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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion # 863 1/13/12 - 2/07/12  (Read 263832 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #540 on: January 24, 2012, 08:41:41 PM »

http://justlife4me.com/life/anita-van-der-sloot-hugen-is-joran-van-der-sloots-mother-photos-video/

 ::snipping2::
“I think a part of me still wants to believe that it’s all a very bad movie,” Anita said. “But I thought immediately of the parents of [ Stephany ] … in a way, I lost my child, too. I hope that he gets a chance to talk with the parents of Stephany Flores  (Ramirez) , and that he can tell them what happened,” Anita said. “And I apologize for them … that he’s my son — he’s not a monster. He can be very gentle, but it could be that he has bipolar personality. I hope he gets the help. I’m not a policeman — I’m a mom,” she said. “I believe in karma, I believe that very strongly. I believe that if you do things that you shouldn’t do, that a lot of [expletive] happens to you,” Anita said. “He didn’t want to listen to his parents. He didn’t listen to me, this last time. I tried to do my best. I don’t think I could have done more. He’s considered an adult right now. He has to do whatever he needs to do, and that is tell the truth [about] what happened.”
 ::snipping2::



Stephany Flores

Jo-An
Re: JORAN VAN DER SLOOT MURDERS AGAIN?
 « Reply #265 on: June 19, 2010, 09:34:10 AM »


Interview with Anita van der Sloot - De Telegraaf - June 19th 2010

The actual interview:

Target

Anita: I now believe that Joran might have done something to Stephany in Peru. Maybe an act of rage? I don't know. I'm very saddened that that businessman Flores lost his daughter, and I my son. That's the way it feels like."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8032.msg1164835#msg1164835


Natalee Holloway

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF DUTCH SUSPECT: It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count. And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent. And it's just like a big nightmare. We don't know how to deal with it because you can't deal with it. We think about the family a lot because their life is a nightmare but our life is a nightmare, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #541 on: January 24, 2012, 09:15:56 PM »

Anita and Paulus van der Sloot are not victims.  Joran's parents must take responsibility for the shed blood of Natalee Holloway and Stephany Flores along with the devastating grief experienced by their respective families.  If only Joran had not been shielded by the adults in his life from the consequences of failing to adhere to the legal/moral boundaries established by a civilized society for his well-being and the well-being of others ... Natalee and Stephany would be pursuing their dreams.

Janet

+++++


The Enablers

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
Thursday, June 23, 2005


<snipped>

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He said, The truth will come forward, and I know that I didn't do anything to the girl. And the truth will come forward. And he was so strong.
And I believe in him. I believe so in him. ...It's extremely tough. He's in custody now for 13, 14 days, I think. I have lost count.  And I love my child. I believe in him 200 percent.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Summons and Complaint
Elizabeth Ann Twitty and Dave Edward Holloway
vs. Joran van der Sloot and Paulus van der Sloot


<snipped>

11. Joran van der Sloot is not stranger to sexual assault on woment.

12.  On at least three occasions prior to May, 2005, young Aruban women alleged that they were victims of "date rape" perpetrated by Joran and his accomplices.

13.  Using Ecstasy as his "date rape" drug of choice, Joran prowled the island, seeking to prey on young female tourists, especially blondes.

14 Joran’s proclivities, at a young age, were known to both of his parents, Paulus Van der Sloot and wife, Anita.

15. As recently as May 2005, Joran was receiving psychological counselling for his problems.

<snipped>

81. Defendant Paulus van der Sloot knew his minor child, Joran van der Sloot, had a long history of sexual assaults on young women.

<snipped>

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp5.html


DANA PRETZER- July 23, 2007

Dana Pretzer: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy Mansur:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.    I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
texasmom
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« Reply #542 on: January 24, 2012, 11:33:35 PM »

jamcakes

The published on-line articles of June 3, 2010 state that Joran van der Sloot was detained but no explanation in regards to the happenings encompassing that detainment.  However the words of Joran's confession printed in "Portrait of a Monster" imply that Joran surrendered.

Janet

++++

PORTRAIT OF A MONSTER
Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson

Page 242:
  "The following day,  I left and I was again in Vasco da Gama and while in the cab I saw a picture of myself in a newspaper and how they were looking for a Dutchman who was an assassin. ...."

Page 243:  "So I started talking with a cabbie and I said I have to surrender and he said, 'I have a cousin that is chief of police in Santiago, if you want I can call him.' ...."

"An hour hour went by, and the police came to the cab in a regular vehicle, not a police car, where I got in and was driven to the immigration office in Santiago ...."


