http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/08/acd.01.htmlANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Romney Closes Gap in Latest Polls;
Jerry Sandusky Speaks from Jail; High Stakes for VP Debate
Aired October 8, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Ashleigh, thanks. Good evening, everyone.
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COOPER: Up next, more breaking news. Convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky is speaking out from his jail cell just hours before he's sentenced for his crime. That's going to happen tomorrow. He does everything from attack the victims to talking about his sex life at home. We've got the tape. You can hear it for yourself. And we're going to hear from the attorneys on both sides of the case next. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: Breaking news now. Jerry Sandusky releases an audio taped message from jail just hours before he's going to be sentenced in his child sex abuse case. Why he says it is a flawed conviction. Ahead on 360.
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COOPER: Breaking news tonight. Serial child molester Jerry Sandusky will be sentenced tomorrow and we can already predict there was going to be no expressions of remorse for recruiting, grooming and ultimately raping all those boys.
We know he won't express remorse. We know he won't take responsibility because tonight on the eve of his sentencing hearing, the former Penn State football coach and children's charity founder has put out a jailhouse tape.
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JERRY SANDUSKY, CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: They can take away my life. They can make me out as a monster. They can treat me as a monster but they can't take away my heart. In my heart, I know I did not do these alleged disgusting acts. My wife has been my only sex partner and that was after marriage. Our love continues.
The young man who is dramatic, a veteran accuser, and always sought attention, started everything. He was joined by a well orchestrated effort of the media, investigators, the system, Penn State, psychologists, civil attorneys and other accusers. They won.
I've wondered what they really won.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sandusky made those remarks in a Penn State radio station. And that's not all he said. Jason Carroll joins us. He's in State College. On the phone is Michael Boni, the lawyer for victim number one. Also renowned criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos.
Michael, you say Jerry Sandusky is really opening the wound for the victims by releasing this tape.
MICHAEL BONI, ATTORNEY FOR ALLEGED PENN STATE VICTIM NUMBER 1: Yes, Anderson. I believe he is. What's happening is that Sandusky is taking every opportunity to continue to torment these victims.
He's now accusing them, in fact, he made a direct reference to victim one by saying he started everything. There is no conspiracy here. There is no making these accusations for any reason other than to put Mr. Sandusky behind bars for the rest his life because of the heinous acts that he perpetrated on these victims.
COOPER: Mark, what about this? I mean, he is alleging this basically huge conspiracy against him by just about everybody, putting out a statement like this the night before the sentencing hearing, is that something you would ever advise a client to do?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. The last thing you are going to want to do is advise a client I want you to go in there, you're better off just saying nothing.
However, as a practical matter, he's going to get a life sentence, whether it's a number of years, whether it's consecutive, whatever it is, at his age any substantial prison term is a life sentence.
I've always wondered why a lot of defendants when they have been convicted get up and show remorse when they're facing hundreds of years to life or multiple life sentences, you know, at a certain point, I think you can look at it two ways.
Either he's truly the victim of a conspiracy and he's just speaking the truth, or as a lot of people would argue, look, somebody who is a serial pedophile is never going to admit to it, it doesn't matter how damning the evidence is, and this is just one more step in that progression, if you will.
So it certainly does not surprise me. He knows, and this shows you that he knows that this judge is not going to run the sentences concurrently, which means at the same time. The judge is going to stack these sentences.
I'm sure he's been told that by his lawyer, and whatever sentence he gets, which will probably be 40 or 50 years, something of that nature, to life, is tantamount to a life sentence. COOPER: Jason, what can you tell us about Jerry Sandusky's time in prison? He's actually written you letters, I learned.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Anderson. He's written me two letters to be specific. Basically in those letters, he made it very clear that he wants to focus on his appeal.
He's been doing a lot of writing. He maintains his innocence. He believes in his innocence. His wife, Dotty, believes in his innocence. She has come by the prison on a number of occasions to visit him.
And I think you are going to hear a little bit more about that, more about the fact that he believes that he is innocent when he addresses the court tomorrow.
COOPER: Michael, I want to play another part of the tape where Jerry Sandusky references the accusers. Let's play that.
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JERRY SANDUSKY, CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: -- evaluate the accusers and their families and realize they didn't come out of isolation. The accusers were products of many more people and experiences than me. Look at their confidants and their honesty.
