Natalee Holloway/Stephany Flores Case Discussion #865 5/02/12 - 7/23/12

[klaasend]

Another suicide in "paradise": 


Dama di 31 aña haya sin bida na Juliana Van Stolbergstraat, probablemente aki ta trata di un suicidio


7 hora pasa , 11 di juni 2012 17:33

Dialuna atardi a drenta informe di cu a bin descubri un dama di 31 aña benta abao sin bida na un cas na Juliana Van Stolbergstraat, mesora a dirigi polis na e sitio. NA yegada di e patruya a bin descubri e curpa abao benta y banda di dje un botter di veneno, mesora a solicita presencia di tur autoridad competente. Tin un investigacion andando pa logra saca afor si aki ta trata di un suicidio of un crimen.
 ::snipping2::

[Tamikosmom]

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

You are confused?  I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.

Janet

++++


The Charges

Joran was a winner when he received a 28 year sentence from the Peruvian justice System ... a 28 year sentence which translates into a 9 year sentence rather than a life sentence for a murder beyond brutal?.

Jamcakes?  It makes sense that the Flores family does not believe that justice was served for Stephany?

+++++++

Date set for van der Sloot murder trial
Published: 11/25/2011 9:44 am
Updated: 11/26/2011 8:25 am

<snipped>

In September, the victim's family asked a three-judge panel for a more stringent charge akin to aggravated murder, which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison, but the panel of judges ruled on the prosecution's side.

Van der Sloot's defense attorney Luis Jimenez Navarro told CNN'S In Session this was a big win for his client. If Van der Sloot is found guilty and sentenced to the maximum penalty, under Peru's jail reduction credits, he may only serve a third of the time.

<snipped>

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Date-set-for-van-der-Sloot-murder-trial/J1Yl6nagmkmRXf0qcfRMXA.cspx


The Birmingham Extradition

Joran van der Sloot was a winner when the Peruvian Supreme Court ruled against an immediate extradition to Birmingham to face extortion charges beyond cruel against Beth Holloway?

Jamcakes?  It makes sense that Beth Holloway is not thrilled with the ruling that implies she will be almost 80 years old when she will be testifying against Joran in a Birmingham court room?
______

Joran Van Der Sloot Gets 28 Years in Peru, Now US Wants Him
Jan. 13, 2012

Joran van der Sloot was sentenced today to 28 years in a Peruvian prison for strangling a woman there, and American officials are now expected to bring him to Alabama to face charges in connection with the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway.

The attorney for Holloway's mother, John Q. Kelly, said after today's sentencing that he hopes van der Sloot will be extradited to the U.S. within "a couple of months."

Van der Sloot is charged with extorting $25,000 from Holloway's grieving mother Beth Holloway in exchange for information about the location of Natalee's body. After receving the money, van der Sloot admitted lying about where the girl's body was buried.

"We anticipate that U.S. authorities will move quickly to bring him to Alabama to face pending federal charges and to answer for his past conduct in Aruba," Kelly had said prior to the sentencing.

The U.S. District Attorney in Birmingham, where the case against van der Sloot will be prosecuted, did not immediately return calls for comment. They had previously told ABC News that they had made arrangements with Interpol to have van der Sloot extradited to the U.S.

Any sentence he might receive in the U.S. would be served in conjunction with the 28 years he was sentenced in Peru, Kelly said.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/joran-van-der-sloot-28-years-now-us/story?id=15353765

s.t.

[Magnolia]

I don't think that the 28 year sentence will automatically turn into a 9 year sentence.
There is a small possibility that MAY be the case.  As I recall Joran never thought he
would receive the harsh sentence of 28 years. and there is no gurantee that he will
finish his sentence in 9 years.  That is just wishful thinking on the part of Joran and
his attorney

[Tibrogargan]

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

Give jamcakes a basket of bananas.