Chile Police Detain Joran Van Der Sloot in Peru Murder
Published June 03, 2010


<snipped>

The suspect, Joran van der Sloot, was escorted by three police officers as he was taken from a dark vehicle into a police office in downtown Santiago, Chile. He made no comment as he entered, walking calmly and without handcuffs as journalists shouted his name.

Van der Sloot was detained while traveling in a taxi, about halfway to the coast on Route 68, said Prefect Alfredo Espinosa, chief national spokesman for Chile's investigative police. The suspect did not resist and has been calm in detention, Espinosa said.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/03/chile-police-detain-dutchman-peru-killing-years-holloway-slaying-aruba/



For some reason (LOL) I don't believe a word that Joran says.  Not that the media always gets it right either.... but, I still can't picture Joran turning himself in.

Thanks for providing the quotes on the subject.


I can't either, jamcakes.   

This is another excerpt from the book by Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson.
IMO, it's probably closer to the truth of the matter.
 

Portrait of a Monster
Joran van der Sloot, A Murder in Peru, and the Natalee Holloway Mystery

By:  Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson

Pages 162-163

Chapter Sixteen

June 3, 2010
Santiago, Chile

 ::snipping2::

Joran had been in the coastal town of Vina del Mar when he hired the cab.  He was familiar with Vina del Mar.  It was renowned for its nightlife and gambling, and was supposed to have been the final stop on the Latin American Poker Tour, before the powerful 8.8-magnitude earthquake that past February had compelled the organizers to relocate the event to Peru.  Vina del Mar was an immaculate resort town with a climate similar to the Mediterranean, gorgeous palm-lined boulevards, high-end hotels, and casinos, including the historic Casino del Mar, the first and largest in Chile.  It had been spared catastrophic damage from the quake and was, for the most part, back in business.

Three days had passed since Joran bilked the Peruvian taxi drivers back in Arica.  Since then, he had traveled nearly 1,200 miles down the Chilean coast to Vina del Mar.  The morning fog hovered over the town as he climbed into the backseat of a private taxi he had hired to take him to the capital city of Santiago de Chile, about eighty-five miles southeast on Highway 68.  Despite what he had told the cabdrivers, he somehow still had access to funds.   

::snipping2::

Joran was filled with anxiety that morning.  He had seen his picture in the newspaper, and he knew he was a wanted man.  Still, he was determined to get to Santiago, hoping he could "disappear" among the five million people that called the city home.  From there he would be able to pursue escape options to either Aruba or Holland.

 ::snipping2::

Just before 12:30 P.M., the taxi entered the Zapata Tunnel, a one-mile long mountain pass just west of Curacavi.  On the other side, the highway widens into multiple feeder lanes as it approaches the massive toll plaza bisecting the road.  Spotting the booths ahead, Joran crouched down in the backseat, trying to make himself invisible as the taxi driver slowed to pay the toll.  But his height made hiding impossible and his odd behavior drew the attention of the toll collector.

All tollbooth attendants had been placed on high alert since Chilean authorities had notified them of a suspected murderer on the run from Peru the previous day.  This passenger seemed to resemble the description that had been provided, and an alert witness contacted the highway authority.  Within moments, blue-and-white police vehicles converged on the scene and Joran's fugitive status came to an abrupt halt.

Officers didn't know what to expect when they ordered Van der Sloot out of the vehicle.  Many were surprised by his indifference.  He looked almost relieved that this flight had come to an end and did not resist in any way.

TV news crews were waiting at the Borgono police barracks in the Independencia district in the northern part of Santiago, fifteen miles from the toll plaza.  Journalists had been tipped off that Stephany Flores's alleged killer had been captured on Highway 68 outside of Curacavi.

 ::snipping2::

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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« Reply #543 on: January 24, 2012, 11:37:45 PM »


Drinking is not anything new for Anita, it has been the tie that binds and opens up the minds of those "friends" of hers, that were more than happy to suck up and then spew her lies for years imo.  Some of them were probably not long time residents (just part of IFA) so they didn't know enough about the family to question what they were told.  But some DID and DO know better.  Anita had the advantage of a kind of automatic respect that most would have to earn because of her position as a teacher at the International School for all these years.  And she used it, and still does.  Her interactions and "friendships" with students of hers on facebook would be frowned upon if not forbidden here.  JMO but I think there are probably those, especially ones that had children say Sebastian's age who's eyes were eventually opened to the not so respectable lives the Van der Sloot's actually lead there and the problems that it seems more than one of their children have.  With the number of people that go there and spend a couple years and then come back to the states, or where ever they were from; many in positions that put their children in the International School...it has been easy for Anita to manipulate people, many that never saw the whole picture about that family.  Again, jmo.   

 



Post of the day  IMO

 ::justice2NJ::


Thanks Tibro!   

