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Author Topic: The Slaying of Trayvon Martin in Florida #2 5/10/12 - 7/12/12  (Read 242253 times)
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Amys Sister
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« Reply #140 on: May 18, 2012, 08:20:06 PM »

Here is a study that shows 13% of all children have fatty liver.  Of those, only 38% are obese.  There are several causes of fatty liver and in children alcohol consumption is not considered to be a cause.  High cholesterol and triglycerides is a cause so it is more likely diet was a factor with Trayvon.  (thin people can have high cholesterol and Trayvon was considerably thin for his height)  I'm not saying Trayvon didn't drink but it is unfounded at this point and would be surprising to me if that was a cause for his fatty liver. 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1388.full.pdf

I also know people on anti anxiety medication and when they are not taking their medication they can be intense and take action without thinking things all the way through.  Muffy is right, though, we don't know why GZ was prescribed the pills.

Yes, there were breakins in the neighborhood but GZ had three past examples of being considered a threat... a friend of his had a protective order against him, he was fired for being too aggressive from a prior employer, and he was charged with attacking a police officer.  I believe he was overzealous in his actions against Trayvon.  I believe he, George Zimmerman, was the aggressor and when Trayvon enacted the 'Stand Your Ground Law' to protect himself GZ then murdered him and is now trying to claim he was the victim. 



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« Reply #141 on: May 18, 2012, 08:43:20 PM »

I have several thoughts here...

THC can stay in your blood stream for quite a time.  I know this personally as I have seen the  results of drug testing.  (I have no idea when TM smoked the MJ but I do know that just because it shows in a drug test that does not provide conclusive proof that the person is high at that point).

I do not approve of some of the ways that the Martin family has handled this event - or maybe I should say the way they are portrayed in the media and with the black civil rights leaders.  BUT, if my son went out for Skittles and this happened, I would be on the warpath also.  TM did not go looking for trouble that night.  Maybe he had been in trouble before, but not that night.

GZ had no right to follow him, and confront him.  Now if GZ was in his home, or on his balcony and then felt threatened, I see reason to persue protecting himself.  But to follow him around?  Even LE told him to back off.

Maybe TM was standing his ground when he was pummeling GZ on the ground? 

JMO but I think GZ was so paranoid about the break ins in his complex that he was unrealistically reacting.

I also think that neighborhood Watch purpose is to "watch" and call authorities.

GZ did not do that. did he?

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« Reply #142 on: May 18, 2012, 09:07:01 PM »

In an otherwise unremarkable and inconclusive New York Times report on the latest released findings in the Trayvon Martin shooting incident, the liberal rag decides to drop an unverified, practically un-sourced bomb on George Zimmerman.
 

When police officers arrived on the scene of the shooting of Trayvon Martin on the rainy night of Feb. 26, they tried frantically to revive the 17-year-old, who had been shot in the chest and was lying motionless behind a row of town houses in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
 
Authors Serge F. Kovaleski and Campell Robertson conclude a rambling "he said, she said" nothingburger with this:
 

The reports may give rise to other mysteries as well, including the identity of a woman who called another investigator, less than two full days after the shooting.
 
The woman refused to identify herself or give any callback numbers, but told the investigator that Mr. Zimmerman “has racist ideologies and that he is fully capable of instigating a confrontation that could have escalated to the point of Zimmerman having to use deadly force.”
 
The police were never able to track her down.
 
Anyone can pick up a phone and say anything to the police, as this apparent non-person did. It's nothing more than an un-sourced quote lacking corroboration, let alone substantiation. Why put it out there? If there were anything to it, why didn't the two reporters here do some legwork so that they might offer some substance to back up such an incendiary claim?   ::snipping2:: 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/18/NYT-s-Reckless-Despicable-Attack-On-George-Zimmerman

That is more absurd reporting IMO, hell anyone could get a track phone and call and tell LE that Trayvon was  _____fill in the blank with whatever sounds the most damning, and wrt the profiling, well I call BS on that too, remember the black older woman neighbor who told reporters that she said "“Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.”.........yes, that is the elephant in the room and a tragedy turned into a witch hunt with the help of a man with the blood of 8 victims that are dead in their grave from racial incitement and a liberal media that jumped on a false narrative.

