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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion #865 5/02/12 - 7/23/12  (Read 356220 times)
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jamcakes
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« Reply #460 on: June 12, 2012, 05:03:45 PM »

Hi TexasMom! 

 ::boxingjoran::





Hi MuffyBee! 

 

Hey, could someone please turn the heat down a little out there!   

 

 ::boxingjoran::

Is winter coming soon in Peru?   

Monkey Devil!

 ::boxingjoran::


Hee hee.....I hope they have a record cold winter!

In the Peruvian prison, does the toilet water flush the other way in the bowl?  Oh wait, do they even have flush toilets in the Peruvian prison?

I hope when the Appeals court has made their decision about Joran's sentence, the prison system will go ahead and "CHALLAPALCA him."

 Monkey Devil!   
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     Challapalca him!
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #461 on: June 12, 2012, 05:08:14 PM »

http://www.amigoe.com/aruba/115212-toerisme-uit-vs-en-europa-daalt-opnieuw

Google translation

Tourism from USA and Europe drops again         

TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 2012 9:48

ORANGE CITY - Aruba's main tourism market North America does it again less well. In May the number of tourists dropped by 1.9 percent. In the U.S. alone were 1.1 percent fewer tourists compared to last year. And Europe remains less well. According to figures from the tourism agency ATA. It says in collaboration with partners working hard to "weaknesses in the various markets' to tackle. This is extra money aside.

ATA is not entirely clear about the reasons for the decline of the U.S. market. "Several factors play a role in this fall and the air service is one of them." In previous posts about the disappointing tourism figures for this market gave ATA also reasons as a 'mild winter' in the U.S. and the economic downturn in that country. In any case, says the tourist office even though some time to work hard on the air link. Since the cancellation of flights by American Airlines Aruba is eagerly looking for alternatives. Recently, the tourism office could be the good news that Delta mid december daily from JFK (airport in New York) before flying.

The quarterly figures who last month became available, it appeared that the North American market is under pressure (-2 percent) compared to last year. With the latest figures for May that is not improved. Especially in the Western U.S. region (-11.4 percent) were less tourists. Also from Canada decreased tourism by 15.9 percent.

Declining numbers are also seen in the number of tourists from Europe. In May is about 7.5 percent fewer tourists than last year. And that is in line with the figures from the first quarter of this year, where there was an overall decrease of 3.3 percent. In May, fewer tourists came mainly from the Netherlands (0.6 percent) and Italy. From the southern European country flies because no more charter to Aruba. Also, fewer British tourists (-17.8 percent) and ATA again blames the recession in that country. Being positive is the increasing numbers of German tourists (45.3 percent) and Belgium (21.5 percent). Exact numbers not provided the tourist office.

 ::snipping2::
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
wreck
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« Reply #462 on: June 12, 2012, 07:35:09 PM »

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

It went beyond confusing and became infuriating a long time ago for me jamcakes.

In order to continue, I scroll on by as has been instructed many times.

The claims of "devil's advocate" and coating the obvious with undying support for Beth to counter it don't change what it is imo.

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

 

The same type thing happens in other threads as well; whole family conspiracies to murder and cover up, self righteous contempt for victim's families, excessive repeating and bumping of their own posts, constant off topic "life outside the computer room" info, etc. has convinced me that what it boils down to is highlighted in blue above.  I shudder to think how many times that has probably crossed the minds of others reading here at SM.  I really think the goal is to drive away long time members of this forum and discourage those who might think of joining here.  There is a purpose behind the seeming madness, and I truly believe the profile of one elderly lady with her cuppa tea is not doing it alone.  There's not enough time in the day for one person to come up with all this (crapola a lot of the time imo) and package it all up so neatly to post over, and over, and over again.

 

JMHO


Survival tip:

Sometimes it helps to think about the Rawhide theme as you scroll.   

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE! 

I miss Hotping, that always reminds me of her.   

Amen! It's not just a few of us who think so.
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klaasend
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« Reply #463 on: June 12, 2012, 07:59:58 PM »

DON'T MISS THE DANA PRETZER SHOW AT 9PM ET TONIGHT!

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Magnolia
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« Reply #464 on: June 12, 2012, 09:46:07 PM »

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

It went beyond confusing and became infuriating a long time ago for me jamcakes.

In order to continue, I scroll on by as has been instructed many times.

The claims of "devil's advocate" and coating the obvious with undying support for Beth to counter it don't change what it is imo.