Think about how easy it was for them to turn on me given the information, attention and potential perks. We didn't lose to proven facts, evidence, accurate locations and times. Anything can be said. We lost to speculation and stories that were influenced by people who wanted to convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He's clearly reading a statement which given his interview to Bob Costas is probably a wise move rather than just speaking off the cuff, but he's essentially saying your client and the other victims were doing this for financial gain and what he called potential perks. When you heard that, what did you think?
BONI: Yes. Well, I was outraged, Anderson. It's preposterous. With victim one's case in particular, he basically reached out to the police, told his mother, very relatively shortly after the years of abuse that he suffered.
Remember, he's still 18 years old. He was abused up until the time he was 14 or 15. He really didn't have time to prepare an elaborate conspiracy before going to report his abuse to the authorities. It's just a preposterous insinuation.
I understand from Mark that he understands that this can happen. I'll never understand this as long as I live. It just seems so, so wrong and heinous to me.
COOPER: Mark, in terms of an appeal, I mean, are there any grounds for an appeal?
GERAGOS: Well, one of the things that he says in his statement, and which obviously to anybody who reads this, clearly was vetted by his lawyer as you said, they weren't going to give Costas another chance to win another Emmy, this is going to be based on the lack of time for preparation for the trial.
And that will be his kind of centerpiece of the appeal. Remember, they had asked for a continuance. The lawyers had said repeatedly they did not have time to prepare. That is an awfully, awfully tough grounds for appeal.
I have been in that situation before and courts don't look all that friendly or openly towards that basis.
COOPER: We are going to play that portion of the tape coming up. We've got to take a quick break. More with our panel. We will also talk to the attorney for Jerry Sandusky. He will also be joining us ahead on that. We got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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COOPER: More than two years ago, Tiffany Harley told police she and her husband were ambushed on their jetskis on a lake along the United States/Mexico border. That he was shot in the head. She was forced to leave his body behind. Now a suspect is in custody. Tiffany Harley's reaction when we continue.
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COOPER: Back now with more on the breaking news, the pretty surprising jailhouse tape that surfaced tonight on Penn State radio.
Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State football coach, convicted serial child rapist, not expressing remorse, not really taking responsibility, in fact, not taking responsibility at all, blaming the victims, the system, the courts, and just about everybody that convicted him. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: We must fight unfairness, inconsistency and dishonesty. People need to be portrayed for who they really are. We have not been complainers. When we couldn't have kids, we adopted. We didn't have time to prepare for a trial. We still gave it our best.
We will fight for another chance. We have been given many second chances and now will ask for one. It will take more than our effort. Justice will have to be more than just a word. Fairness be more than just a dream. It will take others. Somebody apolitical with the courage to listen, to think about the unfairness, to have the guts to stand up and take the road less traveled.
I ask for the strength to handle everything and the willingness to surrender only to God regardless of the outcome. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with us, Jason Carroll, Michael Boni represents victim number one and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos. And on the phone, Sandusky attorney, Karl Rominger.
Karl, appreciate you being with us. Clearly, this statement seemed to be vetted, I assume you looked at it before. Did you advise Jerry Sandusky to release this statement and if so, why?
KARL ROMINGER, JERRY SANDUSKY CO-COUNSEL (via telephone): I have not seen that statement prior to the release, nor had Joe Amendola. We would tell him probably not to do it, but the reality is given the mandatory minimums that apply in this case, it's probably not going to make an effective difference in the length of his sentence, vis-a-vis his life expectancy.
COOPER: So you didn't know he would be making a statement in advance?
ROMINGER: I did not.
COOPER: When you heard it, what did you think? What do you think of it?
ROMINGER: Well, it sounds like Jerry. He maintains his innocence. If he's innocent, God bless him. Get your word out there. I understand his frustration. We were rushed to trial.
Commonwealth had three years to prepare. We couldn't get one continuance for Jerry Sandusky. I can get three continuances for a parking ticket. I couldn't get one in the biggest case in Pennsylvania history.
COOPER: I want to play another part of his statement. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: I'm responding to the worst loss of my life. First, I looked at myself. Over and over I asked why, why didn't we have a fair opportunity to prepare for trial. People need to be portrayed for who they really are. We've not been complainers. When we couldn't have kids, we adopted. When we didn't have time to prepare for a trial, we still gave it our best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: To your point that he didn't get a fair trial, how at this point, you're hoping for an appeal, what's the likelihood of that?