So, how many have been beat innocently from this one tragedy at this point around the country so far ? If GZ is not convicted of 2nd degree murder which IMO is way overcharged by Corey who prosecuted a woman who fired a shot that hit no one out of fear to 20 yrs in prison and basically has set a tone that IMO will lead to riots, and more victims if the outcome is not favorable to those hell bent on this GZ is a racist pig who executed a child narrative. I am thinking Watts on steroids but pray I am wrong.
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« Reply #143 on: May 18, 2012, 09:26:15 PM »

Unfortunately, it's a very common misconception, and this lady doesn't sound like she has much experience handling firearms.  Shooting schools teach if you are in fear for your life and need to defend yourself, you draw your firearm and you aim for mass.  They don't teach shooting at arms and legs.  You may only get one shot. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/story?id=16380864
Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die'
May 18, 2012

 ::snipping2::
The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2012, 09:32:17 PM »

Here is a study that shows 13% of all children have fatty liver.  Of those, only 38% are obese.  There are several causes of fatty liver and in children alcohol consumption is not considered to be a cause.  High cholesterol and triglycerides is a cause so it is more likely diet was a factor with Trayvon.  (thin people can have high cholesterol and Trayvon was considerably thin for his height)  I'm not saying Trayvon didn't drink but it is unfounded at this point and would be surprising to me if that was a cause for his fatty liver. 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1388.full.pdf

I also know people on anti anxiety medication and when they are not taking their medication they can be intense and take action without thinking things all the way through.  Muffy is right, though, we don't know why GZ was prescribed the pills.

Yes, there were breakins in the neighborhood but GZ had three past examples of being considered a threat... a friend of his had a protective order against him, he was fired for being too aggressive from a prior employer, and he was charged with attacking a police officer.  I believe he was overzealous in his actions against Trayvon.  I believe he, George Zimmerman, was the aggressor and when Trayvon enacted the 'Stand Your Ground Law' to protect himself GZ then murdered him and is now trying to claim he was the victim. 





While I have read that study, the majority of those children were overweight and the prevalence of the disease in African American youth is almost non existent (according to the study you cited it is 1.5 percent). I do not know if TM was a drinker, but I do know that a good majority of young people I deal with do not start with MJ but start with booze. I do not know if TM was one of them. I do know that the facts in this case show he was a strong young man. I do know that GZ may have had no reason to follow TM except that crime in that area was increasing. This crime included eight burglaries, nine thefts, dozens of break-ins (at least one with a woman and infant upstairs) and one shooting. It is my understanding several of these crimes were committed by black males. Zimmerman had every right to walk the sidewalks, he even had the right to follow TM. TM made the choice, instead of going to his dad's apartment which is where he was heading, to confront GZ. When he confronted GZ with violence, GZ had the right to defend himself.

I know that GZ in not Lilly white but he was doing something to help his community. Was TM?  TM was kicked out of school for drugs. He was suspended multiple times. Possession of burglary tools and large amounts of women's jewelry are a couple of the incidents.  Imagine being the woman home with her child when someone breaks in. We do not know that TM did not have something to do with the break-in - neither did GZ.  We have been told he was going to the store and was coming back. He did have skittles and tea - but we do not know if that was a cover story or not.  All GZ knew is that he felt like the first line of protection against what could be a bad guy. He did not chase TM down and attack him - he did not shoot TM from a distance. The evidence seems to show that TM physically attacked GZ. That changed the game. I have felt that fear - I know that all I wanted was to get the bad guy that was threatening me to stop. If it had become physical or I felt AT THAT MOMENT that my life was in danger, I would not have hesitated to use deadly force.

I know that my opinion is not popular but it is what I feel. I work and shop in an area where people get attacked by others frequently. One of our employees was mugged and beaten at a walmart two days ago. If her husband had not been there to intervene who knows where her and her child would have been. One of my favorite quotes is that all that evil needs is for good people to do nothing. I do not know if GZ is a good guy, but he is not an evil person either.
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« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2012, 09:32:19 PM »

Fear of riots should not prevent justice from being served in this case.  Let it go to court and let the chips fall where they may.  Also, I just don't hear many people calling Zimmerman a racist pig.  He's been accused of profiling but the term racist has been used by very few people from what I have read.

The question is, was profiling fair in this case?  Is it ever fair?  I would argue that it is acceptable under certain circumstances, this being one of them.  In the act of profiling, does that then make it okay to leave your vehicle while armed to confront someone because of your frustration that they will get away before the police arrive?

No it does not.  Had GZ allowed the police to do their job an innocent Trayvon would be alive and this would never have happened.  GZ was not in fear of his life or he would never have left his truck and it was that pivotal decision that led to a deceased Trayvon Martin and made GZ the aggressor. 

In regards to Trayvon's blood tests, knowing what I know about teenagers, the fact that he only had trace amounts of marijuana in his system (trace amounts indicates he rarely smokes weed) actually speaks to him being a pretty good kid.  Here in our low crime rural town I can tell you a lot of kids would have more than trace amounts in their system and probably beer, too, from the house party they may have attended.

