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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion # 863 1/13/12 - 2/07/12  (Read 263914 times)
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Ono
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« Reply #200 on: January 15, 2012, 05:30:17 PM »

So....... what's the opinion here? Will the U.S. get Joran extradited immediately for trial -- or will he have to serve his sentence in Peru completely first?

In my view---it will happen pretty quickly.  He'll be "Alabammy Bound!!" in no time.   
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #201 on: January 15, 2012, 05:36:15 PM »

"But since Aruba has done nothing, and the statute of limitations on the case is soon expiring in Aruba"Can't see Aruba turning over anything as that would expose the non investigation they did.
On this one, murder charges in the US, there are too many unknowns for me to hang on to any hope that it would happen, ever. A civil case, I think could fly and be won.
Too many international conventions between the USA, Aruba, Holland and now Peru for me to think that he could or would be held responsible for anything in the USA except the wire fraud.
The only thing that has kept this going is Beth and now Mr. Flores, both persons who
are not going to give up and who have the means and the respect and the visibility in their own countries to make something happen. Plus persons like JQK and Peter DeVries.   
I can't wait for Mr. Flores to have his press conference tomorrow.
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klaasend
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« Reply #202 on: January 15, 2012, 05:38:48 PM »

If this file is too large, mods please fix it for me, TY.

It's a collage of the prison, more or less. Hopefully he won't enjoy the priviledges he has become accostomed to at Castro Castro. We shall see.



Link:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Natalee%20Holloway%20-Aruba%20---%20Stephany%20Flores%20-Peru/?action=view&current=Penal-de-Piedras-Gordas.jpg


Jamcakes, I am adding your fork pic to the archive, love it!

Great prison pics Amanda - thanks!
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #203 on: January 15, 2012, 05:41:18 PM »

To avoid an outside investigation ... somehow I do not believe that Aruba is ever going to officially close the Natalee Holloway case.  It will be classified as forever ongoing/open.

Janet

++++++


When the Case is Closed

Growing Frustration in Aruba
Wednesday, July 06, 2005


<snipped>

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

<snipped

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 12/2/2005 10:37:47 AM ET


ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2


Art Wood:

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.

s.t.



Could it be that Jug Twitty and Art Woods are referencing the The Passive Personality Principle of Internation Law ... an action that could be implemented by the United States if Aruba were to officially declare the Natalee Holloway case closed.

Janet
 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #204 on: January 15, 2012, 05:47:06 PM »

Could it be that the reason The Passive Personality Principle of International has not be invoked in the Natalee Holloway case is the same reason that the Phil McGraw's defence attorneys are not being afforded case documentation in the defamation lawsuit?  The reason?  The Natalee Holloway case is not officially closed.

Janet

+++++


STILL SUSPECTS in Holloway case




s.t.

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
jamcakes
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« Reply #205 on: January 15, 2012, 05:52:12 PM »

"But since Aruba has done nothing, and the statute of limitations on the case is soon expiring in Aruba"Can't see Aruba turning over anything as that would expose the non investigation they did.
On this one, murder charges in the US, there are too many unknowns for me to hang on to any hope that it would happen, ever. A civil case, I think could fly and be won.
Too many international conventions between the USA, Aruba, Holland and now Peru for me to think that he could or would be held responsible for anything in the USA except the wire fraud.
The only thing that has kept this going is Beth and now Mr. Flores, both persons who
are not going to give up and who have the means and the respect and the visibility in their own countries to make something happen. Plus persons like JQK and Peter DeVries.   
I can't wait for Mr. Flores to have his press conference tomorrow.

I don't expect Aruba to turn anything over to the US either.  I was suggesting that if/when the case expires in Aruba, then the US could be free to use what info it has free of "spoiling" it for use in an Aruban trial.  The FBI supposedly has some evidence, like the examination of Skeeter's harddrive and whatever else was reportedly sent to the FBI.

