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Author Topic: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland, OR #45 1/1/14 - 8/8/2015  (Read 425962 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #100 on: January 16, 2014, 12:20:39 AM »

What investigative backup was Desiree denied ... investigative backup that would have furthered her lawsuit against Terri?

Janet

+++++++


THE LAWSUIT

Mother files lawsuit saying Terri Horman kidnapped Kyron
Published: Jun 1, 2012 at 12:13 PM PST
Last Updated: Dec 5, 2013 at 5:40 AM PST


<snipped>

In the suit, Young’s lawyers wrote that Terri Horman “feigned ignorance of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance” and “lied to investigating authorities and to the media regarding her activities on June 4, 2010.”

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/156429105.html

http://katubim.s3.amazonaws.com/Terri%20Horman%20Lawsuit.pdf


Judge agrees to delay civil suit against Terri Horman
Published: Nov 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM PST
Last Updated: Nov 28, 2012 at 6:54 AM PST


PORTLAND, Ore. – A judge has delayed the civil suit filed by Kyron Horman’s mother, Desiree Young, against the boy’s step-mother, Terri Horman.

Judge Henry Kantor made the ruling last week following a request from Multnomah County District Attorney Michael Shrunk.

Shrunk wrote in his request that information from the civil case could jeopardize their ongoing investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.

<snipped>

In requesting that the civil case be put on hold and the related documents be sealed, Shrunk argued that the moves were “in the best interest of justice” and will “preserve the integrity of the investigation and promote the safety of the witnesses involved.”

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Judge-agrees-to-delay-civil-suit-against-Terri-Horman-181069861.html


Desiree Young drops suit against Terri Horman
Published: Tuesday, July 30, 2013, 11:36 AM PDT


<snipped>

At a news conference on the steps of the Multnomah County Justice Center, an emotional Desiree Young said that going forward with the lawsuit would interfere with the criminal investigation, something she was not willing to do.

"In order for my lawyers to move forward with the case at this point, it would be necessary for them to seek access to the police criminal investigation files," Young said. "My lawyers have advised me that the Oregon Public Records Disclosure Law does not provide the release of ongoing police investigation files."

<snipped>

http://www.koin.com/news/multnomah-county/desiree-young-drops-suit-against-terri-horman

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« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2014, 12:23:06 AM »

A MOTHER'S AGONY

Desiree Young drops suit against Terri Horman
Published: Tuesday, July 30, 2013, 11:36 AM PDT


<snipped>

"Ky, it has been three years since you were taken from me, and every day that you are not here safe in my arms is another day of agonizing torture," a sobbing Young said. " The deafening silence in the house is just too much for me. Please know that no matter what happens, I will fight for you to the end of time."

<snipped>

http://www.koin.com/news/multnomah-county/desiree-young-drops-suit-against-terri-horman



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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2014, 03:13:11 PM »



A very interesting read in its entirety.  IMO

Janet

++++

Sealed Indictment Law & Legal Definition

<snipped>

A sealed indictment an indictment that is sealed so that it stays non-public until it is unsealed. This can be done for a number of reasons. It may be unsealed, for example, once the named person is arrested.

The following is an example of a federal rule dealing with sealed indictments:

The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment’s existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/sealed-indictment/



Were attorneys Chad Stavely and Peter Bunch privy to the existence of a sealed indictment regarding Terri?  Was Judge Kantor privy to the existence of a sealed indictment?

Janet

++++


CHAD STAVELY

Attorney: Spicher shared Terri Horman emails, texts with cops
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 12:09 PM


<snipped>

Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.

"I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case," Stavley said. "I'd be surprised if the indictment didn't come down."

<snipped>

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html


PETER BUNCH

Terri Moulton Horman, focus in stepson Kyron Horman's disappearance, shows for divorce hearing
August 25, 2010 at 2:40 PM


<snipped>

In a legal memo filed today, Bunch argues that Terri Horman can't proceed at this time to protect her rights to property, custody and parenting time because she is a "de facto suspect" in the disappearance of Kyron and at the center of a police investigation.

<snipped>

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/terri-horman-court-memo.pdf


JUDGE KANTOR

Judge calls stepmother 'prime suspect' in Kyron Horman case
Posted on August 21, 2012 at 5:12 PM


PORTLAND – A judge in the civil lawsuit of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman has issued his decision not to grant a stay in the civil case, and laid out rules for attorneys to gather evidence.

