Lively Case Discussion #647 6/25 - 6/26/2007

[LilPuma]

Port Valerie, I missed you by half an hour and I'm sure you're in bed, but before hitting the sack myself, I thought I'd offer my two cents.  

I've never been one to think that Paulus was involved until after the fact.  But the involvement of Paulus or Lorenzo or someone more important than a 17 year old high school kid and his two drivers explains the coverup.  My theory hasn't changed much in the last two years, even after reading here for almost a year and learning a lot about people and events and posts from early on that went beyond the info I was getting.  Since I still think they went to the VDS house, Paulus being involved and possibly Lorenzo after the fact makes more sense.  I always thought that if Lorenzo was involved, it's because he gave Joran the drugs, or supplied them to C&C's.  (His high security compound made me think he was involved in drugs, now he's been arrested for it.)  If Lorenzo is really into drug dealing at a much higher level than a street dealer, then he would have the means to make someone disappear.  On the other hand, I think the first 48 hours after Natalee didn't regain consciousness were clumsy and their actions and statements reflect this.  Their butts weren't covered yet.  So there goes the theory that an organized crime figure was involved early on.  So I've come full circle and am back to thinking these 3 young guys screwed up and Paulus and his friends covered up.  I do think Joran ran to daddy early and Paulus knew the score before Beth and Jug showed up.  

I think it's a good sign that these drug busts have taken place on Aruba.  Don't know if they have anything to do with the Dutch digging around, but it's possible.

[LilPuma]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but now that we have confirmation of one of Lorenzo's business ventures, I have to wonder if he inherited the business from his father who is just one of Aruba's many questionable "suicides".

[IBE]

O/T one my better neighbors checked out a 3 CD set of Don Delillo  book: "The Body Artist" from our local library. The other better neighbor next door, other side, wanted to listen to it and lost it.  

The local library wants $60 for the 3 CD set. Neighbor2 is willing to replace it for neighbor 1 but neighbor 2.5 me (I live between them) can't find it for sale on the Internet.

Maybe one of our Monkey Friends has the 3 cd set at home and would like to make some money? Of course neighbor 1 would like to pay less than the library is charging her if she doesn't replace it... but something fair too to the seller.   Any takers  let me know at email addy:   today2004@earthlink.net   and then the both of you can work out something that's fair for the both of you.

Will Take this over to the Lounge too, but if you are like me, I am always behind in the Lounge.

[Port Valerie]

Good night, Lil Puma. I missed you by about five minutes.

There's always the chance that she was buried on Lorenzo's property -- more untouchable than any public place -- and that the Dutch are using the drug bust to gain access to his place.

I long felt that Paulus was not involved, because of the way he invited Beth and Greta in to talk for an hour. But there's no way that mental lightweight Joran could make Natalee disappear on his own. Thus I finally agree that Paulus had a part in it, and only because it was unavoidable -- the crime occurred on his property.

[IBE]

Klaas... when you wake up this morning I posted here about looking a 3cd set of a book.     In the post here I put in the Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil emoticons then did a cut and past from here to the Lounge thread..

In the other thread the words "Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil " appeared and not the emoticons. Sure was an eye opener to me, tonight.

Will you please clean it up for me.. please with apple butter???.. with or without the emoticons but not with the "rolling eyes twisted evil" . I could just see this be in the otherside's dossier about. ug. TIA

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[Buckeye]

I am sure there are more statements than the Dr. Phil list.

Koen was questioned June 16th (6/17 and 6/20)....then the issues with Max Arends/Arendz (sp?) and Lorenzo...hmmmm

[San]

I am sure there are more statements than the Dr. Phil list.

Koen was questioned June 16th (6/17 and 6/20)....then the issues with Max Arends/Arendz (sp?) and Lorenzo...hmmmm

Just because Lorenzo was questioned as a witness on June 16th doesn't mean that he wasn't a suspect.  Let's face it, Aruba was changing the rules as they went along.  They are a bunch of liars.  If they would have questioned him as a suspect that would mean he would be in jail.  They were going to make sure that didn't happen.  So what better way to make it happen then bring him in as a witness because in fact he was a witness to what Joran and Paulus had done.  JMO.

[Easywriter]

Has anyone looked at the list of statements and compared it with the PV's that have been made public?

[yapperz1]

Morning Monkeys

We have to remember the list of pv's/statements are what we had here plus the ones the K2 would have had. In Aruba if a statement/pv doesn't apply to the suspects they do not get a copy of that statement/pv.