ROMINGER: Well, we believe we have strong grounds for appeal, both on the failure of the court to grant one continuance to prepare, given the fact, the dump of documents and information pre-trial. And second of all, the prosecutor made statements about Jerry not giving a full and fair explanation in a statement to Bob Costas, which they chose to present to the jury, and then complain that it wasn't full and complete.
Our position is that's a violation of commonwealth v Johnson, a Pennsylvania case that suggests that any commentary on incomplete silence is impermissible.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, what do you make of what you're hearing from Karl Rominger? Are you surprised that he's saying he didn't hear about this in advance? As an attorney that's got to be --
GERAGOS: I'm surprised -- exactly right. I'm surprised by the vetting. I agree with Karl. I think it's what I said before you put him on the phone, given what he's facing in terms of time, what difference does it make ultimately?
In fact, I'm always surprised when defendants go quietly. The document dump is particularly as a defense lawyer, you always wonder why is it that the prosecution gets to start off and have a giant head start.
Then you get the case and it's on your mark, get set, go, and you're trying to play constant catch up, then they dump stuff on you at the last minute and you're still supposed to get your arms around that and defend it.
The argument is, well, the prosecution's got to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense has just got to raise a doubt. I just think, you know, in fundamental fairness when somebody is facing basically a life sentence.
That you should err on the side of caution and as he says, give him his one continuance. The other comment, I think that that's grounds for appeal. It's what we call at least federally griffin error, things of that nature, when you're commenting on somebody's failure to explain.
Well, that's a violation if taken structurally of the Fifth Amendment. You have a right to remain silent. If they're introducing it, why are they then saying he didn't explain? They're saying he didn't take the stand.
COOPER: Michael, think there are grounds for appeal here?
BONI: Well, I'm listening to Karl and to Mark. In this case, I really don't. This defendant was hit with an avalanche of evidence and was convicted on 45 of 48 counts against him. I think that the evidence here is overwhelming.
I think the fact that there was an alleged attenuated time for the defense to prepare a trial does not explain why Jerry Sandusky is picking now to proclaim his innocence when he could have done so at the trial. He didn't then. I understand it's his Fifth Amendment right not to, but it does question, you know, the veracity of what he's saying now and why he chose now to proclaim his innocence. He had the chance and --
COOPER: Jason, does it surprise you to hear that Sandusky didn't talk to Mr. Rominger in advance of this statement?
CARROLL: Well, I can tell you this. Joe Amendola told me that he was the one, in fact, who helped make the arrangements between Jerry Sandusky and the radio station, so I don't know how much of a heads up he got, but that arrangement was made by Joe Amendola.
I can also tell you that the interview was given to a man who Jerry Sandusky has known for many, many, many years. He was identified to me as a very old friend. A little bit more also I can tell you about what is expected with Jerry Sandusky tomorrow.
I'm told when he addresses the court, it will probably take anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes. Again, he's expected to read a statement. He will not adlib. He's expected to talk about the philosophical reasons why he believes this has happened to him.
He probably will tell the court that he says that everything that happens for a reason and hopefully, some good will come out of this and that he will continue to fight.
Also tomorrow, Anderson, Dotty Sandusky, who has remained at his side throughout this entire ordeal, will be in the court. She has submitted a letter to the court supporting her husband.
His children, Kara, Jeff, E.J. and John, have also submitted letters to the court as well as former Second Milers. In addition to that, an old time friend, Dick Anderson, one of Sandusky's old time friends, Dick Anderson, will submit a letter of support as well. These are some of the people who continue to believe in his innocence.
COOPER: So Karl, just quickly, Jason was saying that Joe Amendola, another attorney, helped organize this interview. Do you know if he vetted this statement?
ROMINGER: I don't know if he vetted it or not. I have some concern with what he said, obviously, because it could affect sentencing but at the end of the day it's not going to make a difference. I think I've said if he really wants to speak his mind, it doesn't really matter in this case. If he's innocent, then he should keep proclaiming it.
COOPER: Karl Rominger, I appreciate you being on. Jason Carroll, Michael Boni, and Mark Geragos as always. Thank you very much.
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