A circumstantial murder case or a civil case or just the federal wire fraud/extortion case - any or all are fine by me. Hopefully, a conviction on any or all would result in more years for Joran to serve.

I also think that Dave Holloway has done whatever he could to find Natalee and the truth.

I look forward to the Flores press conference too.
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jamcakes
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« Reply #206 on: January 15, 2012, 06:03:05 PM »


It was an Anniversary Killing.

That means there are at least 6 including Natalee.

As Robots would say:  "Bet the farm."



JMO and only MO.

I believe there are more murder victims of Joran out there.  I just never thought of it being an annual thing.
What if Natalee wasn't his first?   
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #207 on: January 15, 2012, 06:09:34 PM »

  Peter R. DeVries was on Pauw & Witteman last week. 

Interesting to watch imo even though it's in Dutch.    

Wish we knew what was said!

I could understand Peter say "control" when referring to Joran in the beginning...and Aruba and FBI mentioned several times.  At the end when something was asked about Beth, Peter repeated Beth's comment about wanting to peel the skin off his face.

There is also a clip of Peter with Beth talking about the extortion by Joran just after 13:00 in the video.

Peter R. de Vries in Pauw & Witteman 11-01-2012

http://youtu.be/e-AqZFKiDUY

Google translation:


Uploaded by penwtv on January 12, 2012

Here's a few screen shots from it.






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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #208 on: January 15, 2012, 06:11:48 PM »

http://pulitzerandthompson.com/will-joran-van-der-sloot-return-to-us-to-face-trial/

Will Joran van der Sloot return to US to face trial?

Last night, before appearing on the Dr. Drew Show on HLN I had a chance to speak with John Q. Kelly, the attorney for the mother of Natalee Holloway.

Kelly, a no-nonsense and brilliant former Federal prosecutor, filled me in on a plan to return Joran to the US to face wire fraud and extortion charges related to the Dutchman’s alleged attempt to sell the location of Natalee’s body for $250,000.

According to Kelly a plan is already in the works to bring Van der Sloot to Alabama within the next several months. Kelly told me that after the US trial and hopeful conviction on charges carrying a sentence of thirty years, he would then be returned to Peruvian custody.

I have to admit the plan seemed a little hair-brained when I first heard of it, but then I thought of the William Trickett Smith case. Smith is an American accused of murdering his wife in Peru. The US sent Smith back to Peru after authorities here felt Peru had accumulated enough evidence for a conviction. After all our two countries do have extradition treaties.

It is Kelly’s hope that after a trial in Alabama, van der Sloot would be sent back to Peru to serve his entire sentence there. That’s fifty-eight years in prison folks.

Whether this plan will pan out remains to be seen. But it would explain the calm demeanor of Stephany’s father, Ricardo Flores, in court during Van der Sloot’s sentencing. Was he aware of a secret legal strategy that could have Joran in prison for the rest of his life?


Sounds like a plan to me!!!   


This is what I fully expect to happen.  They have to try him now on the federsal extortion charges because if they were to wait until his sentence in Peru is over, most of the witnesses could be dead!

So it must take place now or within the next year or so at the most.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #209 on: January 15, 2012, 06:13:02 PM »

Oh, Peter deVries! 

I am here at just the right time!
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #210 on: January 15, 2012, 06:13:38 PM »

If this file is too large, mods please fix it for me, TY.

It's a collage of the prison, more or less. Hopefully he won't enjoy the priviledges he has become accostomed to at Castro Castro. We shall see.



Link:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Natalee%20Holloway%20-Aruba%20---%20Stephany%20Flores%20-Peru/?action=view&current=Penal-de-Piedras-Gordas.jpg


Jamcakes, I am adding your fork pic to the archive, love it!

Great work, thank you for sharing!   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #211 on: January 15, 2012, 06:16:36 PM »

Oh, Peter deVries! 

I am here at just the right time!

I thought of you when I saw it!   

