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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion #865 5/02/12 - 7/23/12  (Read 352978 times)
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Northern Rose
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« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2012, 10:06:26 PM »

Joran van der Sloot's Extradition to US Not a Done Deal

Despite claims otherwise, Joran van der Sloot's extradition to the U.S. is not yet set in stone. Though a Peruvian judge approved his "provisional detention" last month, the convicted murderer has indicated that he intends to fight his extradition.

In court on Tuesday, van der Sloot told a judge that he would rather serve out the remainder of his 28-year murder sentence in Peru than be sent to the U.S. Rumor has it his jailed lifestyle is significantly more cushy than it would be in a federal prison.

 ::snipping2::

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/11/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS43572957320120511
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« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2012, 10:15:50 PM »

Come on Joran, about time you were shown some good old fashioned southern hospitality!   ::boxingjoran:: ::boxingjoran:: ::boxingjoran::

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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #102 on: May 15, 2012, 01:12:11 AM »

Although i've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
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« Reply #103 on: May 15, 2012, 01:16:35 AM »

Although i've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2012, 01:21:03 AM »

Although i've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 

Interesting takes Wreck, but you could be right. I would love to see him get charged with murder, but think it is a long shot, unless there was something found on that laptop that we are unaware of. Either way, as long as we can stay nice and friendly with Peru, politically that is, Urine is going to be in prison for the rest of his life.  ::boxingjoran::
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wreck
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« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2012, 01:31:28 AM »

Although I've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 

Interesting takes Wreck, but you could be right. I would love to see him get charged with murder, but think it is a long shot, unless there was something found on that laptop that we are unaware of. Either way, as long as we can stay nice and friendly with Peru, politically that is, Urine is going to be in prison for the rest of his life.  ::boxingjoran::

Food for thought................................................. all of a sudden (about Jan or Feb '12) Dr. Phil's team stopped fighting the Kalpoes for trial delays and started agreeing to postponing the trial another year. That really never made much sense to me ----- maybe there were ulterior motives!
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #106 on: May 15, 2012, 01:47:04 AM »

Although I've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 

Interesting takes Wreck, but you could be right. I would love to see him get charged with murder, but think it is a long shot, unless there was something found on that laptop that we are unaware of. Either way, as long as we can stay nice and friendly with Peru, politically that is, Urine is going to be in prison for the rest of his life.  ::boxingjoran::

Food for thought................................................. all of a sudden (about Jan or Feb '12) Dr. Phil's team stopped fighting the Kalpoes for trial delays and started agreeing to postponing the trial another year. That really never made much sense to me ----- maybe there were ulterior motives!

I hope so. I never really thought of that. Once on American soil and in a Alabama prison, Urine may be willing to talk. Being in Alabama with American prison inmates is going to be an entirely different form of pressure that I don't think Urine has come close to feeling, yet.
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« Reply #107 on: May 15, 2012, 08:48:53 AM »

Although I've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 

Interesting takes Wreck, but you could be right. I would love to see him get charged with murder, but think it is a long shot, unless there was something found on that laptop that we are unaware of. Either way, as long as we can stay nice and friendly with Peru, politically that is, Urine is going to be in prison for the rest of his life.  ::boxingjoran::

Food for thought................................................. all of a sudden (about Jan or Feb '12) Dr. Phil's team stopped fighting the Kalpoes for trial delays and started agreeing to postponing the trial another year. That really never made much sense to me ----- maybe there were ulterior motives!

Hmn.  That is food for thought.  Good observation! ::justice2NJ:: ::boxingjoran:: ::boxingjoran::
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jamcakes
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« Reply #108 on: May 15, 2012, 10:00:41 AM »

Although I've been very impatient with how long it has taken for justice to be doled out to the pride of Assruba, I've learned in the past couple of years that there probably has been a lot going on through back channels. We saw that with the extortion attempt by Urine. John Q. Kelly and Beth were waiting for Urine to become complacent and slip up. Guess what? Urine is Coming to America.....Sorry Eddie and Arsenio  This extradition stuff also can be very slow, as countries have to work to respect another countries legal process.
Yep -- he's coming here alright!! I agree with the "back channel" thing. 2 things may be in the works ...(1) he may be conveniently here to testify in the Dr Phil case .. (2) he my just get hit with a murder charge for Natalee -- maybe wishful thinking, but I would not be at all surprised! 

Interesting takes Wreck, but you could be right. I would love to see him get charged with murder, but think it is a long shot, unless there was something found on that laptop that we are unaware of. Either way, as long as we can stay nice and friendly with Peru, politically that is, Urine is going to be in prison for the rest of his life.  ::boxingjoran::

Food for thought................................................. all of a sudden (about Jan or Feb '12) Dr. Phil's team stopped fighting the Kalpoes for trial delays and started agreeing to postponing the trial another year. That really never made much sense to me ----- maybe there were ulterior motives!

Hmn.  That is food for thought.  Good observation! ::justice2NJ:: ::boxingjoran:: ::boxingjoran::


Maybe, the best is yet to come!

