Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion # 863 1/13/12 - 2/07/12

[cecilita]

Good Morning Monkeys,
I think that this crazy woman and Mr. Jimenez were trying to buy the judges but it didn't happen. Joran expenses don't justify the 74,000 dollars. I bet they tried to buy the judges before his sentence but it didn't work out!! i noticed that bc the judges were women. In Peru women are considered not easy to be corrupted. Now she is claiming that she didn't expected that sentence? why was she expecting? what was she told? that the judges will be paid for a reduced sentence? more emails to come ..lets wait

[texasmom]

Just my opinion, the crosses out part of the Joran letter says: I will make sure you get it (back asap?).
The first part seems readable, I will make sure you get it
the "back asap" part is what I see. Others might see something different.
Makes since why he would cross that part off, he isnt returning money to anyone

I actually did look to see if anyone had responded before I just posted what I think it says, and I didn't see your post until AFTER I'd posted.

 

I can see the first part of the sentence better, so I think we're right about what it says.

 

[crazybabyborg]

Letter to aunt Joran Joran is angry with his aunt Mary Hammer. This he writes in a letter our team in Lima with his consent should have been allowed to see and photograph. From this letter, written on January 13, 2012, also shows that Joran would appeal against the ruling of the court. He was in Lima Friday to 28 years in prison convicted of the murder of Stephany Flores.

 Joran writes:

 "Mary,

 I want you to know that my satisfaction with Mr. Jimenez and his work. We will appeal against the ruling and it will be less. Plus, remember that in Peru only 1 / 3 of your sentence having to sit. You will always have a place in my heart, but what you doing to me now I do not understand. Why do you hurt me? In all that time that I know, I never expected of you. I asked Mr. Jimenez, the money you sent me is not to your return. He wanted to send it right back when you were asked. I want to share with you a statement: "Do not wait for the Last Judgement, it happens every day." You will always have a place in my heart, but what you did is not something I can handle. I love you, but I have so much pain that you can not imagine. Give me the time, until it is over. I am being punished because I had a phone, because you emails sent me to the press. I still can not believe it, but you got me worried more problems than you can imagine, and my fellow prisoners feel the situation. I am exhausted and am now trying to sleep. I hope everything is well with you and I wish you nothing but the best.

 Lovingly, Joran "

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/top-nieuws/2012/brief-joran-aan-suikertante/

Images of the letter at link. There is one line he has crossed out I am trying to figure out what was there. How does he know that Sugar Mary sent the emails to the press? 

Ohhhhh, this is rich. To be as educated as Mary is, you'd think she would have run across this old fable:

A young girl was trudging along a mountain path, trying to reach her grandmother's house.
It was bitter cold, and the wind cut like a knife.
When she was within sight of her destination, she heard a rustle at her feet.

Looking down, she saw a snake.
Before she could move, the snake spoke to her.
He said, "I am about to die.
It is too cold for me up here, and I am freezing.
There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving.
Please put me under your coat and take me with you."

"No," replied the girl. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake.
If I pick you up, you will bite me, and your bite is poisonous."

"No, no," said the snake. "If you help me, you will be my best friend.
I will treat you differently."

The little girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over.
She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and had to admit that it was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.

Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you.
All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."

The little girl reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and proceeded toward her grandmother's house.

Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side.
The snake had bitten her.

"How could you do this to me?" she cried.
"You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"

"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake as he slithered away.

Yep, Mary. That would be Joran's tail you're viewing as he slithers away. I don't see her as a victim. She would have provided an avenue to let Joran hurt someone else if she could have. I put her in a similar category as Anita and Paulus. They have all been enablers, no matter what the motives were.

[Northern Rose]

 ::snipping2::

Joran was Friday sentenced to 28 years in prison and wrote the letter that same day. Because the woman emails leaked to the press was best known in his cell that Dutchman enjoyed special privileges. Partly as a result he was transferred to a tougher prison, much to the annoyance of Van der Sloot.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1013/Buitenland/article/detail/3122261/2012/01/15/Joran-schrijft-beschermengel-Mary-Hamer-boze-brief.dhtml

[texasmom]

Good Morning Monkeys,
I think that this crazy woman and Mr. Jimenez were trying to buy the judges but it didn't happen. Joran expenses don't justify the 74,000 dollars. I bet they tried to buy the judges before his sentence but it didn't work out!! i noticed that bc the judges were women. In Peru women are considered not easy to be corrupted. Now she is claiming that she didn't expected that sentence? why was she expecting? what was she told? that the judges will be paid for a reduced sentence? more emails to come ..lets wait

Good morning cecilita,

It's interesting (or maybe ironic) to me that the amount of money that Mary gave them is the amount of the civil damages Joran will have to pay the Flores family.