 ::justice2NJ::
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #544 on: January 25, 2012, 12:02:17 AM »

jamcakes

The published on-line articles of June 3, 2010 state that Joran van der Sloot was detained but no explanation in regards to the happenings encompassing that detainment.  However the words of Joran's confession printed in "Portrait of a Monster" imply that Joran surrendered.

Janet

++++

PORTRAIT OF A MONSTER
Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson

Page 242:
  "The following day,  I left and I was again in Vasco da Gama and while in the cab I saw a picture of myself in a newspaper and how they were looking for a Dutchman who was an assassin. ...."

Page 243:  "So I started talking with a cabbie and I said I have to surrender and he said, 'I have a cousin that is chief of police in Santiago, if you want I can call him.' ...."

"An hour hour went by, and the police came to the cab in a regular vehicle, not a police car, where I got in and was driven to the immigration office in Santiago ...."


Chile Police Detain Joran Van Der Sloot in Peru Murder
Published June 03, 2010


<snipped>

The suspect, Joran van der Sloot, was escorted by three police officers as he was taken from a dark vehicle into a police office in downtown Santiago, Chile. He made no comment as he entered, walking calmly and without handcuffs as journalists shouted his name.

Van der Sloot was detained while traveling in a taxi, about halfway to the coast on Route 68, said Prefect Alfredo Espinosa, chief national spokesman for Chile's investigative police. The suspect did not resist and has been calm in detention, Espinosa said.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/03/chile-police-detain-dutchman-peru-killing-years-holloway-slaying-aruba/



For some reason (LOL) I don't believe a word that Joran says.  Not that the media always gets it right either.... but, I still can't picture Joran turning himself in.

Thanks for providing the quotes on the subject.


jamcakes

If it were not for the what appears to be affirmation by the Peruvian interrogator that Joran van der Sloot did indeed surrendered to Chilean authorities... I too  would have doubted Joran's claim in his confession.

Janet

+++++

Joran van der Sloot's Confession
Posted on Jun 15, 2010 @ 01:05PM

 
<snipped>

43. Have you voluntarily surrendered or were the brothers and Aparcana Pisconte EURIB Pretil who suggested that?

- Yes, I have voluntarily surrendered. It was my decision.

<snipped>

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloots-confession-read-entire-document-here


Van der Sloot's lawyer files for reduced sentence
January 23, 2012


On Monday, Joran Van der Sloot’s lawyer, Luis Jimenez, filed a motion to reduce the Dutchman’s 28-year prison sentence.

"I am questioning the content of the sentence and asking for a reduction of the years [of the sentence]," Jimenez said to El Comercio.

He did not say how many years he wanted the sentence reduced by.

Jimenez said the request was being made because the court said the defendant had not collaborated with authorities.

The Dutchman’s lawyer argues the opposite is true.

"He was not captured in Chile, he turned himself in […] and gave details of how he had committed the crime."

<snipped>

http://www.peruthisweek.com/news-1426-Van-der-Sloots-lawyer-files-for-reduced-sentence/


Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
texasmom
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« Reply #545 on: January 25, 2012, 12:04:47 AM »

I don't believe for one minute that Anita is heartbroken or has given up on Joran.  He had the "new" Anita picture on his phone.  They both blame others for their situation.  They are both full of anger.  

Do Dutch widows routinely change their name back to a version of their maiden name?

Who does she blame for Paulus's untimely death?  Joran or the Holloways and the court of public opinion?

I wonder what those who criticized Natalee's loved ones for drinking are thinking about Anita's new pasttime?


Drinking is not anything new for Anita, it has been the tie that binds and opens up the minds of those "friends" of hers, that were more than happy to suck up and then spew her lies for years imo.  Some of them were probably not long time residents (just part of IFA) so they didn't know enough about the family to question what they were told.  But some DID and DO know better.  Anita had the advantage of a kind of automatic respect that most would have to earn because of her position as a teacher at the International School for all these years.  And she used it, and still does.  Her interactions and "friendships" with students of hers on facebook would be frowned upon if not forbidden here.  JMO but I think there are probably those, especially ones that had children say Sebastian's age whose eyes were eventually opened to the not so respectable lives the Van der Sloot's actually lead there and the problems that it seems more than one of their children have.  With the number of people that go there and spend a couple years and then come back to the states, or where ever they were from; many in positions that put their children in the International School...it has been easy for Anita to manipulate people, many that never saw the whole picture about that family. Again, jmo.  

I agree.  How many times have we said that Joran was just like his father.  I am beginning to think that Joran is just like his mother.  She is evil.

BBM, Absolutely. 

