Lively Case Discussion #649 6/30 - 7/3/2007am

[2NJSons_Mom]

There is a thread on the bb.visitaruba.com message board titled Crime in Aruba.  I thought it might be an interesting read, especially for MsMarple & Anna.  I noticed a news article that I hadn't seen here about an incident at a bar called Chasers...maybe because we've been missing Leslie's paper delivery.  Hope she's okay.

i thought we had discussed that one... but there are so many, maybe I am confused

You may be right...I may have missed it.

There is also a member who had a bad experience last visit to the island....

[klaasend]

Sorry about the double post....

Here is the link...to that thread...

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=7249

I saw this at the 24ora site but of course it wasn't in English:


Damage At Chasers Cafe, One Person Seriously Injured
June 28th 2007, Aruba.
 
Police restored order at Chasers Cafe







ORANJESTAD-What suppose to be a nice bar hopping night on board the Chiva Paranda bus, ended in a big physical fight among a group of American tourists at Chasers Cafe last Tuesday.

At the cafe there was a dispute between two Americans that resulted in a physical fight, more tourists that were part of the group joined in. A number of police officers immediately arrived at the scene to restore order.

One of the persons involved received a serious injury to the head and
had to be transported to the hospital. Police detained an American who was involved in the fight at the cafe. The cause of the big fight is still not clear.

The interior of Chasers Cafe suffered much damage. It is not known
whether the owner will have those involved in the fight pay for the
damages.

Chasers Cafe is one of the popular stops for the bar hopping
tour on board the Chiva Paranda bus. The cafe is located on the Adriaan Lacle Boulevard in Oranjestad.

[oldfart]

Hi gang...
Just wondering about something...

About Joran's 5/31/2005 statement that he recalls in this statement

JORAN 06/14/2005 STATEMENT

At approximately 11.15 am my father and me left the school grounds and we went to the police station in Bubali. My father and I talked somewhat about the missing girl. I don't remember what was said. One thing my father certainly said to me was to tell the truth. My father was right, I should have done that. I had told my father that we had dropped the girl off at the hotel. My father also told me that I was going to be interviewed as a witness. On the way to Bubali police station I called Deepak. I said to Deepak that I was en route to make a statement to the police about the missing girl. Deepaks answer to this was: "Shit". Deepak told me to stick to the story that we had dropped the girl off at the Holiday Inn. I couldn't properly talk to Deepak because my dad was in the car. At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that. During the interview I called Deepak on his mobile. I had asked him what clothes Natalee had been wearing that night. He told me that Natalee was wearing a blue skirt and a blue top. I also said to Deepak that the police would come and pick him to so that he could give a statement. Deepak had told me that he would come to the police station on his own.

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .
   

[Blonde]

Tamikosmom

Interesting affidavit from Helen Lejuez. I recall reading about another attempt on Jorans part to pick up a girl, the one he followed to the bathroom, and showed the knife to, and claimed "My fathers a powerful lawyer, and I can do whatever I want." (may not be verbatim)......the guy is a predator.

11. Miss Doe told me that, in the aftermath of Joran van der Sloot's attack on Miss Doe, she was threatened and intimidated by Joran van der Sloot, his friends and others. She had been terrified to come forward and tell her story in Aruba. Miss Doe has not even advised her family of this attack.

How many diffrent people intimidated these poor girls? I know Beth and Dave think Dennis Jacobs had a word with them also.

I read a statement from the father of one of these girls..Said he came forward because what happened to his daughter was eerily similar to Natalee.

This must be why she changed her story

[Easywriter]

I made the mistake of reading all the stuff about the boycott, and how a few people are "in disagreement" and voicing their opinions.  I think some people get away with way too much in the name of "disagreeing" with the boycott.  I just don't want to hear it.  No one can change my mind.  Aruba had no sympathy for Beth, Dave and Natalee, and I have no sympathy for them.  Period.

I agree ... although I don't read at BFN  -

Easy,... the pictures are nice, but how about putting them in the lounge???