Do any of your friends or family in Peru have any idea if Joran had been released before the trial how much bail might have been?  You know after the eighteen months passed, they were going to try to get him out of jail until the trial.  My understanding is that he would have been required to stay there in Peru, so maybe that's why he had the apartment?  I'm just wondering if it was fair to assume that bail may have been that same amount?

Thanks in advance!

[Northern Rose]

Just my opinion, the crosses out part of the Joran letter says: I will make sure you get it (back asap?).
The first part seems readable, I will make sure you get it
the "back asap" part is what I see. Others might see something different.
Makes since why he would cross that part off, he isnt returning money to anyone

I actually did look to see if anyone had responded before I just posted what I think it says, and I didn't see your post until AFTER I'd posted.

 

I can see the first part of the sentence better, so I think we're right about what it says.

 

Thank you all!  I was disappointed he did not close the letter with "Come Across"

[wreck]

Hi everyone!! I've been here -- just reading mostly. I guess it all now boils down to how we can extract where Natalee is from Joran before he is "offed" in Peru. I'm afraid that window is rapidly closing.

 

[Northern Rose]

Beyond luxury for Joran
 Joran van der Sloot after his conviction has not said a word. Also he would hardly eat. He was transferred to a strict prison, without privacy and luxury.
 
 ::snipping2::

 He was immediately transferred to the much stricter, Piedras Gordas prison. As in the past with the luxury. It is 24 hours a day being watched by two guards. For safety, he still has his own cell, but it is small. He can occasionally airing on a patio of three by four meters. Four times a week he may receive immediate family, with whom he is separated by glass.

 Not eaten and spoken
 Joran allowed four hours a day on the patio stays, along with other prisoners. He will be well protected because it is feared that other inmates do to him something. According to the Dutch news Trome killer has not spoken since he arrived Friday. He would also take no food.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2012/01_januari/15/binnenland/joran-eet-niet-praat-niet-luxe-voorbij.xml

[texasmom]

Letter to aunt Joran Joran is angry with his aunt Mary Hammer. This he writes in a letter our team in Lima with his consent should have been allowed to see and photograph. From this letter, written on January 13, 2012, also shows that Joran would appeal against the ruling of the court. He was in Lima Friday to 28 years in prison convicted of the murder of Stephany Flores.

 Joran writes:

 "Mary,

 I want you to know that my satisfaction with Mr. Jimenez and his work. We will appeal against the ruling and it will be less. Plus, remember that in Peru only 1 / 3 of your sentence having to sit. You will always have a place in my heart, but what you doing to me now I do not understand. Why do you hurt me? In all that time that I know, I never expected of you. I asked Mr. Jimenez, the money you sent me is not to your return. He wanted to send it right back when you were asked. I want to share with you a statement: "Do not wait for the Last Judgement, it happens every day." You will always have a place in my heart, but what you did is not something I can handle. I love you, but I have so much pain that you can not imagine. Give me the time, until it is over. I am being punished because I had a phone, because you emails sent me to the press. I still can not believe it, but you got me worried more problems than you can imagine, and my fellow prisoners feel the situation. I am exhausted and am now trying to sleep. I hope everything is well with you and I wish you nothing but the best.

 Lovingly, Joran "

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/top-nieuws/2012/brief-joran-aan-suikertante/

Images of the letter at link. There is one line he has crossed out I am trying to figure out what was there. How does he know that Sugar Mary sent the emails to the press? 

Ohhhhh, this is rich. To be as educated as Mary is, you'd think she would have run across this old fable:

A young girl was trudging along a mountain path, trying to reach her grandmother's house.
It was bitter cold, and the wind cut like a knife.
When she was within sight of her destination, she heard a rustle at her feet.

Looking down, she saw a snake.
Before she could move, the snake spoke to her.
He said, "I am about to die.
It is too cold for me up here, and I am freezing.
There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving.
Please put me under your coat and take me with you."

"No," replied the girl. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake.
If I pick you up, you will bite me, and your bite is poisonous."

"No, no," said the snake. "If you help me, you will be my best friend.
I will treat you differently."

