Lively Case Discussion #643 6/20 - 6/21/2007

[klaasend]

Nite Rob

[sb]

I won't get a chance to watch the whole thing until tomorrow... so I am relying on what all of you say. If it really was brought out and emphasized that the guy who took her from CC's did the crime, I guess most people do know that is Joran.

[Observer]

Nite Rob

[Port Valerie]

Thanks for posting the Youtube links. The show is fascinating.

[klaasend]

Hopi mata di marihuana y arma confisca      
Thursday, 21 June 2007  

Diaranson mainta autoridadnan a bay drenta diferente cas y a bin topa cu un total di 1000 potchi di marihuana. Esaki no tawata tur pasobra a bin haña un cantidad di arma incluyendo un arma semi automatico. Un total di 5 persona a keda deteni. Click play pa scucha vocero di polis y read more pa mas imagen.

Throught the pap translator:


diaranson morning autoridadnan owing to bay enter various cas y owing to come come across cu one overall of 1000 potchi of marihuana. this not tawata all because owing to come find one cantidad of arm incluyendo one arm semi automatico. one overall of 5 person owing to stay deteni. click play for listen vocero of police y read more for more imagen. come across







http://www.24ora.com/content/view/1036/8/

[Kat_Gram]

Well I just watched the whole thing. I found it interesting. And disturbing.
Where was the BEDB ? Ha !
I am not sure exactly what they were measuring with the equipment.
Will watch it again. like Anna said, better than the Dutch re enactment.
I want to hear more from this lady.

[sb]

I'm calling it a night too... can't keep my eyes open!

[Port Valerie]

The show definitely presents a plausible theory of the case. Focuses on one predator and an older, influential man. Seems to leave the Kalpoes out of it, apart from their being the "ride" that the younger man needed.

If it happened as the psychics suggested, how did Joran get home? Did he walk? They think he involved the father immediately. Maybe Paulus told Joran to call Deepak as a way of establishing an alibi: Joran told Deepak he was at home and then he and Paulus immediately left to take care of business.

By their scenario, Joran was a predator and Natalee was drugged. This seems to fit both of their characters as we have come to know them. I appreciated the part where Carla felt that "it wasn't supposed to be like this. It was supposed to be a perfect vacation, not this." Interesting, too, that Carla said Natalee was face down in the sand. That, plus being drugged, plus being attacked, could cause her to smother. Very plausible.

Regarding the site with a crevice and a view of the ocean: would the cemetery fit what John Oliver "envisioned"?

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[Observer]

The more we learn about Joran the more obvious it becomes of why Natalee is no longer with us. He couldn't let her go when Natalee fought back. He couldn't take the chance of Natalee getting him into trouble and He couldn't take the chance of anyone seeing what happned to her.

[Shell]

One thing is fer sure that sketch ain't Jerry Strawberry or Boeti.

lol

[IBE]

Am watching the reshowing of Haunting Evidence.. When the man has first arrived and is walking on the sidewalk you can see the ALE or the Visabiity Team watching him in the background walking behind him.. then the camera turns a little to shot show them there. There are dressed in white tops and black knee length baggy pants.

Hope this types up OK as eyes are blurry.

Keep up the Good Works Monkeys

[Port Valerie]

Carla says money changed hands that night. So ... you're Paulus: Your oldest son comes home and tells you he was with a girl on the beach and something bad happened and she won't wake up. First you tell your son to call Deepak to establish the fact that he's at home ... Next, you put your middle son on the computer to keep the alibi going. Finally, you go out with your son to see what the situation is. You grab some blankets and drive your own car. You get to the beach and find that yes there is a problem. You and your son could pick up the girl and put her in the trunk of your car and take her some place.

Question: Where would you take her, and who would have to be paid? Answer: you would take her to some working-class man you know and trust, somebody who would handle the situation for a mere $400 upfront (the amount withdrawn from the atm that night.) Preferably, you would take her to one person, not a team (the fewer people the better). He would have to be someone with some physical strength and practical know-how, good at knowing how to do things, with some tools and a vehicle such as a boat or a truck. Maybe somebody you know because he had done some work around your house, or had installed your swimming pool, for instance. Maybe somebody you would contact directly, by going to his house and knocking on the door, rather than phoning.

I guess I'm looking for the unknown handyman, following the psychics' scenario. Paulus wouldn't have paid the Kalpoes or one of his professional-level best friends. Not cash. Not that night. He would have to come up with cash to pay a competent workman.

The unknown handyman would be the weak link, the person who now would like to talk. According to the psychics' scenario, that is.