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« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2012, 09:34:17 PM »

Unfortunately, it's a very common misconception, and this lady doesn't sound like she has much experience handling firearms.  Shooting schools teach if you are in fear for your life and need to defend yourself, you draw your firearm and you aim for mass.  They don't teach shooting at arms and legs.  You may only get one shot. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/story?id=16380864
Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die'
May 18, 2012

 ::snipping2::
The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."
 ::snipping2::

Muffy I agree with you. My shooting teacher and friends that are LEO have told me go for the center of mass. I do not think that people realize how hard it is to shoot a leg or arm. We see it on TV but it is not reality. My one friend was a sniper for the Marines and he said if confronted he would shoot for center of mass.
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« Reply #147 on: May 18, 2012, 09:36:05 PM »

In an otherwise unremarkable and inconclusive New York Times report on the latest released findings in the Trayvon Martin shooting incident, the liberal rag decides to drop an unverified, practically un-sourced bomb on George Zimmerman.
 

When police officers arrived on the scene of the shooting of Trayvon Martin on the rainy night of Feb. 26, they tried frantically to revive the 17-year-old, who had been shot in the chest and was lying motionless behind a row of town houses in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
 
Authors Serge F. Kovaleski and Campell Robertson conclude a rambling "he said, she said" nothingburger with this:
 

The reports may give rise to other mysteries as well, including the identity of a woman who called another investigator, less than two full days after the shooting.
 
The woman refused to identify herself or give any callback numbers, but told the investigator that Mr. Zimmerman “has racist ideologies and that he is fully capable of instigating a confrontation that could have escalated to the point of Zimmerman having to use deadly force.”
 
The police were never able to track her down.
 
Anyone can pick up a phone and say anything to the police, as this apparent non-person did. It's nothing more than an un-sourced quote lacking corroboration, let alone substantiation. Why put it out there? If there were anything to it, why didn't the two reporters here do some legwork so that they might offer some substance to back up such an incendiary claim?   ::snipping2:: 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/18/NYT-s-Reckless-Despicable-Attack-On-George-Zimmerman

That is more absurd reporting IMO, hell anyone could get a track phone and call and tell LE that Trayvon was  _____fill in the blank with whatever sounds the most damning, and wrt the profiling, well I call BS on that too, remember the black older woman neighbor who told reporters that she said "“Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.”.........yes, that is the elephant in the room and a tragedy turned into a witch hunt with the help of a man with the blood of 8 victims that are dead in their grave from racial incitement and a liberal media that jumped on a false narrative.

So, how many have been beat innocently from this one tragedy at this point around the country so far ? If GZ is not convicted of 2nd degree murder which IMO is way overcharged by Corey who prosecuted a woman who fired a shot that hit no one out of fear to 20 yrs in prison and basically has set a tone that IMO will lead to riots, and more victims if the outcome is not favorable to those hell bent on this GZ is a racist pig who executed a child narrative. I am thinking Watts on steroids but pray I am wrong.

I do not think you are wrong IM. My son was attacked for being white a couple of weeks ago. It is real and it is happening.
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« Reply #148 on: May 18, 2012, 09:37:55 PM »

Here is a study that shows 13% of all children have fatty liver.  Of those, only 38% are obese.  There are several causes of fatty liver and in children alcohol consumption is not considered to be a cause.  High cholesterol and triglycerides is a cause so it is more likely diet was a factor with Trayvon.  (thin people can have high cholesterol and Trayvon was considerably thin for his height)  I'm not saying Trayvon didn't drink but it is unfounded at this point and would be surprising to me if that was a cause for his fatty liver. 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1388.full.pdf

I also know people on anti anxiety medication and when they are not taking their medication they can be intense and take action without thinking things all the way through.  Muffy is right, though, we don't know why GZ was prescribed the pills.

Yes, there were breakins in the neighborhood but GZ had three past examples of being considered a threat... a friend of his had a protective order against him, he was fired for being too aggressive from a prior employer, and he was charged with attacking a police officer.  I believe he was overzealous in his actions against Trayvon.  I believe he, George Zimmerman, was the aggressor and when Trayvon enacted the 'Stand Your Ground Law' to protect himself GZ then murdered him and is now trying to claim he was the victim. 


BBM I think you hit the nail on the head. I've always believed that the one person that night who had every right to claim protection under Stand Your Ground was Trayvon Martin.
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« Reply #149 on: May 18, 2012, 09:44:41 PM »

Here is a study that shows 13% of all children have fatty liver.  Of those, only 38% are obese.  There are several causes of fatty liver and in children alcohol consumption is not considered to be a cause.  High cholesterol and triglycerides is a cause so it is more likely diet was a factor with Trayvon.  (thin people can have high cholesterol and Trayvon was considerably thin for his height)  I'm not saying Trayvon didn't drink but it is unfounded at this point and would be surprising to me if that was a cause for his fatty liver. 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1388.full.pdf

I also know people on anti anxiety medication and when they are not taking their medication they can be intense and take action without thinking things all the way through.  Muffy is right, though, we don't know why GZ was prescribed the pills.