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

 

The same type thing happens in other threads as well; whole family conspiracies to murder and cover up, self righteous contempt for victim's families, excessive repeating and bumping of their own posts, constant off topic "life outside the computer room" info, etc. has convinced me that what it boils down to is highlighted in blue above.  I shudder to think how many times that has probably crossed the minds of others reading here at SM.  I really think the goal is to drive away long time members of this forum and discourage those who might think of joining here.  There is a purpose behind the seeming madness, and I truly believe the profile of one elderly lady with her cuppa tea is not doing it alone.  There's not enough time in the day for one person to come up with all this (crapola a lot of the time imo) and package it all up so neatly to post over, and over, and over again.

 

JMHO


Survival tip:

Sometimes it helps to think about the Rawhide theme as you scroll.   

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE! 

I miss Hotping, that always reminds me of her.   

Amen! It's not just a few of us who think so.

I AMEN that too.   Thanks TM for saying it so well.  an angelic monkey
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Tibrogargan
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« Reply #465 on: June 12, 2012, 10:44:55 PM »

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE!    (CBB has a pithy version of this which I sing to myself often in this thread)

Yes we had that TV series out here and programmes like that as well as movies that convinced us that all Americans rode horses and said Y'all, just as Australian movies have convinced the rest of the world that we all say G'day Mate, and have kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our cities.

But Natalee's case has melded people in both our countries in a way that had not happened before.   There have been many attempts to upset our collective apple cart and try to divide and conquer but the machinations of one such in our midst is particularly hard to comprehend.  As Texasmom has outlined it is very reminiscent to me of CapsLockWizard's attempts by several people under one heading.  That deception was uncovered  by our monkey sleuths and I am sure any current and future attempts to use this method to derail threads will meet the same fate.

The continual flogging of a dead horse was also one of the reasons so many monkeys took up the invitation to join a forum elsewhere.  Some of those monkeys no longer frequent the other place, which is all but defunct on the surface,  but continue to read here at SM as guests.  They choose not to post here because of the above constant regurgitating of posts and wild theories. Such a pity that we cannot get back to the sharing of ideas and camaraderie that was once a highlight of this thread.

I am so thankful that Klaas opened my Australian thread and I can potter about and post new items when I consider them relevant or interesting.  After reading at another forum (not the one mentioned above) and seeing how new members from Australia were treated when they dared to post in their own way of speaking and using everyday words and phrases peculiar to us it made me remember how welcome I was made here and how my Aussie lingo was tolerated.  Instead of my posts being poofed or edited, I was asked what I meant many times and because of that we all learned a lot about our different countries.  Fun days.  Thank you mods and monkeys.

And no, this is not a farewell post, although it does tend to read like one on the preview.

 


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MuffyBee
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« Reply #466 on: June 12, 2012, 10:51:33 PM »

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE!    (CBB has a pithy version of this which I sing to myself often in this thread)

Yes we had that TV series out here and programmes like that as well as movies that convinced us that all Americans rode horses and said Y'all, just as Australian movies have convinced the rest of the world that we all say G'day Mate, and have kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our cities.

But Natalee's case has melded people in both our countries in a way that had not happened before.   There have been many attempts to upset our collective apple cart and try to divide and conquer but the machinations of one such in our midst is particularly hard to comprehend.  As Texasmom has outlined it is very reminiscent to me of CapsLockWizard's attempts by several people under one heading.  That deception was uncovered  by our monkey sleuths and I am sure any current and future attempts to use this method to derail threads will meet the same fate.

The continual flogging of a dead horse was also one of the reasons so many monkeys took up the invitation to join a forum elsewhere.  Some of those monkeys no longer frequent the other place, which is all but defunct on the surface,  but continue to read here at SM as guests.  They choose not to post here because of the above constant regurgitating of posts and wild theories. Such a pity that we cannot get back to the sharing of ideas and camaraderie that was once a highlight of this thread.

I am so thankful that Klaas opened my Australian thread and I can potter about and post new items when I consider them relevant or interesting.  After reading at another forum (not the one mentioned above) and seeing how new members from Australia were treated when they dared to post in their own way of speaking and using everyday words and phrases peculiar to us it made me remember how welcome I was made here and how my Aussie lingo was tolerated.  Instead of my posts being poofed or edited, I was asked what I meant many times and because of that we all learned a lot about our different countries.  Fun days.  Thank you mods and monkeys.