The monster that Joran became was contributed to by them both though.  Each in their own ways.  And even after they saw what he was capable of; they continued to enable him...and protect him.

jmo

 
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
jamcakes
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« Reply #546 on: January 25, 2012, 03:19:27 AM »



I can't either, jamcakes.  

This is another excerpt from the book by Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson.
IMO, it's probably closer to the truth of the matter.
  

Portrait of a Monster
Joran van der Sloot, A Murder in Peru, and the Natalee Holloway Mystery

By:  Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson

Pages 162-163

Chapter Sixteen

June 3, 2010
Santiago, Chile

 ::snipping2::

Joran had been in the coastal town of Vina del Mar when he hired the cab.  He was familiar with Vina del Mar.  It was renowned for its nightlife and gambling, and was supposed to have been the final stop on the Latin American Poker Tour, before the powerful 8.8-magnitude earthquake that past February had compelled the organizers to relocate the event to Peru.  Vina del Mar was an immaculate resort town with a climate similar to the Mediterranean, gorgeous palm-lined boulevards, high-end hotels, and casinos, including the historic Casino del Mar, the first and largest in Chile.  It had been spared catastrophic damage from the quake and was, for the most part, back in business.

Three days had passed since Joran bilked the Peruvian taxi drivers back in Arica.  Since then, he had traveled nearly 1,200 miles down the Chilean coast to Vina del Mar.  The morning fog hovered over the town as he climbed into the backseat of a private taxi he had hired to take him to the capital city of Santiago de Chile, about eighty-five miles southeast on Highway 68.  Despite what he had told the cabdrivers, he somehow still had access to funds.  

::snipping2::

Joran was filled with anxiety that morning.  He had seen his picture in the newspaper, and he knew he was a wanted man.  Still, he was determined to get to Santiago, hoping he could "disappear" among the five million people that called the city home.  From there he would be able to pursue escape options to either Aruba or Holland.

 ::snipping2::

Just before 12:30 P.M., the taxi entered the Zapata Tunnel, a one-mile long mountain pass just west of Curacavi.  On the other side, the highway widens into multiple feeder lanes as it approaches the massive toll plaza bisecting the road.  Spotting the booths ahead, Joran crouched down in the backseat, trying to make himself invisible as the taxi driver slowed to pay the toll.  But his height made hiding impossible and his odd behavior drew the attention of the toll collector.

All tollbooth attendants had been placed on high alert since Chilean authorities had notified them of a suspected murderer on the run from Peru the previous day.  This passenger seemed to resemble the description that had been provided, and an alert witness contacted the highway authority.  Within moments, blue-and-white police vehicles converged on the scene and Joran's fugitive status came to an abrupt halt.

Officers didn't know what to expect when they ordered Van der Sloot out of the vehicle.  Many were surprised by his indifference.  He looked almost relieved that this flight had come to an end and did not resist in any way.

TV news crews were waiting at the Borgono police barracks in the Independencia district in the northern part of Santiago, fifteen miles from the toll plaza.  Journalists had been tipped off that Stephany Flores's alleged killer had been captured on Highway 68 outside of Curacavi.

 ::snipping2::



Thanks Texasmom.

This seems a more believable version.  I remember reading in the news dated and timed updates of his apprehension.

My rule of thumb is, if Joran says it, there may be a tiny hidden bit of the truth in it.  But don't hold your breath!
(Edit-fix quotes.  MB)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:44:11 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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jamcakes
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« Reply #547 on: January 25, 2012, 03:21:46 AM »

Oops, sorry TexasMom for posting in your box.  Gee, I guess I better use preview b4 I post from now on.
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« Reply #548 on: January 25, 2012, 03:24:30 AM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/joran-van-der-sloot-appeal_n_1229012.html

Joran Van Der Sloot Appeals 28-Year Murder Sentence

 ::snipping2::

On Monday, van der Sloot's lawyer, Luis Jimenez, filed a motion to reduce his client's prison sentence.

"I am questioning the content of the sentence and asking for a reduction of the years [of the sentence]," Jimenez told El Comercio.

On Jan. 13, Van der Sloot was sentenced to 28 years in prison, for the murder of Stephany Flores.

Jimenez said he has made the request because the three judges who sentenced Van der Sloot did not take into account his client's cooperation with police.

"He was not captured in Chile, he turned himself in," the attorney said.

Jimenez's statement about van der Sloot's arrest is in direct contrast to how Chilean police had described taking him into custody on June 3, 2010. Officials then said Van der Sloot was traveling near the Chilean-Peru border when he was apprehended and taken to a police station in Santiago. No mention was made of surrender.

 ::snipping2::

After his arrest in Chili, van der Sloot had allegedly insisted he did not kill Flores, Chilean police said.