Yes, there were breakins in the neighborhood but GZ had three past examples of being considered a threat... a friend of his had a protective order against him, he was fired for being too aggressive from a prior employer, and he was charged with attacking a police officer.  I believe he was overzealous in his actions against Trayvon.  I believe he, George Zimmerman, was the aggressor and when Trayvon enacted the 'Stand Your Ground Law' to protect himself GZ then murdered him and is now trying to claim he was the victim. 





While I have read that study, the majority of those children were overweight and the prevalence of the disease in African American youth is almost non existent (according to the study you cited it is 1.5 percent). I do not know if TM was a drinker, but I do know that a good majority of young people I deal with do not start with MJ but start with booze. I do not know if TM was one of them. I do know that the facts in this case show he was a strong young man. I do know that GZ may have had no reason to follow TM except that crime in that area was increasing. This crime included eight burglaries, nine thefts, dozens of break-ins (at least one with a woman and infant upstairs) and one shooting. It is my understanding several of these crimes were committed by black males. Zimmerman had every right to walk the sidewalks, he even had the right to follow TM. TM made the choice, instead of going to his dad's apartment which is where he was heading, to confront GZ. When he confronted GZ with violence, GZ had the right to defend himself.

I know that GZ in not Lilly white but he was doing something to help his community. Was TM?  TM was kicked out of school for drugs. He was suspended multiple times. Possession of burglary tools and large amounts of women's jewelry are a couple of the incidents.  Imagine being the woman home with her child when someone breaks in. We do not know that TM did not have something to do with the break-in - neither did GZ.  We have been told he was going to the store and was coming back. He did have skittles and tea - but we do not know if that was a cover story or not.  All GZ knew is that he felt like the first line of protection against what could be a bad guy. He did not chase TM down and attack him - he did not shoot TM from a distance. The evidence seems to show that TM physically attacked GZ. That changed the game. I have felt that fear - I know that all I wanted was to get the bad guy that was threatening me to stop. If it had become physical or I felt AT THAT MOMENT that my life was in danger, I would not have hesitated to use deadly force.

I know that my opinion is not popular but it is what I feel. I work and shop in an area where people get attacked by others frequently. One of our employees was mugged and beaten at a walmart two days ago. If her husband had not been there to intervene who knows where her and her child would have been. One of my favorite quotes is that all that evil needs is for good people to do nothing. I do not know if GZ is a good guy, but he is not an evil person either.


What if Trayvon was the one who feared for his life and just wanted to get the bad guy who was threatening him?  What if GZ pulled his jacket aside and exposed his weapon in an effort to prevent Trayvon from running and Tray's fight or flight instinct kicked in and he chose to fight?  All kinds of assumptions are being made about Trayvon and a lot of excuses are being made for GZ.  I think you're actually in the majority here, which is fine because you're raising good arguments I just don't necessarily agree with them.

To our knowledge, Trayvon has no previous charges or accusations of assault nor has he had a restraining order against him.  GZ has.

The above study included 548 kids (IIRC) so eight of those 548 kids were black and had liver disease that was not a result of alcohol consumption.  Trayvon very well may have been one of those kids.
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« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2012, 09:54:49 PM »

Here is a study that shows 13% of all children have fatty liver.  Of those, only 38% are obese.  There are several causes of fatty liver and in children alcohol consumption is not considered to be a cause.  High cholesterol and triglycerides is a cause so it is more likely diet was a factor with Trayvon.  (thin people can have high cholesterol and Trayvon was considerably thin for his height)  I'm not saying Trayvon didn't drink but it is unfounded at this point and would be surprising to me if that was a cause for his fatty liver. 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1388.full.pdf

I also know people on anti anxiety medication and when they are not taking their medication they can be intense and take action without thinking things all the way through.  Muffy is right, though, we don't know why GZ was prescribed the pills.

Yes, there were breakins in the neighborhood but GZ had three past examples of being considered a threat... a friend of his had a protective order against him, he was fired for being too aggressive from a prior employer, and he was charged with attacking a police officer.  I believe he was overzealous in his actions against Trayvon.  I believe he, George Zimmerman, was the aggressor and when Trayvon enacted the 'Stand Your Ground Law' to protect himself GZ then murdered him and is now trying to claim he was the victim. 