I wish someone would translate it for us, I'd love to know what was said.   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #212 on: January 15, 2012, 06:18:08 PM »

So....... what's the opinion here? Will the U.S. get Joran extradited immediately for trial -- or will he have to serve his sentence in Peru completely first?

In my view---it will happen pretty quickly.  He'll be "Alabammy Bound!!" in no time.   

Yeppers, where he won't be the biggest one on his cell block for a change, lol. 
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #213 on: January 15, 2012, 06:27:12 PM »

Flores family accept Joran's sentence
Published on 13 January 2012 - 8:44pm


<snipped>

The Peruvian Foreign Minister says the United States has not requested the extradition of Van der Sloot. A court in Alabama has charged him with extortion of Natalee Holloway’s mother. He is accused of asking money in exchange for information on the whereabouts of her body. Natalee Holloway went missing in May 2005, exactly five years before the murder of Stephany Flores. Her body has never been found, but court in Alabama declared her dead only yesterday.

<snipped>

http://www.rnw.nl/africa/bulletin/flores-family-accept-jorans-sentence


Joint Statement by United States Attorney Joyce White Vance and FBI Special Agent in Charge Patrick Maley Regarding the Joran van der Sloot Investigation
FBI Birmingham
June 09, 2010


http://www.fbi.gov/birmingham/press-releases/2010/bh060910.htm


 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Anna
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« Reply #214 on: January 15, 2012, 06:29:45 PM »

Well, I understood mother, father, Natalee Holloway, probation and random words.  I do get the impression that they said there was no proof Stephany was ever on Joran's laptop looking for anything.
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« Reply #215 on: January 15, 2012, 06:31:30 PM »

Frankly, I don't know how they could file muder charges in the USA as the evidence of the
" investigation" and all the rest of the paperwork is in Aruba and some possibly in NL. Unless there is something I am not comprehending. Or missed. Or as was suggested is going on behind the scenes. Last I read, Aruba still had the investigation open. I could see a civil suit if they can get him in the USA when and if they can get him to Alabama to serve him.
..
I just get tired of him and his schemes to make money from information or exclusive interviews regarding two murders. Never mind how much persons donated willingly to him.
What kind of life path is this that is rewarded by the strange world we live in.?
 


This is what I thought as well until murder charges were filed for that man who killed his wife on their honeymoon in Australia.  Charges were filed here even though the crime happened in Australia and he was convicted.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #216 on: January 15, 2012, 06:33:46 PM »

Texasmom, I'm glad you posted what you read under the crossed out part of Joran's letter. Helps knowing what others see as well.

Boy, Idiot boy sure picked the wrong girls. Beth was/is a pitbull who will never stop trying to find Natalee. Stephanie's family has influence. Just look how fast he got moved to another prison after the mention of a press conference. It does how ever make me wonder if there are other victims who families were not there to fight so hard.

ITA Roxibalboa.  Think about it, Aruba...where even there own "missing" don't seem to matter at all so how many girls supposedly "ran away" never to be seen or heard from again; or if they survived never said anything because they knew he would never be held accountable...but they and their family would be ruined in the process!  Thailand...where Joran lived for what about TWO YEARS and they supposedly wanted to question him about some missing Thai girls...but never had the opportunity?  jmo

 




It was an Anniversary Killing.

That means there are at least 6 including Natalee.

As Robots would say:  "Bet the farm."



JMO and only MO.


Good to see you and all the monkeys!

Lifesong, I have thought the same thing!  Did he kill one each year on the anniversary?

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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #217 on: January 15, 2012, 06:38:42 PM »

http://www.curacao-law.com/2007/11/26/aruba-criminal-law/

ARUBAN Statute of Limitations

ARUBA CRIMINAL LAW

Holloway case raises questions

I received several questions from US news channels about the legal system of Aruba. Basic information can be found on this official website: click here.