Post of the Year IMO

[jamcakes]

Another suicide in "paradise": 

I love the lime green paint scheme on the house.

Another suicide? Gee, living on the "Happy Island" can't be so grand if so many people keep offing themselves.  Or is this another Arubacide labeled as a "sui" instead of a "homi" just to protect the statistics/reputation of the Happy Island?

[klaasend]

Looking at that bright paint in the hot Aruban sun all day would drive me crazy.

[carpe noctem]

Cause of death: Lime Green Overdose

It never surprises me how lax Aruba is. One guy is a cop - the other dude looks like he is ready to weed whack the yard.

...and nobody is wearing any gloves. Aruba is just one notch above the Middle East where they just go fetch a dead guy off

the side of the road, by his legs, and toss him in the back of a Nissan. They did manage to cover this soul... so, maybe

they're improving?

[sharon]

Still interesting how we all interpret differently.

I have no confusion on this thread for 6 years

However, as I read posts on several other threads where victims and their families (NOT POI'S) are trashed, criticized and straight out disrespected, I admit I have to check to see if I'm at RU

 ::justice2NJ::

[Nut44x4]

She must be about two years younger than he is.

https://www.facebook.com/hillarymhawkins

Graduated from Out Of Door Academy
2010
High School

She has 1,490 Friends, lmffaooooooooooooo

[texasmom]

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

It went beyond confusing and became infuriating a long time ago for me jamcakes.

In order to continue, I scroll on by as has been instructed many times.

The claims of "devil's advocate" and coating the obvious with undying support for Beth to counter it don't change what it is imo.

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

 

The same type thing happens in other threads as well; whole family conspiracies to murder and cover up, self righteous contempt for victim's families, excessive repeating and bumping of their own posts, constant off topic "life outside the computer room" info, etc. has convinced me that what it boils down to is highlighted in blue above.  I shudder to think how many times that has probably crossed the minds of others reading here at SM.  I really think the goal is to drive away long time members of this forum and discourage those who might think of joining here.  There is a purpose behind the seeming madness, and I truly believe the profile of one elderly lady with her cuppa tea is not doing it alone.  There's not enough time in the day for one person to come up with all this (crapola a lot of the time imo) and package it all up so neatly to post over, and over, and over again.

 

JMHO


Survival tip:

Sometimes it helps to think about the Rawhide theme as you scroll.   

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE! 

I miss Hotping, that always reminds me of her.   

[jamcakes]

She must be about two years younger than he is.

