Lively Case Discussion #642 6/19 - 6/20/2007

[AZSunny]

Also BFN does not allow bashing of any any of Natalees family members either.

Sam,  that was not me.

[oldfart]

<<Snip>>
AS YOU SAID
"Aruba, provide answers and justice for Natalee and I am certain that Beth will stop the boycott someday. However, that will never change people's minds and what they have come to know over the past 2+ years. Those images and what was done are carved in stone and "google" and Topix for eternity."

Red
Thank You and for what it is worth  & JMO..
If the people of Araba (not just a handfull) had in someway demanded  answers / accoutabiltity on at least a weekly basis from the fall of 2005 until now.. things may be different

as Mrs. Red said
There are NO innocent people in Aruba in my opinion - NOT one person stood up and questioned what happened...
and as
Tib semi said
I cannot see how it would make any difference anyway IF YOU live in a free country with free speech and the ability to make up YOUR own minds and act upon the conclusions YOU come to, without having to be led like sheep on someone else's whim. (The red are  my changes).

Whether Beth would have supported a boycott  
IF the people of Aruba had made demands ... I do not know

But I have learned that Aruba is not an Island of Donkeys  but of Sheep
Donkeys are independent, stubborn and demand attention..
Sheep just follow the leader.. even if it is over a cliff

JMO of course

[San]

Red,
You stated it well! Just what the hell is behind Robin's post? I just don't get it!

I'm with you, Wreck, I just don't get it either.

But I was never supporting a boycott of Aruba because Robin asked me to do so.  By the time my governor endorsed the voluntary consumer boycott because of safety issues, I had decided I would never go there again because I did not want to be among people who behave and think as those sickos on RU and FOB seem to do.

And from the newspapers, we all knew that there was far more crime than we were being led to believe.  That's why I started the Murder and Crime thread, to prove what we were seeing daily in their own periodicals.

It had little to do with one person or even Robin and Dave both asking that we do so but rather more of doing the right thing than a personal favor to someone, even grieving parents.

The boycott is the natural result of the treatment this family received and the rest of us as American citizens when one of our own went missing and they refused to give an accounting for her disappearance on their island.

I continue to be horrified at the treatment not only this family has received but the attitude toward Americans in general that is prevalent there as well.  The bashing of the victim did nothing to enhance their stature.

Certainly, thinking people do not want to reward all this by giving their hard earned vacation dollars to a place like Aruba.  That is what the boycott is about and I am surprised that one person would think they had the power to stop the moral judgment of others so easily.

JMO

I agree Anna.  Great post.

[Easywriter]

I can understand about allowing people with opposing views and all, But, to allow the same people that go to other sites talking bad about Natalee, I do not get that.   BFN=Blogs FOR Natalee, and even though they might not say she is a whore and asked for this on the BFN site, they say it elsewhere and are still allowed at BFN.

I personally have not seen such comments made about Natalee on another site by a poster who is then allowed to post openly at BFN. It may have happened, it just seems if that were the case , then some of their anti-Natalee rhetoric would come through at BFN. There are many with differing views this is true. Civility is maintained.

Maybe I misunderstood then. I thought that it was said that MIP whatever and reality have said nasty things about Natalee.

I have never seen such posts if this is true.

People have compiled pages and pages made by both MIP and Reality that go back to 2005 all across the internet.  It is a very disgusting read.  Where ever gagirl goes MIP and Reality are sure to follow......

[sb]

I don't think it would be fair to expect Beth to express any feelings whatsoever on what Robin said. That would be a "wedge" if there ever was one. To try to drive a wedge between mother and stepmother in this case is both grossly unfair... and exactly what the dark side wants.

I think Beth is saving her voice for that book she is writing.

[Dihannah1]

Robin strikes me as being the type who tries to avoid confrontation at all costs. She may be seeing us as a more confrontational site. I fear that she has been swayed by the smoothness of Aruba's propagandizing machine.

Then again, this could be her subtle way of practicing "Know Thy Enemy".

I'm not sticking up for Robin here so much as I am looking for explanations as to why she has seemingly cozied up to the dark side.

Because they attack Beth?  (jealousy thy name is woman)

AZ, one of the reasons why the family participated in the November meeting in Birmingham which I was invited to, was to dispel the idea that there was a can-you-top-this game being played between Beth and Robin. I saw ZERO... as in NONE... as in NOT ONE SHRED OF... EVIDENCE that Beth and Robin are at odds, or jealous of one another, or had cross purposes or separate agendas in any way. It is all Find Natalee, Get Justice, Get Answers.

That meeting was mostly BFN people and I would characterize them as being staunchly pro-boycott, yet they are accepting of the other view. I don't see why Robin's views are such a big deal. Debbie is apparently pro-boycott and she isn't ready to sell Robin off yet.

Forgive me, but if there wasn't some "one up woman ship" why would that even need to be addressed?  just my woman's prespective only.  I hope you are right.  I do not know any of them.

AZ Sunny I am afraid you are under a misperception also tonight. Robin does not Post at RU . I have not been reading FOB for very long but I have never seen a post there from Robin either.

Sam,  I didn't say that.  DiHannah did.

Dihannah1 was in lala land for a few.  I realized my error and stated such, several pages back.  I apolize for  my own confusion

[Anna]

SAM,[/b

Long ago when I still read at RU, I saw posts that were supposedly from Robin posted there.

Also someone gave them lots of photos of Natalee as a little girl and Robin was in many of those.  One was used to make a very unflattering photoshopped comparison of Natalee, whose grades were good enough to get her scholarship, as a fetal alcohol syndrome baby.

But there were several posts long ago which RU claimed were from Robin.

