Lively Case Discussion #649 6/30 - 7/3/2007am

[Buckeye]

Now, this is interesting:

On June 11th 2005, at approximately 17:30 hours, we interviewed the suspect S.S. KALPOE for further information.

"The statements I gave before were not entirely based on the truth.
I am now willing to make a statement in accordance with the truth. "

"On the way to the Holiday Inn Hotel Joran told my brother to turn right at some point. At Joran's request my brother turned right and drove into the street just north of the Marriot Hotel. My brother continued driving up the street until Joran said that he should stop the car. My brother then brought the car to a full stop. My brother asked Joran how he was going to get home. Joran answered that he would find a way to get home. My brother asked Joran if he was sure he would find another way to get home. Joran said that he was sure that he would find a way to get home. At that moment it was approximately 01.45 hours on May 30th 2005."

If they continued up the street...is that by the Racquet Club and where the gardner saw them??  What if it was an hour off??  They could have been at Joran's then decided to drop him by the Racquet club (because the gardner saw them).  Joran said he went to the beach...but he never did...

[truthseeker2]

San--you said something the other day about Freddy being the original fourth suspect. How did you learn this? Why wasn't it widely publicized? Do you think Freddy joined the group after C&Cs and J2K left that detail out (along with the rest of the truth)?

I believe Lorenzo is the 5th suspect.

Joran
Deepak
Satish
Paulus
Lorenzo

I don't think Freddy became a suspect until much later.

[Buckeye]

I think the "One witness is no witness" statement isn't just from Simian/Shango--I think it's a part of Dutch law where if only one person can corroborate a story (or incriminate someone else), that's not enough; you need more than one.

I'm not an international legal mind, but that is how I've always understood it.

So, who is the "one witness"?  Freddy??

[Destiny]

i think JORAN was the one that CONFESSED

then it was RETRACTED



BET THE FARM on it  

Robots...one of the reasons I hardly ever post is that we think so much alike....are we clones?

BTW, I agree, she is on land, but some/something of hers is in H2O...Sea? Well? Lake/pond?

It will be solved...it will be BIG!

I want a new avatar....pls help.

Destiny

[truthseeker2]

Now, this is interesting:

On June 11th 2005, at approximately 17:30 hours, we interviewed the suspect S.S. KALPOE for further information.

"The statements I gave before were not entirely based on the truth.
I am now willing to make a statement in accordance with the truth. "

"On the way to the Holiday Inn Hotel Joran told my brother to turn right at some point. At Joran's request my brother turned right and drove into the street just north of the Marriot Hotel. My brother continued driving up the street until Joran said that he should stop the car. My brother then brought the car to a full stop. My brother asked Joran how he was going to get home. Joran answered that he would find a way to get home. My brother asked Joran if he was sure he would find another way to get home. Joran said that he was sure that he would find a way to get home. At that moment it was approximately 01.45 hours on May 30th 2005."

If they continued up the street...is that by the Racquet Club and where the gardner saw them??  What if it was an hour off??  They could have been at Joran's then decided to drop him by the Racquet club (because the gardner saw them).  Joran said he went to the beach...but he never did...

That street is not by the Racquet Club.  The time, however, it the time Joran says they were parked outside his house.

[Buckeye]

San--you said something the other day about Freddy being the original fourth suspect. How did you learn this? Why wasn't it widely publicized? Do you think Freddy joined the group after C&Cs and J2K left that detail out (along with the rest of the truth)?

I believe Lorenzo is the 5th suspect.

Joran
Deepak
Satish
Paulus
Lorenzo

I don't think Freddy became a suspect until much later.

Well, Freddy spilled the beans to Anita and Antonio Carlo that first week.  My guess is, he was called in pretty early.

[BlueKYGirl]

Buckeye, I just spent the last few days working on a spreadsheet of all the various timelines from everyone's statements. (I'm pregnant and tired all the time, so it was the perfect thing to occupy me).

If the spreadsheet has taught me anything, it's that between the time the group left C&Cs and when Joran sent those text messages and e-mails at around 3 a.m., there are so many conflicting stories placing the boys and Natalee in various surroundings. Sometimes they went to the beach, sometimes Deepak went back for Joran, sometimes Joran walked home barefoot, sometimes they went to the VDS home before the lighthouse. I'm not sure if the truth is anywhere in those documents.

(It is interesting to compare the few statements from the MB kids, though--for instance, in Lee Ashford Broughton's statement she says that Natalee ignored Joran at one point on the way to the ladies' room at C&Cs--you'll never hear Joran telling THAT detail of the story!)

[truthseeker2]

I think the "One witness is no witness" statement isn't just from Simian/Shango--I think it's a part of Dutch law where if only one person can corroborate a story (or incriminate someone else), that's not enough; you need more than one.

I'm not an international legal mind, but that is how I've always understood it.

So, who is the "one witness"?  Freddy??

The one who confessed???  That's what I was thinking.

[Buckeye]

Now, this is interesting:

On June 11th 2005, at approximately 17:30 hours, we interviewed the suspect S.S. KALPOE for further information.