https://www.facebook.com/hillarymhawkins

Graduated from Out Of Door Academy
2010
High School

She has 1,490 Friends, lmffaooooooooooooo

Relationship Status   In a relationship with Valentijn van der Sloot
Anniversary   March 4, 2012

~~~~~~~~~

Gee, 3 months and a week......must be serious!!   

[jamcakes]

I get so confused reading here ........ sometimes I think I'm reading at RU instead of SM. When I see posts that tell me Joran is the big winner, that Joran will win his appeal and Stephany will have no justice, I close my eyes and reopen them hoping I did not just read that at SM.  The powers that be save Joran, and afford Joran perks, and Joran gets special treatment by the Dutch embassy.  Good grief - is someone pro-Joran, fallen under his spell, playing a bad joke, or trying to set themselves  up with the weird hope of saying "I told you so" later?

Joran is finally in prison, in a particularly harsh prison in Peru, where he cannot do to any more young women and their families what he did to NAH and SR. He was sentenced to 28 years which is a stiff sentence by Peruvian standards. He's been approved for extradition to the USA at some point in the future where he will face charges bearing another possible 25 years.

Natalee's and Stephany's families seem satisfied with this, and trusting in the legal process.  If they are happy, then so am I.  Afterall, I'm here to support Natalee's and Stephany's loved ones, and not be a cheerleader for Joran.

It went beyond confusing and became infuriating a long time ago for me jamcakes.

In order to continue, I scroll on by as has been instructed many times.

The claims of "devil's advocate" and coating the obvious with undying support for Beth to counter it don't change what it is imo.

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

 

The same type thing happens in other threads as well; whole family conspiracies to murder and cover up, self righteous contempt for victim's families, excessive repeating and bumping of their own posts, constant off topic "life outside the computer room" info, etc. has convinced me that what it boils down to is highlighted in blue above.  I shudder to think how many times that has probably crossed the minds of others reading here at SM.  I really think the goal is to drive away long time members of this forum and discourage those who might think of joining here.  There is a purpose behind the seeming madness, and I truly believe the profile of one elderly lady with her cuppa tea is not doing it alone.  There's not enough time in the day for one person to come up with all this (crapola a lot of the time imo) and package it all up so neatly to post over, and over, and over again.

 

JMHO


Survival tip:

Sometimes it helps to think about the Rawhide theme as you scroll.   

"Scrollin' scrollin' scrollin' RAWHIDE! 

I miss Hotping, that always reminds me of her.   

Thanks TexasMom and Tibro too.

It's nice to know that I am not seeing/feeling this by myself.  It is kind of astonishing how 1 mind can come up with all of it.....    ....although most of the time it just appears regardless of what the topic at hand is.

Thanks for the tip on "Scrolling, scrolling, scrolling - Rawhide".  I guess I'll be  doing a lot of giggling at the computer screen from now on.  LOL

Too bad there isn't an ignore feature or a set of like/dislike buttons.   

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

I don't remember now if you were here when the contention was that Joran would be released before the trial for Stephany's murder even took place!  That went on, and on, and on too.

<snipped>

My "contentions" are based on Ricardo Flores' "contentions.

Janet

+++++

Woman's family wants speedy trial for van der Sloot
August 17, 2011

The family of a slain Peruvian woman is urging prosecutors to file their case against murder suspect Joran van der Sloot, warning that he may be released by December unless the case goes ahead.

"We are worried because Peruvian law says that if a suspect's trial doesn't begin within 18 months after his arrest, authorities are obligated to set the suspect free," Ricardo Flores, the dead woman's father, told CNN.

<snipped>

Investigators delivered their case file to prosecutors in June for a decision on charges. Ricardo Flores said the prosecutor in the case, Miriam Riveros Castellares, is "not moving with the speed that a case of this magnitude merits."

"We're asking that either the prosecutor file charges or that authorities remove her from this case and name somebody else," he said.

There was no immediate response to the family's concerns from the prosecutor's office.

<snipped>

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-17/justice/peru.van.der.sloot_1_stephany-flores-sloot-lima-hotel-room?_s=PM:CRIME

[jamcakes]

Cause of death: Lime Green Overdose

It never surprises me how lax Aruba is. One guy is a cop - the other dude looks like he is ready to weed whack the yard.

...and nobody is wearing any gloves. Aruba is just one notch above the Middle East where they just go fetch a dead guy off

the side of the road, by his legs, and toss him in the back of a Nissan. They did manage to cover this soul... so, maybe

they're improving?

ROTFLMFAO

Carpe, I love your sense of humor and your posts!!  Hee Hee!   

[texasmom]

She must be about two years younger than he is.

https://www.facebook.com/hillarymhawkins

Graduated from Out Of Door Academy
2010
High School

She has 1,490 Friends, lmffaooooooooooooo

Relationship Status   In a relationship with Valentijn van der Sloot
Anniversary   March 4, 2012

~~~~~~~~~

Gee, 3 months and a week......must be serious!!   

That anniversary date is just when it became "Facebook" official.  I think they've been together at least a few months longer than that.  But I can't blame them for waiting a few months after the brother's  "guilty of murder" verdict that was televised internationally to make it FB official.

 

I would think at least some of her almost 1500 facebook friends are saying...WTH???