Last week, a judge denied the motion by Kyron's stepmother Terri Horman to delay the civil lawsuit filed against her by the boy's mother Desiree Young.

Judge Henry Kantor referred to her as a “prime suspect” in the investigation, although Terri Horman has never been formally named a suspect in any criminal case.

<snipped>

http://www.king5.com/news/Judge-calls-stepmother-prime-suspect-in-Kyron-Horman-case-166981086.html

http://media.king5.com/documents/kyron+judge+doc+821.pdf
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2014, 03:35:16 PM »


THE 3 1/2 YEAR INVESTIGATIVE HOLD UP

Could it be that that the silent Kyron Horman investigation is far reaching as well as layered?

Could it be that investigators are not only focused on Terri but a small chain of participants?

Could it be that one link in the small chain of participants has a "safe haven" connection outside the borders of the United States?

Could it be that the "safe haven" link in the small chain of participants may be the smoking gun that will allow investigators to bring Kyron home?  That is my prayer.

Janet

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2014, 03:58:34 PM »

"I still think we have an obligation into an ongoing investigation to find Kyron and concluding that effort while pursuing what's in my daughter's best interest along that path," Kaine Horman said. "And, at some point, there's going to be closure to both."  Kaine Horman - September 13, 2013

http://www.kptv.com/story/23425918/attorney-terri-horman-wasnt-last-person-to-see-kyron-horman-at-school

++++++

Kaine knows!!
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2014, 03:29:03 PM »

On June 28, 2013 a restraining order preventing Terry access to her daughter was served and she was also being forced out of her home but ... Terry's attorneys did not challenge.  Why?

When all is said and done ... does Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch REALLY want to depose investigator Bobby O'Donnell in regards the "probable" cause to believe the allegations that Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance as well as a MFH attempt against Kaine ... the allegations that formed the foundation of the restraining order?

Also could it be that Stephen Houze is also bluffing when he states that he wants to depose Rudy Sanchez in regards to what was gleaned by LE during the recorded sting?

Could it be that over three years later in June, 2013 Terri's attorneys finally made the decision to challenge the restraining order by taking full advantage of Don Rees' refusal to compromise the ongoing investigations in the releasing of investigative documents that could implicate their client in wrongdoing?

Think about it.  The judge ruled on September 17, 2013 in favour of the motions filed by Terri's attorneys ... the motions requesting permission to depose Skyline faculty as well as staff of designated businesses.  As it currently appears these depositions have yet to happen.  Could it be that Stephen Houze was bluffing when he asserted that the questioning of these alleged witnesses would further his claim that Terri was not the last known person to be seen with Kyron?  Could it be that Don Rees called his bluff because investigators were aware that NOTHING these alleged witness revealed would further the defence of Terri? 

Janet

++++++

+++++


Police led Kaine to believe Terri involved in Kyron's disappearance
Posted on July 8, 2010 at 12:05 PM


<snipped>

A Multnomah County judge made the key document public Thursday.

"I believe Respondent (Terri) is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010," Kaine stated in the filing. "I also recently learned that Respondent (Terri) attempted to hire someone to murder me. The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true," Horman wrote.

<snipped>

http://www.kgw.com/news/Key-Horman-document-could-be-made-public-97975779.html

http://media.kgw.com/documents/restraining-order-horman.pdf


Terri Horman agrees to leave house
Posted on July 8, 2010 at 4:33 PM


PORTLAND --  Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman will not challenge a request to move out of the former family home, a letter from her lawyer read Monday.

The boy's father Kaine Horman had added a clause to a restraining order that she leave the home last week. A July 22 scheduled hearing in the case was cancelled, according to the court.

<snipped>

http://www.kgw.com/home/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html


Judge renews restraining order against Terri Horman
Published Jun 21, 2013 at 9:50 AM PST


<snipped>

Terri Horman's lawyers argued against renewing the restraining order, saying Kaine Horman's petition was based on hearsay. But the judge signed it anyway, based in part, he said, on the notion that it had already been granted three years in a row and circumstances between Kaine and Terri have not changed much.