While I have read that study, the majority of those children were overweight and the prevalence of the disease in African American youth is almost non existent (according to the study you cited it is 1.5 percent). I do not know if TM was a drinker, but I do know that a good majority of young people I deal with do not start with MJ but start with booze. I do not know if TM was one of them. I do know that the facts in this case show he was a strong young man. I do know that GZ may have had no reason to follow TM except that crime in that area was increasing. This crime included eight burglaries, nine thefts, dozens of break-ins (at least one with a woman and infant upstairs) and one shooting. It is my understanding several of these crimes were committed by black males. Zimmerman had every right to walk the sidewalks, he even had the right to follow TM. TM made the choice, instead of going to his dad's apartment which is where he was heading, to confront GZ. When he confronted GZ with violence, GZ had the right to defend himself.

I know that GZ in not Lilly white but he was doing something to help his community. Was TM?  TM was kicked out of school for drugs. He was suspended multiple times. Possession of burglary tools and large amounts of women's jewelry are a couple of the incidents.  Imagine being the woman home with her child when someone breaks in. We do not know that TM did not have something to do with the break-in - neither did GZ.  We have been told he was going to the store and was coming back. He did have skittles and tea - but we do not know if that was a cover story or not.  All GZ knew is that he felt like the first line of protection against what could be a bad guy. He did not chase TM down and attack him - he did not shoot TM from a distance. The evidence seems to show that TM physically attacked GZ. That changed the game. I have felt that fear - I know that all I wanted was to get the bad guy that was threatening me to stop. If it had become physical or I felt AT THAT MOMENT that my life was in danger, I would not have hesitated to use deadly force.

I know that my opinion is not popular but it is what I feel. I work and shop in an area where people get attacked by others frequently. One of our employees was mugged and beaten at a walmart two days ago. If her husband had not been there to intervene who knows where her and her child would have been. One of my favorite quotes is that all that evil needs is for good people to do nothing. I do not know if GZ is a good guy, but he is not an evil person either.


What if Trayvon was the one who feared for his life and just wanted to get the bad guy who was threatening him?  What if GZ pulled his jacket aside and exposed his weapon in an effort to prevent Trayvon from running and Tray's fight or flight instinct kicked in and he chose to fight?  All kinds of assumptions are being made about Trayvon and a lot of excuses are being made for GZ.  I think you're actually in the majority here, which is fine because you're raising good arguments I just don't necessarily agree with them.

To our knowledge, Trayvon has no previous charges or accusations of assault nor has he had a restraining order against him.  GZ has.

The above study included 548 kids (IIRC) so eight of those 548 kids were black and had liver disease that was not a result of alcohol consumption.  Trayvon very well may have been one of those kids.

BBM - thanks for the respect - I shall show you the same.

I do agree that we do not know what happened and will never know for sure. TM could not have a restraining order against him since he was a minor so it is an unfair comparison.

What do we teach our kids when someone is following them? Go somewhere safe or turn around and accuse the person that is following them?  No we teach them to go to safety. Even as a CCW holder, that would be my first choice. My big reason for thinking that GZ did not intend to shoot TM is that he did not until the TM physically attacked him. I really believe that TM may have seen the gun, and his goal (as it would be with anyone scared of a person that had a gun) was to get the gun away from GZ. At that point GZ had no choice. My LEO friends say it all the time - want to get killed, let your opponent get your gun - at that point he has nothing to lose if he shoots you.

Anyway, I am off to read stories to the little one. Thanks again for having an open mind to listen to the opinions of a nut like me!   an angelic monkey
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« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2012, 10:07:27 PM »

Fear of riots should not prevent justice from being served in this case.  Let it go to court and let the chips fall where they may.  Also, I just don't hear many people calling Zimmerman a racist pig.  He's been accused of profiling but the term racist has been used by very few people from what I have read.

The question is, was profiling fair in this case?  Is it ever fair?  I would argue that it is acceptable under certain circumstances, this being one of them.  In the act of profiling, does that then make it okay to leave your vehicle while armed to confront someone because of your frustration that they will get away before the police arrive?

No it does not.  Had GZ allowed the police to do their job an innocent Trayvon would be alive and this would never have happened.  GZ was not in fear of his life or he would never have left his truck and it was that pivotal decision that led to a deceased Trayvon Martin and made GZ the aggressor. 

In regards to Trayvon's blood tests, knowing what I know about teenagers, the fact that he only had trace amounts of marijuana in his system (trace amounts indicates he rarely smokes weed) actually speaks to him being a pretty good kid.  Here in our low crime rural town I can tell you a lot of kids would have more than trace amounts in their system and probably beer, too, from the house party they may have attended.



There was quite a bit of talk at the beginning of this case about GZ being "white hispanic" and he was racist, until more information came out in regard to his background. 

I believe many are concerned (including me) about a backlash and the possibility of rioting.  There has been a bounty on GZ's head, threats against the judge in the case and there is a big concern about witnesses being threatened if their identity is revealed, and it really concerns me about seating a jury for this case. 