[yapperz1]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/10/ng.01.html

<snip>
GRACE: Very quickly back to Vivian Van Der Biezen. Why is it that the defense attorneys for the other four have not been allowed to see this Dutch boy`s statement, the son of the Aruban judicial official?

VAN DER BIEZEN: This is because when a defense attorney has a client, then the defense attorney will have only the statements that relate to his clients. If the defense attorney doesn`t have information about one of the suspects, this means that this suspect did not have any accusations against his client.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   06/27/2007

Fires San Juan celebration better manageable  

In some of the places, huge stacks of flammable material were set to fire.  Compared to last year, the nuisance was much less, was the first reaction of the fire department.

ORANJESTAD – The inconvenience of burnings and little fires started on the occasion of the celebration of San Juan was less than last year.  Gabriël Kelly, spokesperson of the fire department came to that careful conclusion.  

The central station of the fire department received about 80 reporting; in 2006, these were more that 100.  Most of the reporting was for roadside fires and several garbage dump facilities, says Kelly.  The majority of the fires were set in Sta. Cruz and in the area of Paradera.  There were also more fires west of Balashi than in the eastern part of the island.  The helicopter of Warda nos Costa was put in to trace the fires and call these in fast.  That has helped a lot.

The reason for fewer fires than last year may have been the rain that fell earlier and made the flammable material less easy to catch fire.    

* * *  

Dossier minister Croes sent back  

ORANJESTAD – The Antillean Procurator General (PG) will not give advice on the Aruban corruption investigation by Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP).

Deputy PG Nico Jörg of Aruba has asked for advice early June, because he is of the opinion that the Aruban criminal law does not offer sufficient guarantee to protect the Public Prosecutor (OM) in this kind of political sensitive dossier.  

He says that the PG and the OM cannot do their work, because to his opinion, they are being accused of political influence when prosecuting ministers and former ministers.  He thought that he had a solution within the cooperation regulation between Aruba and the Antilles .  The PG of the Antilles, who is according to Jörg totally immune for any influences from Aruba and the government of the Antilles cannot influence him in his advice to the PG of Aruba , could be the proper official to give the advice.    

However, the Antillean Justice-minister David Dick has indicated that Aruba and the Antilles are autonomous countries, each responsible for their own decisions.  With cases of corruption in own country, the PG and OM must assume their own responsibility, without the advice of third parties.    

At this moment, the OM cannot confirm yet whether the dossier has indeed been sent back, but they do not deny this either.  The spokesperson of the ministry of Justice in Aruba has meanwhile confirmed that the dossier is sent back without advice of the Antillean PG.

[msmarple]

If you haven't done so - go here to wish them well at the New Orleans Travel show .... The show starts TODAY, through July 2.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1003&start=100

[Tamikosmom]

I am sure there are more statements than the Dr. Phil list.

Koen was questioned June 16th (6/17 and 6/20)....then the issues with Max Arends/Arendz (sp?) and Lorenzo...hmmmm

Buckeye ... I agree.

The Kalpoe lawyers would only have statements in their possession that pertain to their clients.  I assume that these are the only statements that Phil McGraw attorneys would have assess to.

Janet

Vivian Van Der Biezen
NANCY GRACE
June 10, 2005

GRACE: Very quickly back to Vivian Van Der Biezen. Why is it that the defense attorneys for the other four have not been allowed to see this Dutch boy`s statement, the son of the Aruban judicial official?

VAN DER BIEZEN: This is because when a defense attorney has a client, then the defense attorney will have only the statements that relate to his clients. If the defense attorney doesn`t have information about one of the suspects, this means that this suspect did not have any accusations against his client.

[Tamikosmom]

I apologize Yapper

I was just catching up and ... did not noticed that you had already responded to Buckeye.

Janet.

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning.  Working and Lurking

[yapperz1]

NP Janet. In case someone skips over mine they will see yours. LOL

[robots]

ROY ROGERS is on a  roll on the front page

GO ROY GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[Easywriter]

Morning Monkeys

We have to remember the list of pv's/statements are what we had here plus the ones the K2 would have had. In Aruba if a statement/pv doesn't apply to the suspects they do not get a copy of that statement/pv.

In the statements we have seen most of them are linked to something said by JK2.  I was wondering who first brought Lorenzo's name into all of this.  Do we know?

[Tiger]

Don't worry about being sued,by joe,unless you call him a shys;er.Don't worry about the other women like glenda unless you comment on their sexual preferences.truth is a viable defence from joran.I am glad to be back.I will be happier after Isee a big perp walk.I watched haunting evidence last night.The references to a man in power and influence wasn't pvds.Any opinions,monkeys,from those who saw it?Lala,I agree quite a bit with Simian.