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jammsnana
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One Day There WILL be JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE!!!


« Reply #109 on: May 15, 2012, 11:40:19 AM »

Jammsnana - got you down by the benches.    




THANK YOU!!!!! Jamms
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« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2012, 12:32:59 PM »

My understanding.

Considering a crime happened against an American citizen while she was on American soil ... jurisdiction will not be a cause for an American judge to dismiss the charges brought against Joran van der Sloot for the extortion of Beth Holloway.

However ... jurisdictional issues may stand in the way of Joran van der Sloot being tried in an American court for his participation in the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruban soil.

IMO

Janet

+++++


THE NEW YORK LAWSUIT - DISMISSED!
 
Jurisdiction - A Procedural Ruling


NANCY GRACE
Judge Dismisses Holloway Suit
Aired August 11, 2006 - 20:00:00   ET


<snipped>

JIM MORET: Natalee`s family filed a civil lawsuit in New York against Joran Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in this case, and his father, Paul, claiming that Joran imprisoned and sexually assaulted their daughter, and also that Paul enabled his son`s delinquent behavior.

Basically, what happened is the judge said New York was the wrong place to file this lawsuit. The exact words were, "It`s an inconvenient place to file the lawsuit." Joran, you may recall, said that there was no nexus, there was no connection between New York, Natalee`s disappearance and any of the activities in Aruba. And basically, the judge agreed, saying the case is therefore dismissed.

<snipped>

MORET: Joran Van Der Sloot is saying that New York -- through his attorney, saying New York was the wrong place to bring this case. All of the activities that were alleged happened in Aruba. Joran is not a U.S. citizen. Natalee did not live in New York. Therefore, it was the wrong place to bring this case.

Natalee`s family brought the case in New York because they said that a number of witnesses lived in and around New York, it was a convenient location to bring this lawsuit. And also, they claim to have another woman who was allegedly assaulted by Joran Van Der Sloot, and she was only going to testify in New York. But basically, the judge didn`t agree with any of those claims.

<snipped>

GRACE: Beth, thank you for being with us. It seems that no matter how hard you struggle for justice in your daughter`s disappearance, you get swatted down every which way you turn, now including an American court. Beth, what did you want to gain in this lawsuit?

TWITTY: Well, Nancy, first, I`d like to say that, you know, it`s not just Natalee and it`s not just Natalee`s last shot at justice. What we have, Nancy, we have millions and millions and millions of Americans who travel internationally every year. And what we are learning from Natalee is that, you know, the challenges that you will face should you find a loved one a victim of a crime in a foreign country. Your United States constitutional rights do not apply in other countries, and it`s been a hard life lesson for us to learn. There is no recourse. We faced jurisdictional issues, extradition every -- every step of the way. And it`s just hard to know the right turns to make. I mean, we`re doing the best that we can to see what can be done for an American citizen who`s a victim of a crime in a foreign country.

<snipped>

TWITTY: We know these are the original three suspects into her disappearance, and we are on the right track to pursue that, you know, but it`s just hard to find the venue. It`s just hard to know -- as I said, you know, there`s just not a handbook on this.

GRACE: Why are you so convinced, Beth, that these guys know what happened to your girl?

TWITTY: Well, the facts still remain that those are the last suspects known to be seen with Natalee alive. And everybody knows of their repeated lies that they told the authorities, even their father, Paulus Van Der Sloot. That`s why he was arrested. There was a reason that he was arrested in Natalee`s disappearance. It was not unwarranted whatsoever.

And you know -- and being dismissed in New York, it was on a procedure ruling. Here again, jurisdiction. We have faced that issue since May 30 of 2005. Jurisdiction and extradition have hit us in the face every time.

<snipped>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/11/ng.01.html

s.t.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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jamcakes
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« Reply #111 on: May 15, 2012, 02:28:05 PM »

My understanding.

Considering a crime happened against an American citizen while she was on American soil ... jurisdiction will not be a cause for an American judge to dismiss the charges brought against Joran van der Sloot for the extortion of Beth Holloway.

However ... jurisdictional issues may stand in the way of Joran van der Sloot being tried in an American court for his participation in the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruban soil.

IMO

Janet


1. Joran will hopefully be extradited to the USA to answer charges of extortion and wire fraud, for which he has already indicted.

2. As for charging him for any crimes against Natalee, so far that is only wishful thinking on our part.  However, the Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction may enter into any future charges against Joran.  It looks to the nationality of the victim to determine jurisdiction, holding that a state may assert jurisdiction over persons and events outside a state's territory on the basis that its citizen has been harmed.

Edit - term correction per jamcakes.  MB
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:04:39 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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klaasend
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« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2012, 07:59:39 PM »

DON'T MISS THE DANA PRETZER SHOW, TONIGHT AT 9PM ET:

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wreck
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« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2012, 08:14:58 PM »

My understanding.

Considering a crime happened against an American citizen while she was on American soil ... jurisdiction will not be a cause for an American judge to dismiss the charges brought against Joran van der Sloot for the extortion of Beth Holloway.