Van der Sloot's attorney now claims his client cooperated by giving police a confession.

"[He] gave details of how he had committed the crime," Jimenez told El Comercio.

The validity of Jimenez's claim is somewhat questionable.

 ::snipping2::
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #549 on: January 25, 2012, 03:25:31 AM »

Oops, sorry TexasMom for posting in your box.  Gee, I guess I better use preview b4 I post from now on.

No problem, it happens to us all sometimes!   
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #550 on: January 25, 2012, 11:37:04 AM »

While thinking about Joran's flight to Chile and subsequent detainment - this dawned on me:

Joran is not protected by Mafia – not now or then

Occam’s Razor = K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Occam’s Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Some of us believed that Joran was involved in money laundering and/or pornography/sex trafficking in order to explain  the how’s and why’s of NAH’s disappearance.

FOR:
1.   b/c of Posner’s connections with the Chicago mob and him owning the Excelsior Casino
2.   Joran’s access to a lot of money
3.   as explanation for Joran’s privileges on the island
4.   as explanation for Joran being “untouchable” and getting away with it
5.   Chicago money backing Deepak’s and Satish’s lawsuit against Dr Phil
6.    rumor of Paulus traveling to Miami shortly after NAH disappeared

AGAINST:
1.   Joran was broke and desperate in Peru just prior to killing Stephany
2.   If Joran was connected to the mob, they could have helped him escape in Chile or taken him out in what looked like an accident while Joran was on the run after  killing Stephany
3.   Mob would not have allowed Joran to live and make so many public interviews regarding NAH – they could (and would) have taken him out to ensure his silence
4.   Chicago money could be anyone with grudge against Dr Phil and/or Oprah’s Harpo Productions

So to keep it simple:
Joran got away with NAH murder/disappearance due to his families influence in Aruban society, who knew the right people in high places, and an Aruba who was more concerned with their own image and their bottom line in the tourism industry.
Joran didn't get away with it in Peru b/c his family had no pull there, and he is and was never afforded protection by the mob

jmo
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« Reply #551 on: January 25, 2012, 12:27:56 PM »

While thinking about Joran's flight to Chile and subsequent detainment - this dawned on me:

Joran is not protected by Mafia – not now or then

Occam’s Razor = K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Occam’s Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Some of us believed that Joran was involved in money laundering and/or pornography/sex trafficking in order to explain  the how’s and why’s of NAH’s disappearance.

FOR:
1.   b/c of Posner’s connections with the Chicago mob and him owning the Excelsior Casino
2.   Joran’s access to a lot of money
3.   as explanation for Joran’s privileges on the island
4.   as explanation for Joran being “untouchable” and getting away with it
5.   Chicago money backing Deepak’s and Satish’s lawsuit against Dr Phil
6.    rumor of Paulus traveling to Miami shortly after NAH disappeared

AGAINST:
1.   Joran was broke and desperate in Peru just prior to killing Stephany
2.   If Joran was connected to the mob, they could have helped him escape in Chile or taken him out in what looked like an accident while Joran was on the run after  killing Stephany
3.   Mob would not have allowed Joran to live and make so many public interviews regarding NAH – they could (and would) have taken him out to ensure his silence
4.   Chicago money could be anyone with grudge against Dr Phil and/or Oprah’s Harpo Productions

So to keep it simple:
Joran got away with NAH murder/disappearance due to his families influence in Aruban society, who knew the right people in high places, and an Aruba who was more concerned with their own image and their bottom line in the tourism industry.
Joran didn't get away with it in Peru b/c his family had no pull there, and he is and was never afforded protection by the mob

jmo



IMOO

Occam's razor = Joran's attorney defended John Gotti

jmo
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« Reply #552 on: January 25, 2012, 12:44:01 PM »

While thinking about Joran's flight to Chile and subsequent detainment - this dawned on me:

Joran is not protected by Mafia – not now or then

Occam’s Razor = K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Occam’s Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Some of us believed that Joran was involved in money laundering and/or pornography/sex trafficking in order to explain  the how’s and why’s of NAH’s disappearance.