Terri Horman's lawyers said she plans to contest the restraining order renewal, which is a first. She has not contested it previously.

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Kyron-Hormans-parents-due-for-court-appearance-today-212508111.html


Judge rules Terri Horman's lawyers can't depose investigator or students, but can question Skyline School teachers, various business staff
September 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM
updated September 17, 2013 at 9:26 AM


Lawyers for Terri Moulton Horman can't question one of the lead sheriff's investigators in the disappearance of her stepson Kyron Horman, but can start deposing faculty at the missing boy's school and adults at area businesses, according to a judge's ruling Monday.

<snipped>

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/09/judge_rules_terri_hormans_lawy.html

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Order%20Regarding%20Depositions.pdf
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2014, 05:25:07 PM »

Could it be that Bunch and Houze believed that the depositions of employees from the establishments that their client entered on the morning of June 4, 2010 WITHOUT Kyron would somehow affirm that he had been left at the school as Terri claimed?  One problem!  The owner of Magic Cleaners stated to media that not only was Kyron not with Terri ... neither was Kiara.  Terri was alone!!  Where was Kiara?  Who was watching Kiara?

Somehow I doubt that a deposition from Sari Shanti ... the owner of Magic Cleaners ... will be forthcoming.

Janet

+++++


Judge: Terri Horman's lawyers cannot question investigator
Posted on September 16, 2013 at 8:30 AM
Updated Tuesday, Sep 17 at 3:18 PM


PORTLAND -- Terri Moulton Horman's divorce attorneys will not be allowed to interview a lead investigator in the disappearance of her stepson, Kyron Horman, and the alleged murder-for-hire plot against her husband, Kaine Horman, a judge announced Monday.

Investigators said for years that Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron before he disappeared from Skyline Elementary in July, 2010. But her attorneys said Friday that was not the case.

<snipped>

Judge Kantor Monday granted a motion filed by Kaine Horman's attorneys to stop Terri Horman's attorneys from questioning deputy O'Donnell.

However, Terri Horman's attorneys can conduct their own investigation. They will be allowed to interview witnesses, including teachers at Skyline Elementary and employees of Fred Meyer, Magic Cleaners and 24-hour Fitness. They will not be allowed to question Skyline students.

Video (1:25)
http://www.kgw.com/news/Judge-Terri-Hormans-lawyers-cannot-subpoena-lead-investgator-223927381.html

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2014, 05:49:51 PM »

Was Kiara with Terri at the school?   Was Kiara with Terri at the Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy Fred Meyers?  Was Kiara with Terri at Albertsons?  Was Kiara with Terri at the Waterhouse Avenue 24 Hour Fitness?  Has any witnesses come forward?

Angela Leckey testified that she had an encounter with Terri and Kiara at the Walker Rd Fred Meyer.  Sari Shanti ... owner of Magic Cleaners ... states to media that Terri was in her establishment alone on the morning of June 4, 2010.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2014, 06:24:40 AM »

  an angelic monkey

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« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2014, 12:56:19 PM »

"Right before the holidays Tony and I received a briefing from LE where they gave us all the evidence on the case.  We're confident from that briefing that we have the right person.  She put everything in writing.  She had a severe severe hatred for Kyron and she made no mystery to how she felt.  She very clearly wanted him out of her life." Desiree Young - February 2, 2011

http://www.kpic.com/news/116678914.html?t=a&video=pop

+++++



Kyron Horman's Mother Speaks Out
11/15/2010


Transcript Excerpt

<snipped>

On Friday LE showed Desiree emails Terri had sent to friends describing her marriage to Kaine and her feelings about Kyron)

Desiree: It's very clear from Terri's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron, and that a lot... she blamed a lot of the marital problems between Kaine and herself on Kyron, that it was a huge point of contention in their marriage, and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for Kyron.

I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting Kyron, that it's clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way

<snipped>

http://www.today.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247


Missing Kyron's Dad Points Finger at Stepmom
Kaine Horman suspects his estranged wife knows what happened to his son.
04:13 | 11/19/2010


Transcript Excerpt

<snipped>

Reporter: Have you seen the emails that are being talked about where Terri allegedly talks about hurting Kyron?

Kaine: Yeah, well, I, I've seen them. Yes.