From another source (about Dutch law, to a large extent similar to Aruban law): The criminal justice legal process is divided into pretrial and trial phases. In the pretrial phase, intrusive measures such as telephone taps, searches of the person or premises are conducted to secure evidence. This is tempered through the provision of an attorney and notification to the suspect of the development of the case. The trial phase can be described as an accusatorial process. The purpose of the trial is to discover the truth. The court trial lacks some elements of a purely adversarial process in that while it is the judge who asks questions at the trial, attorneys are only allowed to ask supplementary questions, cross-examination does not exist.

All prohibited acts are classified either as crimes or felonies (misdrijven), infractions or transgressions (overtredingen). The legislature determines whether an offense constitutes a crime or an infraction. Imprisonment is only imposed for serious crimes. The minimum sentence is 1 day, the maximum is 15 years. Murder sentences can be extended to 20 years. A life sentence may be imposed for murder or manslaughter with aggravating circumstances, although this is rare.

According to the Aruba Penal Code (Article 72) with respect to adults (18 years and older):

    There is a 6 year statute of limitations on crimes with a maximum term of imprisonment of 3 years (involuntary manslaughter: max. 9 months imprisonment)
    There is a 12 year statute of limitations on crimes with a term of imprisonment of at least 3 years (voluntary manslaughter: max. 15 years and murder: max. 20 years imprisonment)
    There is a 18 year statute of limitations on crimes which result in a life sentence (e.g. murder committed by terrorists / kidnapping resulting in the death of the kidnapped person / killing someone to hide a crime: life sentence)

If you need anything further, please feel free to contact me at: Karel.Frielink@Spigthoff.com.

Karel Frielink
Curacao-based Attorney (lawyer) / Partner


~~~~~~

IIRC, they were arrested on suspicion of voluntary manslaughter, but ruled they didn't have enough evidence to support this.

The statute for the lesser crime of involuntary manslaughter has, surprise, already expired.

I would imagine the statute of limitations to be less for a juvenile, as it was specified that those statutes were for someone 18 or older.

I thought I had read 7 and 10 years, a while back, when I researched this last year, but I am wrong.  Sorry if I mislead anyone.

Further, I have no idea if the US HAS to wait for the Aruban statute of limitations  to expire in order to file a murder case in the US. They might if they were trying to extradite him specifically for that purpose, but since he would be "visiting" the US on other legal matters, he could be served with other suits.

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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #218 on: January 15, 2012, 06:44:11 PM »


Hey,

Is it just me... or did anyone else notice Mary Hamer's freaky deaky left index finger in the Anderson Cooper interview?

oooo weeeee!!! Get behind thee, Satan. It was skeery. The woman has many issues.

---

Still pleased with Joran's sentence! Like some others, I don't think he's going to be able to cope with it. His time is short.



It's not just you...something is wrong with that finger...maybe a fungus?   







Almost looks like a face on it in this one!   




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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Tibrogargan
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« Reply #219 on: January 15, 2012, 07:14:54 PM »


 


This is what I thought as well until murder charges were filed for that man who killed his wife on their honeymoon in Australia.  Charges were filed here even though the crime happened in Australia and he was convicted.

Hi Anna I thought those pics of Peter would bring you out of lurking   

That Gabe Watson was charged here in Australia for manslaughter and served 18 months and then extradited to Alabama where he was tried and convicted again.

Some interesting points in the following article :

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/02/honeymoon_killer_gabe_watson_t.php

"Honeymoon Killer" Gabe Watson Tried Again For Australian Scuba Death of Newlywed Wife


By Chris Parker in homicide
Friday, February 4, 2011 at 9:00 am

A dream come true turned into a nightmare for Tina Watson, who died for no apparent reason while diving in the Great Barrier Reef. On the verge of going to trial in Australia, her husband Gabe Watson plead guilty to manslaughter and served 18 months. Now he's in Alabama, where he's standing trial for murder...

There are no international rules about double jeopardy, so it's possible to try him here in America, so long as prosecutor can prove that Watson planned the murder before they left on their honeymoon

 ::snipping2::

He was extradited from Australia only after Alabama promised not to seek the death penalty.

 ::snipping2::
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