FOR:
1.   b/c of Posner’s connections with the Chicago mob and him owning the Excelsior Casino
2.   Joran’s access to a lot of money
3.   as explanation for Joran’s privileges on the island
4.   as explanation for Joran being “untouchable” and getting away with it
5.   Chicago money backing Deepak’s and Satish’s lawsuit against Dr Phil
6.    rumor of Paulus traveling to Miami shortly after NAH disappeared

AGAINST:
1.   Joran was broke and desperate in Peru just prior to killing Stephany
2.   If Joran was connected to the mob, they could have helped him escape in Chile or taken him out in what looked like an accident while Joran was on the run after  killing Stephany
3.   Mob would not have allowed Joran to live and make so many public interviews regarding NAH – they could (and would) have taken him out to ensure his silence
4.   Chicago money could be anyone with grudge against Dr Phil and/or Oprah’s Harpo Productions

So to keep it simple:
Joran got away with NAH murder/disappearance due to his families influence in Aruban society, who knew the right people in high places, and an Aruba who was more concerned with their own image and their bottom line in the tourism industry.
Joran didn't get away with it in Peru b/c his family had no pull there, and he is and was never afforded protection by the mob

jmo


You are correct. imo

Joran was not connected to the mob... he was connected to the SLOB, Paulus. No matter how many professional contacts and family connections Paul called in for him, and there were many, he continued to burn through all of them and spit right in his dad's face.

Yup. Paul supported Joran and gave him money to play around the world... and instead of learning something useful with his time, he peed it away and put his father in the grave. As soon as Paulus slammed down on the concrete, the clock was ticking away until Joran imploded.

Paul let him play around the world for about four years. Joran could not stand on his own two feet for a measly 4 months.

I want to write a song called "Ode to the Bastard of Boxtel" ... Thanks for nothin' asho.

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« Reply #553 on: January 25, 2012, 01:24:38 PM »


 
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #554 on: January 25, 2012, 01:26:44 PM »

I would think Posner was furious with Joran for bringing scandal to his casino.  Not a move favored with the mob, IMO.  No one seems to be inclined in the least to come to the aid of Joran except for the delusional Dr.
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« Reply #555 on: January 25, 2012, 01:31:51 PM »




IMOO

Occam's razor = Joran's attorney defended John Gotti

jmo

Joran's attorney was Joe Tacopina.  On Tacopina's list of notable cases, it lists Joran, but not Gotti. http://www.tacopinalaw.com/notable-cases/

I Googled John Gotti's lawyers and they listed Bruce Cutler and Roy Cohn.

Would you provide proof that Joran's attorney defended John Gotti or vice versa.  Thanks.
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« Reply #556 on: January 25, 2012, 01:31:54 PM »

"No sentences Joran '

AMSTERDAM - The chance that Joran lower penalty imposed is zero. Suggests that a criminal expert from Peru, after Van der Sloot's lawyer rather an annulment of the award requested.

 ::snipping2::

According to criminal law expert Giovanna Gismondi, there is little basis for this statement will be amended. The court examines the request and must be received in April inconclusive.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/11365018/___Geen_strafvermindering_Joran___.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

The judges made it crystal clear that the fact that Joran tried to retract his confession just about cancelled it.  He got two years reduction in sentence for it and that was all they deemed it was worth. 

I don't see their altering a thing about his sentence.

Now I just wonder when he will be brought to Alabama to stand trial on the federal extortion charges and how many years he will get for that to add on to the 28 he already has. 
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« Reply #557 on: January 25, 2012, 01:46:16 PM »




IMOO

Occam's razor = Joran's attorney defended John Gotti

jmo

Joran's attorney was Joe Tacopina.  On Tacopina's list of notable cases, it lists Joran, but not Gotti. http://www.tacopinalaw.com/notable-cases/

I Googled John Gotti's lawyers and they listed Bruce Cutler and Roy Cohn.

Would you provide proof that Joran's attorney defended John Gotti or vice versa.  Thanks.

http://cityfile.com/profiles/joseph-tacopina

Who

Mobsters, murderers, and molesters have all found a friend in defense attorney Joseph Tacopina.
Backstory

Tacopina was born and raised in Sheepshead Bay and wrestled as a Poly Prep high school student. He set his sights on a law career while at Skidmore—he says the true crime novel Fatal Vision inspired him—and after graduating from the University of Bridgeport's law school, he landed a gig assisting Bruce Cutler (a fellow Poly Prep alum) on the Gotti murder trial of 1992. Cutler was soon kicked off the case, and Tacopina headed off to become an assistant district attorney in Brooklyn. In 1995 he went into private practice, although he didn't do so with a long list of clients in hand. (He says he worked a night job checking coats at a hotel for a spell to pay the bills.) Tacopina's career took off when he got involved in the "Morgue Boys" trial, in which three Brooklyn cops were accused of stealing cash and drugs while on duty. Since then, Tacopina has represented a bunch of cops-gone-bad, including Thomas Wiese, who was accused in the assault on Abner Louima, and former police officer Anthony Vasquez, who shot an unarmed man named Patrick Dorismond during a scuffle.