The little girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over.
She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and had to admit that it was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.

Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you.
All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."

The little girl reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and proceeded toward her grandmother's house.

Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side.
The snake had bitten her.

"How could you do this to me?" she cried.
"You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"

"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake as he slithered away.

Yep, Mary. That would be Joran's tail you're viewing as he slithers away. I don't see her as a victim. She would have provided an avenue to let Joran hurt someone else if she could have. I put her in a similar category as Anita and Paulus. They have all been enablers, no matter what the motives were.

 

Hear, hear!

ABSOLUTELY, CBB!

Perfect.  I have no sympathy for her, she had no compassion for Natalee, Stephany, or their families regardless of what she says.  And as you have stated, if she'd had her way there may have been other victims...more than likely HER being one of them IMO.

If you didn't see Anderson Cooper's show with her on it, he told her how the cookie crumbles.

I just saw some short clips, but he told her off imo.  I loved it!   

[texasmom]

Just my opinion, the crosses out part of the Joran letter says: I will make sure you get it (back asap?).
The first part seems readable, I will make sure you get it
the "back asap" part is what I see. Others might see something different.
Makes since why he would cross that part off, he isnt returning money to anyone

I actually did look to see if anyone had responded before I just posted what I think it says, and I didn't see your post until AFTER I'd posted.

 

I can see the first part of the sentence better, so I think we're right about what it says.

 

Thank you all!  I was disappointed he did not close the letter with "Come Across"

 

[texasmom]

Hi everyone!! I've been here -- just reading mostly. I guess it all now boils down to how we can extract where Natalee is from Joran before he is "offed" in Peru. I'm afraid that window is rapidly closing.

 

As always, Joran's not going to give anything that doesn't result in a major benefit for him.

I think our best bet for any information will be when he faces the charges in the U. S.  He took the money, but didn't give the information.  Now the information could save him from a significant amount of additional years possibly being tacked on to the 28 he's already facing in prison. 

The only thing that worries me about that is that he has seemingly been so comfortable in prison! 

 

[Kat_Gram]

Even tho he isn't speaking, he still has his iPhone.
Wonder what kind of apps he has. He could be playing on line poker with Mary's money in there. As Simon Ewing.
I don't understand why any of his old friends are still in contact with him, would you ?
He would be blocked.
..
If you google Mary Hamer, you will see that she comments for a site based in India and cared very much for life in all of its forms, not just human. Why she glommed onto to Joran as being the messenger for world peace or whatever she had in her mind, is enough in my books for her to be Baker Acted. Yet, she is a radiologist. Granted, the education was obtained when younger and as a SWM she can do what she wants with it.     

[cecilita]

Texasmom, It is very well known that some ex politicians are in jail now, were caught in cameras leaving prison and taking taxis to go to do their business. I don't believe that joran was allow to do that for his own safety. I think the lawyer bought the apartment to have some income with the rent. I am 99% sure that the lawyer tried to buy the judges but it didn't workout...then he bought the apartment. The location of the property is a ok area, i better say I don't like it for that location nobody will pay $1500 per month. My dad has a house 900 square meters in one of the nicest area in Lima and he lease the property to a private company and they pay my dad around $2000 a month. The lawyer may BS joran for him to sign the documents and we know that at the end the monster will not be able to pay the lawyer and he will take joran's property hahahhahah. I hope that the letter of the crazy woman will help to alabama to probe that this boy is a scam also

[cecilita]

Texasmom, It is very well known that some ex politicians are in jail now, were caught in cameras leaving prison and taking taxis to go to do their business. I don't believe that joran was allow to do that for his own safety. I think the lawyer bought the apartment to have some income with the rent. I am 99% sure that the lawyer tried to buy the judges but it didn't workout...then he bought the apartment. The location of the property is a ok area, i better say I don't like it for that location nobody will pay $1500 per month. My dad has a house 900 square meters in one of the nicest area in Lima and he lease the property to a private company and they pay my dad around $2000 a month. The lawyer may BS joran for him to sign the documents and we know that at the end the monster will not be able to pay the lawyer and he will take joran's property hahahhahah. I hope that the letter of the crazy woman will help to alabama to probe that this boy is a scam also

I forgot to say that the real estate in Peru is very expensive way too expensive...an old small house and ugly can cost between 150,000 to 300,000 dollars, With that money he probably got something really ugly or a very small apartment. and the rent at that location can't exceed more than 600 dollars/month for a ok house.