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12718.msg1528948#msg1528948

Hillary Hawkins became friends with Valentijn van der Sloot.
August 30, 2011

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20091206/ARTICLE/912061017?p=4&tc=pg
Formal ball introduces year's new debutantes

By ABBY WEINGARTEN Correspondent
Published: Sunday, December 6, 2009 at 1:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, December 4, 2009 at 6:05 p.m.

 ::snipping2::

Hillary Margaret Hawkins is the daughter of John and Kate Hawkins of Sarasota. She attends The Out-of-Door Academy, where she is a member of the National Honor Society and plays varsity volleyball. She is involved in Invisible Children, Relay For Life, Sarasota Chamber of Commerce Youth Leadership Program, Forty Carrots Parenting Center and the Church of the Palms.
 ::snipping2::

I think this is Hillary's mother's Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/catherine.a.hawkins

Catherine A Hawkins became friends with Valentijn van der Sloot.
October 22, 2011

Catherine A Hawkins became friends with Anita Hugen.
December 28, 2011

Hillary posted "love." on this picture from Nov 2011 too.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12718.msg1528958#msg1528958

[jamcakes]

Relationship Status   In a relationship with Valentijn van der Sloot
Anniversary   March 4, 2012

~~~~~~~~~

Gee, 3 months and a week......must be serious!!   

That anniversary date is just when it became "Facebook" official.  I think they've been together at least a few months longer than that.  But I can't blame them for waiting a few months after the brother's  "guilty of murder" verdict that was televised internationally to make it FB official.

 

I would think at least some of her almost 1500 facebook friends are saying...WTH???

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12718.msg1528948#msg1528948

Hillary Hawkins became friends with Valentijn van der Sloot.
August 30, 2011

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20091206/ARTICLE/912061017?p=4&tc=pg
Formal ball introduces year's new debutantes

By ABBY WEINGARTEN Correspondent
Published: Sunday, December 6, 2009 at 1:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, December 4, 2009 at 6:05 p.m.

 ::snipping2::

Hillary Margaret Hawkins is the daughter of John and Kate Hawkins of Sarasota. She attends The Out-of-Door Academy, where she is a member of the National Honor Society and plays varsity volleyball. She is involved in Invisible Children, Relay For Life, Sarasota Chamber of Commerce Youth Leadership Program, Forty Carrots Parenting Center and the Church of the Palms.
 ::snipping2::

I think this is Hillary's mother's Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/catherine.a.hawkins

Catherine A Hawkins became friends with Valentijn van der Sloot.
October 22, 2011

Catherine A Hawkins became friends with Anita Hugen.
December 28, 2011

Hillary posted "love." on this picture from Nov 2011 too.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=12718.msg1528958#msg1528958

Thanks TexasMom.

I guess it must be serious then, if she continued with Val during and after Joran's trial. And after meeting Anita and the doughboy brother.  Ugghhh, I cannot imagine having Anita as my boyfriend's mother (and potential MIL) claiming to be in a relationship with me. Gag me.   

I shudder at the thought of another generation of vdSlooty's running around.   

[texasmom]

Reminder

With Joran's guilty plea, the trial was over.  With that the possibility of proving with testimony and evidence that Joran was indeed guilty of the more serious crime that would have made a life sentence possible; was over too.

The guilty plea, with a maximum possible sentence of 30 years was acceptable to Ricardo Flores.  It would save his family more pain, stress, and worry from a lengthy trial and allow them to mourn and try to find peace after the loss of their beloved Stephany.

With the antics displayed by Joran in the few days in the courtroom that ended with the guilty plea and 28 years sentence, when I think of a full trial and what tricks may have been pulled out of the VDS hat; I think this was the best and least painful path for Justice for Stephany and her family. 

There were no guarantees of that possible life sentence, and there are no guarantees that 28 years will equate to 9 either.

jmo

http://peru21.pe/2012/01/06/actualidad/padre-stephany-flores-sentencia-le-dara-mi-familia-paz-2006340

Ricardo Flores 'Plea Agreement will give peace to my family'