"The statements I gave before were not entirely based on the truth.
I am now willing to make a statement in accordance with the truth. "

"On the way to the Holiday Inn Hotel Joran told my brother to turn right at some point. At Joran's request my brother turned right and drove into the street just north of the Marriot Hotel. My brother continued driving up the street until Joran said that he should stop the car. My brother then brought the car to a full stop. My brother asked Joran how he was going to get home. Joran answered that he would find a way to get home. My brother asked Joran if he was sure he would find another way to get home. Joran said that he was sure that he would find a way to get home. At that moment it was approximately 01.45 hours on May 30th 2005."

If they continued up the street...is that by the Racquet Club and where the gardner saw them??  What if it was an hour off??  They could have been at Joran's then decided to drop him by the Racquet club (because the gardner saw them).  Joran said he went to the beach...but he never did...

That street is not by the Racquet Club.  The time, however, it the time Joran says they were parked outside his house.

I think that street does go toward the Salinas and Racquet Club. IIRC

[Observer]

I think Lorenzo's name was floating around much earlier than the 16th or 18th when he was questioned.

[LilPuma]

No one saw them at the beach.  At least not that we know of.  I think Deepak left Joran and an injured, unconscious Natalee by the Racquet Club, where the gardener saw them.  They agreed by the pool that they'd say "the beach" if the HI story fell through.  Their HI story was falling apart before they were arrested.  That's how Paulus knew they were going to be arrested.  

Just now on Montel, a psychologist is talking about sociopaths.  He says they have no conscious.  That's how Joran could kill and go home to look up soccer scores.  He also said there are different types of sociopaths.  Some want to humiliate and often use sex to do so.  Others want total domination and are the violent ones.  I wish this guy had talked longer, but Montel went back to his guests, all of whom had been victims of violence.

[truthseeker2]

San--you said something the other day about Freddy being the original fourth suspect. How did you learn this? Why wasn't it widely publicized? Do you think Freddy joined the group after C&Cs and J2K left that detail out (along with the rest of the truth)?

I believe Lorenzo is the 5th suspect.

Joran
Deepak
Satish
Paulus
Lorenzo

I don't think Freddy became a suspect until much later.

Well, Freddy spilled the beans to Anita and Antonio Carlo that first week.  My guess is, he was called in pretty early.

Called in because Deepak said Joran told Freddy what happened.  I don't think Freddy became a suspect at that point...just a witness.

[BlueKYGirl]

San--you said something the other day about Freddy being the original fourth suspect. How did you learn this? Why wasn't it widely publicized? Do you think Freddy joined the group after C&Cs and J2K left that detail out (along with the rest of the truth)?

I believe Lorenzo is the 5th suspect.

Joran
Deepak
Satish
Paulus
Lorenzo

I don't think Freddy became a suspect until much later.

Well, Freddy spilled the beans to Anita and Antonio Carlo that first week.  My guess is, he was called in pretty early.

I don't know where San heard that about Freddy--I was asking about why we don't have any statements from him in the Important Case Documents page since there are so many references to him knowing "the truth." Apparently there are a lot of interesting things about Freddy in the translation of Joran's book, which I haven't yet looked at.

I totally think Lorenzo is involved, too. Especially since everyone always tries to downplay Lorenzo--this makes him even more suspicious to me.

[igsigs]

On June 11th 2005 at about 12:10 hours, we, the reporting officers, interviewed the suspect D.S. KALPOE, for further information.

"I am now willing to make a statement that is in accordance with the truth."

On June 11th 2005, at approximately 17:30 hours, we interviewed the suspect S.S. KALPOE for further information.

"The statements I gave before were not entirely based on the truth.
I am now willing to make a statement in accordance with the truth. "

Thanks truthseeker2. The wording in these statements does indicate that 6/11 was the day the Ks dropped the HI story. But...to me it remains unclear that they told the HI story in court on 6/10, in part because of their reluctance to tell any story in the PVs right before the hearing. No doubt there are 6/10 PVs for the Ks that we have not seen but, again, it is unclear what version they contain or if they contain any version at all.

[Buckeye]

No one saw them at the beach.  At least not that we know of.  I think Deepak left Joran and an injured, unconscious Natalee by the Racquet Club, where the gardener saw them.  They agreed by the pool that they'd say "the beach" if the HI story fell through.  Their HI story was falling apart before they were arrested.  That's how Paulus knew they were going to be arrested.  

     

[Observer]

Its not just Freddy that we dont have statements from its also Guido and Lorenzo. They were all left out of loop on purpose..MO

[Buckeye]

Its not just Freddy that we dont have statements from its also Guido and Lorenzo. They were all left out of loop on purpose..MO

Or those statements were not released.  Or Joran has a couple not in the K2 file....because they only refer to him.....

[Destiny]

Welcome DUGGA!

I'm the quiet and crazy one....but I still believe there will be Justice for Natalee and her Family.

I lurk a lot

Destiny

[truthseeker2]

Its not just Freddy that we dont have statements from its also Guido and Lorenzo. They were all left out of loop on purpose..MO

Yep.  And Guido skipped down right away.  There were a 'slew' of people posting over at RWV in defense of Lorenzo.

[truthseeker2]

Its not just Freddy that we dont have statements from its also Guido and Lorenzo. They were all left out of loop on purpose..MO

Yep.  And Guido skipped down right away.  There were a 'slew' of people posting over at RWV in defense of Lorenzo.

Oops...Guido skipped town right away.