GZ had a permit to carry his weapon, and therefore I'm not surprised he had it on him when he got out of his car.  That doesn't mean he intended to get out and shoot Trayvon, but if you carry a firearm, there's always the chance you might use it.  I'm not certain GZ was frustrated.  I don't think we could know that.  Only he would know how he was feeling at the time, wouldn't he?  Maybe he was concerned?  We don't know.  Maybe he was wondering why there was a guy in a hoodie walking around that time of night and he stopped and asked.  That wouldn't be a crime as far as I know.  I have no idea what really went on from that point, because we don't have information.  As far as GZ being in fear of his life, maybe after he had been on the ground for a bit being pummled, it crossed his mind.   

In regard to Trayvon's blood test, he had THC in his system.  This doesn't make him a drug fiend imo.  But he did have a past in that regard, that led to school suspension and etc. This doesn't make him a bad kid, but then he's not exactly an angel either.  We could go on and on till the cows come home, but we have limited information, and what we do have has been tainted by the media, by rumors and by all of the emotions.  I don't know how this case is going to end, but one important thing to remember is to try to stick to facts as best we can.  JMHO  And it IS a tragedy indeed there is a young man dead.
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« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2012, 11:17:27 PM »

Fear of riots should not prevent justice from being served in this case.  Let it go to court and let the chips fall where they may.  Also, I just don't hear many people calling Zimmerman a racist pig.  He's been accused of profiling but the term racist has been used by very few people from what I have read.

The question is, was profiling fair in this case?  Is it ever fair?  I would argue that it is acceptable under certain circumstances, this being one of them.  In the act of profiling, does that then make it okay to leave your vehicle while armed to confront someone because of your frustration that they will get away before the police arrive?

No it does not.  Had GZ allowed the police to do their job an innocent Trayvon would be alive and this would never have happened.  GZ was not in fear of his life or he would never have left his truck and it was that pivotal decision that led to a deceased Trayvon Martin and made GZ the aggressor. 

In regards to Trayvon's blood tests, knowing what I know about teenagers, the fact that he only had trace amounts of marijuana in his system (trace amounts indicates he rarely smokes weed) actually speaks to him being a pretty good kid.  Here in our low crime rural town I can tell you a lot of kids would have more than trace amounts in their system and probably beer, too, from the house party they may have attended.



There was quite a bit of talk at the beginning of this case about GZ being "white hispanic" and he was racist, until more information came out in regard to his background. 

I believe many are concerned (including me) about a backlash and the possibility of rioting.  There has been a bounty on GZ's head, threats against the judge in the case and there is a big concern about witnesses being threatened if their identity is revealed, and it really concerns me about seating a jury for this case. 

GZ had a permit to carry his weapon, and therefore I'm not surprised he had it on him when he got out of his car.  That doesn't mean he intended to get out and shoot Trayvon, but if you carry a firearm, there's always the chance you might use it.  I'm not certain GZ was frustrated.  I don't think we could know that.  Only he would know how he was feeling at the time, wouldn't he?  Maybe he was concerned?  We don't know.  Maybe he was wondering why there was a guy in a hoodie walking around that time of night and he stopped and asked.  That wouldn't be a crime as far as I know.  I have no idea what really went on from that point, because we don't have information.  As far as GZ being in fear of his life, maybe after he had been on the ground for a bit being pummled, it crossed his mind.   

In regard to Trayvon's blood test, he had THC in his system.  This doesn't make him a drug fiend imo.  But he did have a past in that regard, that led to school suspension and etc. This doesn't make him a bad kid, but then he's not exactly an angel either.  We could go on and on till the cows come home, but we have limited information, and what we do have has been tainted by the media, by rumors and by all of the emotions.  I don't know how this case is going to end, but one important thing to remember is to try to stick to facts as best we can.  JMHO  And it IS a tragedy indeed there is a young man dead.

Could not agree more, Muffy.


Just one last thing.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Zimmerman:  ....Okay.  These assholes always get away....

Zimmerman: .... shit, he's running....

Dispatcher:  Are you following him?

Zimmerman:  yeah

Dispatcher:  Okay.  We don't need you to do that.

**please note I cut alot of the verbage between Zimmerman and the dispatcher related to directions on where GZ was located because I cannot copy and paste it however I believe this indicates frustration on Zimmerman's part and shows that he was in pursuit of Trayvon.  If someone can screen capture it that would be far more accurate than the snippets I'm providing.  Thanks in advance if someone is able to do that.  The 9-11 call is really pivotal to the circumstances that night.