[grace-land]

Texasmom and everyone, here is the clip of Mary on the Anderson Cooper's show.


Select the videio "Anderson takes Mary to Task..."   

http://www.andersoncooper.com/videos/

[Northern Rose]

Joran in the same courtyard as 'Cholo Payet'
 Dutch murderer is in the observation area and is guarded 24 hours a day for two agents.

Joran van der Sloot is now a prisoner in the prison Ancon 1 (formerly "fat Stones"). The confessed murderer of Stephany Flores was placed in the observation area of the prison or Meditation. They shared courtyard with the famous Jorge Chávez Montoya, "Polish" and José Roque Alejos, "Payet Cholo."

 According to prison sources, the Dutchman remains guarded 24 hours a day by two security officers and can only move in a courtyard of 3 × 4 square meters.

 "He came last Friday, at 8:00 pm. It has a room for him, but shares a patio, do not talk to anyone and avoid eating things that give "the source told.

 Joran will stay in this area until the prison board and transfer it to classify a pavilion and also specify the special scheme to be submitted. This will depend on the degree of danger and crime.

 It also emerged that it is more likely that the Dutch to stay in the observation area to avoid any conflicts with other inmates.

 Under the rules, Joran should be subjected to the regime, ie, have only four hours in the yard, four visits a week, only immediate family and through call centers.

 REQUISITION

 Meanwhile, yesterday morning made ​​a surprise one requisition in the maximum security prison.

 Inpe agents found in the possession of David Sánchez-Manrique Pancorvo, "Crazy David", iPhone, and colleagues at the venusterio had two phones with which they communicated with the outside. These devices were seized.

http://trome.pe/actualidad/1361232/noticia-joran-mismo-patio-quecholo-payet

Looks like the prison is on a cell phone hunt.  Wonder if that was due to Urine and Sugar Mary?

[texasmom]

Texasmom, It is very well known that some ex politicians are in jail now, were caught in cameras leaving prison and taking taxis to go to do their business. I don't believe that joran was allow to do that for his own safety. I think the lawyer bought the apartment to have some income with the rent. I am 99% sure that the lawyer tried to buy the judges but it didn't workout...then he bought the apartment. The location of the property is a ok area, i better say I don't like it for that location nobody will pay $1500 per month. My dad has a house 900 square meters in one of the nicest area in Lima and he lease the property to a private company and they pay my dad around $2000 a month. The lawyer may BS joran for him to sign the documents and we know that at the end the monster will not be able to pay the lawyer and he will take joran's property hahahhahah. I hope that the letter of the crazy woman will help to alabama to probe that this boy is a scam also

I forgot to say that the real estate in Peru is very expensive way too expensive...an old small house and ugly can cost between 150,000 to 300,000 dollars, With that money he probably got something really ugly or a very small apartment. and the rent at that location can't exceed more than 600 dollars/month for a ok house.

Thanks for the information cecilita!   

Trying to buy off the judges in this case, with the obvious affluence of the victim's family would almost seem ridiculous, or it would seem it would have taken a lot more money than that at least!  And it also seems that the Flores family is as well respected as they are affluent, so it would have surely been found out eventually...

But then if you think about that decision to not go for the higher charges that would have made the life sentence possible (the charges that the Flores family wanted Joran charged with), I don't recall now who made that call.  Was it another group of judges?  I think if the case had gone to trial with all of the evidence presented, it would have qualified for the higher charge and sentence; but that's just my opinion.  Is it possible that there was interference in this process?

 

[texasmom]

Texasmom and everyone, here is the clip of Mary on the Anderson Cooper's show.


Select the videio "Anderson takes Mary to Task..."   

http://www.andersoncooper.com/videos/

Thanks grace-land!  I had just gone back and watched it again.   

[RoxiBalboa]

Texasmom, I'm glad you posted what you read under the crossed out part of Joran's letter. Helps knowing what others see as well.

Boy, Idiot boy sure picked the wrong girls. Beth was/is a pitbull who will never stop trying to find Natalee. Stephanie's family has influence. Just look how fast he got moved to another prison after the mention of a press conference. It does how ever make me wonder if there are other victims who families were not there to fight so hard.

[wreck]

So....... what's the opinion here? Will the U.S. get Joran extradited immediately for trial -- or will he have to serve his sentence in Peru completely first?