Whateva! lol

[mrs. red]

I made the mistake of reading all the stuff about the boycott, and how a few people are "in disagreement" and voicing their opinions.  I think some people get away with way too much in the name of "disagreeing" with the boycott.  I just don't want to hear it.  No one can change my mind.  Aruba had no sympathy for Beth, Dave and Natalee, and I have no sympathy for them.  Period.

I agree ... although I don't read at BFN  -

Easy,... the pictures are nice, but how about putting them in the lounge???

what does that mean??

[Easywriter]

I made the mistake of reading all the stuff about the boycott, and how a few people are "in disagreement" and voicing their opinions.  I think some people get away with way too much in the name of "disagreeing" with the boycott.  I just don't want to hear it.  No one can change my mind.  Aruba had no sympathy for Beth, Dave and Natalee, and I have no sympathy for them.  Period.

I agree ... although I don't read at BFN  -

Easy,... the pictures are nice, but how about putting them in the lounge???

what does that mean??

That means delete them if you wish.  I don't much care.  For some reason pictures of me and my family upset people on this forum.  Delete them, delete them, delete them!

[Observer]

*******,
they even made a reference to Shango   and the twenty times before.... I was really impressed with the show...

they had the hanging vines of Babylon....

WOW!! Thats a trip!! Now you really have me bummed that I missed it:? What night is that on again??

When I was on Google Earth the other day you can click the landmarks in Aruba and it brings up a pic and links..You can learn about the Arawaks that fought the french..etc..I lost interest because at the moment I only care about one thing in Aruba..

[mrs. red]

I made the mistake of reading all the stuff about the boycott, and how a few people are "in disagreement" and voicing their opinions.  I think some people get away with way too much in the name of "disagreeing" with the boycott.  I just don't want to hear it.  No one can change my mind.  Aruba had no sympathy for Beth, Dave and Natalee, and I have no sympathy for them.  Period.

I agree ... although I don't read at BFN  -

Easy,... the pictures are nice, but how about putting them in the lounge???

what does that mean??

That means delete them if you wish.  I don't much care.  For some reason pictures of me and my family upset people on this forum.  Delete them, delete them, delete them!

How about putting them on your blog???? I simply ask that they not be posted in this thread... they don't particulary upset me but they aren't about Natalee either.

[Tamikosmom]

I speculate ... if Karen Martina is Miss Doe ... she was either intimidated or compensated.  Either way it worked ... she was silence.


Beth Twitty
HANNITY & COLMES
April 11, 2006

TWITTY: Well, those young girls...those are the girls, who came forward this summer.  I believe they came forward in August, and were giving statements to the police as to what Joran had done to them. And from what I am reading in the same papers that you are, that these young girls, obviously, will feel more comfortable coming forward in New York. I mean, they were really pressured by several different people and officials on the Island of Aruba to retract their statements. And it was difficult enough for them to come forward as it was.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

TWITTY: Well, those girls were coming forward, and they were meeting with attorneys and giving their statements to the authorities in front of their attorneys. It seemed as if once the suspects were released, I don't know if someone was able to get to these young girls and to have them retract these statements or if they became fearful of—you know, that they had given this information. I don't know, Rita, but it was very suspicious how the girls were coming forward and then all of a sudden had retracted their statements.

[mrs. red]

I speculate ... if Karen Martina is Miss Doe ... she was either intimidated or compensated.  Either way it worked ... she was silence.


Beth Twitty
HANNITY & COLMES
April 11, 2006

TWITTY: Well, those young girls...those are the girls, who came forward this summer.  I believe they came forward in August, and were giving statements to the police as to what Joran had done to them. And from what I am reading in the same papers that you are, that these young girls, obviously, will feel more comfortable coming forward in New York. I mean, they were really pressured by several different people and officials on the Island of Aruba to retract their statements. And it was difficult enough for them to come forward as it was.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

TWITTY: Well, those girls were coming forward, and they were meeting with attorneys and giving their statements to the authorities in front of their attorneys. It seemed as if once the suspects were released, I don't know if someone was able to get to these young girls and to have them retract these statements or if they became fearful of—you know, that they had given this information. I don't know, Rita, but it was very suspicious how the girls were coming forward and then all of a sudden had retracted their statements.