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« Reply #558 on: January 25, 2012, 02:00:44 PM »

While thinking about Joran's flight to Chile and subsequent detainment - this dawned on me:

Joran is not protected by Mafia – not now or then

Occam’s Razor = K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Occam’s Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Some of us believed that Joran was involved in money laundering and/or pornography/sex trafficking in order to explain  the how’s and why’s of NAH’s disappearance.

FOR:
1.   b/c of Posner’s connections with the Chicago mob and him owning the Excelsior Casino
2.   Joran’s access to a lot of money
3.   as explanation for Joran’s privileges on the island
4.   as explanation for Joran being “untouchable” and getting away with it
5.   Chicago money backing Deepak’s and Satish’s lawsuit against Dr Phil
6.    rumor of Paulus traveling to Miami shortly after NAH disappeared

AGAINST:
1.   Joran was broke and desperate in Peru just prior to killing Stephany
2.   If Joran was connected to the mob, they could have helped him escape in Chile or taken him out in what looked like an accident while Joran was on the run after  killing Stephany
3.   Mob would not have allowed Joran to live and make so many public interviews regarding NAH – they could (and would) have taken him out to ensure his silence
4.   Chicago money could be anyone with grudge against Dr Phil and/or Oprah’s Harpo Productions

So to keep it simple:
Joran got away with NAH murder/disappearance due to his families influence in Aruban society, who knew the right people in high places, and an Aruba who was more concerned with their own image and their bottom line in the tourism industry.
Joran didn't get away with it in Peru b/c his family had no pull there, and he is and was never afforded protection by the mob

jmo



IMOO

Occam's razor = Joran's attorney defended John Gotti

jmo

 

Was Joran van der Sloot a participant in furthering Aruba's underground economies?  Think about it.  Joran's age implies he should never have been allowed on the premises of the Excelsior Casino.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of Carlos and Charlies'.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Radisson Casino.  He should never have been allowed on the premises of the Wyndham Casino.  Yet he was not only given free access to these establishments ... give free n access to unsuspecting young women ... he was afforded drinking and gambling privileges.

Why did Casino/Club management ... Paulus van der Sloot and ... Aruban authorities turn a blind eye to the illegal activities of underage Joran and his cohorts?  Could it be that Joran was a participant ... a front ... a lure in the furthering of specific Aruban underground activities?

I suspect that to assure his silence the Aruban "powers that be" are behind the scenes in Peru attempting to appease Joran while at the same time pacifying Stephany Flores influencial father who fully comprehends that the one who brutally murdered his daughter has been afforded special privileges since "the first day" in Peruvian lockup.

However ... if Joran's silence cannot be assured in regards to his participation in Aruba's underground economies ... regarding the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 as well as those who were involved and ... regarding the corrupt investigation that protected him and denied Natalee Holloway justice ... Joran will be taken out.  The mob will not allow the Aruban house of cards to collapse.

IMO

Janet

++++++

Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM


February 23, 2006 (WLS) -- Authorities on the island of Aruba have not been able to solve the mystery of what happened to Alabama teenager Natalie Holloway. She disappeared while on a high school trip last spring. The ABC7 I-Team has learned new details about the casino where Holloway was last seen, an Aruba casino run by a convicted high-ranking Chicago mobster.

The unsolved disappearance of 18-year-old Natalie Holloway has commanded worldwide attention. It has been widely reported that the last place Holloway was known to be alive was the Excelsior casino connected to the Holiday Inn where she and her classmates were staying.
 
The I-Team has learned thatthe casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.

According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club.

Through his Chicago lawyer, Posner maintains that he has been clean for 15 years and since 1998 has operated the Excelsior casino on the Caribbean resort on the island of Aruba.
 
Last May, honor student Natalie Holloway was staying at the resort on her high school graduation trip when she disappeared. One of the last places she was seen alive was in Posner's Excelsior casino.
 
In security tape obtained by ABC News, Holloway is seen at a table seated next to Joran van der Sloot, a local who is the prime suspect in the case

<snipped>

Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.
 
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339
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« Reply #559 on: January 25, 2012, 02:04:36 PM »

ARUBA'S UNDERGROUND ECONOMY - WAS JORAN A PARTICIPANT?