Friday January 6, 2012 | 3:20

Father of Stephany Flores spoke of the possibility that Joran Van der Sloot is found guilty of murdering his daughter. If the Dutch do, the trial would end 48 hours later, said the defense of the affected part.

The father of Stephany Flores , Ricardo Flores, said that an early termination of the trial against Joran Van der Sloot , the alleged murderer of his daughter, will allow your family have peace.

Flowers made ​​these statements after the trial was suspended until Wednesday 11 January at the request of the defense of the Dutch, who evaluates eligible for early termination figure of the process. Accept the charges of murder but not aggravated robbery.

"I'm not surprised by conformity to be raised in accepting the prosecution. Sensed that this would happen. It is good that this ends quickly (...). I think this will allow my family can have some peace and dedicate ourselves to save and mourning, " said the girl's father killed in a press conference.

ONLY 48 HOURS
If the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot decides to make the figure according to the indictment, the trial for the death of the young end up in only 48 hours, said today the affected attorney, Edward Alvarez.

 ::snipping2::

[MuffyBee]

  Hi TexasMom! 

 ::boxingjoran::

[texasmom]

Hi TexasMom! 

 ::boxingjoran::

Hi MuffyBee! 

 

Hey, could someone please turn the heat down a little out there!   

 

 ::boxingjoran::

Is winter coming soon in Peru?   



 ::boxingjoran::

[Tamikosmom]

It's called acceptance of a situation when it is realized that despite giving it your all ... the outcome is what the outcome is.  IMO

Janet

+++++

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


Holding Out Hope

Flores, Holloway families await van der Sloot's trial
1/13/2012

<snipped>

According to Edwar Alvarez, the Flores family’s lawyer, with different charges Van der Sloot could receive life imprisonment.

"We aim to present evidence during the trial that will lead the prosecutor to change the classification of the crime, so that it becomes robbery followed by murder. This will not be 30 years in prison, but life imprisonment,” he told the Lima newspaper El Comercio.

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Flores-Holloway-families-await-van-der-Sloots/KxiEyoDHDEypHoVG4yN6Sw.cspx

 
The Damage is Done

Van der Sloot Gets 28 Years for Murder in Peru
Jan 13, 2012 6:15 PM EST

After the conviction ...

<snipped>

Flores’s attorney took the microphone and demanded: “How can it be that a person that is in prison is more comfortable than if he were free? We will hold a press conference to present all the irregularities in this man’s imprisonment on Monday.”

“Mr. Flores wants peace for his family. The damage is done and it is beyond repair,” he continued.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/13/van-der-sloot-gets-28-years-for-murder-in-peru.html


I Stay Focused

Natalee Holloway: Lost in Paradise
TLC – 2010-01-17

Beth Holloway

'What I can do is hopefully share some life lessons and prevent this tragedy from happening to another family.  I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I cannot.  I cannot get justice for Natalee.'

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293


Others Might Learn

Loving Natalee
A Mother's Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway with Sunny Tillman

Page 189:    It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's very, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead. From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.  I'm taking leave of the island, but not from the work yet to be done.
 
Page 200:  My child.  My beautiful daughter.  I can't save her.  It's too late.  Natalee is gone. And second to the great tragedy of losing her is if we fail to learn from what has happened.  I could be any parent in the world.  And no parent should ever go through this experience.  Natalee could be anyone's daughter.  And in these thoughts a new path is made clear.  There is something I can do.  Many people reached out to us, and I can now reach back to them.  It might be too late to save Natalee, but it's not too late to save others.  And it's time now to make good on my pledge. It's time now to make good on my pledge to stand before high-school and college students, law enforcement professionals, victims' rights groups, travelers of all ages, and anyone interested in personal safety to share Natalee's story and our hard lessons, so that others might learn from them.

ty