[IBE]

Forgot whether I told you I took an extension class last night at West Los Angeles College in Culver City CA... on Cafepress. Very interesteing andwe are glad we have Klaas to do it for our Monkeys Got a training CD but only works with Windows.

I really think Carla is overwhelmed and not acting..IMO having been around a lot iof actors.
PS ?Who was the hellicopter pilot, one of the Menses>?? Eyes are blurry, sorry. Tomorrow night I take my 2nd one stroke painting course this on is on blossoms. Took rose buds. Did ok on buds, failed the leaves.

Had to take two before they will let me take the one on sunflowers. Sunflowers were my mom IBE;'s favorite flower along with cornations.. I need to get out the being surrounded by disfunctional downers.. some who volunteered with me but also brought me down.

I like it here... maybe we are from some disfuctiionality in our past but we are not disvuctional here
My eyes are so blurry.  Put will post this anyway.

Love, "IBE:  Oh God, this program makes me cry even tho I saw it earlier.
No one can help her now... oh tears, goose bumps

I'd rather wear strong hearing aids than loose my eyes. Cant stop crying. Wish had someone to call. get a hug.. well dog and cat will do that. I just pub some fish in teh microwave so I will be real popular when it cools down. Signing off now...

[Tibrogargan]

Coming in late today due to appointments etc.
Firstly congratulations to San on reaching the lofty heights of moderator. Does this mean we have to have two sentries in the cage from now on - one to watch out for Klaas and one for San?  Also we need an email address for San so we can pester her with all our queries instead of bothering Klaas.
Was able to listen to Dana's show and enjoyed it as usual.
It surprised me to learn that Art Wood had not yet read Joran's Book of  Lies or even some of the translations on the blogs.  
Also a big thank you to Carpe for recording the Haunting Evidence episode for monkeys like me who cannot get this programme.  It is also good to be able to refer back to the actual events on the tape as after I read all the comments here I was somewhat confused as to the content. A great deal of time would have been spent by the psychics in tuning in to the impressions and only a fraction would have made it into the programme.  It appeared to me that several sections had been cut or curtailed and it is believable that this was done to prevent any possibility of litigation until this case is finally brought to court.  We have seen how certain people and  TV hosts have been quietened and others who have been obviously silenced for good. I would expect that the conclusions that were reached by the psychics were given to the FBI or Dutch investigators.  The ALE seemed less than happy that the HE team were on the island by their harassment and detention of the support crew.
The person guilty of the cover-up was described as powerful and wealthy.  Neither of these descriptions matches Paulus IMO who could have still been involved by enlisting this other person to arrange the disposal.
The sketch and description resembles Guido more than the others but I am sure the others were involved in a gang rape situation.  As Natalee was drugged and coming in and out of consciousness she would have only caught glimpses of the different perps in the dark hence the possibility that the picture could be a conglomeration of several faces to her during such a traumatic time.
I have to say that I was amused by the ones who chose to disbelieve  the psychics and all they had to say and then asked for them to appear on Dana's show to answer questions.  If you do not accept what they have to say why would you want to ask them questions?
Having said that I do agree that they did not disclose anything new on the show, just clarified what we had already come to accept.  Maybe there is new information that they have handed to the authorities and which is not for general publication at this time.  We could all do well to accept that. It will be interesting if Tim's ocean search is around the area pinpointed on the map by John.
Footnote : I do not accept that all psychics are genuine and some are downright shonky.  Ms Baron is one of the very few believable ones IMO.

[Sue]

Anyone got a picture Of Nelson O's  Son didnt he get himself in some trouble..  

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[Nut44x4]

I just don't see the beach as being the actual murder place -- I DO think her body was taken to the beach though. Personally, I think she died (or was very close to death) at the VDS house. They paniced and dumped her near the fisherman's huts. They went back and told Paulus and they went BACK to the beach and moved her.

YES!! I can also relate to this statement, somewhat. Paulus then could have made some contacts, gone for $$$ at ATM to pay someone for her disposal   . This would also coincide with Jorans partial 'truths' within all the lies. "I LEFT HER ON THE BEACH". He probably DID at one point...
By the way...I really see Guido in the sketch.

[Nut44x4]

One thing is fer sure that sketch ain't Jerry Strawberry or Boeti.

lol

I had to    at that comment also. Need to go read front page now.

[blah]

Looking at this, I see  Joran Guido morph much more than Kalpoes.  

It really does look like a combo of Guido and Joran but we have no concrete way of getting Guido directly involved other than the charges brought against him.  

The least involved would be the most likely to talk.  And I surely would if I did not play a direct part in her death.

Also I thought Beth had said that it was pretty well established that they did not go to the beach so I am totally confused on that now.

.

that sketch has the chin of Satish for sure