And no, this is not a farewell post, although it does tend to read like one on the preview.

 




                
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Anna
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« Reply #467 on: June 12, 2012, 10:56:55 PM »

It once appeared that Joran would escape any form of justice and now he is not only behind bars but in one of the worst prisons in the world according to National Geographic.  I will take their well researched word for it.

Beth said she would be happy with Joran in some "Midnight Express" prison and there he is!  I think they shorten sentences because no one would survive to be released otherwise.  The stench and air bourne disease has to be dreadful and a constant danger.

I doubt that Joran is released in 9 years but if he is, just that much sooner he would be available for his extortion trial.  Those things move unbelievably slow any way being federal.  He even confessed!!!  That's how he got the 30 years instead of life.

The Flores family were spared a trial.  Beth is happy Joran is in such squalor.  And no amount of bribes can make it something it is not.  I don't even care if Joran bribes with his little stipend from the Dutch government because that's just that much more for the prison guards who are likely underpaid.

And when his time in that hellhole is finished, he comes to Federal Court to face a 25 year charge for extortion.

It really deosn't get any better than this in real life given the circumstances.

I declare total victory over Joran for Beth and the Flores and will drink to that!

 

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jamcakes
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« Reply #468 on: June 12, 2012, 11:13:37 PM »



I declare total victory over Joran for Beth and the Flores and will drink to that!

 



 
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jamcakes
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« Reply #469 on: June 12, 2012, 11:21:17 PM »

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE!    (CBB has a pithy version of this which I sing to myself often in this thread)

Yes we had that TV series out here and programmes like that as well as movies that convinced us that all Americans rode horses and said Y'all, just as Australian movies have convinced the rest of the world that we all say G'day Mate, and have kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our cities.

But Natalee's case has melded people in both our countries in a way that had not happened before.   There have been many attempts to upset our collective apple cart and try to divide and conquer but the machinations of one such in our midst is particularly hard to comprehend.  As Texasmom has outlined it is very reminiscent to me of CapsLockWizard's attempts by several people under one heading.  That deception was uncovered  by our monkey sleuths and I am sure any current and future attempts to use this method to derail threads will meet the same fate.

The continual flogging of a dead horse
was also one of the reasons so many monkeys took up the invitation to join a forum elsewhere.  Some of those monkeys no longer frequent the other place, which is all but defunct on the surface,  but continue to read here at SM as guests.  They choose not to post here because of the above constant regurgitating of posts and wild theories. Such a pity that we cannot get back to the sharing of ideas and camaraderie that was once a highlight of this thread.

I am so thankful that Klaas opened my Australian thread and I can potter about and post new items when I consider them relevant or interesting.  After reading at another forum (not the one mentioned above) and seeing how new members from Australia were treated when they dared to post in their own way of speaking and using everyday words and phrases peculiar to us it made me remember how welcome I was made here and how my Aussie lingo was tolerated.  Instead of my posts being poofed or edited, I was asked what I meant many times and because of that we all learned a lot about our different countries.  Fun days.  Thank you mods and monkeys.

And no, this is not a farewell post, although it does tend to read like one on the preview.

 




      Yeah, Tibro!

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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #470 on: June 13, 2012, 12:23:08 AM »

Thanks wreck and magnolia for the amen's!      

Tibro, thank you for the reminder about CBB's version...I remembered someone coming up with a verse but couldn't put my finger on who it was, lol!  Thank you also for the reminder about those who choose to stay in the rafters but are still here for Natalee and Stephany.  That's what it's all about, justice for them and their families.  We still have miles to go, but I know we'll get there together eventually.

  ::justice2NJ::

I think MuffyBee summed it up perfectly.  

Anna, very well stated and I'll drink to that too!   


 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
KittyMom
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Borgman


« Reply #471 on: June 13, 2012, 12:26:17 AM »

I'm just waiting on Urine to get worms.
    
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #472 on: June 13, 2012, 12:46:18 AM »

 Monkey Devil!
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #473 on: June 13, 2012, 12:47:14 AM »





Justice for Natalee!  

 ::justice2NJ::

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
wreck
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« Reply #474 on: June 13, 2012, 12:53:13 AM »

Thanks wreck and magnolia for the amen's!      

Tibro, thank you for the reminder about CBB's version...I remembered someone coming up with a verse but couldn't put my finger on who it was, lol!  Thank you also for the reminder about those who choose to stay in the rafters but are still here for Natalee and Stephany.  That's what it's all about, justice for them and their families.  We still have miles to go, but I know we'll get there together eventually.

