial. He has been found guilty. Speaking now, the prosecution.
KELLY: The commonwealth`s interest in a case like this in this kind of criminal prosecution is not merely to win the case, but to see that justice shall be done. The two-fold aim of which is that guilt shall not escape nor innocence suffer.
Our goal here has always been to bring about a fair and a just result in this case. That goal has been accomplished with the jury`s verdict today. And we believe that justice has been served.
Thank you very much. And--
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KELLY: I would like to give the state police here a chance to say a few words.
BRET WAGGONER, DIRECTOR, PENNSYLVANIA BUREAU OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION: Thank you, General Kelly. My name major Bret Waggoner, the Pennsylvania State Police. I`m the director of the bureau of criminal investigation. I stand here as representative of the commissioner of the state police colonel Frank Noonan. I echo the comments put up by General Kelly and I thank her and her agency for the cooperation which we received throughout this investigation. I salute the prosecutors that prosecuted this case. I think that we all saw what this gentleman did in the courtroom. I salute him for that.
But there was a lot of other work by the prosecution that went unseen. And that was Mr. Frank Finn and his staff and what they put together to bring this to a success.
WAGGONER: The officers and agents from the Pennsylvania state police and the attorney general assigned to this case --
GRACE: You are now hearing a succession of speakers who have been in the courtroom. I want to go out to Marc Klaas.
Marc, what does this mean for victims, this guilty verdict?
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there`s several things that still need to be addressed. I mean, this huge burden has been lifted off of these young men`s shoulders, but I think neither the state nor Penn State University can continue to fail to support these kids.
Many of these young men may need a lifetime of psychological counseling. That can get incredibly expensive and somebody is going to have to pick up that cost as they try to reconcile their lives, what went on today, and put themselves back in some semblance of order so that they can continue to live positive lives.
Now, Nancy, I think that the prosecutor, I think that the attorney general gave a very good summary. And I think that people around the country have to be looking for the warning signs.
First of all, the warning signs of abuse, what kind of kids are subject to it? In this case, it was at-risk kids, kids from single-family homes, needy kids.
GRACE: You know, you`re right about that. When you take a look at the victims, Marc Klaas, everybody, we are live there at the courthouse, bringing you the latest in the guilty verdict that has been handed down against renowned Coach Jerry Sandusky.
You mentioned another thing, Marc Klaas, that there could be a lifetime of counseling. You know, when you and I were crime victims, we were adults. These guys were children.
KLAAS: Yes, no, they absolutely were children. The most vulnerable people in our society. And for years and years, they kept a horrible secret or they couldn`t find people that would believe them when they told the truth.
They are reconciling their sexual identity. They have to deal with the shame. They have to deal with the guilt that they have gone through. It`s a huge burden that they still carry. But as everybody has mentioned--
KELLY: I can say that this is an ongoing investigation. It continues. So, we can`t speculate on whether or not there will be future charges but we are continuing to look into this.
KELLY: Well, that trial hasn`t been scheduled yet. There`s no trial date yet. So we can`t tell you when that trial will go forward. And as I said, this is an ongoing investigation.
GRACE: We are still waiting. We are hoping we may hear from some of the jurors that handed down this verdict.
Very quickly, Dr. Leslie Seppinni, what do these victims still have to face for the rest of their lives?
DR. LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPERT: You know, Nancy, I never thought in my lifetime I would see this happen, and I can say as somebody a victim of child molestation and rape at the age of 15, where I went through the same kind of thing they went through, it`s really -- it`s a lifetime of nightmares.
It`s a lifetime of feeling like, are you dirty? How are you going to tell your potential spouse or significant other? It`s -- it`s looking over your shoulder and wondering, is someone behind you?
It`s just a lifetime of counseling, as the other gentleman said. And it comes and goes and there`s times you`re doing really, really great and then there`s times where something happens that triggers these emotions that are not real in the time of your life today, but they never go away.
And the great news about today, which, like I said, I never thought I would see in my lifetime, is that these molesters can no longer control us, humiliate us, and harm us. And the message is molesters beware and adults who should be responsible for children need to be responsible.
And I`m just really grateful for today and this opportunity for people to know what these gentlemen need and the kids are going to need who are still going through this.
GRACE: You know, Leslie, as you`re speaking, I can see--
GRACE: -- you`re in tears.
SEPPINNI: Yes. I`m grateful. I`m so grateful.
GRACE: It`s hard to verbalize, for victims of violent crime, like you, like me, like Marc Klaas. I mean, we hear this verdict, what it means. It`s very hard for me to verbalize what it means that this verdict was handed down.
SEPPINNI: I feel like I can breathe, you know? Like tonight, I feel like when I go home tonight that I will be able to rest my head on the pillow knowing that the door has opened, you know, not just for boys but for girls and for children. Just the door is opened.
That finally, maybe for a night, I can just breathe knowing that there is someone who is going to believe the next person and they don`t have to live their life in shame. Yes. It`s big. This is big.
GRACE: And, you know, another thing, Leslie, when Marc Klaas was talking about years and years and years of facing that, all the way through the rest of their lives, people that have never been crime victims, they don`t -- it doesn`t make sense to them, but it`s true.
For the rest of your life -- I was a crime victim back in 1979 and you never know when it`s going to come over you. You don`t know what`s going to trigger it. And you can feel like it`s right back to that day when the whole world changed, when you had no more power, when something awful and terrible happened that changed your life for good. And there`s no going back, Leslie. You never go back to the way that you were.
SEPPINNI: And the people that will tell you throughout your lifetime when you`re having a bad moment, who may know something about what`s happened to you to get over it. They will tell you that throughout your life.
And I know the courage that it takes for those men to do what they did. I did it just five years ago, in my 40s. And I have to tell you, I thought that the day I did it, I couldn`t breathe. I thought that I was going to die from just the anxiety of finally confronting this person.
And knowing the fight, the uphill battle I would have dealing with my family members believing me, dealing with other people, but knowing that as long as I kept that secret, I was emotionally destroyed as a person having quality of life.
GRACE: We are taking you back to -- we are taking you back