I think both.

[Observer]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

After skeeters passed they said they he was paying off people to lie and say that Joran assaulted them. Now they say beth was bribing witnesses.

I know for a fact that at least one of those girls called the FBI. A Couple of them went to the ALE before Natalee was missing and nothing was ever done!!!

[mrs. red]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

After skeeters passed they said they he was paying off people to lie and say that Joran assaulted them. Now they say beth was bribing witnesses.

I know for a fact that at least one of those girls called the FBI. A Couple of them went to the ALE before Natalee was missing and nothing was ever done!!!

Also the other thing is the woman from Boston that said she was raped, the woman where I think they dreamt up the beach story... (she was on Greta) was from Boston as well.  Word has to have gotten out about it....

[Red]

I was watching Law & Order Criminal Intent last night reruns and on came their version of The Natalee Holloway disappearance taking place in NYC.

I must say I really missed many parts from when I first watched it when it originally came out. They really did a good job at L&O of researching and nailing some of the fine points.

Right down to making a Shango reference about referring to Babylon.

Has anyone else seen the episode I am referring to?

[mrs. red]

*******,
they even made a reference to Shango   and the twenty times before.... I was really impressed with the show...

they had the hanging vines of Babylon....

WOW!! Thats a trip!! Now you really have me bummed that I missed it:? What night is that on again??

When I was on Google Earth the other day you can click the landmarks in Aruba and it brings up a pic and links..You can learn about the Arawaks that fought the french..etc..I lost interest because at the moment I only care about one thing in Aruba..

It was a Law & Order marathon in honor of Fred Thompson on USA....

[Angiex911dsptchr]

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 Umm I"m here but playin on Nones music thread she started..  LOL
I think I may need banned from there.. Im a youtube freak now recalling all those songs I like..
 Ask BB.. she'll cover for me..  

[Tamikosmom]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

After skeeters passed they said they he was paying off people to lie and say that Joran assaulted them. Now they say beth was bribing witnesses.

I know for a fact that at least one of those girls called the FBI. A Couple of them went to the ALE before Natalee was missing and nothing was ever done!!!

Oberserver ... according to  Freddy's attorney you are right on!

Janet


DECATUR DAILY
August 31, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

Emerencia said Zedan-Arambatzis has denied having any physical contact with the girl or taking photos of her, but has admitted to being present when the photos were taken.

The prosecutor's office declined to comment on the case.

[igsigs]

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .

According to the book > Jacobs, VDStraten, Paulus and Joran were present for the 5/31 statement. Joran says he was surprised that Paulus asked VDStraten if he could sit on the interview, but says VDStraten had no choice in the matter because Joran was a minor. Also goes on to blame Paulus by saying this forced him to continue with the HI lie, implyng that he would have told the *truth* if just Jacobs/VDStraten were there.

[Observer]

I know you guys all have seen this story..

Another lady from boston in like 1996.. Who was drugged with her Husband at the excelsior/HI. She was taken out to the desert and raped for 2 days while her husband was drugged and put in a closet. She told the ALE and they did nothing except tell her no big deal thats a whore house out there.(Something like that)

That same week they ran into one of the guys responsible and held him..They called the ALE and they put him in the back of the police car uncuffed and they drove off and nothing was ever done..

She also called the FBI after hearing about natalee.

[Observer]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

After skeeters passed they said they he was paying off people to lie and say that Joran assaulted them. Now they say beth was bribing witnesses.

I know for a fact that at least one of those girls called the FBI. A Couple of them went to the ALE before Natalee was missing and nothing was ever done!!!

Oberserver ... according to  Freddy's attorney you are right on!

Janet


DECATUR DAILY
August 31, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

Emerencia said Zedan-Arambatzis has denied having any physical contact with the girl or taking photos of her, but has admitted to being present when the photos were taken.

The prosecutor's office declined to comment on the case.

One of the suspected charges was sex with a unconscious female!!! Sick isnt it?? Certainly wasnt just because they took pictures of a teen and passed them around.