  ::justice2NJ::

I think MuffyBee summed it up perfectly.  

Anna, very well stated and I'll drink to that too!   


 
I think 99.9% of us want Joran to be in hell the rest of his short life. Aruba is never going to punish him, so I think 28 years in a Peru hell hole is about as good as we can expect. (I still think he doesn't make it another year anyways.) Peru will protect him until his appeals run out -- then the general population will take him out. Do I hope we can bring him to the US for a trial --YES!! Do I think we will ever get the truth about Natalee out of Joran?? -- sadly NO.  Joran will lose his appeal, he will die shortly thereafter. -- IMO
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wreck
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« Reply #475 on: June 13, 2012, 01:22:07 AM »

31,359 total posts

14,895 posts asking to delete previous post because of "mistake" or "mis-copy & paste"

16,458 posts regurgitating of quotes from past 7 years we have all seen and discredited.

6 original opinions

"Monkey Mega Star"
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jamcakes
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« Reply #476 on: June 13, 2012, 02:00:49 AM »


I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.   ::snipping2::

It went beyond confusing and became infuriating a long time ago for me jamcakes.

In order to continue, I scroll on by as has been instructed many times.

The claims of "devil's advocate" and coating the obvious with undying support for Beth to counter it don't change what it is imo.

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

 

The same type thing happens in other threads as well; whole family conspiracies to murder and cover up, self righteous contempt for victim's families, excessive repeating and bumping of their own posts, constant off topic "life outside the computer room" info, etc. has convinced me that what it boils down to is highlighted in blue above.  I shudder to think how many times that has probably crossed the minds of others reading here at SM.  I really think the goal is to drive away long time members of this forum and discourage those who might think of joining here.  There is a purpose behind the seeming madness, and I truly believe the profile of one elderly lady with her cuppa tea is not doing it alone.  There's not enough time in the day for one person to come up with all this (crapola a lot of the time imo) and package it all up so neatly to post over, and over, and over again.

 

JMHO
 ::snipping2::

I've got to ask, but I feel the need to preface the question with the statement that I'm not advocating or agitating for anything.  I haven't been a member that long, so maybe I don't have the right to ask, but I will.

Why has management allowed all the above for so long?  It certainly is distracting, disruptive, detracting and as you said, discouraging to the other SM readers/posters.  Their message just doesn't seem to jive with what others post, or the tone of SM in general, imo. 



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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #477 on: June 13, 2012, 02:02:30 AM »

31,359 total posts

14,895 posts asking to delete previous post because of "mistake" or "mis-copy & paste"

16,458 posts regurgitating of quotes from past 7 years we have all seen and discredited.

6 original opinions

"Monkey Mega Star"

 

If this is accurate, it wouldn't surprise me at all.  My guess is that it would be close.

But I'd rather pull my toenails out one by one than even consider checking to find out!   

The patience of our wonderful Admin and marvelous Mods amazes me.   an angelic monkey
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
jamcakes
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« Reply #478 on: June 13, 2012, 02:04:30 AM »

ooops, sorry Magnolia, I was trying to trim the quote stack, and accidentally attributed my post to you. So sorry.

Moderator, will you fix this as soon as possible.  Thanks!

I wrote the following:
I've got to ask, but I feel the need to preface the question with the statement that I'm not advocating or agitating for anything.  I haven't been a member that long, so maybe I don't have the right to ask, but I will.

Why has management allowed all the above for so long?  It certainly is distracting, disruptive, detracting and as you said, discouraging to the other SM readers/posters.  Their message just doesn't seem to jive with what others post, or the tone of SM in general, imo. 
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jamcakes
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« Reply #479 on: June 13, 2012, 02:12:31 AM »

31,359 total posts

14,895 posts asking to delete previous post because of "mistake" or "mis-copy & paste"

16,458 posts regurgitating of quotes from past 7 years we have all seen and discredited.

6 original opinions

"Monkey Mega Star"

 

If this is accurate, it wouldn't surprise me at all.  My guess is that it would be close.

But I'd rather pull my toenails out one by one than even consider checking to find out!   

The patience of our wonderful Admin and marvelous Mods amazes me.   an angelic monkey

Wreck - ROTFLMAO - brilliant

TexasMom - Ditto on the above

 Monkey Devil! Monkey Devil!
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     Challapalca him!
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