Pope Benedict and His Latest Move

[LouiseVargas]

A high school friend of mine who lives near San Francisco just wrote me that the online edition of "The Jerusalem Post" has reported that Pope Benedict has approved resumption of the Tridentine mass, in which Jews are called "perfidious" and said to be blind to the church's man-god.  My friend said, "Well, this Pope was in the Hitler Youth so I guess that not much has changed. I'm sure glad that Israel has plenty of nukes."

http://tinyurl.com/2sx4hn

Well, I wondered what perfidious means.
1 : not true to allegiance or duty : TREACHEROUS , DISLOYAL <a faithless servant>
2 : not to be relied on : UNTRUSTWORTHY <a faithless tool>
- faith·less·ly adverb
- faith·less·ness noun
synonyms FAITHLESS , FALSE , DISLOYAL , TRAITOROUS , TREACHEROUS , PERFIDIOUS mean untrue to what should command one's fidelity or allegiance. FAITHLESS applies to any failure to keep a promise or pledge or any breach of allegiance or loyalty <faithless allies>. FALSE stresses the fact of failing to be true in any manner ranging from fickleness to cold treachery <betrayed by false friends>. DISLOYAL implies a lack of complete faithfulness to a friend, cause, leader, or country <disloyal to their country>. TRAITOROUS implies either actual treason or a serious betrayal of trust <traitorous acts punishable by death>. TREACHEROUS implies readiness to betray trust or confidence <a treacherous adviser>. PERFIDIOUS adds to FAITHLESS the implication of an incapacity for fidelity or reliability <a perfidious double-crosser>.

So, how about that? I thought Benedict was reaching out to all religions. Apparently not. I liked him very much until I heard about this. Is he or is he not anti-semetic?

Thoughts?

[Dihannah1]

Interesting and sad if true.   I have my own thoughts on the Pope and Catholic religion, but won't go into it here.....

[LouiseVargas]

Forgive my passion but I'm upset about this issue.
 
Can someone please post a reply or opinion? I know there are lots of Catholics in the forum. Where are you? Is it ok with you that the Pope has reinstated a mass wherein Jews are called TREACHEROUS, DISLOYAL, UNTRUSTWORTHY, FAITHLESS, FALSE, DISLOYAL, TRAITOROUS, and PERFIDIOUS?

I know I cannot personally do anything about it. It is hard to believe a modern day Pope, Benedict, has done this. It's a controversial subject but we have been together for over three years and shared many opinions. I wonder why you are silent.

Why would a recently elected Pope revert to antisemetism? Is the Pope joining up with the Muslims?

[A's Fever]

Hi Louise,

The Tridentine Mass is simply the old, traditional Latin mass used by the church for something like 1500 years.  The Mass was said to have been passed down from the Apostles and was codified by the Council of Trent in the 1500's.  This mass remained in use until the Second Vatican Council approved major changes in the early 1960's.  At that time the vernacular was substituted for Latin, the altar was turned around so that the priest now faced the parish, prayers were modernized and the liturgy modified to allow for greater participation by the parish and lay celebrants.  

The changes were highly controversial, as you can imagine given the lengthy tradition of the church, and some conservatives within the church would still prefer the original Mass.  In fact, it is my understanding that the Tridentine was restricted but not outlawed by Second Vatican Council, and anyone looking for a Latin Mass should be able to find one.  Here in the Bay Area, I believe that there are a couple of parishes that still offer the Latin Mass.

I've never heard that the old liturgy was anti-semitic, but, considering its ancient origin and unchangeable nature, that is certainly possible.  I would like to see such prayers or passages in translation because I am at a loss as to what they might say.  I doubt there are many American Catholics today, other than the very old, who could tell you what is in the Latin Mass!  But remember the focus and purpose of the mass is to contemplate our Lord and celebrate consecration of the host, not to denigrate anyone else.  It is very interesting that the Jerusalem Post and Jewish groups would isolate this probably minor aspect of the Catholic liturgy.

Our recent Popes have traveled the world in order to open dialog and build bridges between people of diverse thought and religious practices.  I would hope that our current Pope will continue this mission.  He is very conservative however and I think that he may wish to reach out to ultra-traditional Catholics worldwide who still oppose the new Mass.  I seriously doubt his intent is to alienate any group.

Incidentally, I do not think there is any discussion about doing away with the Second Vatican Council changes, but simply to ease restrictions on celebrating the Tridentine Mass.

The Pope is set to issue a decree explaining his reasons for wanting to expand the use of this Mass.  Perhaps he will also respond to charges of anti-semitism, or propose changes or deletions to the original text.  Let's wait and see what he has to say before falling prey to this type of media coverage.

[mrs. red]

LV, I am so glad that A's explained that!  I am not Catholic hence my silence on the subject... in all the times I have been to Catholic mass I have never, ever once heard anything of anti-Semantics.

[A's Fever]

LV, apparently the word "perfidious" was removed in 1962 but some Jewish groups are concerned about a couple of other prayers.  

Pope's Latin Mass push may revive prayer for Jews
Thu Jul 5, 2007 1:44PM BST

SNIP   Benedict's decree is due to revive a 1962 Latin prayer book that removed the word "perfidious" but left standing prayers for their conversion that ask God to "take the veil" off Jewish hearts and show mercy "even for the Jews," Church sources said.

