Lively Case Discussion #647 6/25 - 6/26/2007

[2NJSons_Mom]

Klaasend or San,

Do we have a thread with maps? I was just looking and came up short.
 

The only thread I know that has some maps is SunFreak's thread.  She also has a lot of google earth shots.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=255

What kind of map are you looking for?

Thank you for the link.  Guess I skimmed right past it when I was looking earlier.  Son needed to use the computer, so I wasn't able to respond right away.  I just wanted to look at the Saveneta area after rading MDs posts.

[2NJSons_Mom]

that's reading MDs posts...

[Anna]

Just posted on the front page of SM:

Name: minnesota dad
Date: June 26, 2007, 10:27 am

I have always maintained that this crime was simple. The cover-up was the complex problem - coached suspects (J2K) giving multiple stories is a tactic known to defense attorneys in order to cloud the case up as much as possible.

This is the case in a nutshell:
J2K pick up Natalee at CnC’s. They take her to #19 Montana, the Sloot compound (I come to this conclusion based on Joran’s statements - his first statement was the HI drop off - his second statement was the THREE of them took her back to his home…this statement was made at the same time of the confession that ’something bad happened’ - when the ’something bad happened’ was reversed by Joran’s handlers, the new story was that he dropped her off at the beach). Paulus was present at the compound. THEY NEVER, EVER bring Natalee into Joran’s apartment but rather carry on poolside.

From 1:00am to 3:00am the THREE are joined by Freddy, Guido, Koen and possibly other “pimps” for a gang rape at the Sloot compound. Joran has already confessed that he was raping her while she fell in and out of consciousness. Natalee fights, as evident by scratches described by witnesses on Guido and Joran. Approximately 3 am, something bad does happen - she is non-responsive…maybe from drugs…more likely from being smacked hard after scratching Guido and Joran. She is taken into the main Van Der Sloot compound and placed on a mattress. Paulus sends everyone home. Natalee is alive, but in very serious shape - from the drugs, being raped, and heavy battery.

Approximately 3:30am, after Joran has searched the Internet for a half hour, Joran and Paulus load the gravely injured Natalee into the car and head off to the ATM machine and Lorenzo’s. Lorenzo is asked to take care of her.

Perhaps she was dead during this time, but my guess is that she was passed to Lorenzo in a seriously messed up state. I base this on 1) Satish Kalpoe asking, “how’s the girl”, 2) Joran bragging about his sexual exploits with her at school the next day (psychopath or not, I believe he would be smart enough to not brag about a girl he murdered), 3) Dennis Jacobs confidently recommending that Dave Holloway sit back, she will turn up in a few days (once recovered from the assault and rape that occurred).

The evidence of the pass on to Lorenzo is that Joran boarded the bus near Lorenzo’s property at 6:50am on the morning of Natalee’s disappearance.

In the meantime, the media and the Holloway/Twittys come to the island. Now, if Natalee was alive (which upon analyzing everything…it is very possible — but near death), they had a huge problem….releasing her at a crack house or other place would DEVASTATE tourism as FOXNews and everyone else would be reporting how she was kidnapped, drugged, and raped by the island’s elite Dutch children.

The decision was made to disappear Natalee Holloway (either living or if she died somewhere between 3:00am and 6:30am during the transfer to Lorenzo). This is where Natalee’s life had to be taken and her “disappeared” in order to not harm tourism on the island. This explains PVDS’ “No body - no crime” statement. This also explains Deepaks police car comment, “If they find the girl they will find the chit” and Joran’s response, “I will laugh if they find the girl”.

What better place to take ‘the girl’ then to an ‘untouchable’ property on the island? They needed to get her out of the VDS compound ASAP, as they knew that there would be a search in the immediate hours after it was discovered that Natalee did not make her flight.

It is very clear that Paulus and his compound were center to this case based on 1) Paulus clearly coaching the witnesses and interfering with the investigation (per Karin Janssen), 2) the blood soaked mattress and the furniture truck arriving to deliver furniture, 3) the intentional interference in the search of #19 Montana through Judge Bob Wit and Ben Vocking restricting the search to Joran’s apartment only, 4) Paulus filing with the Aruban courts to not allow the FBI to have any jurisdiction or to provide any independent searches (why have people involved that would actually solve the crime?).

What we do know, is that there are witness statements that PVDS was out with JVDS and Natalee at 4:00am. We also early on were told that there was an ATM transaction at this time. We also know that Joran picked up his bus to school near Lorenzo’s home. A dead or gravely injured Natalee was taken to Lorenzo’s. Based on the assault of Guido and Joran, she was badly hurt (remember, she fell and hit her head several times when dropped off at the Holiday Inn!).