1. All are Participants

'Scarborough Country' for August 26
updated 12:49 p.m. PT, Mon., Aug. 29, 2005


JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, “DIARIO”:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

<snipped>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


2. Excelsior Casino - Paulus van der Sloot

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for April 3
updated 8:24 a.m. PT, Tues., April. 4, 2006


<snipped>

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


3.  Auban Authorities

Jossy Mansur - DANA PRETZER- July 23, 2007


Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.    I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/


4. Carlos N' Charlies'

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005


After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0


5.  Carlos N' Charlies'

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005


Then Natalee said that she also wanted to drink a Jellyshot but the bartender told me that that bar was closed. After that Natalee and me walked to another bar that was still open at that time.  I asked the bartender two shots of Bacardi 151. I still had the whisky coke in my hand. Natalee asked me if she should drink the Bacardi 151 in one go. I answered her affirmatively and she answered me that she would do it in two. Natalee said to me that she needed a "chaser" in order to drink the Bacardi. Natalee drank my whisky coke as a "chaser" and then she drank the Bacardi 151 in two goes. I payed for the two shots of Bacardi 151. I do not know where Deepak stood at that moment but according to me Satish was still standing beside me. I did not ask for another kind of alcoholic beverage because I always drink Bacardi 151. Bacardi 151 is 151 proof and that means that it is 75.5% alcohol. I payed U.S. $ 20,- for the two shots of Bacardi 151.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0
 

6. Excelsior Casino

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:
  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron tdesk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."
 

7. Radisson Casino

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - June 13, 2005


Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino.  I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=182.0


8. Tempting Poses

Aruba Suspects Accused of Taking Sex Photos of Another Girl
Thursday, September 01, 2005


The Kalpoe brothers were released July 4 and rearrested last week with a friend of the three young men, Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis (search), 21.
 
Zedan-Arambatzis, who is not suspected of involvement in the Holloway case, is accused of taking photos of a minor female in "tempting poses" and of showing the photos to other people, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia. He is also suspected of having unspecified "physical contact" with the girl, she said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incident, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, Emerencia said.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168233,00.html


9.  Carlos N' Charlies'

'The Abrams Report' for August 4
updated 8:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 5, 2005


<snipped>

TWITTY:  You know it's a pretty long scenario; we have a lot of details.  You know the main thing to sum it up is you know Joran, how he entered this establishment.  I believe that you know if you enter on the right side, you have to have a valid I.D.  If you enter Carlos N' Charlie's on the left side, you must have some type of—I don't know if it's a VIP pass or what to enter, but Joran enters the establishment on the left side, approaches these groups of tourists. 

You know it's interesting how he is able to try to work his way in and connect and establish himself in that—in Carlos N' Charlie's, was walking her around and these other tourists and was able to point out Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.  They were sitting ironically in the same corner, the same stools that they were seated at in the picture that's been all over international media, so that must be their spot that they wait while Joran is working.

<snipped>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838598
 

10. Various Hotels

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspect Statement - June 10, 2005

To your question as to what role Joran plays in our circle of friends, I can state the following. He has no real role. We are all the same.

To your question as to where we take the girls we pick up, I can state the following. Sometimes the girls stay at "Carlos & Charlies" or sometimes we take them to their hotel.

To your question was to what exactly happens when we have picked up the girls, I can state the following. Just kissing and dancing.

To your question whether sexual intercourse has happened, I can state the following. Yes, it has happened.

To your question whether it ever happened that all of us, so in one room, had sexual intercourse, I can state the following. It has happened.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=215.0

 
11. Excelsior Casino - Paulus van der Sloot

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Sept. 19th
updated 9/20/2005 9:33:56 AM ET


<snipped>

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  Well, there was a phone call made.  And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.

<snipped>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


12.  Excelsior Casino

Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM


February 23, 2006 (WLS) -- Authorities on the island of Aruba have not been able to solve the mystery of what happened to Alabama teenager Natalie Holloway. She disappeared while on a high school trip last spring. The ABC7 I-Team has learned new details about the casino where Holloway was last seen, an Aruba casino run by a convicted high-ranking Chicago mobster.

The unsolved disappearance of 18-year-old Natalie Holloway has commanded worldwide attention. It has been widely reported that the last place Holloway was known to be alive was the Excelsior casino connected to the Holiday Inn where she and her classmates were staying.
 
The I-Team has learned thatthe casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.

According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club.

Through his Chicago lawyer, Posner maintains that he has been clean for 15 years and since 1998 has operated the Excelsior casino on the Caribbean resort on the island of Aruba.
 
Last May, honor student Natalie Holloway was staying at the resort on her high school graduation trip when she disappeared. One of the last places she was seen alive was in Posner's Excelsior casino.
 
In security tape obtained by ABC News, Holloway is seen at a table seated next to Joran van der Sloot, a local who is the prime suspect in the case

<snipped>

Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.

Posner says he has paid the expenses for private investigators to come here and assist in the search for Holloway and according to his lawyer: "He has nothin' to do with nothing" in the murder case.
 
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339


Michael Posner Upset over Excelsior casino Security Tapes to ABC

Posted February 25, 2006 by Scared Monkeys

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/

s.t.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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