The decree aims to woo back traditionalists devoted to the old Latin rite. The move is controversial among Catholics, since many traditionalists reject the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) including the opening to other faiths.

Abraham Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), a United States-based Jewish civil rights group, was cautious ahead of the publication of the document.

"From second-hand sources, my understanding is they understand our concern, our sensitivity, our distress," Foxman said in Rome. "And I think they're not about to add to that distress after all the efforts we've made with reconciliation."  SNIP

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL0583120920070705

I could not locate any Catholic websites dealing with the Jewish prayers, however I did run across some interesting history and also some translations of the old rite.  Thanks for bringing this up, LV, I find it all very interesting, both the questions you raise and the Catholic history behind the Mass and I enjoyed looking into this matter very much.  It will be interesting to see how Benedict handles these sensitive issues.

[LouiseVargas]

A's,

This mass is called "The Dark Mass" and has not been used for centuries.

You haven't heard that this "old liturgy" was anti-Semitic? I posted it above that the Trinidine mass is now back in favor, but I don't think this is the appropriate time for the Pope to reenact it unless he is secretly siding with the Muslims against Jews. Let's say he is. What then? He has insider info?

In that mass, Jews are called:
1 : not true to allegiance or duty : TREACHEROUS , DISLOYAL <a faithless servant>
2 : not to be relied on : UNTRUSTWORTHY <a faithless tool>
- faith·less·ly adverb
- faith·less·ness noun
synonyms FAITHLESS , FALSE , DISLOYAL , TRAITOROUS , TREACHEROUS , PERFIDIOUS mean untrue to what should command one's fidelity or allegiance. FAITHLESS applies to any failure to keep a promise or pledge or any breach of allegiance or loyalty <faithless allies>. FALSE stresses the fact of failing to be true in any manner ranging from fickleness to cold treachery <betrayed by false friends>. DISLOYAL implies a lack of complete faithfulness to a friend, cause, leader, or country <disloyal to their country>. TRAITOROUS implies either actual treason or a serious betrayal of trust <traitorous acts punishable by death>. TREACHEROUS implies readiness to betray trust or confidence <a treacherous adviser>. PERFIDIOUS adds to FAITHLESS the implication of an incapacity for fidelity or reliability <a perfidious double-crosser>.

And further, what the f does it mean that Benedict's decree is due to revive a 1962 Latin prayer book that removed the word "perfidious" but left standing prayers for their conversion that ask God to "take the veil" off Jewish hearts and show mercy "even for the Jews."

Excuse me?!!! I can't believe it.  Doesn't that take the cake? Benedict wants God to "take the veil off Jewish hearts." What a lot of nerve he has just shown by saying there is a veil on Jewish hearts.  He does not stand for freedom of religion. He wants converts. He was highly elevated in his position in the Hitler Youth organization.

[A's Fever]

Hi Louise,

I don't know of any Catholic Mass known as the Dark Mass.  That sounds like the Black Mass, associated with the occult.

The Tridentine Mass in question is based on the 1962 Roman missal:

http://www.latinmass.org/faq.html

Benedict explains his revival of the Mass:

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703893.htm
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703895.htm

You can check out a translation of the Mass yourself.  There are no offending passages as far as I can see:

http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/TextContents/Index/4/SubIndex/66/TextIndex/17

Louise, no one contends that the Pope is for freedom of religion.  The Church is well known to be authoritarian, hierarchical and patriarchal - it is not a democratic institution and does not claim to be.  

I don't want to put myself in the position of defending the Church since I am no longer a practicing Catholic (well, most of the time anyway).  As a woman - and a divorced woman - I have many issues with this church and its teachings.  

But the prayer in question is a Good Friday prayer used once a year, a very small part of a year long liturgy. While I can see where you might find the prayer offensive, you seem to have your mind firmly made up on that issue.   You must understand that in the Christian worldview, spreading the Word and praying for the salvation of others is considered a good thing, an imperative, not an insult.  We are just dealing with fundamentally different worldviews here, but that does not make the prayer anti-semitic.  

The Mass is not about the Jews.  This move is not about the Jews, but about trying to unify or assuage the concerns of the ultra conservatives by one very conservative Pope.  Of greater concern to me is the fear that all the progress made by the Second Vatican Council will be slowly eroded under this Pope.

I have no knowledge about what goes on in Synagogues, the manner of worship or the language of prayers.  But I personally would never say that your liturgy should pray this way or that.  Our religions are autonomous, and should be able to formulate matters of doctrine and liturgy internally, without the influence of outside groups.  

JMO

[LouiseVargas]

That's so funny, Mrs.Red.

Was the priest speaking English or Latin?

The first time I went with my husband to his Lutheran church it was Good Friday and I heard a very anti-Semitic message. The Pastor tried to spin the semantics but it didn't work for me.

[LouiseVargas]

But the prayer in question is a Good Friday prayer used once a year. That's nice. Why only on Good Friday?

Do you know the most dangerous time of year for Jews is Easter/Passover? It has always been thus for hundreds of years.

Why is this mass performed only on  Good Friday?