I look forward to the trial, and from an anthropological standpoint, what happens as a result of it.  I guess I see it as a reflection of where we are as a society.  Riots or no?  Innocent or guilty?  Will it open dialogue on racism and the merits of profiling?  On colored folk accepting responsibility for high crime rates within the black community?  The Stand Your Ground law.  Not putting all our frustration for crime on the back of one black teenager.  Totally interesting.

Thanks so much for the open discussion ladies.  Gave me lots to think about.

Have a good night.
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« Reply #153 on: May 19, 2012, 12:17:50 AM »

Okay, here is my two cents which must likely will not be popular. From what I have read the Martin guy was a troubled kid with a lot of problems in the past. There were a number of juvenile offenses which will all come out in court. He was expelled from his school in Miami for drug and drug paraphernalia possession not to mention stolen jewelery in his possession. He had been expelled more than once according to media reports. A "good kid" does not get expelled for drugs and stolen jewelery. He was obliviously also a poor student since he was almost 18 and not even close to graduating from high school. One report listed him as a freshman. The family made a deal about him playing football but from what I can determine he did not play on the high school level. Maybe those football picture was like the original one the press showed - years old.

The kid's facebook page, his tweets and other web places I saw indicated to me either he was a want a be "gangster" or a real gangster. Looking through his friends profiles I am betting on the second. It appears from his tweets his friends considered him their "connection." 

I want to know how an underage kid got all those tattoos and all those gold "gangster" teeth. I want to know how a kid who lived in Miami with his mother was walking up next to the windows of the housing complex. He was not strolling down a sidewalk with "skittles" - he was giving the appearance of checking out places to break into. This was a very suspicious action and if I had seen an unknown kid who did not live there doing that in my subdivision I would question him too. I have more than once followed suspicious persons in my subdivision so I see no fault in that. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch person and they make it their job to know who belongs in the area they are responsible for watching.

This boy did not live there and the story to me is very suspicious as to why he was there. First it was told his father lived there. Then when that was investigated, it was a friend of the boy, then it was the father's girlfriend (who if you notice has become invisible) then when the name did not work with any owners, it was something else. This story has changed way too many times for my taste. I would like to know WHO he was really there to see. (if anyone)

When the dispatcher told Z to not pursue him, he started returning to his vehicle (as evidenced by the place of the occurrence and the eye witnesses.) then I am guessing this kid started running that mouth with the MF language he used on twitter and the other web sites then jumped Zimmerman. The autopsy indicated he was shot as Z described with him on top of Z hitting him. The witnesses told the exact same account of the incident. 

This in my opinion an open and shut case of self defense and except for the reverse racism (which did not work either because z was Hispanic and black, not white as they wanted him to be) and the parents wanting to make a lot of money off of it would never have had a second thought in most states. It is a backdoor way to change the gun laws in Florida and they are using an unfortunate death to pursue it.

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« Reply #154 on: May 19, 2012, 12:37:06 AM »

Even a state lawmaker, concerned about “black youths” who are “terrorizing” Baltimore’s upscale Inner Harbor, wants the governor to send in state troopers to make the area safe.

Call for crackdown on black-on-white terror http://bit.ly/Ki3ZOR


   

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« Reply #155 on: May 19, 2012, 01:32:37 AM »

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-zimmerman-hoa-newsletters-20120518,0,2949112.story

Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman: A portrait of the Retreat
May 18, 2012, 9:04 a.m.

 ::snipping2::
If you had been the victim of a recent crime, you would have been advised to call the police -- and then to call the neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman.

A number of issues of Zimmerman's neighborhood newsletter, "Retreat Reflections," were included in the 183 pages of discovery documents made public Thursday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder case. They were certainly not the most newsworthy items in the stack. More immediately compelling was the fact that the Sanford police essentially blamed Zimmerman for recklessly engaging in the Feb. 26 encounter with Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager Zimmerman had decided was a suspicious character in the neighborhood.
 ::snipping2::
In June 2011, the public safety concerns of the neighborhood seemed minor: A news item that month said that the HOA would be hiring Sanford police to enforce the speed limit and parking rules.

But in the September 2011 issue -- next to a clip-art cartoon character peering through a giant magnifying glass -- the newsletter announced: "We have recently experienced an increased incidence of crime within the community including three break-ins in the past month, which is why having residents committed to being members of the Neighborhood Watch and reporting suspicious activities is so important. We must send a message that we will not tolerate this in our community!"

It urges anyone with information on the break-ins to call the police. It also suggests calling Zimmerman for "updates, safety tips" and notifications of "any suspicious activity."