So there you have it. Very simple and not muddied and complex as a defense attorney, Paulus, would like you to believe. Here are my opinions on the charges:

Deepak Kalpoe - Accessory to kidnap, rape, and murder
Satish Kalpoe - Accessory to Kidnap, rape, and murder
Joran Van Der Sloot - Kidnap, Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder. Providing False witness statements in a criminal investigation.
Guido Wever - Rape, heavy battery, and accessory to murder
Paulus Van Der Sloot - Accessory to kidnap and murder. In addition, Paulus provided false witness statements (the 6/16/2007 vanished witness statement) and interfered with a criminal investigation. Racketeering. Transporting and accessory in the disposal of a body.
Lorenzo - Accessory to murder and transporting/disposal of a body.

No one was ever at a beach where tennis shoes stolen from the lost and found at the racquet club were conveniently placed by Guido and Joran. No one was ever at the lighthouse…where the exact belt, that Joran was strangling a friend on his MySpace account, was found. These were plants to muddy the case.

Yes, it was all in plain view. Now, please KLPD. End this case….I am very, very tired of doing your work for you.

md

Bringing this forward for any who did not see it.  Certainly a worthwhile theory and one that  think should be forwarded to the KLPD.  It has just enough wiggle room to be somewhat flexible and does have the ring of truth and is at the least possible.  So many of our theories have not been.

I still do not know if LVR is involved or not but this is a way in which he could be without having committed the actual killing.

If LVR is only involved in the disposal aspect, he might well be willing to talk in exchange for whatever.  We know they don't have plea bargains, or so they tell us, but maybe this recent arrest was for getting more things with which to charge LVR so that he would be more likely to consider turning Crown's Witness in order to deal more charges away.

Freddie could also be talking if he is involved only after the fact.

Is Paulus sweating by any chance?  That is another indicator of how things are going.

[Anna]

very interesting.
Was he charged and convicted of anything when he beat her up and put her in a neck brace?  Or did he get away with it because he is a cop?

Its amazing that someone can do something like this and still be a cop

Blah,

She dropped the charges and he was allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge of tresspassing which she said was a misdemeanor.  Maybe that is another reason she felt so badly, wishing she had not done that.

But he was not only abusive to her but to their nine year old daughter as well and she had restraining orders but evidently in another state, not sure.

I think these women always think that the abuser will go away and leave them alone if they don't make him angry and that so seldom happens.  

[San]

Also the former gf of Bobby Cutts was on and she had gone to court three times to get restraining orders against him as once he injured her so badly she ended up in a neck brace.

She started crying because she feels guilty she was not able to stop this creep.  It was so pitiful and I felt so sorry for her.  She has been terrorized by him for 11 years following only a 4 month relationship with him.

So now not only are these thugs entitled to kill women,  other women should be made to feel it is THEIR fault because they didn't stop him from harming somebody else?  

Is there a list somewhere of things females do that then entitles males to kill them more or less at will?  I am just furious at the negative remarks directed at Jessica but NOT at Cutts!  

What Cutts' uncle said about a Christian woman shouldn't be having children with a married man, etc. --wasn't the married man involved in there somewhere?  The much older, lying married man?  How did he get to be blameless in that?

I think men who obtain sex under false pretenses, lying, etc. should be held to the same fraud charges as for any other situation and there should be penalties for doing such things.  Only more severe than just material things.

Make it a crime, a form of rape by deceit and throw their sorry, lying asses in jail!

Of course, all too often, it is the duly wedded hubby doing the killing so that wouldn't protect those women.  Sorry, guys, but WTH!  This has to be becoming more common even though the stats don't reflect it.

 

very interesting.
Was he charged and convicted of anything when he beat her up and put her in a neck brace?  Or did he get away with it because he is a cop?

Its amazing that someone can do something like this and still be a cop

Well, here is some more info. of the jerk.   Mentioned on Fox this morning. He called even ANOTHER women that night in the bar, trying to get her to meet him there. She is married, with kids. He again called her around 2:00 a.m. the night of the murder, trying to get her to meet him. She refused both times.  

How many women does one need?  A$$hole..

Why didn't he call his loser uncle who made that remark about Jessie.  No his is calling all these women to help him.  I think he is trying to pin this murder on one of these women.  He will say they got into a fight with Jessie and killed her.

[San]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

[greeneyedlady]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

[San]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

Yes I heard that GEL.

I also believe he was on steriods.  A lot of these wrestlers are and he probably had some sort of rage in him.

[greeneyedlady]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

Yes I heard that GEL.

I also believe he was on steriods.  A lot of these wrestlers are and he probably had some sort of rage in him.

It's really sad these guys don't seek help,surely they feel/know it's coming.

[2NJSons_Mom]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

Yes I heard that GEL.

I also believe he was on steriods.  A lot of these wrestlers are and he probably had some sort of rage in him.

My older son and I spoke about this earlier today.  My son said he was a good wrestler and said a lot of them end up having emotional disturbance and/or depression.  I mentioned steroids and son agreed it's usually tha cause of this type of rage.  Very sick and very sad.

[San]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

Yes I heard that GEL.

I also believe he was on steriods.  A lot of these wrestlers are and he probably had some sort of rage in him.

It's really sad these guys don't seek help,surely they feel/know it's coming.

GEL most of these guys are on steriods and do a lot of coke.