Reporter: What is in those emails?

Kaine: I'm not gonna talk about it. It's information that's supposed to be confidential to the investigation, and...

Reporter: Did they only solidify your belief that Terri's responsible?

Kaine: Everything that we see moving forward just adds to the pile.

<snipped>

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-kyrons-dad-points-finger-stepmom-12189940?tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=11128091&page=1
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2014, 01:02:01 PM »

"Terri put everything in writing which God love her has been a blessing for us."  Desiree Young - Dr. Phil Show - September, 2013


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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2014, 01:12:21 PM »

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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2014, 06:24:30 PM »


Police led Kaine to believe Terri involved in Kyron's disappearance
Posted on July 8, 2010 at 12:05 PM


<snipped>

A Multnomah County judge made the key document public Thursday.

"I believe Respondent (Terri) is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010," Kaine stated in the filing. "I also recently learned that Respondent (Terri) attempted to hire someone to murder me. The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true," Horman wrote.

<snipped>

http://www.kgw.com/news/Key-Horman-document-could-be-made-public-97975779.html

http://media.kgw.com/documents/restraining-order-horman.pdf



LOGIC?

Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Thursday 7 October 2010 11:24


Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:

<snipped>

There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”

The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.

<snipped>

Read more:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/10/07/kyron-horman-missing-kaine-and-terri-horman-face-off-in-family-court/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2014, 06:28:46 PM »

"Trying to press forward to find Kyron and protect my daughter are the two things that are in the highest priorities."   Kaine Horman - June 30, 2013

http://www.koin.com/news/31700-autosave




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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2014, 06:35:18 PM »

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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2014, 06:42:46 PM »

"I can tell you what I ate that day, she can't tell you where she was."  Desiree Young[/b]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-imminent-in-kyron-horman-search/

+++++++


Mother files lawsuit saying Terri Horman kidnapped Kyron
Published: Jun 1, 2012 at 12:13 PM PST


<snipped>

In the suit, Young’s lawyers wrote that Terri Horman “feigned ignorance of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance” and “lied to investigating authorities and to the media regarding her activities on June 4, 2010.”

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/156429105.html

http://katubim.s3.amazonaws.com/Terri%20Horman%20Lawsuit.pdf
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2014, 10:36:32 PM »


"I can tell you what I ate that day, she can't tell you where she was."  Desiree Young

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-imminent-in-kyron-horman-search/

+++++++


Mother files lawsuit saying Terri Horman kidnapped Kyron
Published: Jun 1, 2012 at 12:13 PM PST


<snipped>

In the suit, Young’s lawyers wrote that Terri Horman “feigned ignorance of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance” and “lied to investigating authorities and to the media regarding her activities on June 4, 2010.”

<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/156429105.html

http://katubim.s3.amazonaws.com/Terri%20Horman%20Lawsuit.pdf
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2014, 10:48:25 PM »

"For the time is coming when everything that is covered will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all."  Matthew 10:26


Sheriff refocuses Kyron investigation
Posted on September 17, 2010 at 7:19 AM
Updated Thursday, Oct 7 at 8:15 AM


<snipped>

Staton said there had been "significant movements" in the 15-week investigation and there was a more defined scope, allowing them to not be as broad in their efforts. Investigators can now concentrate on their current course to support a theory of what happened to the boy. He said he had seen no evidence that indicated Kyron was not alive.

When asked if people would be shocked to find out what they know, Staton took a long silence.

"I know I'm taking a long pause on that, I have to think through that answer. I think there are things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you'll think about later on when it's over. We have a knowledge of things we don't want to know about ... of things we wish we didn't know," he added

<snipped>

http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-No-evidence-Kyron-Horman-is-not-alive-103003704.html
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2014, 01:22:05 AM »

I have never seen a missing person's forum pages hijacked so much without any moderation. Perhaps I am the only one who has drawn the conclusion that there is a high level of insanity with all of these re-posts, and a constant one-person counter argument..
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An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Monkey Junky Jr.
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« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2014, 01:29:02 AM »

I have never seen a missing person's forum pages hijacked so much without any moderation. Perhaps I am the only one who has drawn the conclusion that there is a high level of insanity with all of these re-posts, and a constant one-person counter argument..
What r u talking about?
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