However ... jurisdictional issues may stand in the way of Joran van der Sloot being tried in an American court for his participation in the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruban soil.

IMO

Janet


1. Joran will hopefully be extradited to the USA to answer charges of extortion and wire fraud, for which he has already indicted.

2. As for charging him for any crimes against Natalee, so far that is only wishful thinking on our part.  However, the Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction may enter into any future charges against Joran.  It looks to the nationality of the victim to determine jurisdiction, holding that a state may assert jurisdiction over persons and events outside a state's territory on the basis that its citizen has been harmed.
Edit - Term correction per jamcakes.  MB

Yes......... I think it has been documented here that the US Government can prosecute any crimes committed against a US citizen on foreign soil (particularly if justice had not been administered in the country where the crime was committed). While the US cannot enter a foreign country to nab said suspect -- if they get him somehow to enter the United States -- all is fair!! ............................ well now they are going to get Joran here -- legally!!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:06:16 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2012, 08:37:24 PM »

Beginning at 11:59pm ET tonight, we may be down for 15 minutes or so for a network firmware upgrade.  There is like a 2 hour window when they will be working on the servers and we could be down for a few minutes any time between 11:59pm ET tonight and 2:00am ET. 

Just wanted you to know if we happen to be down, that's why
 
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« Reply #115 on: May 16, 2012, 12:45:16 AM »


1. Joran will hopefully be extr adited to the USA to answer charges of extortion and wire fraud, for which he has already indicted.

2. As for charging him for any crimes against Natalee, so far that is only wishful thinking on our part.  However, the Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction may enter into any future charges against Joran.  It looks to the nationality of the victim to determine jurisdiction, holding that a state may assert jurisdiction over persons and events outside a state's territory on the basis that its citizen has been harmed.
Edit - to correct term.  MB

Excuse me, please.  I'm having brain stutters today.

It should be Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction
Edit - sp.  MB

 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:08:12 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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jamcakes
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« Reply #116 on: May 16, 2012, 12:47:51 AM »


1. Joran will hopefully be extradited to the USA to answer charges of extortion and wire fraud, for which he has already indicted.

2. As for charging him for any crimes against Natalee, so far that is only wishful thinking on our part.  However, the Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction may enter into any future charges against Joran.  It looks to the nationality of the victim to determine jurisdiction, holding that a state may assert jurisdiction over persons and events outside a state's territory on the basis that its citizen has been harmed.
Edit - fix term per jamcakes.  MB

Excuse me, please.  I'm having brain stutters today.

It should be Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction
Edit sp. MB

 


LOL.  

Passive Personality Principle of Jurisdiction.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:10:03 AM by MuffyBee » Logged

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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2012, 02:32:41 AM »

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY & STEPHANY FLORES

GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

KEEPTHEFAITH



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MuffyBee
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« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2012, 08:15:11 AM »

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY & STEPHANY FLORES

GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

KEEPTHEFAITH



 an angelic monkey

  
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« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2012, 09:26:07 PM »

Photo at link.  Peter R. de Vries receives the 2012 Forget-Me-Not Award.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/nieuws/peter-ontvangt-unieke-vergeet-me-niet-award/

Google translation

Friday, May 18, 2012, 15:51 hours
News
Peter receives unique Forget-Me-Not Award
Corrie van Buuren praises Peter for his years of dedication

Friday was Peter from the hands of Corrie van Buuren and Missing presenter Jaap Jongbloed the Forget-Me-Not Award 2012 awarded. Peter received this award for his energetic, tenacious attitude in numerous murder and missing cases.
 
"Thanks to you, by your determination, we have the place where Marion and Romy found buried," said Corrie van Buuren in an emotional speech. "After all these years a very special working relationship. Even after the discovery of Marion and Romy have you done much for us. We are very grateful for you. "
 
Unforgettable moments
Peter called it a "great surprise" that he just got the prize awarded. "I'm very proud of this award," he responded. "It has extra meaning for me that just handed Corrie van Buuren this. We have many memorable and touching moments with each experienced in the time I was working with the disappearance of her daughter Marion and her granddaughter Romy. We still have regular contact and it makes me so much that she spoke to me so beautiful. Then you just have a lump in your throat. This price will absolutely a beautiful place in my home. "

"I find it great fun to 'Missing' awarded me this prize," continued Peter. "Twenty years ago my television career began with Jaap Jongbloed, when we were together the first crime magazine" Crime Time ". I'm there with a lot of fun back then and it is natural that its special program gives me this award. "
 ::snipping2::
Eleventh award
Each year they award Corrie van Buuren, as an ambassador of the Missing Foundation, the award from. The Award, which in 2002 was first issued, serves as encouragement for those who make themselves useful in detecting and preventing disappearances. Since 2002, the Forget-Me-Not Award eleven times awarded. Images of the ceremony on 25 May in the broadcast of Missing screened, around 21:30 in the Netherlands 1.
 
Marijke Kuin
Editorial Peter R. de Vries
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