I am sure others saw those as well as me.

.

[sb]

Isn't gagirl the one who supposedly flew back from Aruba on the same plane with one of the MB kids' groups and said some negative things about them way back in the beginning? I have those posts saved somewhere. I think she started at Unriehl.

[bleachedblack]

I don't think it would be fair to expect Beth to express any feelings whatsoever on what Robin said. That would be a "wedge" if there ever was one. To try to drive a wedge between mother and stepmother in this case is both grossly unfair... and exactly what the dark side wants.

I think Beth is saving her voice for that book she is writing.

I would not ever expect her to do so. I don't know if this was meant for me and a previous I posted about no word from Beth. I simply was saying in general it has been months since we have heard from Beth regarding any developements, issues, or actions.

[klaasend]

SAM,[/b

Long ago when I still read at RU, I saw posts that were supposedly from Robin posted there.

Also someone gave them lots of photos of Natalee as a little girl and Robin was in many of those.  One was used to make a very unflattering photoshopped comparison of Natalee, whose grades were good enough to get her scholarship, as a fetal alcohol syndrome baby.

But there were several posts long ago which RU claimed were from Robin.

I am sure others saw those as well as me.

.

Yes Anna - I saw those pictures and wondered why anyone would offer those photos to RU.  Especially seeing what they did with the fetal alcohol thing.  Of course, that can be attributed to Julia Renfro (Glenda).  It was my understanding that Robin was sharing information with Victim's Cry.

[Rob]

You know, I see Beth as someone that holds alot in. I really believe she does. And when it all comes out ~ look out!!!! She is too much of a lady to degrade herself and Natalee. It's in her words and if you pay attention you hear it too.

She doesn't play games on the net. She will say her piece when she and JQK say the time is right and not before.

Beth was smart enough to write it all down.... and I believe when the true story is told, it will sink Aruba and the remaining life span of Paulus and Joran.

She knows exactly what happened. Her day will come. And so will Natalee's ... whether or not Aruba and the Dutch do the right thing.

Which makes it all the more important that they do what is necessary or suffer the consequences for all eternity.

Aruba fear is not Joran's book, but Beth's true story!

[Red]

OLD FART
Red
Thank You and for what it is worth & JMO..
If the people of Araba (not just a handfull) had in someway demanded answers / accoutabiltity on at least a weekly basis from the fall of 2005 until now.. things may be different

Could not agree with you more. When I was there in July on 2005, I didn't even get out of the airport before hearing snide comments about NH and TES.

We were coming in and waiting for each other to pass through immigration and got to hear some off color comments about us being their looking for "that girl".

That was in 2005, when they were supposed to care and be concerned.

[Dihannah1]

Bottom line.  No matter what Robin says or whomever else.  We have a right to feel the way we do and act upon that.  We feel the need to protect other innocent victims from the same fate, then so be it.  I say, we continue with our boycott and support those going to New Orleans.  We as Americans have a right to choose for what we feel is in our own best interest and that of others and act upon that.  That's what we enjoy as US citizens!  Freedom of Speech!  

Boycott Aruba!

[sb]

No BB, I was referring to specifically the idea of Beth commenting on Robin's statement, not on what you said. I have been troubled by her silence at times too. But I do think that she is traveling and getting a book ready and that is a CHUNK to do.

[wreck]

I'M NOT DONE WITH THIS!

Quite frankly, I'm getting livid. If Robin and Dave truly believe the "boycott" should end -- they need to make it very clear that it is theirs and THEIRS opinions alone. Out of respect -- they should make it clear that not everyone in the family agrees with them! I also think a statement like that should not be released without the foreknowledge of those who have worked so hard to find justice for Natalee. That includes people such as Red, Tim Miller and many, many others.

[Dihannah1]

I REPEAT!

Bottom line. No matter what Robin says or whomever else. We have a right to feel the way we do and act upon that. We feel the need to protect other innocent victims from the same fate, then so be it. I say, we continue with our boycott and support those going to New Orleans. We as Americans have a right to choose for what we feel is in our own best interest and that of others and act upon that. That's what we enjoy as US citizens! Freedom of Speech!

Boycott Aruba!

[Anna]

For me, the boycott is the right thing to do in response to the inappropriate manner in which Aruba refused to conduct a proper investigation and took active steps to protect one of their own.

I would not promote a boycott just because a grieving family asked me to do so if I thought it was the wrong thing to do.

OTOH, I would not stop promoting one if they asked me to stop if I thought the boycott an appropriate response to an injustice I see.  In other words, I think for myself and do not just take marching orders from anybody.

There is no way on earth I could in good conscience, knowing what I know of the crime and the officials in Aruba, encourage another human being to go there.  Just look at how they have trashed the victim and even her mother and the rest of her family and all the MB kids to see the reason for the boycott.

And while our own country certainly does have its own faults, that at least is something we do not see here and for that I am thankful.

JMO

.

[Elaine]

Aruba needs to understand that this is about a lot more than 1 or 2 people. Thanks to the corrupt Justice system there. We do not want our daughters or sons to go there and walk off the face of the earth, never to be found again, and no-one held accountable.

[bleachedblack]

No BB, I was referring to specifically the idea of Beth commenting on Robin's statement, not on what you said. I have been troubled by her silence at times too. But I do think that she is traveling and getting a book ready and that is a CHUNK to do.

Thank-you sb for your response. I would never expect Beth to comment on Robin +Daves statement . She is to much of a lady to do something as crude as that.

[klaasend]

FYI - sources close to SM have told us that Beth was interviewed durring the filming of Carla's CTV show.  It should be part of tomorrow nights show.  The show was taped a couple months back.