The neighborhood watch group, it reported, held a meeting with Sanford police officers on Sept. 22 to discuss crime-prevention strategies. The newsletter urged residents to consider becoming block captains. "Please keep your eyes open," the newsletter stated. "If you see something suspicious or out of place, report it!"
 ::snipping2::
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« Reply #156 on: May 19, 2012, 03:16:52 AM »

Unfortunately, it's a very common misconception, and this lady doesn't sound like she has much experience handling firearms.  Shooting schools teach if you are in fear for your life and need to defend yourself, you draw your firearm and you aim for mass.  They don't teach shooting at arms and legs.  You may only get one shot. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/story?id=16380864
Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die'
May 18, 2012

 ::snipping2::
The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."
 ::snipping2::

ITA~ when I got my first gun at 21 I was told by the sheriff the same thing, also never hesitate..if you pull your weapon be prepared to use it or it will be used against you, aim for the chest and 2 bullets. I also read somewhere that because he had hollow points he was looking to shoot someone, hello.....I only have hollow points except for target rounds and I don't know anyone that doesn't. More ignorance IMO
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« Reply #157 on: May 19, 2012, 06:54:56 AM »

A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-george-zimmerman-murder-charge-article-1.1080161#ixzz1vJMtmKjs
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« Reply #158 on: May 19, 2012, 06:58:39 AM »

Okay, here is my two cents which must likely will not be popular. From what I have read the Martin guy was a troubled kid with a lot of problems in the past. There were a number of juvenile offenses which will all come out in court. He was expelled from his school in Miami for drug and drug paraphernalia possession not to mention stolen jewelery in his possession. He had been expelled more than once according to media reports. A "good kid" does not get expelled for drugs and stolen jewelery. He was obliviously also a poor student since he was almost 18 and not even close to graduating from high school. One report listed him as a freshman. The family made a deal about him playing football but from what I can determine he did not play on the high school level. Maybe those football picture was like the original one the press showed - years old.

The kid's facebook page, his tweets and other web places I saw indicated to me either he was a want a be "gangster" or a real gangster. Looking through his friends profiles I am betting on the second. It appears from his tweets his friends considered him their "connection." 

I want to know how an underage kid got all those tattoos and all those gold "gangster" teeth. I want to know how a kid who lived in Miami with his mother was walking up next to the windows of the housing complex. He was not strolling down a sidewalk with "skittles" - he was giving the appearance of checking out places to break into. This was a very suspicious action and if I had seen an unknown kid who did not live there doing that in my subdivision I would question him too. I have more than once followed suspicious persons in my subdivision so I see no fault in that. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch person and they make it their job to know who belongs in the area they are responsible for watching.

This boy did not live there and the story to me is very suspicious as to why he was there. First it was told his father lived there. Then when that was investigated, it was a friend of the boy, then it was the father's girlfriend (who if you notice has become invisible) then when the name did not work with any owners, it was something else. This story has changed way too many times for my taste. I would like to know WHO he was really there to see. (if anyone)

When the dispatcher told Z to not pursue him, he started returning to his vehicle (as evidenced by the place of the occurrence and the eye witnesses.) then I am guessing this kid started running that mouth with the MF language he used on twitter and the other web sites then jumped Zimmerman. The autopsy indicated he was shot as Z described with him on top of Z hitting him. The witnesses told the exact same account of the incident. 

This in my opinion an open and shut case of self defense and except for the reverse racism (which did not work either because z was Hispanic and black, not white as they wanted him to be) and the parents wanting to make a lot of money off of it would never have had a second thought in most states. It is a backdoor way to change the gun laws in Florida and they are using an unfortunate death to pursue it.



My unpopular response~ Good post, Turbo
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« Reply #159 on: May 19, 2012, 07:20:19 AM »

Unfortunately, it's a very common misconception, and this lady doesn't sound like she has much experience handling firearms.  Shooting schools teach if you are in fear for your life and need to defend yourself, you draw your firearm and you aim for mass.  They don't teach shooting at arms and legs.  You may only get one shot. 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witness-believes-intended-kid-die/story?id=16380864
Trayvon Martin Witness Believes 'He Intended for This Kid to Die'
May 18, 2012

 ::snipping2::
The woman told police that Zimmerman, 28, examined Martin's body as he slowly paced back and forth when the police arrived. She watched as they checked the teen's body and turned him over, eventually starting CPR. But he was already dead for five or 10 minutes, she said.

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."
 ::snipping2::

You are absolutely correct, MuffyBee.

If you are pinned to the ground, being beaten up, in the fight for your life, wrestling over your gun, you are just going to shoot, you don't have time (or probably the thought) to look for a less fatal target.

Trayvon was not "a scrawny little kid".  Not only was he a lot taller than Zimmerman, his arms were a lot longer, giving Trayvon a considerable "reach" advantage.  (Look at boxers)

The "kid" was not "running for help".

Geez! And this woman is a witness?
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