I blame Vince McMahon for this.  I think he pushes these athletes to the point where they have to look good for the camera.  Steriods allow you to do that quickly especially when you are getting up there in age.

[San]

O/T - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TELLS THE AP THAT PRO WRESTLER CHRIS BENOIT STRANGLED WIFE, SMOTHERED SON BEFORE HANGING HIMSELF

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

I

also heard that Chris may have killed his wife and his child the day before killing himself-have you heard this?Another sicko!

Yes I heard that GEL.

I also believe he was on steriods.  A lot of these wrestlers are and he probably had some sort of rage in him.

My older son and I spoke about this earlier today.  My son said he was a good wrestler and said a lot of them end up having emotional disturbance and/or depression.  I mentioned steroids and son agreed it's usually tha cause of this type of rage.  Very sick and very sad.

Yes it is very sad.

[Port Valerie]

If Minnesota Dad is correct, then the stop at the ATM was to get cash to fuel Lorenzo's boat. They would not have to pay Lorenzo to get involved, at least not that night, and $400 wouldn't be enough to pay off somebody princely like that. It would take a couple of hundred dollars to gas up a boat for a trip pretty far out. If the ATM stop was for gas money, then they knew they needed the boat; Natalee was already dead.

I like that picture of the cigarette boat. It looks like the kind of boat you could pull up on a beach and load, without using a slip in a marina where there are always people around. It could go way out very fast. Noisy as heck, though.

[Port Valerie]

MD's theory could also include the "I-don't-know-these-people" phone call from Natalee to a friend's answering machine. (Largely discounted, though, I think.)

I don't know why so many Aruban princes would come over to the VDS house for a gang rape on a Sunday night, though. Is that fun for some people? Can't they get what they want on their own?

[San]

MD's theory could also include the "I-don't-know-these-people" phone call from Natalee to a friend's answering machine. (Largely discounted, though, I think.)

I don't know why so many Aruban princes would come over to the VDS house for a gang rape on a Sunday night, though. Is that fun for some people? Can't they get what they want on their own?

Port Valerie, I think they can get what they want but drugging and raping a tourist is more fun for them.  They know she is not interested in them.  They want to degrade her.  It gives them the satisfaction they want.  They control the situation.

[friend of monkeys]

MD's theory could also include the "I-don't-know-these-people" phone call from Natalee to a friend's answering machine. (Largely discounted, though, I think.)

I don't know why so many Aruban princes would come over to the VDS house for a gang rape on a Sunday night, though. Is that fun for some people? Can't they get what they want on their own?

Really sick people who have no morals...yes...it is "fun" for them....sick


Glad i got that post from MD  KLASSS..ty.....my thought was always she went to Lorenzoes....md summed it up nicely.....


O/T

Klass.......i am still sick...maybe a serious antibiotic resistant staph infection from doing some work at a nursing home.......just googled it.......
Fun.     Going to the doctors again....now.......my mom is bitching cuz i keep trying to go back to work then get sicker....she said "well
DEAD is forever, ya know shithead?"  k...she didn't call me a shithead....


Love u monkeys.....send a prayer for wellness for me k ?


Going now....

[friend of monkeys]

If Minnesota Dad is correct, then the stop at the ATM was to get cash to fuel Lorenzo's boat. They would not have to pay Lorenzo to get involved, at least not that night, and $400 wouldn't be enough to pay off somebody princely like that. It would take a couple of hundred dollars to gas up a boat for a trip pretty far out. If the ATM stop was for gas money, then they knew they needed the boat; Natalee was already dead.

I like that picture of the cigarette boat. It looks like the kind of boat you could pull up on a beach and load, without using a slip in a marina where there are always people around. It could go way out very fast. Noisy as heck, though.

gotta go---but there was that coast guard chasing a boat to venezuela and guy shot dead front page diario...around june 10..????  11???

maybe ditching any  evidence left behind in the ocean????
the speed boat guy wouldn't stop....so they shot him...
not Lorezoe , maybe his "dog"...


later monks

[klaasend]

FOM - I'll be praying for you to get well soon. Don't try to go back to work silly, get well!

[2NJSons_Mom]

FOM,

Hope & pray you will be well soon.  Listen to your momma and your monkey moms, too.  Rest, drink plenty of non-alcoholic fluids and be good to yourself.  No puffing on any funny stuff is advisable, as well.  

[msmarple]

Here's something from TMZ about the Chris Benoit case.

Before her grisly death, Chris Benoit's wife once told a judge that she was, "intimidated by threats of violence" from her 220 lb. husband.

In divorce papers filed in 2003, Nancy Benoit included a petition for protection from domestic abuse against Chris. In the papers, Nancy claimed that Benoit, "lost his temper and threatened to strike the petitioner and cause extensive damage to the home and personal belongings of the parties, including furniture." Nancy added that she was, "in reasonable fear for petitioner's own safety and that of the minor child."

Goes on to say that she later requested that the divorce paper and restraining order be dismissed. Sheesh.

* * *
FOM - Take care of yourself. Mind your mama.